Did Alex rip off the ending riff in Xanadu

[KennyLee]

I am amazed this thread is about an arpeggio and chorus being stolen. Rush is denounced and lives are ending because he used a similar chorus and didn't strum.

[Dscrapre]

Again, I love Rush, but this Schon thing may be the final blow for me :( Many of you will rejoice in this, I know.

 

The "Schon thing" sounds like an excuse. Break away...

 

Not an excuse, but nearly the final straw. The last 12 years of lackluster material, poor directional decisions (w/over-reliance on 3rd parties) and endless DVDs/cashgrabs. Then the shock of realizing Alex' trademark sound is anothers'. Maybe its time for me to evolve and retire from following the band.

 

Nearly the final straw? Just let it end. Does it take you 12 years to break up with a woman? 12 years to decide you hate asparagus? Good god, be a man and just end it already!

Again, I love Rush, but this Schon thing may be the final blow for me :( Many of you will rejoice in this, I know.

 

The "Schon thing" sounds like an excuse. Break away...

 

Not an excuse, but nearly the final straw. The last 12 years of lackluster material, poor directional decisions (w/over-reliance on 3rd parties) and endless DVDs/cashgrabs. Then the shock of realizing Alex' trademark sound is anothers'. Maybe its time for me to evolve and retire from following the band.

 

Nearly the final straw? Just let it end. Does it take you 12 years to break up with a woman? 12 years to decide you hate asparagus? Good god, be a man and just end it already!

 

I was always hopeful they would turn it around eventually, but they've essentially been in the same vein, musically, for a whole decade, imo.

Rush is lackluster, cashgrabbing and unturnaroundable. f**k hope and end it! Resign from TRF. That's your first step to your own personal salvation! Do it!!

 

Done

 

I'm going to print out this post and hang it on my wall.

[losingit2k]

Again, I love Rush, but this Schon thing may be the final blow for me :( Many of you will rejoice in this, I know.

 

The "Schon thing" sounds like an excuse. Break away...

 

Not an excuse, but nearly the final straw. The last 12 years of lackluster material, poor directional decisions (w/over-reliance on 3rd parties) and endless DVDs/cashgrabs. Then the shock of realizing Alex' trademark sound is anothers'. Maybe its time for me to evolve and retire from following the band.

 

Nearly the final straw? Just let it end. Does it take you 12 years to break up with a woman? 12 years to decide you hate asparagus? Good god, be a man and just end it already!

Again, I love Rush, but this Schon thing may be the final blow for me :( Many of you will rejoice in this, I know.

 

The "Schon thing" sounds like an excuse. Break away...

 

Not an excuse, but nearly the final straw. The last 12 years of lackluster material, poor directional decisions (w/over-reliance on 3rd parties) and endless DVDs/cashgrabs. Then the shock of realizing Alex' trademark sound is anothers'. Maybe its time for me to evolve and retire from following the band.

 

Nearly the final straw? Just let it end. Does it take you 12 years to break up with a woman? 12 years to decide you hate asparagus? Good god, be a man and just end it already!

 

I was always hopeful they would turn it around eventually, but they've essentially been in the same vein, musically, for a whole decade, imo.

Rush is lackluster, cashgrabbing and unturnaroundable. f**k hope and end it! Resign from TRF. That's your first step to your own personal salvation! Do it!!

 

Done

My work here is done! Mission Accomplished!

[temporary madness]

Wow. Remind me not to f$ck with you guys.

[The Analog Grownup]

Something tells me you're celebrating too soon ;)

[callmejim]

All the years I've spent here I've never, ever had so much fun. And The Jam used that Spirit of Radio riff for Down at the Tubestation at Midnight. Great track. And someone told me that that riff was written by Jimi Hendrix anyway. And Triumph used the A,G,F sequence of chords from The Return Of The King (The Necromancer) on a track on Progressions Of Power.

[callmejim]

And the main riff here always reminds me of the beginning part of Hemispheres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8poMTDA59Q4

See if you can spot it. Maybe just me, cracking playing on this anyway.

[Tony R]

And Dream Theater liberally, err channel Rush at every opportunity. On their latest album we get Limelight and The Necromancer to name but two...

[treeduck]

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee385/Midnight1337/u-mad-bro-again.jpg

[callmejim]

Tush/No Class by Motorhead and a track by Girlschool and I think maybe Saxon have something going on in the same direction too.

[callmejim]

And Dream Theater liberally, err channel Rush at every opportunity. On their latest album we get Limelight and The Necromancer to name but two...

Will have to check this out then, can't stand the band myself but this sounds like a laugh.

[KennyLee]

The new DT album is actually great. They're not my favorite band but are very talented. They tip their hat, shall we say, to Rush a lot and on the most recent album even more. Not stolen but incredibly influenced.

[Rushman14]

Rush's first two albums were heavily-influenced by Led Zep. CoS by Genesis, Tull, Zep and Yes. 2112 was a landmark in Progressive Metal" but still not a great distance from what Zep would sound like if they were dropped into a barrel full of classic Prog bands.

Rush's first two albums were heavily-influenced by Led Zep. CoS by Genesis, Tull, Zep and Yes. 2112 was a landmark in Progressive Metal" but still not a great distance from what Zep would sound like if they were dropped into a barrel full of classic Prog bands.

 

Zep has been known to borrow a riff or 2.

[LedRush]

I just looked up the release dates of both albums, Next came out in February of '77...Kings came out in September..I just relistened to Nickel again...they basically keep repeating that same riff that starts at about 1:04 , with Neal soloing over it...its actually a rather unisnpiring instrumental, IMO...does anyone have the tour dates from Rush that year?..when were they in the studio?...You mean to tell me that somewhere between Feb and Sept, Alex heard Nickel and Dime, and boom!...Yeah, i gotta have that Riff!...it isnt THAT similar..

 

What if Alex ran with the riff? It's the nature of the beast. Did 't Pete Townshend admit to ripping off Ray Davies?

 

I agree. Perhaps he did. But really, nothing else about Nickel has ANY similarity to Xanadu...and that open chord ringing arpeggio isnt , IMO, the MAIN focus of Xanadu. I think it was you who mentioned the Coldplay/Satriani lawsuit,.and yeah, both songs have the exact same melody...its obvious..these two songs may have a similar FEEL in certain parts, but the compositions are completely different outside of that one riff...

 

Agreed. They are totally different songs. I can't tell how often I hear a new song and I hear a tiny snippet of something familiar.

 

Little dig at Alex from Neal at NAMM this year..discussing his guitars for Les Paul...from 4:00 to : 4:45 or so..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9XahzlkSk

 

Hmmm. Let's see. On the grand scale of rock/music zeitgeist.

 

Rush/Alex = powerfully influential band; hallmarks of musical dedication; wise elders, per se, of prog rock, etc.

 

Journey/Neal = covered by Glee

 

Rush certainly are not "wise elders of Prog Rock". Their debut album, which contains zero Prog Rock, came 4 years after King Crimson's game-changing debut.

 

 

Second sentence has nothing to do with the first, which is an unfounded opinion.

[Bangster of Goats]

Again, I love Rush, but this Schon thing may be the final blow for me :( Many of you will rejoice in this, I know.

 

The "Schon thing" sounds like an excuse. Break away...

 

Not an excuse, but nearly the final straw. The last 12 years of lackluster material, poor directional decisions (w/over-reliance on 3rd parties) and endless DVDs/cashgrabs. Then the shock of realizing Alex' trademark sound is anothers'. Maybe its time for me to evolve and retire from following the band.

 

Nearly the final straw? Just let it end. Does it take you 12 years to break up with a woman? 12 years to decide you hate asparagus? Good god, be a man and just end it already!

Again, I love Rush, but this Schon thing may be the final blow for me :( Many of you will rejoice in this, I know.

 

The "Schon thing" sounds like an excuse. Break away...

 

Not an excuse, but nearly the final straw. The last 12 years of lackluster material, poor directional decisions (w/over-reliance on 3rd parties) and endless DVDs/cashgrabs. Then the shock of realizing Alex' trademark sound is anothers'. Maybe its time for me to evolve and retire from following the band.

 

Nearly the final straw? Just let it end. Does it take you 12 years to break up with a woman? 12 years to decide you hate asparagus? Good god, be a man and just end it already!

 

I was always hopeful they would turn it around eventually, but they've essentially been in the same vein, musically, for a whole decade, imo.

Rush is lackluster, cashgrabbing and unturnaroundable. f**k hope and end it! Resign from TRF. That's your first step to your own personal salvation! Do it!!

 

Done

 

Did anyone else notice that this, possibly final, post is his 2112th post? :D

[Bangster of Goats]

I don't know the story here. I never thought of it as a mistake. What, did they have to pay the Scott Estate or something?

 

Apparently, they didn't *have* to as the copyright had expired at that point, but Rush paid the estate anyway because they thought it was the right thing to do.

[treeduck]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/38419559.jpg

[KennyLee]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/38419559.jpg

 

Yeah, and I'm gonna have to ask you not to use any chords. You see they've all been played in other songs so that would be ripping them off. Great, thanks.

[Ged Lent's sis]

Did anyone else notice that this, possibly final, post is his 2112th post? :D

 

I thought for sure he wasn't serious, as I am not really familiar with him from other posts. Maybe the fact that he hit his 2112th with the comment "Done." is the ultimate clue that he was having everybody on?

 

I don't know the story here. I never thought of it as a mistake. What, did they have to pay the Scott Estate or something?

Apparently, they didn't *have* to as the copyright had expired at that point, but Rush paid the estate anyway because they thought it was the right thing to do.

 

See, that's an example—the only one, in my opinion—where Lerxst took used a significant segment of a part unadulterated; and he owned up to it. That's pretty cool.

 

 

As far as the Xanadu bit goes, far from consternating, it's fascinating to contemplate:

On April 28, 1976, Rush play ONE show with Journey, who days later start work in the studio on a new album that they finish recording five months later. Three months after that—on January 1, 1977 interestingly enough—they release their Next album. Rush go into the studio sixth months after that and finish recording AFtK that month, a time within which they basically cop two notes from Nickel and Dime, and incorporate similar sounding arpeggio on the guitar to accompany them in one section. Not only is it fascinating, it's hilarious.

 

Neal Schon opens Nickel and Dime, by the way, repeating a signature phrase from Rogers and Hammerstein's My Favorite Things.

[EagleMoon]

Who knows if Neal and Alex sat down and jammed one night and they showed each other some cool stuff on guitar? This thread is silly especially since you can hardly hear any similarity in a very small part of a song.

[Ged Lent's sis]

This thread is too friggin' long! My god. I was gonna multiquote my faves and riff on everybody but this is ridiculous... anyway here goes:::

 

Alex is a genius. That word gets thrown around a lot, but here it applies. There is a reason a lot of Rush fans and guitar players think that he is underrated: he is in a band with two guys that have the "greatest" rep because of their creative, but mostly technical proficiency. But if—and I only say "if"... IF there is only one musical genius in Rush, it is Alex Lifeson.

 

I say this by way of introll to the greater point, which is that he is well aware of his co-opting of bits & bobs and incorporating them into his oevre. The fact is, the very nature of composition, classical, jazz, pop, and otherwise has a rich tradition of phrasal reference. It's what artists do. And if they are aware of it, it is to their credit.

 

To wit: Alex' intro to In the Mood is an uncanny rework of the intro to the piece of the same name made most famous by Benny Goodman and his Orchestra. But that song had already been arranged by Joe Garland and Andy Razaf, which itself was based on a pre-existing melody. The main theme, featuring repeated arpeggios rhythmically displaced, previously appeared under the title of Tar Paper Stomp credited to trumpeter and bandleader Wingy Manone. Horace Henderson used the same tune in Hot and Anxious, recorded by his brother's band, The Fletcher Henderson Orchestra in 1931.

 

And if the climax to his solo on The Camera Eye isn't an intentional nod to the same by Mark Knopfler in Sultans of Swing, I'll smoke a pound of smudgy finger-grease on the number buttons of an old-timey jukebox.

 

Now, the La Villa Strangiato thing... Rush clearly nicked Raymond Scott's Powerhouse for that, but I'm guessing here that Al and Ged were sitting around getting high and watching Bugs Bunny cartoons and not knowing better, decided to use that phrase. ;) Anyway, that was all settled amicably... Rush realized their mistake and it was all taken care of.

 

I don't know the story here. I never thought of it as a mistake. What, did they have to pay the Scott Estate or something?

 

You gotta BS degree right? That's awesome bro. Artistic Sequestration. Good band name.

 

Cease and desist!! My band name is Autistic Equestrian and I'll sue (cuz I just know that all my fans would confuse Artistic Sequestration's albums for mine).

 

On the other side i heard about eight years ago now, a later day King Crimson album from a friend of mine at work who is a Crimson fanatic a guitar riff that sounded identical to i believe it was to Freeze from Vapor Trails. Played it to my buddy and he had to admit 'holy shit it is!'.. Couldn't tell ya the King Crimson song or album but i'm pretty sure it came out shortly after Rush Vapor Trails..

 

It could only be from The Power to Believe, then. Though, to be honest, I think it is more likely Robert Fripp's copping the same style of riff as old as Larks' Tongues in Aspic II, which would pre-date any RUSH recordings. In other words: guitarists/musicians rip themselves off repeatedly. Moreoever, the riffs in question are "Prog" DNA, which are in turn part and parcel of 20th century symphony orchestra bombast.

 

Clearly Journey got in their delorean and plagiarized xanadu.

 

Okay, that's the money ^quote ^right ^there. And this is where I go off the vapor rails . . .

 

You may not know how close to the truth you are. As many of you know, all famous people are members of a secret organization within another secret organization within two more of run-of-the-mill fraternal orders. Both Journey and RUSH were indoctrinated into the Balloonmenaughty in the early seventies when it was clear to the powers that be that both bands were gonna be around for a while.

 

As the truth has it, on January 1st 1983, Jonathan Cain and Steve Perry had just met up with Neal Schon who had recently returned from a research mission to the late '80s. "John, Steve! You gotta come with me!"

 

The guys—who had been trying to come up with a cool video idea for their recently recorded Separate Ways replied, "What? Is it our kids? Are they in trouble in the future?"

 

"It's much worse than that! It's RUSH. They made a video which is so embarrassing that it makes rock videos look transcendent by comparison!"

 

"Why do you care about RUSH?" replied Steve Perry, "Didn't their guitar player rip you off?"

 

"Well, Sort of. Actually, if the bass player hadn't played those two notes, it never would've happened. But as it turns out, it was more of an homage, really. Anyway, I went further into the future and read on the Internet that I was kind of embarrassing myself by bitching about it still, decades later. Or maybe I was just being passive-aggressive, or maybe I was just joking around, I dunno; only a select number of forum nerds knows the details..."

 

Just then Jonathan Cain interrupted, "What's the Internet?" affecting his trademark eyebrow furrow. "Never mind that!" replied Neal. "We gotta get going!!"

 

So the band packed up and went back to the future to see if they could prevent RUSH from shooting the Time Stand Still video, but Neal accidentally set the destination in the Delorean to arrive at the video premier at Mercury Records. Of course, they recognized the video for the disaster it was straight away, but since they had used up the plutonium-advance they had received from Columbia, they only had enough to get back to 1983 and see if they could come up with a solution to help keep Ged, Alex, and Neil from career long humiliation.

 

Ultimately, Neal deserves credit for the solution to the dilemma: "Let's make a video so bad, that it'd be like dying for all music video's sins."

 

Because there are strict limitations on how the Balloonmenaughty are allowed to use their powers for each other, they had to make a video that would synchro-mystically resonate with the Canadian trio's tragic turn featured in their promo. Plus there are all sorts of magical numerological references between the two.

 

But visually, if you overlay both videos you'll see that Aimee Mann and the model from the Journey narrative's movements correspond, respectively, to each other's anima and animus.

 

If you doubt the veracity of this tale, consider the following: the Separate Ways single was released on January 5th, 1983. Add those numbers: 1 + 9 + 8 + 3 + 5(th) + 01 (Jan) = 27. That's a magikal enough number as it is, but add 2 and 7 and you get 9. Divide that by 3 and you get... that's right, you guessed it: the number of members in RUSH! Isn't that ssGeddy, kiddies?

 

On a related note: the amount of time I spent on this comment is my way of dying for all other nerd's who feel guilty for spending way to much time on the Internet. Go and sin no more.

 

Time Stand Still indeed. Somebody should do a literal music vid of that.

http://youtu.be/nZrjg48jHLw

 

Post of the decade!

 

I did hit the "like" button, but "like" just didn't seem to cover it. I LOVE this post! ;) :clap:

Now that is really just too kind.

[Slack jaw gaze]

As far as the Xanadu bit goes, far from consternating, it's fascinating to contemplate:

On April 28, 1976, Rush play ONE show with Journey, who days later start work in the studio on a new album that they finish recording five months later. Three months after that—on January 1, 1977 interestingly enough—they release their Next album. Rush go into the studio sixth months after that and finish recording AFtK that month, a time within which they basically cop two notes from Nickel and Dime, and incorporate similar sounding arpeggio on the guitar to accompany them in one section. Not only is it fascinating, it's hilarious.

I'm certain that I have read a quote by Alex that they recorded Xanadu in one take because they had been playing it on tour and knew it stone cold. It was written well before the album was recorded.

[tas7]

22nd May 1977 the earliest live performance on Youtube

[Ged Lent's sis]

As far as the Xanadu bit goes, far from consternating, it's fascinating to contemplate:

On April 28, 1976, Rush play ONE show with Journey, who days later start work in the studio on a new album that they finish recording five months later. Three months after that—on January 1, 1977 interestingly enough—they release their Next album. Rush go into the studio sixth months after that and finish recording AFtK that month, a time within which they basically cop two notes from Nickel and Dime, and incorporate similar sounding arpeggio on the guitar to accompany them in one section. Not only is it fascinating, it's hilarious.

 

I'm certain that I have read a quote by Alex that they recorded Xanadu in one take because they had been playing it on tour and knew it stone cold. It was written well before the album was recorded.

 

Yeah, that's a good reason they could just bang it out in the studio in one month, no doubt. The biggest diff between old and new RUSH, imo, is that their method of composition is dramatically altered when they aren't going "studio-tour-studio-tour-studio-tour"--which I don't blame them for not wanting to do.

 

Think, also, that Journey was probably writing/working out that Bits & Bobs song just prior to recording, as well. So here we have two touring bands, working out new material at the time that they crossed paths. What I'd like to know, is did Alex make a mental note of that little bit in Bits & Bobs on that night, and incorporate it in their live pre-album Xanadu (wouldn't it be awesome if RUSH watched Journey play from the wings and then put that section into Xanadu on the same night?). Or, did they rather save it for a later time—or were Alex and Ged possibly even listening to the Next album during the subsequent stretch that they were writing Xanadu, and just found that spot where it fit perfectly and were like, "Hey, you know what this sounds like?"

 

Or—and though this happens but I think it least likely—maybe those two notes are part of the language of our quantum unconscious and therefore also an inevitable eternal recurrence.

 

At any rate, whatever it is, even if it is—as Gem In Eye Rye Xing 7D, Nein! cries out in protestation to the heavens beyond—that Lerxst stole "his sound" from Neal Schon, well, then he gave it back after Hemispheres and continued to reinvent his own again and again.

[The Analog Grownup]

As far as the Xanadu bit goes, far from consternating, it's fascinating to contemplate:

On April 28, 1976, Rush play ONE show with Journey, who days later start work in the studio on a new album that they finish recording five months later. Three months after that—on January 1, 1977 interestingly enough—they release their Next album. Rush go into the studio sixth months after that and finish recording AFtK that month, a time within which they basically cop two notes from Nickel and Dime, and incorporate similar sounding arpeggio on the guitar to accompany them in one section. Not only is it fascinating, it's hilarious.

 

I'm certain that I have read a quote by Alex that they recorded Xanadu in one take because they had been playing it on tour and knew it stone cold. It was written well before the album was recorded.

 

Or—and though this happens but I think it least likely—maybe those two notes are part of the language of our quantum unconscious and therefore also an inevitable eternal recurrence.

 

 

Jackpot! :ebert: