CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I'm sorry but if you are under 40 or started listening to Rush since the 90's you are listening to this song in retrospect and out of context. A version of Science from Different Stages to the present is not as good of a representation as one from the era from which it was first written and performed, considering THEIR youth and enthusiasm. You don't understand the Rush that those of us who have listened to them in the 70's do. Sorry. You weren't there but we were. The Rush we see now is older and wiser but not quite the the same cutting edge walkers they were then. Imagine Permanent Waves with no knowledge of Moving Pictures because it didn't exist yet. You will never get it the way that we do. Free Will changed my life. I heard it a week after it was released when I was 13. You do not have this experience where many of us do. Jacob's Ladder is a song that is a cohesive idea from start to finish. Natural Science is really 3 songs cobbled together from the remnants of what was originally titled "Sir Gawain" based upon Arthurian legend. The fact that it is amazing as it is is testament to Rush's abilities. Both are superior and nothing like anything recorded today by anyone. Thank you for that context, and especially the revelation (to me, at least,) about the origins of NS. I don't think it takes away from the song one bit. And as you said, it is a testament to their abilities, which many other groups we all love posses. The fact that Jacob's Ladder was, indeed, a fully conceived piece from srat to finish makes complete sense. Each segment is a natural progression from the previous segment. The song's lyrics have a consistent theme that ties in with the title. I didn't get into Permanent Waves until relatively late...1987. Sure, I had heard TSoR and Freewill a ton on the radio. And I had owned Moving Pictures since probably 1984. But believe it or not, I could totally listen to PeW and pretend I had never head MP. It's probably because I was a huge Yes fan at the time, and could listen to The Yes Album while pretending I had never heard 90125. So I get that point. And it is an excellent point.I discovered Yes later myself. I had known Roundabout of course since I was younger but really didn't get into their catalog until I was in my 20's having seen them on the Big Generator tour (on mushrooms too). But even sitting there in that state I knew full well the difference between the "Classic" Yes era and the Trevor Rabin era. My knowledge of Yes was superfluous. I was (and still am) a tremendous Bruford fan so on a whim I got Close To The Edge for a penny through Columbia House and it was a revelation to me. I got mad at myself for not investigating them more from a younger age. Sure, I knew Siberian Khatru and And You And I but the title track blows me away still. No doubt Close to the Edge influenced Rush a great deal. Especially songs like Jacob's Ladder, Natural Science and Hemispheres. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I'd like it if Rush did something similar to the ESL version where they open up with a short cover of I Only Have Eyes For You by The Flamingos and after the first chorus go right into the opening bass notes of Jacob's Ladder. I thought it was Unchained Melody or something. Speaking of the Exit version, doesn't Lee announce the song by saying something like "this was done a long time ago by the T.C. Broonsy" - am I remembering that correctly? I wonder why there's a little shout-out to Brown there? Definitely was. You notice the song starts with a bunch of major chord arpeggios. One more reason why the song is so cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I'm sorry but if you are under 40 or started listening to Rush since the 90's you are listening to this song in retrospect and out of context. A version of Science from Different Stages to the present is not as good of a representation as one from the era from which it was first written and performed, considering THEIR youth and enthusiasm. You don't understand the Rush that those of us who have listened to them in the 70's do. Sorry. You weren't there but we were. The Rush we see now is older and wiser but not quite the the same cutting edge walkers they were then. Imagine Permanent Waves with no knowledge of Moving Pictures because it didn't exist yet. You will never get it the way that we do. Free Will changed my life. I heard it a week after it was released when I was 13. You do not have this experience where many of us do. Jacob's Ladder is a song that is a cohesive idea from start to finish. Natural Science is really 3 songs cobbled together from the remnants of what was originally titled "Sir Gawain" based upon Arthurian legend. The fact that it is amazing as it is is testament to Rush's abilities. Both are superior and nothing like anything recorded today by anyone. Thank you for that context, and especially the revelation (to me, at least,) about the origins of NS. I don't think it takes away from the song one bit. And as you said, it is a testament to their abilities, which many other groups we all love posses. The fact that Jacob's Ladder was, indeed, a fully conceived piece from srat to finish makes complete sense. Each segment is a natural progression from the previous segment. The song's lyrics have a consistent theme that ties in with the title. I didn't get into Permanent Waves until relatively late...1987. Sure, I had heard TSoR and Freewill a ton on the radio. And I had owned Moving Pictures since probably 1984. But believe it or not, I could totally listen to PeW and pretend I had never head MP. It's probably because I was a huge Yes fan at the time, and could listen to The Yes Album while pretending I had never heard 90125. So I get that point. And it is an excellent point.I discovered Yes later myself. I had known Roundabout of course since I was younger but really didn't get into their catalog until I was in my 20's having seen them on the Big Generator tour (on mushrooms too). But even sitting there in that state I knew full well the difference between the "Classic" Yes era and the Trevor Rabin era. My knowledge of Yes was superfluous. I was (and still am) a tremendous Bruford fan so on a whim I got Close To The Edge for a penny through Columbia House and it was a revelation to me. I got mad at myself for not investigating them more from a younger age. Sure, I knew Siberian Khatru and And You And I but the title track blows me away still. No doubt Close to the Edge influenced Rush a great deal. Especially songs like Jacob's Ladder, Natural Science and Hemispheres. I think they were all (especially Lee) heavily influenced by Relayer, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) The intro to the live JL is what my dad calls "Ice Cream Changes" which are Standard Doo Wop chord structure of I VI IV V. :) Edited February 18, 2015 by CygnusX-1Bk2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I'm sorry but if you are under 40 or started listening to Rush since the 90's you are listening to this song in retrospect and out of context. A version of Science from Different Stages to the present is not as good of a representation as one from the era from which it was first written and performed, considering THEIR youth and enthusiasm. You don't understand the Rush that those of us who have listened to them in the 70's do. Sorry. You weren't there but we were. The Rush we see now is older and wiser but not quite the the same cutting edge walkers they were then. Imagine Permanent Waves with no knowledge of Moving Pictures because it didn't exist yet. You will never get it the way that we do. Free Will changed my life. I heard it a week after it was released when I was 13. You do not have this experience where many of us do. Jacob's Ladder is a song that is a cohesive idea from start to finish. Natural Science is really 3 songs cobbled together from the remnants of what was originally titled "Sir Gawain" based upon Arthurian legend. The fact that it is amazing as it is is testament to Rush's abilities. Both are superior and nothing like anything recorded today by anyone. Thank you for that context, and especially the revelation (to me, at least,) about the origins of NS. I don't think it takes away from the song one bit. And as you said, it is a testament to their abilities, which many other groups we all love posses. The fact that Jacob's Ladder was, indeed, a fully conceived piece from srat to finish makes complete sense. Each segment is a natural progression from the previous segment. The song's lyrics have a consistent theme that ties in with the title. I didn't get into Permanent Waves until relatively late...1987. Sure, I had heard TSoR and Freewill a ton on the radio. And I had owned Moving Pictures since probably 1984. But believe it or not, I could totally listen to PeW and pretend I had never head MP. It's probably because I was a huge Yes fan at the time, and could listen to The Yes Album while pretending I had never heard 90125. So I get that point. And it is an excellent point.I discovered Yes later myself. I had known Roundabout of course since I was younger but really didn't get into their catalog until I was in my 20's having seen them on the Big Generator tour (on mushrooms too). But even sitting there in that state I knew full well the difference between the "Classic" Yes era and the Trevor Rabin era. My knowledge of Yes was superfluous. I was (and still am) a tremendous Bruford fan so on a whim I got Close To The Edge for a penny through Columbia House and it was a revelation to me. I got mad at myself for not investigating them more from a younger age. Sure, I knew Siberian Khatru and And You And I but the title track blows me away still. No doubt Close to the Edge influenced Rush a great deal. Especially songs like Jacob's Ladder, Natural Science and Hemispheres. I think they were all (especially Lee) heavily influenced by Relayer, as well.Yeah, but that's Alan White and Patrick Moraz. The interview on the R30 disc of Geddy talking to British reporter dude from Pink Pop he mentions Bruford by name (I think it's that interview anyway) as being someone he was particularly fond of. Nothing against Relayer, I hear a lot of Meddle in Hemispheres. One of These Days especially. I have Yesshows which has a great live version of Gates of Delirium and just recently got Relayer myself. I hear some minor influence from that but Rush seems a little more focused. Thought is was a later effort from them but it was '74. You get a pass on the PW in 87 thing. :P That's still the 80s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 All very true. Lee mentions Bruford in terms of his late 70's band of the same name. I can't remember if this was the PeW tour, or MP. Probably PeW. Anyway, in addition to praising Bruford (the band) Lee says they would all go and see Yes In concert. And I remember reading in Contents Under Pressure that while they were recording Caress of Steel, they went to see Yes on the Relayer tour, and were totally disheartened after the show, feeling they could never match Yes. Little did they know how close they were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yeah, well I'm sure they had/have all kinds of mixed feelings about CoS. I mean Paul Stanley didn't get it...:P 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Analog Cub Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yeah, well I'm sure they had/have all kinds of mixed feelings about CoS. I mean Paul Stanley didn't get it... :P Since when is Paul Stanley a credible opinion on musicianship? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I've been giving both versions a good number of listens today. It's growing on me. I can definitely say it's a good song but will probably never be a favorite and I will always prefer the other 5 on PeW. I really enjoy the music painting it does with the storm. It definitely is a lot of fun to count to, especially in the second half of the song. Unfortunately it's a bit hard to play guitar in my current situation for the next 4 months. If they finally bring it out on tour after teasing over it since Snakes and Arrows I would enjoy seeing it. They could do a LOT of things with the stage and video with that one. Maybe make it all dark with occasional lasers for "lightning strikes", similar to how they're used in Dreamline or Red Sector A. one two three four five six one two three four five six seven Repeat until the apocalypse! Yeah, you're right. I just did it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't care what anyone else thinks of the song. I think it's beautiful. Like I said, they never did anything else like it in their entire career. Alex doesn't even sound like Alex on it. I guess I should say that the Alex on it sounds like the Alex of Hemispheres. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm listening to the one off Exit...Stage Left now. You can hear Geddy's bass better on this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micgtr71 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm listening to the one off Exit...Stage Left now. You can hear Geddy's bass better on this one. I love this version 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) I'm listening to the one off Exit...Stage Left now. You can hear Geddy's bass better on this one. I love this version My favorite part is the last two and a half minutes of the song. I mean, I like the whole song, but I REALLY like the last two and a half minutes. :) Edited February 19, 2015 by Lorraine 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusX-1Bk2 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yeah, well I'm sure they had/have all kinds of mixed feelings about CoS. I mean Paul Stanley didn't get it... :P Since when is Paul Stanley a credible opinion on musicianship? They were on tour together with KISS when they released it. Alex mentioned in one of the recent on camera interviews that they played it for Paul who clearly didn't get it. Many still don't.Paul Stanley also graduated from the New York High School of Music and Art. Despite not having a fully developed right ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't care what anyone else thinks of the song. I think it's beautiful. Like I said, they never did anything else like it in their entire career. Alex doesn't even sound like Alex on it. I guess I should say that the Alex on it sounds like the Alex of Hemispheres. When Alex lost his hair, he lost his balls. The guitar playing type that is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbobby10 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Now that I think about it, I don't know which version I like better. Studio or ESL Both are amazing (especially the opening intro on ESL version) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't care what anyone else thinks of the song. I think it's beautiful. Like I said, they never did anything else like it in their entire career. Alex doesn't even sound like Alex on it. I guess I should say that the Alex on it sounds like the Alex of Hemispheres. When Alex lost his hair, he lost his balls. The guitar playing type that is.I don't know what happened, but I guess it is unrealistic to think that he could keep it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't care what anyone else thinks of the song. I think it's beautiful. Like I said, they never did anything else like it in their entire career. Alex doesn't even sound like Alex on it. I guess I should say that the Alex on it sounds like the Alex of Hemispheres. When Alex lost his hair, he lost his balls. The guitar playing type that is.I don't know what happened, but I guess it is unrealistic to think that he could keep it going. Why so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't care what anyone else thinks of the song. I think it's beautiful. Like I said, they never did anything else like it in their entire career. Alex doesn't even sound like Alex on it. I guess I should say that the Alex on it sounds like the Alex of Hemispheres. When Alex lost his hair, he lost his balls. The guitar playing type that is.I don't know what happened, but I guess it is unrealistic to think that he could keep it going. Why so?Didn't you say he lost his balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't care what anyone else thinks of the song. I think it's beautiful. Like I said, they never did anything else like it in their entire career. Alex doesn't even sound like Alex on it. I guess I should say that the Alex on it sounds like the Alex of Hemispheres. When Alex lost his hair, he lost his balls. The guitar playing type that is.I don't know what happened, but I guess it is unrealistic to think that he could keep it going. Why so?Didn't you say he lost his balls? I was referring to why you thought it was unrealistic for him to keep it going. Lots of guitarists can keep the awesomeness going, I'm not sure why he couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't care what anyone else thinks of the song. I think it's beautiful. Like I said, they never did anything else like it in their entire career. Alex doesn't even sound like Alex on it. I guess I should say that the Alex on it sounds like the Alex of Hemispheres. When Alex lost his hair, he lost his balls. The guitar playing type that is.I don't know what happened, but I guess it is unrealistic to think that he could keep it going. Why so?Didn't you say he lost his balls? I was referring to why you thought it was unrealistic for him to keep it going. Lots of guitarists can keep the awesomeness going, I'm not sure why he couldn't.I don't know why he couldn't. I'm sure he thinks he did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't care what anyone else thinks of the song. I think it's beautiful. Like I said, they never did anything else like it in their entire career. Alex doesn't even sound like Alex on it. I guess I should say that the Alex on it sounds like the Alex of Hemispheres. When Alex lost his hair, he lost his balls. The guitar playing type that is.I don't know what happened, but I guess it is unrealistic to think that he could keep it going. Why so?Didn't you say he lost his balls? I was referring to why you thought it was unrealistic for him to keep it going. Lots of guitarists can keep the awesomeness going, I'm not sure why he couldn't.I don't know why he couldn't. I'm sure he thinks he did. I think his spirit was broken when he had to try and fit in with the keyboards. It made him play so much rhythm it's like he forgot how to be a front man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock n roll over Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm not sure if Jacobs Ladder is my fave RUSH tune, but it's close. It just flows and is very cohesive. They were firing on all cylinders when the wrote and recorded it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Signals Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Jacobs Ladder is such a fun song to play, but can be very tricky as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraroc Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I think most of Rush's audience would appreciate it live. Now playing Losing It might cause people to go piss but not me, I wear an adult diaper to Rush concerts. I t'aint missing a note of music. I stick tampons in my penis hole in concerts for this very reason. Not really. You didn't have to go there. Really you didn't. Sorry for having a twisted sense of humor :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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