Do piano players hate guitarists?

[Xanadoood]

Ive had this battle with my brother over the years, and maybe its just him, but he hates guitar players..claims they one play in the key of E...He is exagarating, but basically saying that they lack the musical knowledge of keyboard players..and he also complains that they only want to play " power chords"...

 

So , is there a rivalry between guitarists and keyboard players?...My brother plays in hack wedding bands by the way..

[Ancient Ways]

I think the average keyboard player has more musical knowledge than the average guitar player and I'm a guitar player that can barely play anything on keys. Guitar players have two disadvantages: they can play the same note in the same octave in multiple places on their instrument (for the most part) Nd their instrument is constantly needing to be tuned meaning they may not always be hearing the same pitches even though their instrument is tuned in a relative sense. Also, it seems more keyboard players need to be able to read music.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Many keyboard players had to learn music theory to play their instrument for the most part so there can be a false sense of superiority over other musicians in general. Seems to me the more keyboards a guy has the more attitude that goes with it. But you can say the same about guitarists. Or drummers ;).

 

I have played with a handful of keyboardists over the years and it really is an individual thing, like everything else. One guy was a great mentor to me in our 30s but upon showing me some video footage of himself in our 20s before I knew him he asked me point blank if he thought we would have been friends back then. To which we both decided probably not. :) Then we found out that we actually played a gig together in different bands. I would have much rather played with him than the keyboard player in the band I was in that night. :) I just recently played with the first keyboard player I ever plated with 20 something years ago and he is an absolute delight to play with still because he has no ego where his playing is concerned. He is SO good too.

 

So it all comes back to insecurities. I don't think a player of any instrument who knows he can play (over a certain age anyway) will give another instrumentalist any guff. To be a good player one needs to listen. You can't listen if you try to force an agenda on others.

 

That being said; guitarists and singers can sometimes receive undue positive reinforcement where bassists, keyboardists and drummers can be more easily overlooked by the general public. So again it comes back to insecurities.

 

At least in my personal experience. :)

[Xanadoood]

Many keyboard players had to learn music theory to play their instrument for the most part so there can be a false sense of superiority over other musicians in general. Seems to me the more keyboards a guy has the more attitude that goes with it. But you can say the same about guitarists. Or drummers ;).

 

I have played with a handful of keyboardists over the years and it really is an individual thing, like everything else. One guy was a great mentor to me in our 30s but upon showing me some video footage of himself in our 20s before I knew him he asked me point blank if he thought we would have been friends back then. To which we both decided probably not. :) Then we found out that we actually played a gig together in different bands. I would have much rather played with him than the keyboard player in the band I was in that night. :) I just recently played with the first keyboard player I ever plated with 20 something years ago and he is an absolute delight to play with still because he has no ego where his playing is concerned. He is SO good too.

 

So it all comes back to insecurities. I don't think a player of any instrument who knows he can play (over a certain age anyway) will give another instrumentalist any guff. To be a good player one needs to listen. You can't listen if you try to force an agenda on others.

 

That being said; guitarists and singers can sometimes receive undue positive reinforcement where bassists, keyboardists and drummers can be more easily overlooked by the general public. So again it comes back to insecurities.

 

At least in my personal experience. :)

 

Yeah, insecurity because of the attention guitarists get in bands is huge for him..he always complained that in high school ( he graduated in 79 ) everyone wanted to hear Kiss and Zeppelin tunes, and treated keyboardists like dorks...he still to this day HATES Kiss...

[Fridge]

I'm fortunate at the moment to be recording with a very good keyboard player, and generally there is no problem...I acknowledge that his knowledge of musical theory is light years ahead of mine and it all works out ok.

 

The only time I notice it is when there is a very slight frustration on his part because we can't communicate an odd phrase or timing via musical notation, and he did once get a bit shirty about people who can't read/write sheet music saying they "wrote" a song lol

[Lieutenant Dan]

I can add a little tidbit to this...

 

When I took started formal bass guitar lessons back in 2000, my bass teacher was this wildly good jazz bassist, so he knows his theory up down every which way.

 

Our very first lesson, we sit with our basses at his keyboard and he shows me a major scale on the keys, what a half step and whole step is on the keys, and then shows me the same information as it translates to a fretboard. Freakin' awesome, and he just went from there. We never really went back to the keyboard after that first lesson.

 

Point being that the keyboard can be an excellent tool for understanding basic theory and sorting things out that might be stumping you on your axe.

 

 

 

Postscript: At my best, I was a solid intermediate bassist, and knew just enough to be a danger on keys, guitar, and drums (Careful With That Fill, Eugene).

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

I am a natural player and have learned theory and notation along the way; from private teachers, college courses and my own personal studies because I wanted to know how to articulate what I can do. Not the other way around. I say this as someone who is lucky enough to have been able to play without knowing any of that but music is NOT what's written on a page. It's what comes out of an instrument.

 

This is just one of my personal idioms. I have issues with guys, who because they know a little theory think they are above others who don't. What I KNOW about music cannot be put down on paper. Also these guys tend to use theory as a clutch (or a hammer as the case above) and can't play what they feel to save their lives. Because they don't know how to separate the sterile written page from the emotion that comes out of some one like Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson, Paul McCartney or other natural song writers who couldn't tell you an accidental from an occidental. I have a huge interest in the concept of time so I took a long look at time signatures on my own because I could play Natural Science but wanted to know why those times are considered odd, despite the natural feel of those movements. It was natural curiosity. Music theory and notation came from needing a way to translate what musicians played so they could communicate and play together. But real players don't need it. I know so many people who do not even need to ask what key everyone is playing in because they can jump in and hear/feel it. Then there are guys you have spell everything out for. Not that they can't play, just that they don't have the same kind of instinct.

 

That's what determines whether or not I like something. How natural it feels vs what I call trying too hard. Guys who try too hard know theory up and down, went to school and know the rules. I can hear that. Dream Theater were a bunch of Berklee guys and you can hear it in their "music" because there is little instinctual or natural about it. It's all intelecual excercises whereas Rush make natural music that comes out of them instinctively but are intelligent in their process. Huge difference.

 

Nobody, I mean nobody learns to talk by reading a book. We learn by mimicking then we are taught how to spell words and how sentences are structured in school. By the time kids go to school they have been talking for a few years. Music should be the same way. It was for me. :)

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Sounds more like a lack of understanding to me. Does he not like music? I mean this seriously. I try to appreciate all music, even things I don't like. I have a friend who has an illogical lack of discrimination when it comes to music. He will embrace old sea shanties, the most obtuse trying-too-hard local bands and seemingly random bands with the detestable designation of "prog" yet dismisses "rap" on any level where I try to find value in all music. Though I will determine whether it's "crap" or not. My own definition of course. I can appreciate hip hop way more than anyone calling themselves prog for lack of a better term. Even though much of early rap was purposefully amusical. I worked with a guy that listened to obscure metallic-like noises. No way to musically classify it really, thought it had some classification really. One piece sounded like a bouncing metallic ball or another like a metallic sweeping tones. No rhythm, no melody at all but it was definitely organized sound. I can appreciate that way more than Dream Theater. When doctor Robert Moog first created his synthesizer he wanted to use anything but a piano keyboard having come from making theramins. But no one could figure out a better way to play it in the 60s. Classical musicians hated them until one guy did an entire symphony with one. Then they only really disliked them.

 

People who learn theory before they can play tend not to like things that are not established or covered in their small box of instructions. It's hard for them to get past this. Unfortunately this is more prevalent than not.

[ThatLightInYourEyes]

I've taken lessons in both. I think that there are often personality differences in which kind of person takes to one or the other. Guitarists are seen more as the extroverted partying type who dances onstage with the instrument while piano players are seen more as the introverted intellectual type who hides behind the instrument. That's not necessarily the case, of course, but that does often play a part.

[LerxstLuthier]

The other day (New Year's Eve actually) all the guys in my band were warming up in our dressing room before the gig and just to pass the time, our drummer started grilling us on music theory (and he knew the answers). I can't say I've ever experienced that before!

Back on topic though....both my keyboard player and I know our music theory so there's very little rivalry. It's nice when you can speak the same language ya know?

[Babycat]

What's a hack wedding band..? :)

[Maverick]

What's a hack wedding band..? :)

 

See the movie "The Wedding Singer."

[Maverick]

Ive had this battle with my brother over the years, and maybe its just him, but he hates guitar players..claims they one play in the key of E...He is exagarating, but basically saying that they lack the musical knowledge of keyboard players..and he also complains that they only want to play " power chords"...

 

So , is there a rivalry between guitarists and keyboard players?...My brother plays in hack wedding bands by the way..

 

You're brother is a douche and he is just jealous because the hot chicks want the guitar slingers.

 

[Cyclonus X-1]

Well, guitar players are usually the smart, charismatic, good-looking ones. You can see evidence of this just by looking around TRF. I present myself as Exhibit A.

 

The keyboard player is usually the nerd who got let into the band out of necessity. The only way to make a keyboard player even remotely cool is by requiring that he don a Rick Wakeman cape.

[The Analog Grownup]

Everybody hates the guitarist. Even guitarists!

 

 

Joke aside. Forgive me for being full of prejudice but he shouldn't expect much playing in a hack wedding band :P

[Xanadoood]

Ive had this battle with my brother over the years, and maybe its just him, but he hates guitar players..claims they one play in the key of E...He is exagarating, but basically saying that they lack the musical knowledge of keyboard players..and he also complains that they only want to play " power chords"...

 

So , is there a rivalry between guitarists and keyboard players?...My brother plays in hack wedding bands by the way..

 

You're brother is a douche and he is just jealous because the hot chicks want the guitar slingers.

 

 

 

 

 

Haha... It's so true. It's obvious that he's jealous of all the adulation guitar players get.

[The Analog Grownup]

Ive had this battle with my brother over the years, and maybe its just him, but he hates guitar players..claims they one play in the key of E...He is exagarating, but basically saying that they lack the musical knowledge of keyboard players..and he also complains that they only want to play " power chords"...

 

So , is there a rivalry between guitarists and keyboard players?...My brother plays in hack wedding bands by the way..

 

You're brother is a douche and he is just jealous because the hot chicks want the guitar slingers.

 

 

 

 

 

Haha... It's so true. It's obvious that he's jealous of all the adulation guitar players get.

 

Seems like there is a memo my drummer missed. He apparently seem to think that girls want the drummer, or at least that they want him :crazy: