Why the hate on Test For Echo?

[Dscrapre]

I think it's one of those albums that's worth it for the good tracks. And as for the grungy sound, those songs wouldn't be the same without the techniques borrowed from that era.

 

That grungy sound is a big part of the reason I don't like it, I'll admit. I hated the entire grunge era

 

I've passionately hated that era/sound as well. The same CP grunge-sound still negatively taints Rush's new music to this day. Its like they're stuck in a loop, and much of the reason I refuse to digest anything new from them.

 

At least they stopped ripping off Neal Schon.

[Na na na]

Great album, I get a really positive vibe from this album...unlike Counterparts.

[Narps]

I think it's one of those albums that's worth it for the good tracks. And as for the grungy sound, those songs wouldn't be the same without the techniques borrowed from that era.

 

That grungy sound is a big part of the reason I don't like it, I'll admit. I hated the entire grunge era

 

I've passionately hated that era/sound as well. The same CP grunge-sound still negatively taints Rush's new music to this day. Its like they're stuck in a loop, and much of the reason I refuse to digest anything new from them.

 

At least they stopped ripping off Neal Schon.

I think Alex stopped after he heard Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin'.......... :)

[OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan]

Most of the lyrics are pretty bad, some music is too....just a bad time for RUSH.

[Czarcasm]

As I have stated several times previously, I don't like T4E a whole lot. I am puzzled why some rank it highly.

 

Since the general opinion is that Counterparts is the best of the post-synth albums (Presto, RtB, CP, T4E), I created a post that did a side-by-side comparison, since the songs on both CP and T4E line up almost perfectly.

http://www.therushfo...-test-for-echo/

 

Most, through general feeling or after comparing songs, agreed that CP is superior.

But many did not. I suggest looking through that thread to see why.

 

IMHO, I think (as you said) the album starts off just fine. Probably middle of the pack compared to its three brothers. But boy, Totem, Dog Years and Virtuality just stink. Tired melodies and embarrassing lyrics.

 

Limbo is very pale compared to the two "Thing" instrumentals found on RTB and CP, the bass sound is funny, and the "halloween" sound effects come off as cheesy, not fun. The other two songs at the end of T4E are OK, but I lump them in with the other forgettable "back half" songs from that time period - like Hand Over Fist, Neurotica, Speed of Love, etc.

 

Rush sounded like a band that desperately needed a break to revive their creative spark. Unfortunately, they took one under the worst circumstances.

 

I respectfully disagree. Limbo is an instrumental you need to listen to numerous times to appreciate and headphones really help. The playing sounds simple at first, like a wall of chords that Alex throws at you. Once you listen more closely however, it's very accomplished playing with an angular, rough sound to it. The absence of lyrics let this quality shine as Virtuality and Dog Years musical heaviness are are made void due to their lyrical content. The bass comes through clearly in my opinion and the interspersed keyboard notes are tasteful and help to redirect he soloing.

 

How anyone could like Where's my Thing more than Limbo is beyond me. The production on WmT? are as wimpy as they come and the playing is nowhere near that on Test for Echo. The sound effects and the "Mash good!" line are pretty cool in my opinion and add to the humour the band occasionally tries to bring to their music. When coupled with the music I find it to be a real "F*ck Yeah!! moment.

 

As for Totem, it falls into the same trap as virtuality; great music and playing but the lyrics are so simple and stupid that the entire song gets pulled down, The musical changes are pleasing and Alex's solo is a genuinely beatiful moment. If Neil hadn't been learning with Freddie Grueber (Sp?) at the time he might've had more time to work on the lyrics. Unfortunate, really

[Czarcasm]

I enjoy it, again. But as others previously mentioned, there isnt anything distinctive about it that just gives me a craving to throw it in. To me its better than RTB. I actually enjoy the color of right, and even dog years. Its typically driving music for me, Im not gonna lie down with good headphones and zero in and listen to all the nuances, but its pleasant

Pretty much anything is better than Roll The Bones. I agree completely though, it's more like background music than one you have to take in completely devoid of distractions.

[Greedy Oak]

This Album has grown on me quite a bit. In fact, Totem and Dog Years are my two favorite tracks. Go easy on me, I'm new here.

[Powderfinger]

Rush lost me as a fan upon the release of Test for Echo. I didn't return to the fandom fold until the Beyond the Lighted Stage documentary, which only drew me in as a result of a nostalgic love for the group. I regret that, mostly because I missed all the tours up to Clockwork Angels.

 

On Test for Echo they just sounded tired—spinning their wheels and mailing it in. It didn't help that I was getting into more esoteric artists and other genres. And I didn't really appreciate Rush attempting grunge when groups like Soundgarden were so much better suited for that style. Simply put, it seemed as though Rush was trying to be something they were not. It felt a bit disingenuous. In fact, I was already beginning to feel that way with Counterparts, even though I enjoyed that album at the time.

 

It's strange. Rush has always either followed trends or rode at the forefront of them as they unfolded, be they power-trio rock, prog, or new-wave/synth. For some reason the "grunge" period, and then more recently, "new metal" stylings rub me the wrong way. Clockwork Angels was a step back toward the righteous Rush path (how to define that, I do not know), and I hope they continue in that direction.

[ZachenFoot]

I'm happy to see this thread.

 

I'm 22 so aside from S&A and Clockwork Angels, everything was fresh to my ears in more recent memory and albums were taken more at face value. I couldn't look at Test For Echo as an anticipated release after Counterparts because I simply didn't experience that three-year wait.

 

I love T4E. Their golden age to me was '77-'85, and none of their albums touch anything that came out in that time frame. I think aside from those and CA, T4E may be the Rush album I like the most. There's something about its simplicity I greatly enjoy as it is very different from almost everything they've done. To most that's a bad thing, but not me.

 

The lyrics aren't great, but I'm forgiving since Neil's focus seemed to be a different approach to the drums, which is another cool aspect of the disc. I grew to really appreciate that aspect after watching A Work in Progress. I think Geddy's melodies fit the songs very well (except Dog Years, can't stomach it), and I love Alex's solos.

 

It's funny; I actually don't care for Driven at all, which is the one everyone claims to be the one "good" song. Love the title track, especially live. Half the World is outstanding, I love the mandolin solo and the poppy nature of it. The Color of Right has a neat solo and great driving melody. Time And Motion is my favorite on the whole thing; love those keyboards and the intense jamming on a simple rhtyhm. Totem has one of my favorite lyrical melodies of all time ("Angels and demons dancing in my head," etc.) I love Virtuality and the lyrics don't bother me much, it's so fun musically. Resist is excellent, Limbo is just fun, and Carve Away the Stone is another really cool melody that closes the album nicely.

 

Everyone has their opinion but I hold many of the songs in very high regard. Time And Motion is one of my favorites from them of all-time, and Half the World and Totem are high on my list as well.

 

And while everyone here is saying CP is the superior album, I actually think it's one of their worst. It's so hit-or-miss after Animate (which is just awesome), with far more misses.

Edited December 2, 2013 by ZachenFoot

[Czarcasm]

I'm happy to see this thread.

 

I'm 22 so aside from S&A and Clockwork Angels, everything was fresh to my ears in more recent memory and albums were taken more at face value. I couldn't look at Test For Echo as an anticipated release after Counterparts because I simply didn't experience that three-year wait.

 

I love T4E. Their golden age to me was '77-'85, and none of their albums touch anything that came out in that time frame. I think aside from those and CA, T4E may be the Rush album I like the most. There's something about its simplicity I greatly enjoy as it is very different from almost everything they've done. To most that's a bad thing, but not me.

 

The lyrics aren't great, but I'm forgiving since Neil's focus seemed to be a different approach to the drums, which is another cool aspect of the disc. I grew to really appreciate that aspect after watching A Work in Progress. I think Geddy's melodies fit the songs very well (except Dog Years, can't stomach it), and I love Alex's solos.

 

It's funny; I actually don't care for Driven at all, which is the one everyone claims to be the one "good" song. Love the title track, especially live. Half the World is outstanding, I love the mandolin solo and the poppy nature of it. The Color of Right has a neat solo and great driving melody. Time And Motion is my favorite on the whole thing; love those keyboards and the intense jamming on a simple rhtyhm. Totem has one of my favorite lyrical melodies of all time ("Angels and demons dancing in my head," etc.) I love Virtuality and the lyrics don't bother me much, it's so fun musically. Resist is excellent, Limbo is just fun, and Carve Away the Stone is another really cool melody that closes the album nicely.

 

Everyone has their opinion but I hold many of the songs in very high regard. Time And Motion is one of my favorites from them of all-time, and Half the World and Totem are high on my list as well.

 

And while everyone here is saying CP is the superior album, I actually think it's one of their worst. It's so hit-or-miss after Animate (which is just awesome), with far more misses.

:goodone:

This guy gets it.

[goose]

Are there really people who think T4E is their best album? That's ok - different tastes and all that and god knows there's a hell of a lot of music I despise (pleasecouldsomeonejustmachineguntheentirelineupofMaroon5). I just find it hard to believe that a Rush fan would rank it above, say, AFTK. I'd bet those who do are at least 15 years younger than I.

 

I think it's a middle-of-the-pack Rush album. I enjoy a number of its tunes more than most people do (particularly The Color of Right, Carve Away the Stone, Virtuality, and Totem). The dopey lyrics are really only a deterrent when it comes to the ridiculously repetitive Half the World. I wouldn't rank most of its tunes above the likes of Xanadu and A Farewell to Kings, but I do prefer the album on the whole to AFtK (a full third of which I really don't like). And I'm a mere ten years younger than you are. :)

Anbody out there in Rush land say 40 or older think Test For Echo is better than A Farewell To Kings or Hemispheres? Just curious?

You know what? If Xanadu and Closer to the Heart weren't on Kings, I might like T4E better. The balance of AFTK doesn't do much for me, really.

[Dscrapre]

To pull up my ratings from "The Rush Ratings Project" thread:

 

Test For Echo 8

Driven 7

Half The World 5

The Colour Of Right 5

Time And Motion 7

Totem 7

Dog Years 2

Virtuality 5

Resist 6

Limbo 3

Carve Away The Stone 3

 

Additionally I had this to say:

 

"I found that Test for Echo was the hardest of these albums to rate, just because I can't really remember a lot of the tracks. Totem is in particular a tough one to rate because it contains a solid 9 part ("lunatics and monsters") but that part is surrounded by such mediocrity."

 

That pretty much sums up my entire view of the album. Very little stands out. It's such a "meh" album. Sure, Limbo probably doesn't deserve a 3 (Maybe a 5) and Resist is probably better than a 3 also, but still, they are nothing more than average.

 

It's my least favorite album by Rush. Your mileage may vary.

 

EDIT: Listening to Limbo again. It's better than I remember it being. Very atmospheric, surprisingly interesting. Definitely not a 3, but probably no more than a 6.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Dscrapre

[losingit2k]

Other than T4E, Driven and Limbo the album the album is just ordinary and uninspiring. Yes Half the World, Time and Motion and Resist are decent songs but the rest of the album is pretty ordinary to awful. Besidesthe lyrics to many of the songs, specifically Virtuality and Dog Years are just plain terrible. I think both of those songs would have been much better songs with different lyrics. (Net Boy, Net Girl) What was Neil thinking?

[sitboaf]

 

How anyone could like Where's my Thing more than Limbo is beyond me. The production on WmT? are as wimpy as they come and the playing is nowhere near that on Test for Echo.

 

The sound effects and the "Mash good!" line are pretty cool in my opinion and add to the humour the band occasionally tries to bring to their music. When coupled with the music I find it to be a real "F*ck Yeah!! moment.

 

 

I think most people on this forum would rank WTM and LTTA higher than Limbo, but that won't change your opinion.

The next time I listen to Limbo, I promise to do so with your enthusiastic mindset, if you promise to listen to Where's My Thing without the crap production by playing the Clockwork Angels Live version.

[The K Man]

I don't hate it at all, but it simply doesn't have the replay value of just about every other Rush album, probably because it is a record filled with mostly pretty good songs, a few very good songs (Resist and Totem) and one awful song (Time and Motion).

Hey what beef do you have with Time And Motion, I mean I admit it is no where near their best song, but there are lot's of cool bits to it. Thinking of the steamy synth and the upbeat chord progression parts in particular. I do think it needs a bit better of a glue to it, but I don't see it as awful

 

-Ugly vocal melodies

-Terrible chorus

-Awful synth tone

-Failure to do anything remotely memorable with the main riff

[Czarcasm]

I don't hate it at all, but it simply doesn't have the replay value of just about every other Rush album, probably because it is a record filled with mostly pretty good songs, a few very good songs (Resist and Totem) and one awful song (Time and Motion).

Hey what beef do you have with Time And Motion, I mean I admit it is no where near their best song, but there are lot's of cool bits to it. Thinking of the steamy synth and the upbeat chord progression parts in particular. I do think it needs a bit better of a glue to it, but I don't see it as awful

 

-Ugly vocal melodies

-Terrible chorus

-Awful synth tone

-Failure to do anything remotely memorable with the main riff

 

While I will agree that the riff doesn't do anything at all really I respectfully disagree about your other 3 points.

-Vocals sound of their time kinda but aren't noticeably bad.

-The chorus is so unorthodox to me that I enjoy it.

-The synth segments are brief and partially hidden behind guitar so I can forgive that.

 

The solo about a third of the way through sounds so raw it's like stone from the Canadian shield being smelted. If you guys aren't from Canada, that's REALLY hard to do!

 

"The mighty ocean dances with the moon~

The silent forest echoes with the loon"

 

Maybe it's cause I'm Canadian or something but these lyrics have a kind of eerie poetic vibe to them.

[Czarcasm]

How anyone could like Where's my Thing more than Limbo is beyond me. The production on WmT? are as wimpy as they come and the playing is nowhere near that on Test for Echo.

 

The sound effects and the "Mash good!" line are pretty cool in my opinion and add to the humour the band occasionally tries to bring to their music. When coupled with the music I find it to be a real "F*ck Yeah!! moment.

 

 

I think most people on this forum would rank WTM and LTTA higher than Limbo, but that won't change your opinion.

The next time I listen to Limbo, I promise to do so with your enthusiastic mindset, if you promise to listen to Where's My Thing without the crap production by playing the Clockwork Angels Live version.

I'll go buy it right now just for you. I wish there was an official live version of limbo. All the the live versions on Youtube are bootlegged cam-rips :(

[bathory]

maybe I'm a little late on this but to the people who keep acting like counterparts is the heaviest thing in the world - are you people crazy? "sludgy" "muddy"? it's pretty clean rock stuff to me, it's just heavier in comparison to the albums that came right before it

[Czarcasm]

maybe I'm a little late on this but to the people who keep acting like counterparts is the heaviest thing in the world - are you people crazy? "sludgy" "muddy"? it's pretty clean rock stuff to me, it's just heavier in comparison to the albums that came right before it

Correct. It even sounds too clean at times in my opinion. Calling it grunge is insulting to grunge. Hard rock production values became vogue again after Nevermind was released only 2 weeks after Roll the Bones. This is why Counterparts sounds like it does. A sock full of quarters is heavy when compared to Roll the Bones or Presto. That being said, I still think CP is a strong album.

[bathory]

well, for the older folks here, I guess "stick it out" probably sounds like death metal if the heaviest music you've heard is, I dunno, dokken or something

[bathory]

and CP and T4E are not rush's "grunge" era...it was just their return to "hard" rock

[ZachenFoot]

Thank God someone said CP doesn't sound like grunge.

 

Can anyone imagine Alice in Chains doing "Everyday Glory?" Sheesh. CP is way too clean.

[Czarcasm]

and CP and T4E are not rush's "grunge" era...it was just their return to "hard" rock

This is also accurate. I guess people who were 18 in 1981 didn't know what to call 90's music so they lumped it in there with Nirvana and Pearl Jam. :eyeroll:

As the other poster said, Calling Everyday Glory grunge is just wrong.

[bathory]

and CP and T4E are not rush's "grunge" era...it was just their return to "hard" rock

This is also accurate. I guess people who were 18 in 1981 didn't know what to call 90's music so they lumped it in there with Nirvana and Pearl Jam. :eyeroll:

As the other poster said, Calling Everyday Glory grunge is just wrong.

well, you gotta understand - if the heaviest band you've heard is the moody blues or something, CP must sound like slayer

[LedRush]

Let's face it.... It's pretty lousy compared to their pre 86' work's.....

 

Remember, Power Windows and GuP are in that group.