Will Rush ever produce another clean-sounding, "heterogeneous" album?

[GeminiRising79]

..heterogeneous in the sense that each musical instrument is clearly distinct and separate from the central "glob" of sound that u hear from them, nowadays (like a nebula). I miss the clean, hetero- "precision"-type albums like PermWavs, MPs, P/G. Seems now everything is a bit overproduced with overreliance on technology, which has given the wall of sound that we've been subjected to over the past decade or so.

 

Why couldn't Rush revert back to older (sacre' bleu!) instruments/speakers in studio, then use their newer instruments in concert? Does anyone remember the beautiful tightness and clarity of Neil's kits in the 80s? Now its like, well, tupperware! (credit to whomever penned this term, btw, lol).

What about Alex's soaring and razor-edged strats (and poor little dusty chorus box)? Why couldn't Gedsy sneak a stealth Rickenbacker into the studio and then swap it out in concert?

Am I being unrealistic thinking they would ever divert from their full-spectrum aural productions? Are u in favor of my aforementioned thoughts? What do u think?

 

 

Btw, Tom Sawyer just began playing on the radio as I wrote the last sentence. Quite apropos!

Edited October 13, 2013 by GeminiRising79

[The Analog Grownup]

Honestly, I don't think so. First of all, it would depend on the cycles of music, and it will take too long before that era is back in rock music. I like both the old and the new, and a middle-ground between the two would be great I think. One of the "dangers" of the progress of recording music is knowing when to stop. Especially in terms of mastering music with the loudness war and all that.

 

I'm taking an optimistic stance on how music is recorded nowadays. I think Metallica finally made it obvious with their Death Magnetic (Dynamics?) that now is the time to look at the brick wall and turn around. :)

[Narps]

Great topic. I wish they would get back to that. Maybe I am in the minority on this one, but I miss the basics. I mostly always listen to the older stuff anyway. It sounds so crisp and clean to me. I am no musician or expert, but I want to hear each of the different instrument parts clear and well defined. One recent example for me I would cite. If there are any 70's AC/DC fans out there, go back and listen to Let There Be Rock one time. I did yesterday on my hike. Headphones on and turned up loud. The lead, rhythm, bass and drums are truly well defined and it still sounds great to me. Almost as if it just came out yesterday but without all the sounds and overproduction filling the background. Just my two cents for what it's worth (insert old fart emicon here)

[GeminiRising79]

Honestly, I don't think so. First of all, it would depend on the cycles of music, and it will take too long before that era is back in rock music. I like both the old and the new, and a middle-ground between the two would be great I think. One of the "dangers" of the progress of recording music is knowing when to stop. Especially in terms of mastering music with the loudness war and all that.

 

Rush has seemingly always jumped onto trends, historically, but has been stuck on this grunge-flavored tangent for what seems like forever. Lets hope they take the lead on this one..

[losingit2k]

It all comes down to the writing. In the 80's RUSH songs were more line oriented. (Bass and guitar playing the same line in octaves apart) Limelight, Tom Sawyer and Freewill were good example of this. When Alex would play chords they were for effect and power if not they were arpaggiated as in The Spirit of Radio. This in itself would create a much cleaner sound. The 90's grunge movement changed all that. There was more important placed on chords played in rhythmically and RUSH followed suite. Leads went fell the way side. Vapor Trails is a great example of this wall of noise. It only sound better now that they remixed it and separated the instruments by lowering Alex guitar strumming. Additionally Geddy playing chords more often with his flamenco style of bass playing added to this wall of noise. Basically its chords on top of chords. Its not a good sound at all. The only time they have accomplished this correctly was in Turn the Page and Driven and that's cause Alex wasn't playing chords on top of them. Also layering multiple guitar parts has added to this mess. I know that they need to layer some guitar parts but on VT it was clearly over done. Thankfully, they took a step away from this on Snake And Arrows and a giant leap away from it during Clockwork Angels. Hopefully they will return to more line oriented writing style during the next album. I have Hope we won't hit anymore walls. :musicnote: :musicnote: :musicnote: Edited October 13, 2013 by losingit2k

[ThatLightInYourEyes]

I certainly hope so. The best thing about the old stuff is how it highlights the separate and distinct talents of each band member. I'd hate to think that the three of them have lost their individuality these days.

[GeminiRising79]

I certainly hope so. The best thing about the old stuff is how it highlights the separate and distinct talents of each band member. I'd hate to think that the three of them have lost their individuality these days.

 

I would dare say that member wear-and-tear and simple laziness is responsible for the nebula of sound that we hear in current times. Chances are its too much work for each of them be isolated out and forced to perform at another notch higher. I could be off, but not by much.

Edited October 13, 2013 by GeminiRising79

[Narps]

As I have said before I am very much a layman when it comes to making music etc. I just don't understand why there has to be a sound of some kind every millisecond of the song? Old Rush I don't hear that. Like I said earlier the oldest AC/DC stuff I have been working out to lately do not sound like that at all. With all the talk about it on this forum it has forced me to pay attention more closely. Very distinct sound of each instrument. I can tune out the lead and hear the rhythm clearly etc. I don't know how to explain it, but anyway I like the clean sound better and not so much white noise if that makes any sense at all.

[losingit2k]

I certainly hope so. The best thing about the old stuff is how it highlights the separate and distinct talents of each band member. I'd hate to think that the three of them have lost their individuality these days.

 

I think Clockwork Angels brought much of this back which attributes to much of its success. :codger:

[losingit2k]

I certainly hope so. The best thing about the old stuff is how it highlights the separate and distinct talents of each band member. I'd hate to think that the three of them have lost their individuality these days.

 

I would dare say that member wear-and-tear and simple laziness is responsible for the nebula of sound that we hear in current times. Chances are its too much work for each of them be isolated out and forced to perform at another notch higher. I could be off, but not by much.

 

Really? Maybe you should take a close listen to Clockwork Angels. It full of individuality. Which is more than what you're full of!

 

:codger:

[Astroboy2112]

I just remember why I don't go to Rush messageboards often. Old dudes living in the past hating on modern music and wanting everything to sound like Moving Pictures. Rush fans have been complaining about sound since Signals and some since Permanent Waves. Pathetic. Proceeds to enjoy the sonic diversity in his Rush catalog and forget he came here today.

[GeminiRising79]

I just remember why I don't go to Rush messageboards often. Old dudes living in the past hating on modern music and wanting everything to sound like Moving Pictures. Rush fans have been complaining about sound since Signals and some since Permanent Waves. Pathetic. Proceeds to enjoy the sonic diversity in his Rush catalog and forget he came here today.

 

The fact is that the older music was outstanding compared to over the past ten yrs, but you're much too green to know any better.

Edited October 14, 2013 by GeminiRising79

[Narps]

I just remember why I don't go to Rush messageboards often. Old dudes living in the past hating on modern music and wanting everything to sound like Moving Pictures. Rush fans have been complaining about sound since Signals and some since Permanent Waves. Pathetic. Proceeds to enjoy the sonic diversity in his Rush catalog and forget he came here today.

I would prefer experienced dudes :codger: . And ladies too. Can't forget the fairer sex if you know what's good for you. And FYI, that argument would go back earlier than Moving Pictures anyway. Edited October 14, 2013 by Narpet

[Bhawk2112]

Why don't any of us do things the same way we did 30 years ago?

[Supersyl]

When's the last time Alex came up with a timeless, emotional solo like, say, Limelight??? What would it have become in history had it been layered on top of 20 rhythm guitar overdubs?? It's ironic that all of the Rush fans who think that The Garden is the most awesome Rush song ever point to Alex's solo as being so emotional... From what I've read that solo only came from the demo, and was kept in the song because Alex couldn't come up with anything better when it was time to record the song... Well guess what? Maybe for once, he didn't have a chance to "overthink" himself, and finally recorded a guitar part that was inspired and emotional. Clockwork Angels DOES seem like a step away from the crazy BULLDOZER of sound.. Let's hope it continues! :cheers:

[patjnev]

I also would like to hear a album that sounded like that again . But I'm not holding my breath . I've decided to start listening to Jazz and Classical music to cure my ills. In the future I can see myself not listening to popular rock music at all if it keeps on this trend. And that includes :rush: ! Alex' sound in particular is a bone of contention of late. I may take a lot of heat for this but I don't like it .

[Narps]

I also would like to hear a album that sounded like that again . But I'm not holding my breath . I've decided to start listening to Jazz and Classical music to cure my ills. In the future I can see myself not listening to popular rock music at all if it keeps on this trend. And that includes :rush: ! Alex' sound in particular is a bone of contention of late. I may take a lot of heat for this but I don't like it .

Not from me

[sitboaf]

I also would like to hear a album that sounded like that again . But I'm not holding my breath . I've decided to start listening to Jazz and Classical music to cure my ills. In the future I can see myself not listening to popular rock music at all if it keeps on this trend. And that includes :rush: ! Alex' sound in particular is a bone of contention of late. I may take a lot of heat for this but I don't like it .

Alex put his foot down in the late '80s when Geddy's keyboards got to be too much.

Maybe Geddy is telling Alex "enough with the layers upon layers of guitar. It's getting to sound like a friggin' hive of bees!"

[Lieutenant Dan]

I just remember why I don't go to Rush messageboards often. Old dudes living in the past hating on modern music and wanting everything to sound like Moving Pictures. Rush fans have been complaining about sound since Signals and some since Permanent Waves. Pathetic. Proceeds to enjoy the sonic diversity in his Rush catalog and forget he came here today.

 

I guess at 46 I qualify as an old-timer :codger:

 

However, my very first exposure to Rush was "New World Man" on the radio when Signals came out. My brother (who had some bucks) picked up the "Signals" and "Moving Pictures" LPs and we both listened to those for weeks.

 

Then I continued to move backwards into their catalog, while also keeping up with their new releases.

 

I'm kind of a low-rent audiophile, and a musician and self-producer, so my ear is very keen to the production differences in the albums, but I guess I don't find myself wishing for a return to the dry aesthetic of the 2112 through Hemispheres era. They've already done that, and it's a dated sound.

 

I feel that CA has sort of become the crystalization of what Rush has always aimed for. It's a focused, full-length concept album with very good production and arrangement while not being overwrought in either of those things.

 

My favorite album in their catalog remains "Hemispheres", but I certainly wouldn't want everything to sound like that or an extension of it. They've already DONE it. Rush is progressive, from album to album, their journey always moves forward (and occasionally down a side-road that some fans don't much enjoy the scenery lol).

 

Now, for giggles...what do I think is their best-sounding album? In many respects, I'd have to say "Signals" because it's so meaty, big and bouncy :) It's not as clinically clear as "Moving Pictures" or as dry as "Kings", but it's punchy all day long. Good lord, go back and listen to "Subdivisions", "The Analog Kid", "Countdown"....listen to Geddy's bass just GROWL and feel Neil's kick drum! Woof!

 

On a slight tangent, "Hold Your FIre" has some great songs on it, but the production?? It's like they fit the band into a reverb chamber and hit 'RECORD".

 

Enough rambling...sorry for the long post folks. I'm still too new here to go on so! :)

Edited October 17, 2013 by Lieutenant Dan

[Captain Avatar]

..heterogeneous in the sense that each musical instrument is clearly distinct and separate from the central "glob" of sound that u hear from them, nowadays (like a nebula). I miss the clean, hetero- "precision"-type albums like PermWavs, MPs, P/G. Seems now everything is a bit overproduced with overreliance on technology, which has given the wall of sound that we've been subjected to over the past decade or so.

 

Why couldn't Rush revert back to older (sacre' bleu!) instruments/speakers in studio, then use their newer instruments in concert? Does anyone remember the beautiful tightness and clarity of Neil's kits in the 80s? Now its like, well, tupperware! (credit to whomever penned this term, btw, lol).

What about Alex's soaring and razor-edged strats (and poor little dusty chorus box)? Why couldn't Gedsy sneak a stealth Rickenbacker into the studio and then swap it out in concert?

Am I being unrealistic thinking they would ever divert from their full-spectrum aural productions? Are u in favor of my aforementioned thoughts? What do u think?

 

 

Btw, Tom Sawyer just began playing on the radio as I wrote the last sentence. Quite apropos!

 

I basically agree with this, except that I think Clockwork Angels really is an awesome album, with a bunch of good songs, and a turn in the right direction. As much as I love Clockwork Angels' songs, I do wish it was a tad bit clearer, with better instrument separation, less bass and guitar "crowdedness" and less "splashiness" to Neil's cymbals and more precision. The other day I was listening the newly remastered Presto on my iPod (which sounds incredible, by the way), and after Available Light finished, Summertime Blues came on. Granted, it's not an original Rush tune, but the difference in production and sound couldn't have been more stark. Where Presto was precise, melodic, and "heterogeneous" to the nth-degree, Feedback was the complete opposite. It was messy and crowded. It really sounded like crap in comparison. Hopefully Clockwork Angels is a preview of better things to come.

[Segue Myles]

I still think Rush got off lightly...compare Clockwork Angels and Snakes and Arrows to Bruce Springsteens Magic or Alter Bridges ABIII, and you will come away thinking Rush were underproduced!

 

As for Vapor Trails, have yet to hear it (will probably start with the Remix).

[Segue Myles]

I just remember why I don't go to Rush messageboards often. Old dudes living in the past hating on modern music and wanting everything to sound like Moving Pictures. Rush fans have been complaining about sound since Signals and some since Permanent Waves. Pathetic. Proceeds to enjoy the sonic diversity in his Rush catalog and forget he came here today.

 

Sorry to double post, went back to this one again!

 

I am 23 and for about five years I have been convinced that modern music sounds ugly, rarely do I hear music that sounds organic and I am sick of having to listen over and over to a song trying to get past the production in order to finally warm to each seperate instrument and vocal layer. Aside from a few bands, EVERY modern rock and pop artist have such loud and bassy production, and it all sounds so thick, dense. Bruce Springsteens Magic is a prime example. A very near perfect collection of Springsteen anthems ruined by shocking production amd mixing it is AWFUL!

 

And there are a lot more examples...music really did sound better about thirty years ago!

 

You dont need to be old to notice or dislike this!

Edited October 18, 2013 by Segue Myles

[Lieutenant Dan]

..heterogeneous in the sense that each musical instrument is clearly distinct and separate from the central "glob" of sound that u hear from them, nowadays (like a nebula). I miss the clean, hetero- "precision"-type albums like PermWavs, MPs, P/G. Seems now everything is a bit overproduced with overreliance on technology, which has given the wall of sound that we've been subjected to over the past decade or so.

 

Why couldn't Rush revert back to older (sacre' bleu!) instruments/speakers in studio, then use their newer instruments in concert? Does anyone remember the beautiful tightness and clarity of Neil's kits in the 80s? Now its like, well, tupperware! (credit to whomever penned this term, btw, lol).

What about Alex's soaring and razor-edged strats (and poor little dusty chorus box)? Why couldn't Gedsy sneak a stealth Rickenbacker into the studio and then swap it out in concert?

Am I being unrealistic thinking they would ever divert from their full-spectrum aural productions? Are u in favor of my aforementioned thoughts? What do u think?

 

 

Btw, Tom Sawyer just began playing on the radio as I wrote the last sentence. Quite apropos!

 

I basically agree with this, except that I think Clockwork Angels really is an awesome album, with a bunch of good songs, and a turn in the right direction. As much as I love Clockwork Angels' songs, I do wish it was a tad bit clearer, with better instrument separation, less bass and guitar "crowdedness" and less "splashiness" to Neil's cymbals and more precision. The other day I was listening the newly remastered Presto on my iPod (which sounds incredible, by the way), and after Available Light finished, Summertime Blues came on. Granted, it's not an original Rush tune, but the difference in production and sound couldn't have been more stark. Where Presto was precise, melodic, and "heterogeneous" to the nth-degree, Feedback was the complete opposite. It was messy and crowded. It really sounded like crap in comparison. Hopefully Clockwork Angels is a preview of better things to come.

 

LOL, well going from Presto to Feedback would be a little jarring. I get what you're saying, but I think Feedback was just a fun EP of songs these guys were jamming to and playing out in their youth. As such, the production is much more garage-like and live sounding. It works well for the energy behind 'Summertime Blues' and 'The Seeker', especially....at least to my ears.

 

It's like they wanted to get in there, play these songs and not overcomplicate the stew, as it were, if they tried to make a meticulous production out of it.

[Dscrapre]

I do think that they should put some limits on it. One track of drums, one of bass, 2 guitars, one or two layers of vocals, and a synth/effect track should be all that's needed. This layers and layers of guitar stuff is just insane.

 

I'd understand it if there was one track for rhythm, one for leads, and a couple of tracks to do little flourishes with here and there, but it just seem like these days it's 20 rhythm tracks right on top of each other.

 

I think that the Anarchist is a very good example of a slick, conservatively produced modern Rush tune. Everything is in it's right place. Clockwork Angels is the exact opposite. It's overly noisy and buried under layers and layers of rhythm guitar, which has made it nearly unenjoyable for me.

 

As for people crapping on modern music, may I please direct you to Radiohead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFYOkfpBrSY

 

EDIT: I just realized how appropriate it was for me to attach this particular song to this particular post. This song is a good example of a huge number of layers achieving what would be otherwise impossible. There is a ton of stuff going on in this song, 2 different guitars, a bass player, synthesizers of some sort, three drummers, a brass section, and 2 vocalists. Yet, every element is distinct. Each "voice" adding a unique part to the mix. Similar to an orchestra.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dscrapre

[GeminiRising79]

Wow, that is just a shit of a song. Absolute rubbish.