eshine Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 This song, interlude, whatever, is an easy target because it's weird. It's brooding, fits the mood of the lyric perfectly, Ged sounds defeated, as he should in context of the story, and the strings tie it all together. Nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (NYM86 @ Jul 12 2012, 06:33 AM) It's borderline mindblowing how so many people not only consider BU2B2 a "song," but some great, deep work of genius at that. When put it on, I hear a couple of strings fade in, Geddy croon some nonsense that Neil has written about way more eloquently dozens of times before (and with a corny ABAB rhyme scheme at that), and then some strings fade out. Uhm, so - after you go splash some cold water on your face, come back and someone here will explain to you that this is a concept album Mindblowing indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYM86 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (eshine @ Jul 12 2012, 11:14 PM) QUOTE (NYM86 @ Jul 12 2012, 06:33 AM) It's borderline mindblowing how so many people not only consider BU2B2 a "song," but some great, deep work of genius at that. When put it on, I hear a couple of strings fade in, Geddy croon some nonsense that Neil has written about way more eloquently dozens of times before (and with a corny ABAB rhyme scheme at that), and then some strings fade out. Uhm, so - after you go splash some cold water on your face, come back and someone here will explain to you that this is a concept album Mindblowing indeed ? I know it's a concept album. That doesn't change 1) the fact that BU2B is an interlude and not a song, and 2) my opinion that it's not a particularly good interlude as far as concept albums go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Its not really a song as far as I'm conerned, its a transition that keeps the story moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusGal Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (snowdogged @ Jul 12 2012, 01:20 AM)I actually love how trippy this little abbreviation of a song is and think it really is a big part of making this album feel like a concept album. All I've read are people putting it down. Does anyone else like BU2B2? I think BU2B2 is brilliant and essential to the narrative. It gets little love here and I think undeservedly so. The one thing I note about the song (and it *is* a song, imo) is it is very monochromatic. Where the rest of the album has has vivid colour and texture, BU2B2 is very black and white sounding. Geddy's delivery is small and contained, the band is virtually non-existent. It is the hinge, without which, the rest of the album unravels. Perhaps that is why the song is causing such passionate reactions. People don't know what to do with black and white Rush? We're used to Rush in full colour. Just speculating.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (CygnusGal @ Jul 14 2012, 06:18 AM)QUOTE (snowdogged @ Jul 12 2012, 01:20 AM)I actually love how trippy this little abbreviation of a song is and think it really is a big part of making this album feel like a concept album. All I've read are people putting it down. Does anyone else like BU2B2? I think BU2B2 is brilliant and essential to the narrative. It gets little love here and I think undeservedly so. The one thing I note about the song (and it *is* a song, imo) is it is very monochromatic. Where the rest of the album has has vivid colour and texture, BU2B2 is very black and white sounding. Geddy's delivery is small and contained, the band is virtually non-existent. It is the hinge, without which, the rest of the album unravels. Perhaps that is why the song is causing such passionate reactions. People don't know what to do with black and white Rush? We're used to Rush in full colour. Just speculating.... I don't care about the fact that it's not dynamic musically. I care about the flow of the concept, and lyrically and thematically it's a real bummer and it seriously brings the theme down completely unnecessarily after the hugely positive Headlong Flight. Like I said, stick it between The Wreckers and Headlong Flight and suddenly it makes sense. Otherwise it doesn't. Even if it was placed properly, it's the one "song" that doesn't work on its own at all. That's my least favorite aspect of concept albums - songs that only serve to fit the story and out of context fall apart. I like what some people have said about seeing it as an intro to Wish Them Well, as it kind of almost works if you look at it that way, but even still the song is pretty damn bleak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Some see BU2B2 as positive because of some of the words, but I can't see it that way. Neil has a history of writing lyrics like this - he heaps on the negativity, doubt, depression and despair, and then adds some conditional, strained positivity that he's reaching towards at the end as if that's supposed to make up for what came before. I never liked that at all, and I like it even less with BU2B2: Negative: I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate I don't believe in forever or love as a mystical state I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from above Barely Positive: But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love and make it last Negative: I don't have faith in faith I don't believe in belief You can call me faithless Barely Positive: I still cling to hope And I believe in love And that's faith enough for me And worst of all: Negative: I was brought up to believe Belief has failed me now The bright glow of optimism Abandoned me somehow Belief has failed me now Life goes from bad to worse No philosophy consoles me In a clockwork universe Life goes from bad to worse Barely positive: I still choose to live Find a measure of love and laughter And another measure to give I still choose to live And give, even while I grieve Though the balance tilts against me I was brought up to believe It's kind of an attitude of life sucks and then you die, but I'm going to try and make the best of it anyway with a ghost of a chance of success, clinging to hope and finding a measure of positivity even though the deck is stacked against me. Sorry, don't like it and never did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlyJeff Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I disagree that it is barely positive- choosing life over misplaced belief is a huge decision, and a transition many people don't make. Without the change in BU2B2 there is no Garden or Wish Them Well. Even the positive looking back in Headlong Flight is not the same thing as choosing to move forward in a positive way, unhindered by the chains of a hurtful, incorrect belief. I dare say BU2B2 is the emotional center of the album with the songs preceding it telling us of his "old life" enslaved to false belief (except for Headlong Flight, which is a positive reflection on a painful adventure), and the songs after it telling us the changes that come from this enlightenment. I don't care that it doesn't stand alone as a song because it's pretty short and the rest of the songs on the album do a fantastic job of standing one their own, but I can see why that irritates you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softfilter Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) I love it for what it is, a little musical narrative inbetween songs. Weird some people on here act like they never heard of such thing.(Pink Floyd-Roger Waters era, Lou Reed I know that makes some people cringe but he does this often.) I do understand and agree with goober, GR about the placement is awkward, but perhaps Owen Hardy is" A manic depressive he walks in the rain" And like Neil explained in the CA fan pack magazine about the lyrics to headlong flight, If your a depressed person even day can be dark. Edited July 14, 2012 by softfilter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Jul 14 2012, 07:47 AM)I disagree that it is barely positive- choosing life over misplaced belief is a huge decision, and a transition many people don't make. You make it sound a bit more simplistic than it actually is. It's more than just going from misplaced belief to choosing life. What he was brought up to believe was "all is for the best." And his realization after denying that belief is "life goes from bad to worse." And then he's choosing life after that realization, but saying he's finding a "measure" of love and laughter and another "measure" to give still sounds bleak - like he's saying life sucks, but maybe i can still find SOME love, laughter and giving while grieving and while the balance tilts against him. Sounds like grasping at straws to me. But then again, Ghost of a Chance and Faithless also sound like that to me. I just don't see how saying life sucks and is hard but I'm going to hope and try anyway and maybe if I'm really lucky I'll get something good. That's how it reads to me. QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Jul 14 2012, 07:47 AM)Without the change in BU2B2 there is no Garden or Wish Them Well. Even the positive looking back in Headlong Flight is not the same thing as choosing to move forward in a positive way, unhindered by the chains of a hurtful, incorrect belief. Admittedly he does turn it around with Wish Them Well and The Garden, but I don't see BU2B2 as moving forward in a positive way. It sounds like begrudgingly trying to make things work. Yes, working to overcome tragedy and hardship is admirable, but the song is still super depressing, especially after the very uplifting Headlong Flight. It's an awkward, clunky and unsuccessful transition. QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Jul 14 2012, 07:47 AM)I dare say BU2B2 is the emotional center of the album with the songs preceding it telling us of his "old life" enslaved to false belief (except for Headlong Flight, which is a positive reflection on a painful adventure), and the songs after it telling us the changes that come from this enlightenment. Even you seem to be making the argument that BU2B2 doesn't fit after Headlong Flight. Stick it after The Wreckers and then we end the album on a positive upswing without it being dragged down after the positivity starts. Then the story arc makes sense. QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Jul 14 2012, 07:47 AM)I don't care that it doesn't stand alone as a song because it's pretty short and the rest of the songs on the album do a fantastic job of standing one their own, but I can see why that irritates you. If the rest of the album wasn't so damn strong, it probably wouldn't bother me nearly as much. It's just unfortunate that it mars an otherwise near-perfect album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyndseyG Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I love BU2B! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 14 2012, 09:30 AM) Some see BU2B2 as positive because of some of the words, but I can't see it that way. Neil has a history of writing lyrics like this - he heaps on the negativity, doubt, depression and despair, and then adds some conditional, strained positivity that he's reaching towards at the end as if that's supposed to make up for what came before. I never liked that at all, and I like it even less with BU2B2: Negative: I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate I don't believe in forever or love as a mystical state I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from above Barely Positive: But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love and make it last Negative: I don't have faith in faith I don't believe in belief You can call me faithless Barely Positive: I still cling to hope And I believe in love And that's faith enough for me And worst of all: Negative: I was brought up to believe Belief has failed me now The bright glow of optimism Abandoned me somehow Belief has failed me now Life goes from bad to worse No philosophy consoles me In a clockwork universe Life goes from bad to worse Barely positive: I still choose to live Find a measure of love and laughter And another measure to give I still choose to live And give, even while I grieve Though the balance tilts against me I was brought up to believe It's kind of an attitude of life sucks and then you die, but I'm going to try and make the best of it anyway with a ghost of a chance of success, clinging to hope and finding a measure of positivity even though the deck is stacked against me. Sorry, don't like it and never did... I think that your interpretation of all of those lyrics are the negative thing. Within all of the lyrics you presented I believe that the message is individuality and forming your own beliefs and not conforming to an idealistic that society or parts of society try to push upon you. Just because someone does not believe in a God that no one can prove exists or not does not make them a negative person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (snowdogged @ Jul 14 2012, 12:38 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 14 2012, 09:30 AM) Some see BU2B2 as positive because of some of the words, but I can't see it that way. Neil has a history of writing lyrics like this - he heaps on the negativity, doubt, depression and despair, and then adds some conditional, strained positivity that he's reaching towards at the end as if that's supposed to make up for what came before. I never liked that at all, and I like it even less with BU2B2: Negative: I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate I don't believe in forever or love as a mystical state I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from above Barely Positive: But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love and make it last Negative: I don't have faith in faith I don't believe in belief You can call me faithless Barely Positive: I still cling to hope And I believe in love And that's faith enough for me And worst of all: Negative: I was brought up to believe Belief has failed me now The bright glow of optimism Abandoned me somehow Belief has failed me now Life goes from bad to worse No philosophy consoles me In a clockwork universe Life goes from bad to worse Barely positive: I still choose to live Find a measure of love and laughter And another measure to give I still choose to live And give, even while I grieve Though the balance tilts against me I was brought up to believe It's kind of an attitude of life sucks and then you die, but I'm going to try and make the best of it anyway with a ghost of a chance of success, clinging to hope and finding a measure of positivity even though the deck is stacked against me. Sorry, don't like it and never did... I think that your interpretation of all of those lyrics are the negative thing. Within all of the lyrics you presented I believe that the message is individuality and forming your own beliefs and not conforming to an idealistic that society or parts of society try to push upon you. Just because someone does not believe in a God that no one can prove exists or not does not make them a negative person. I believe Goobs is pretty spot on in his thoughts. but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 14 2012, 09:30 AM) Some see BU2B2 as positive because of some of the words, but I can't see it that way. Neil has a history of writing lyrics like this - he heaps on the negativity, doubt, depression and despair, and then adds some conditional, strained positivity that he's reaching towards at the end as if that's supposed to make up for what came before. I never liked that at all, and I like it even less with BU2B2: Negative: I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate I don't believe in forever or love as a mystical state I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from above Barely Positive: But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love and make it last Negative: I don't have faith in faith I don't believe in belief You can call me faithless Barely Positive: I still cling to hope And I believe in love And that's faith enough for me And worst of all: Negative: I was brought up to believe Belief has failed me now The bright glow of optimism Abandoned me somehow Belief has failed me now Life goes from bad to worse No philosophy consoles me In a clockwork universe Life goes from bad to worse Barely positive: I still choose to live Find a measure of love and laughter And another measure to give I still choose to live And give, even while I grieve Though the balance tilts against me I was brought up to believe It's kind of an attitude of life sucks and then you die, but I'm going to try and make the best of it anyway with a ghost of a chance of success, clinging to hope and finding a measure of positivity even though the deck is stacked against me. Sorry, don't like it and never did... agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyfriar Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (LyndseyG @ Jul 14 2012, 05:18 PM) I love BU2B! It's about BU2B2 here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (snowdogged @ Jul 14 2012, 09:38 AM)QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 14 2012, 09:30 AM) Some see BU2B2 as positive because of some of the words, but I can't see it that way. Neil has a history of writing lyrics like this - he heaps on the negativity, doubt, depression and despair, and then adds some conditional, strained positivity that he's reaching towards at the end as if that's supposed to make up for what came before. I never liked that at all, and I like it even less with BU2B2: Negative: I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate I don't believe in forever or love as a mystical state I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from above Barely Positive: But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love and make it last Negative: I don't have faith in faith I don't believe in belief You can call me faithless Barely Positive: I still cling to hope And I believe in love And that's faith enough for me And worst of all: Negative: I was brought up to believe Belief has failed me now The bright glow of optimism Abandoned me somehow Belief has failed me now Life goes from bad to worse No philosophy consoles me In a clockwork universe Life goes from bad to worse Barely positive: I still choose to live Find a measure of love and laughter And another measure to give I still choose to live And give, even while I grieve Though the balance tilts against me I was brought up to believe It's kind of an attitude of life sucks and then you die, but I'm going to try and make the best of it anyway with a ghost of a chance of success, clinging to hope and finding a measure of positivity even though the deck is stacked against me. Sorry, don't like it and never did... I think that your interpretation of all of those lyrics are the negative thing. Within all of the lyrics you presented I believe that the message is individuality and forming your own beliefs and not conforming to an idealistic that society or parts of society try to push upon you. Just because someone does not believe in a God that no one can prove exists or not does not make them a negative person. You added a lot of things in there I didn't say. I'm just saying the way those lyrics look to me that I quoted, it's all pretty bleak and depressing. I completely understand that a lot of people have the exact opposite reaction. I don't get it at all, but you're entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Tick and ReflectedLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (snowdogged @ Jul 14 2012, 11:38 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 14 2012, 09:30 AM) Some see BU2B2 as positive because of some of the words, but I can't see it that way. Neil has a history of writing lyrics like this - he heaps on the negativity, doubt, depression and despair, and then adds some conditional, strained positivity that he's reaching towards at the end as if that's supposed to make up for what came before. I never liked that at all, and I like it even less with BU2B2: Negative: I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate I don't believe in forever or love as a mystical state I don't believe in the stars or the planets or angels watching from above Barely Positive: But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love and make it last Negative: I don't have faith in faith I don't believe in belief You can call me faithless Barely Positive: I still cling to hope And I believe in love And that's faith enough for me And worst of all: Negative: I was brought up to believe Belief has failed me now The bright glow of optimism Abandoned me somehow Belief has failed me now Life goes from bad to worse No philosophy consoles me In a clockwork universe Life goes from bad to worse Barely positive: I still choose to live Find a measure of love and laughter And another measure to give I still choose to live And give, even while I grieve Though the balance tilts against me I was brought up to believe It's kind of an attitude of life sucks and then you die, but I'm going to try and make the best of it anyway with a ghost of a chance of success, clinging to hope and finding a measure of positivity even though the deck is stacked against me. Sorry, don't like it and never did... I think that your interpretation of all of those lyrics are the negative thing. Within all of the lyrics you presented I believe that the message is individuality and forming your own beliefs and not conforming to an idealistic that society or parts of society try to push upon you. Just because someone does not believe in a God that no one can prove exists or not does not make them a negative person. i guess it's no different than having a liberal professor in college with certain viewspoints and trying to push it on students? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) Edited July 14, 2012 by snowdogged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) Edited July 14, 2012 by snowdogged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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