If you could make a single critique to Neil, face to face, what would you say?

[Your_Lion]

This is what I'd say:

 

"Hi Neil, I'd just like to tell you.....hey, where are you going?...don't run away...come back...wow, there's really no need to lock the door......... uh bye then, I guess."

[jnoble]

Not the whole thing, but there is still the classic Neil "dystopian future lurking with evil people and bad things happening to the good" flavor to the story line

I understand what you mean there, although the story starts and ends on positive notes, so I see it as a happy story rather than dystopian. Have you read the novel? Maybe my viewpoint is coloured by that, also.

 

What do you think about Vapor Trails? Do you see that album as 'world sucks' too? I was surprised at the positivity in the lyrics, considering what Neil had been through.

 

Yes and no but mostly yes. lol The main theme of VT is coming back from adversity and hardtimes but the album still has its share of "everything is hopeless" songs ie The Stars Look Down, How It Is, Vapor Trail.

[MMCXII]

Even when their songs have a depressing theme (i.e. suicide), the lyrics are written by someone who has been there and understands how you feel and your despair. He is there to tell you that others have been where you are now, and that you are not alone.

 

I do not find their songs depressing but full of hope - for myself and many others. If in doubt, read the thread "Rush and the Broken People." If their songs were so depressing, many of those valiant souls wouldn't be here to share their stories in that thread. Rush would have pushed them over the edge. Instead, they helped them turn around and begin again - sometimes despite the worst odds you could imagine.

 

Good point but can we really lump all their music into this category? Rush has many different songs to draw from (which is the true beauty of rush music). I consider 'ghost rider' and 'how it is' to be sad songs.

 

But I guess we should point out that a sad song can be comforting if it does a good job of putting your feelings into words, thus making you feel good when you hear it..

 

Btw Nice thread Gemini ;)

 

Edit: Maybe I should've read your post a little better Lorraine, I may have just echoed what you're saying lol

Edited August 31, 2013 by MMCXII

[Spaghetti Lee]

I would honestly ask Neil to be upfront about why he has purposely dumbed-down his drumming; is it out of disdain for the older songs? Or can he simply NOT do it (I doubt that)? Or, is it just that he CAN do it, but simply doesn't care enough to TRY to play the hard parts right? For example, most recently I'm talking about performances of Middletown Dreams, the solo section of Freewill, or Red Sector A, where he COMPLETELY destroys the original drum parts on PURPOSE. Remember that great counterpoint hi-hat work during the verses in Middletown Dreams? They are GONE. Simplified and dumbed down, as if he either forgot how the song went, or just didn't think it important enough to play properly. TOTALLY ruins the song. Same goes for the ride cymbal work during the "I clutch the wire fence" section of Red Sector A...again, all the great song enhancing drum parts are gone. Or, the vastly simplified solo section of Freewill; even the "strange cymbal hit" during the first major drum fill of the solo that Neil so overbloatingly gloats over on his "Taking Center Stage" DVD is COMPLETELY eliminated (and again drastically dumbed down) on the Time Machine DVD:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDUXE9-SS4s

 

Check out the 3:38 mark when Neil completely forgets how to perform that fill...and again, he completely eliminates the finessed harder aspects and that cymbal hit that he seemed so gleefully proud of in his instructional dvd. Makes no sense...does he eliminate all the little details/fluidity/finesse that MADE him what he is on purpose? Is he just tired? Does he think fans won't notice? Does he do it on purpose just to piss us off that crave 1/10th of the old Neil?

 

When songs such as Middletown Dreams are ultimately so gravely shaped by their drum parts, it's a travesty to shit all over them the way he seems to do...on purpose. For someone who brags constantly about preparation, months of rehearsal, attention to detail, composing, working out all the little drum parts, and striving to be "as good as on the record," then how would he justify again such simplification of his ICONIC drum parts to the point that they are VASTLY simplified compared to the originals?

 

And, why do so many people disregard it and don't care? Do they just blindly support such sloppiness because they think "Neil is God" no matter how much of "what he was" he eliminates in his performances by purposeful choice?

 

That's what I'd ask him.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Spaghetti Lee

[Dscrapre]

Not the whole thing, but there is still the classic Neil "dystopian future lurking with evil people and bad things happening to the good" flavor to the story line

I understand what you mean there, although the story starts and ends on positive notes, so I see it as a happy story rather than dystopian. Have you read the novel? Maybe my viewpoint is coloured by that, also.

 

What do you think about Vapor Trails? Do you see that album as 'world sucks' too? I was surprised at the positivity in the lyrics, considering what Neil had been through.

 

Yes and no but mostly yes. lol The main theme of VT is coming back from adversity and hardtimes but the album still has its share of "everything is hopeless" songs ie The Stars Look Down, How It Is, Vapor Trail.

 

I was with you until How It Is. I'm a huge fan on that song (see my signature) and it is not an "everything is hopeless song". Quite contrary, I think it is one of the most gorgeous and hopeful songs that they've ever done.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Dscrapre

[greyfriar]

don't forget...

 

he's not a robot without emotions he's not what you see

he's come to help you with your problems so we can be free

he's not a hero he's not a saviour forget what you know

he's just a man whose circumstances went beyond his control

 

:smoke:

[GeddysMullet]

What do you think about Vapor Trails? Do you see that album as 'world sucks' too? I was surprised at the positivity in the lyrics, considering what Neil had been through.

 

Yes and no but mostly yes. lol The main theme of VT is coming back from adversity and hardtimes but the album still has its share of "everything is hopeless" songs ie The Stars Look Down, How It Is, Vapor Trail.

 

I was with you until How It Is. I'm a huge fan on that song (see my signature) and it is not an "everything is hopeless song". Quite contrary, I think it is one of the most gorgeous and hopeful songs that they've ever done.

 

"How It Is" is a perfect example of what I said in my post above:

I think the reason that I don't find many Rush songs to be depressing or pessimistic is that even when the subject matter is sombre or heavy, the music itself is full of determination and sparks of life, as if the underlying message of it is "Yes, there's sadness in the world, there are bad things, things that hurt, things that want to defeat me, but I AM HERE AND I WILL LIVE MY LIFE."

 

The juxtaposition of the dark lyrics with the bright, driving music creates an eloquent expression of the fact that even on the bleakest days, there is still hope and things will get better. Read the lyrics carefully, and you see that, by calling it "a little trap" and through the use of words and phrases like "sometimes", "seems like", and "in the moment", they describe feeling those awful feelings but then acknowledging that the permanence of those feelings is illusory and getting back to work at lifting up your spirits enough to continue until they pass. This last point is evidenced by the bridge verse:

 

Foot upon the stair

Shoulder to the wheel

You can't tell yourself not to care

You can't tell yourself how to feel

That's how it is

That's how it is

 

 

That song is veritable masterpiece of an "Everything might seem hopeless right now, but seriously, IT ISN'T" statement, and a large part of the reason I so passionately love this band. :rush:

[GeddysMullet]

I would honestly ask Neil to be upfront about why he has purposely dumbed-down his drumming; is it out of disdain for the older songs? Or can he simply NOT do it (I doubt that)? Or, is it just that he CAN do it, but simply doesn't care enough to TRY to play the hard parts right? For example, most recently I'm talking about performances of Middletown Dreams, the solo section of Freewill, or Red Sector A, where he COMPLETELY destroys the original drum parts on PURPOSE. Remember that great counterpoint hi-hat work during the verses in Middletown Dreams? They are GONE. Simplified and dumbed down, as if he either forgot how the song went, or just didn't think it important enough to play properly. TOTALLY ruins the song. Same goes for the ride cymbal work during the "I clutch the wire fence" section of Red Sector A...again, all the great song enhancing drum parts are gone. Or, the vastly simplified solo section of Freewill; even the "strange cymbal hit" during the first major drum fill of the solo that Neil so overbloatingly gloats over on his "Taking Center Stage" DVD is COMPLETELY eliminated (and again drastically dumbed down) on the Time Machine DVD:

 

 

 

Check out the 3:38 mark when Neil completely forgets how to perform that fill...and again, he completely eliminates the finessed harder aspects and that cymbal hit that he seemed so gleefully proud of in his instructional dvd. Makes no sense...does he eliminate all the little details/fluidity/finesse that MADE him what he is on purpose? Is he just tired? Does he think fans won't notice? Does he do it on purpose just to piss us off that crave 1/10th of the old Neil?

 

When songs such as Middletown Dreams are ultimately so gravely shaped by their drum parts, it's a travesty to shit all over them the way he seems to do...on purpose. For someone who brags constantly about preparation, months of rehearsal, attention to detail, composing, working out all the little drum parts, and striving to be "as good as on the record," then how would he justify again such simplification of his ICONIC drum parts to the point that they are VASTLY simplified compared to the originals?

 

And, why do so many people disregard it and don't care? Do they just blindly support such sloppiness because they think "Neil is God" no matter how much of "what he was" he eliminates in his performances by purposeful choice?

 

That's what I'd ask him.

 

Please seriously consider that perhaps it is not "shitting all over," "dumbing down" or a desire to "piss [certain fans] off" but are indeed concessions to physical limitations resulting from his age and lifestyle.

 

Geddy has often described rigorous lifestyle choices he has to make during tours to be able to perform shows the way he does; strict dietary limitations, full days of rest without even speaking to people, etc. We all know that Neil's motorcycle adventures are a large part of what makes the actual process of touring tolerable/worth it to him. So my guess is that it's not so much that he doesn't care enough to try as that he knows that he cannot do what he needs to do to stay sane while on the road and also sustain those kinds of performances.

 

I would much prefer that Neil simplify his drum parts than that Rush should stop touring because he cannot tolerate the kind of monastic life on the road that Geddy can.

Edited September 1, 2013 by GeddysMullet

[Spaghetti Lee]

I would honestly ask Neil to be upfront about why he has purposely dumbed-down his drumming; is it out of disdain for the older songs? Or can he simply NOT do it (I doubt that)? Or, is it just that he CAN do it, but simply doesn't care enough to TRY to play the hard parts right? For example, most recently I'm talking about performances of Middletown Dreams, the solo section of Freewill, or Red Sector A, where he COMPLETELY destroys the original drum parts on PURPOSE. Remember that great counterpoint hi-hat work during the verses in Middletown Dreams? They are GONE. Simplified and dumbed down, as if he either forgot how the song went, or just didn't think it important enough to play properly. TOTALLY ruins the song. Same goes for the ride cymbal work during the "I clutch the wire fence" section of Red Sector A...again, all the great song enhancing drum parts are gone. Or, the vastly simplified solo section of Freewill; even the "strange cymbal hit" during the first major drum fill of the solo that Neil so overbloatingly gloats over on his "Taking Center Stage" DVD is COMPLETELY eliminated (and again drastically dumbed down) on the Time Machine DVD:

 

 

 

Check out the 3:38 mark when Neil completely forgets how to perform that fill...and again, he completely eliminates the finessed harder aspects and that cymbal hit that he seemed so gleefully proud of in his instructional dvd. Makes no sense...does he eliminate all the little details/fluidity/finesse that MADE him what he is on purpose? Is he just tired? Does he think fans won't notice? Does he do it on purpose just to piss us off that crave 1/10th of the old Neil?

 

When songs such as Middletown Dreams are ultimately so gravely shaped by their drum parts, it's a travesty to shit all over them the way he seems to do...on purpose. For someone who brags constantly about preparation, months of rehearsal, attention to detail, composing, working out all the little drum parts, and striving to be "as good as on the record," then how would he justify again such simplification of his ICONIC drum parts to the point that they are VASTLY simplified compared to the originals?

 

And, why do so many people disregard it and don't care? Do they just blindly support such sloppiness because they think "Neil is God" no matter how much of "what he was" he eliminates in his performances by purposeful choice?

 

That's what I'd ask him.

 

Please seriously consider that perhaps it is not "shitting all over," "dumbing down" or a desire to "piss [certain fans] off" but are indeed concessions to physical limitations resulting from his age and lifestyle.

 

Geddy has often described rigorous lifestyle choices he has to make during tours to be able to perform shows the way he does -- strict dietary limitations, full days of rest without even speaking to people, etc -- and how burdensome they are. We all know that Neil's motorcycle adventures are a large part of what makes the actual process of touring tolerable/worth it to him. So my guess is that it's not so much that he doesn't care enough to try as that he knows that he cannot live the way he needs to live while on the road and also sustain those kind of performances.

 

I would much prefer that Neil simplify his drum parts than that Rush should stop touring because he cannot tolerate the kind of monastic life on the road that Geddy can.

 

It absolutely does NOT take any more energy or physical stamina to play the hi-hat parts properly on Middletown Dreams. He purposely chose to change it. If he can physically play Tom Sawyer, he can definitely play Middletown Dreams and Red Sector A the way they were written without purposely playing them wrong with no regard for the dynamic contrasts in the original recordings. Now, as far as simplifying something like Freewill, age could very well be a factor in that...but then again, he shouldn't be boasting about a certain fill whilst at the same time on the same tour not even ATTEMPTING that fill the way he is blotivating about it.

[GeddysMullet]

I would honestly ask Neil to be upfront about why he has purposely dumbed-down his drumming; is it out of disdain for the older songs? Or can he simply NOT do it (I doubt that)? Or, is it just that he CAN do it, but simply doesn't care enough to TRY to play the hard parts right? For example, most recently I'm talking about performances of Middletown Dreams, the solo section of Freewill, or Red Sector A, where he COMPLETELY destroys the original drum parts on PURPOSE. Remember that great counterpoint hi-hat work during the verses in Middletown Dreams? They are GONE. Simplified and dumbed down, as if he either forgot how the song went, or just didn't think it important enough to play properly. TOTALLY ruins the song. Same goes for the ride cymbal work during the "I clutch the wire fence" section of Red Sector A...again, all the great song enhancing drum parts are gone. Or, the vastly simplified solo section of Freewill; even the "strange cymbal hit" during the first major drum fill of the solo that Neil so overbloatingly gloats over on his "Taking Center Stage" DVD is COMPLETELY eliminated (and again drastically dumbed down) on the Time Machine DVD:

 

 

 

Check out the 3:38 mark when Neil completely forgets how to perform that fill...and again, he completely eliminates the finessed harder aspects and that cymbal hit that he seemed so gleefully proud of in his instructional dvd. Makes no sense...does he eliminate all the little details/fluidity/finesse that MADE him what he is on purpose? Is he just tired? Does he think fans won't notice? Does he do it on purpose just to piss us off that crave 1/10th of the old Neil?

 

When songs such as Middletown Dreams are ultimately so gravely shaped by their drum parts, it's a travesty to shit all over them the way he seems to do...on purpose. For someone who brags constantly about preparation, months of rehearsal, attention to detail, composing, working out all the little drum parts, and striving to be "as good as on the record," then how would he justify again such simplification of his ICONIC drum parts to the point that they are VASTLY simplified compared to the originals?

 

And, why do so many people disregard it and don't care? Do they just blindly support such sloppiness because they think "Neil is God" no matter how much of "what he was" he eliminates in his performances by purposeful choice?

 

That's what I'd ask him.

 

Please seriously consider that perhaps it is not "shitting all over," "dumbing down" or a desire to "piss [certain fans] off" but are indeed concessions to physical limitations resulting from his age and lifestyle.

 

Geddy has often described rigorous lifestyle choices he has to make during tours to be able to perform shows the way he does -- strict dietary limitations, full days of rest without even speaking to people, etc -- and how burdensome they are. We all know that Neil's motorcycle adventures are a large part of what makes the actual process of touring tolerable/worth it to him. So my guess is that it's not so much that he doesn't care enough to try as that he knows that he cannot live the way he needs to live while on the road and also sustain those kind of performances.

 

I would much prefer that Neil simplify his drum parts than that Rush should stop touring because he cannot tolerate the kind of monastic life on the road that Geddy can.

 

It absolutely does NOT take any more energy or physical stamina to play the hi-hat parts properly on Middletown Dreams. He purposely chose to change it. If he can physically play Tom Sawyer, he can definitely play Middletown Dreams and Red Sector A the way they were written without purposely playing them wrong with no regard for the dynamic contrasts in the original recordings. Now, as far as simplifying something like Freewill, age could very well be a factor in that...but then again, he shouldn't be boasting about a certain fill whilst at the same time on the same tour not even ATTEMPTING that fill the way he is blotivating about it.

 

Hey, I don't even LIKE to defend Neil's sense of self-importance, but I don't see why he isn't fully entitled to be proud of drum parts that he created and played live for years, even if he does not play them that way anymore!

 

As for energy and physical stamina, regardless of how you personally might feel about playing those parts, you are simply not in a position to judge the effect they do or don't have on Neil's body.

Edited September 1, 2013 by GeddysMullet

[rushgoober]

I would honestly ask Neil to be upfront about why he has purposely dumbed-down his drumming; is it out of disdain for the older songs? Or can he simply NOT do it (I doubt that)? Or, is it just that he CAN do it, but simply doesn't care enough to TRY to play the hard parts right? For example, most recently I'm talking about performances of Middletown Dreams, the solo section of Freewill, or Red Sector A, where he COMPLETELY destroys the original drum parts on PURPOSE. Remember that great counterpoint hi-hat work during the verses in Middletown Dreams? They are GONE. Simplified and dumbed down, as if he either forgot how the song went, or just didn't think it important enough to play properly. TOTALLY ruins the song. Same goes for the ride cymbal work during the "I clutch the wire fence" section of Red Sector A...again, all the great song enhancing drum parts are gone. Or, the vastly simplified solo section of Freewill; even the "strange cymbal hit" during the first major drum fill of the solo that Neil so overbloatingly gloats over on his "Taking Center Stage" DVD is COMPLETELY eliminated (and again drastically dumbed down) on the Time Machine DVD:

 

 

 

Check out the 3:38 mark when Neil completely forgets how to perform that fill...and again, he completely eliminates the finessed harder aspects and that cymbal hit that he seemed so gleefully proud of in his instructional dvd. Makes no sense...does he eliminate all the little details/fluidity/finesse that MADE him what he is on purpose? Is he just tired? Does he think fans won't notice? Does he do it on purpose just to piss us off that crave 1/10th of the old Neil?

 

When songs such as Middletown Dreams are ultimately so gravely shaped by their drum parts, it's a travesty to shit all over them the way he seems to do...on purpose. For someone who brags constantly about preparation, months of rehearsal, attention to detail, composing, working out all the little drum parts, and striving to be "as good as on the record," then how would he justify again such simplification of his ICONIC drum parts to the point that they are VASTLY simplified compared to the originals?

 

And, why do so many people disregard it and don't care? Do they just blindly support such sloppiness because they think "Neil is God" no matter how much of "what he was" he eliminates in his performances by purposeful choice?

 

That's what I'd ask him.

 

Please seriously consider that perhaps it is not "shitting all over," "dumbing down" or a desire to "piss [certain fans] off" but are indeed concessions to physical limitations resulting from his age and lifestyle.

 

Geddy has often described rigorous lifestyle choices he has to make during tours to be able to perform shows the way he does -- strict dietary limitations, full days of rest without even speaking to people, etc -- and how burdensome they are. We all know that Neil's motorcycle adventures are a large part of what makes the actual process of touring tolerable/worth it to him. So my guess is that it's not so much that he doesn't care enough to try as that he knows that he cannot live the way he needs to live while on the road and also sustain those kind of performances.

 

I would much prefer that Neil simplify his drum parts than that Rush should stop touring because he cannot tolerate the kind of monastic life on the road that Geddy can.

 

It absolutely does NOT take any more energy or physical stamina to play the hi-hat parts properly on Middletown Dreams. He purposely chose to change it. If he can physically play Tom Sawyer, he can definitely play Middletown Dreams and Red Sector A the way they were written without purposely playing them wrong with no regard for the dynamic contrasts in the original recordings. Now, as far as simplifying something like Freewill, age could very well be a factor in that...but then again, he shouldn't be boasting about a certain fill whilst at the same time on the same tour not even ATTEMPTING that fill the way he is blotivating about it.

 

Wow, you seem really angry. Sounds like you should not attend their concerts anymore and enjoy their studio albums or you might blow a gasket or something.

[Bluefunk]

What do you think about Vapor Trails? Do you see that album as 'world sucks' too? I was surprised at the positivity in the lyrics, considering what Neil had been through.

 

Yes and no but mostly yes. lol The main theme of VT is coming back from adversity and hardtimes but the album still has its share of "everything is hopeless" songs ie The Stars Look Down, How It Is, Vapor Trail.

 

I was with you until How It Is. I'm a huge fan on that song (see my signature) and it is not an "everything is hopeless song". Quite contrary, I think it is one of the most gorgeous and hopeful songs that they've ever done.

 

"How It Is" is a perfect example of what I said in my post above:

I think the reason that I don't find many Rush songs to be depressing or pessimistic is that even when the subject matter is sombre or heavy, the music itself is full of determination and sparks of life, as if the underlying message of it is "Yes, there's sadness in the world, there are bad things, things that hurt, things that want to defeat me, but I AM HERE AND I WILL LIVE MY LIFE."

 

The juxtaposition of the dark lyrics with the bright, driving music creates an eloquent expression of the fact that even on the bleakest days, there is still hope and things will get better. Read the lyrics carefully, and you see that, by calling it "a little trap" and through the use of words and phrases like "sometimes", "seems like", and "in the moment", they describe feeling those awful feelings but then acknowledging that the permanence of those feelings is illusory and getting back to work at lifting up your spirits enough to continue until they pass. This last point is evidenced by the bridge verse:

 

Foot upon the stair

Shoulder to the wheel

You can't tell yourself not to care

You can't tell yourself how to feel

That's how it is

That's how it is

 

 

That song is veritable masterpiece of an "Everything might seem hopeless right now, but seriously, IT ISN'T" statement, and a large part of the reason I so passionately love this band. :rush:

I agree, I think 'How It Is' is a hopeful song, too. I don't really see 'The Stars Look Down' as being negative, either- and 'Vapor Trail' I see as a commentary on transience rather than a lamentation.

[Bluefunk]

It absolutely does NOT take any more energy or physical stamina to play the hi-hat parts properly on Middletown Dreams. He purposely chose to change it.

I think that's the key- after all, Neil's re-learned to play drums since he wrote those songs. So I think it's more like he's playing them how he wants them to sound now. Also, he's said that he improvises more whilst playing live now.

[The Analog Grownup]

What do you think about Vapor Trails? Do you see that album as 'world sucks' too? I was surprised at the positivity in the lyrics, considering what Neil had been through.

 

Yes and no but mostly yes. lol The main theme of VT is coming back from adversity and hardtimes but the album still has its share of "everything is hopeless" songs ie The Stars Look Down, How It Is, Vapor Trail.

 

I was with you until How It Is. I'm a huge fan on that song (see my signature) and it is not an "everything is hopeless song". Quite contrary, I think it is one of the most gorgeous and hopeful songs that they've ever done.

 

"How It Is" is a perfect example of what I said in my post above:

I think the reason that I don't find many Rush songs to be depressing or pessimistic is that even when the subject matter is sombre or heavy, the music itself is full of determination and sparks of life, as if the underlying message of it is "Yes, there's sadness in the world, there are bad things, things that hurt, things that want to defeat me, but I AM HERE AND I WILL LIVE MY LIFE."

 

The juxtaposition of the dark lyrics with the bright, driving music creates an eloquent expression of the fact that even on the bleakest days, there is still hope and things will get better. Read the lyrics carefully, and you see that, by calling it "a little trap" and through the use of words and phrases like "sometimes", "seems like", and "in the moment", they describe feeling those awful feelings but then acknowledging that the permanence of those feelings is illusory and getting back to work at lifting up your spirits enough to continue until they pass. This last point is evidenced by the bridge verse:

 

Foot upon the stair

Shoulder to the wheel

You can't tell yourself not to care

You can't tell yourself how to feel

That's how it is

That's how it is

 

 

That song is veritable masterpiece of an "Everything might seem hopeless right now, but seriously, IT ISN'T" statement, and a large part of the reason I so passionately love this band. :rush:

I agree, I think 'How It Is' is a hopeful song, too. I don't really see 'The Stars Look Down' as being negative, either- and 'Vapor Trail' I see as a commentary on transience rather than a lamentation.

 

I absolutely love How It Is for its optimistic feel. I have my Iphone alarm wake me up with that song, and it sets a good mood for the rest of the day

[ReRushed]

I would honestly ask Neil to be upfront about why he has purposely dumbed-down his drumming; is it out of disdain for the older songs? Or can he simply NOT do it (I doubt that)? Or, is it just that he CAN do it, but simply doesn't care enough to TRY to play the hard parts right? For example, most recently I'm talking about performances of Middletown Dreams, the solo section of Freewill, or Red Sector A, where he COMPLETELY destroys the original drum parts on PURPOSE. Remember that great counterpoint hi-hat work during the verses in Middletown Dreams? They are GONE. Simplified and dumbed down, as if he either forgot how the song went, or just didn't think it important enough to play properly. TOTALLY ruins the song. Same goes for the ride cymbal work during the "I clutch the wire fence" section of Red Sector A...again, all the great song enhancing drum parts are gone. Or, the vastly simplified solo section of Freewill; even the "strange cymbal hit" during the first major drum fill of the solo that Neil so overbloatingly gloats over on his "Taking Center Stage" DVD is COMPLETELY eliminated (and again drastically dumbed down) on the Time Machine DVD:

 

 

 

Check out the 3:38 mark when Neil completely forgets how to perform that fill...and again, he completely eliminates the finessed harder aspects and that cymbal hit that he seemed so gleefully proud of in his instructional dvd. Makes no sense...does he eliminate all the little details/fluidity/finesse that MADE him what he is on purpose? Is he just tired? Does he think fans won't notice? Does he do it on purpose just to piss us off that crave 1/10th of the old Neil?

 

When songs such as Middletown Dreams are ultimately so gravely shaped by their drum parts, it's a travesty to shit all over them the way he seems to do...on purpose. For someone who brags constantly about preparation, months of rehearsal, attention to detail, composing, working out all the little drum parts, and striving to be "as good as on the record," then how would he justify again such simplification of his ICONIC drum parts to the point that they are VASTLY simplified compared to the originals?

 

And, why do so many people disregard it and don't care? Do they just blindly support such sloppiness because they think "Neil is God" no matter how much of "what he was" he eliminates in his performances by purposeful choice?

 

That's what I'd ask him.

 

Please seriously consider that perhaps it is not "shitting all over," "dumbing down" or a desire to "piss [certain fans] off" but are indeed concessions to physical limitations resulting from his age and lifestyle.

 

Geddy has often described rigorous lifestyle choices he has to make during tours to be able to perform shows the way he does -- strict dietary limitations, full days of rest without even speaking to people, etc -- and how burdensome they are. We all know that Neil's motorcycle adventures are a large part of what makes the actual process of touring tolerable/worth it to him. So my guess is that it's not so much that he doesn't care enough to try as that he knows that he cannot live the way he needs to live while on the road and also sustain those kind of performances.

 

I would much prefer that Neil simplify his drum parts than that Rush should stop touring because he cannot tolerate the kind of monastic life on the road that Geddy can.

 

It absolutely does NOT take any more energy or physical stamina to play the hi-hat parts properly on Middletown Dreams. He purposely chose to change it. If he can physically play Tom Sawyer, he can definitely play Middletown Dreams and Red Sector A the way they were written without purposely playing them wrong with no regard for the dynamic contrasts in the original recordings. Now, as far as simplifying something like Freewill, age could very well be a factor in that...but then again, he shouldn't be boasting about a certain fill whilst at the same time on the same tour not even ATTEMPTING that fill the way he is blotivating about it.

 

Wow, you seem really angry. Sounds like you should not attend their concerts anymore and enjoy their studio albums or you might blow a gasket or something.

 

Sounds like Mom and Dad are renovating the basement.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

It absolutely does NOT take any more energy or physical stamina to play the hi-hat parts properly on Middletown Dreams. He purposely chose to change it.

I think that's the key- after all, Neil's re-learned to play drums since he wrote those songs. So I think it's more like he's playing them how he wants them to sound now. Also, he's said that he improvises more whilst playing live now.

 

He said he improvises on the CA songs, because he put aside sections of those songs to improvise in, just like he did in the studio. He said the older songs were to be played as originally written.

[Bluefunk]

Oh, I must have misunderstood, then. I read this and took it to mean he may improvise throughout, but reading it again maybe he just means the solos?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/08/13/on-introverts-learning-to-improvise-and-why-people-should-be-nicer-to-one-another/

 

I think they do have to 'relearn' each song they decide to play on tour though- so they might rearrange things whilst they do that.

[The Analog Grownup]

I would say wether or not he plays something exactly as on the records, is a minor detail to me. As long as they don't do polka renditions of all of their songs, I'm fine ;)

[Spaghetti Lee]

It absolutely does NOT take any more energy or physical stamina to play the hi-hat parts properly on Middletown Dreams. He purposely chose to change it.

I think that's the key- after all, Neil's re-learned to play drums since he wrote those songs. So I think it's more like he's playing them how he wants them to sound now. Also, he's said that he improvises more whilst playing live now.

 

He said he improvises on the CA songs, because he put aside sections of those songs to improvise in, just like he did in the studio. He said the older songs were to be played as originally written.

 

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I could care less how he plays songs that were meant to be improvised. But, when he specifically states that the older songs were to be played "as originally written" at the same time gleefully boasting about the minute details of a certain fill in Freewill on his instructional DVD, one expects the man to stick to his word...how can you boast about playing a certain fill a very specific way and then on the same tour (done at the same TIME as the instructional DVD) completely DISREGARD and IGNORE every single detail of the fill that you just bragged about for several minutes? It reeks of a lack of integrity and laziness...

 

As for Middletown Dreams and Red Sector A...if Neil really "prepared" for all those months I would tend to think he would learn how the songs went originally; especially since Neil always speaks of "rhythm of verse" and all that. If he really was genuine about such things, he wouldn't purposely destroy such important dynamic counterpoints in songs such as those. Either he just doesn't care to do it right, or he completely disregards those songs because they are old. Or, he could very possibly do it knowing that it's a big "FU" to those of us who hold his older pre-boring style in the highest regard.

 

He's slowly omitting all the finesse, dynamics, touch, feel, intensity, total attention to the smallest detail, and depth of control that simply made him "Neil Peart." And, I propose he's doing it on purpose.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Spaghetti Lee

[Bluefunk]

Does anybody have a link to an interview where Neil mentions playing the older songs 'as written'? I can't find a source for that.

[Cyclonus X-1]

Great thread. I'd say, "Stop vetoing all the great songs Alex suggests for the setlists, you bum."

[LedRush]

But Gem, what did Neil do to you personally?

 

He took an extraordinary band with a wonderful track record and single-handedly drove it into a bog.

Neil writes exactly 0% of the music.

Not very well phrased. I doubt Lee & Lifeson write the drum parts and the drums are a major part of Rush's music.

 

Neil said about Clockwork Angels: "

Yeah, but it grew from the bottom up. The reverse is how we worked in the ’70s: I would think of a grand plan and then build the pieces to fit it. This started as a simple [idea]—the steampunk image and aesthetic I liked, I suggested to the guys as the basis for some kind of extended work. It built up to [the album] piece by piece by organic expansion. All the music was created by Geddy and Alex jamming in the studio".