rushgoober Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Ok, it is with some embarrassment that I am actually thoroughly enjoying Caravan & BU2B now. I didn't until very recently. Two years ago my thoughts on the songs were this: Caravan - great introduction, great instrumental breakdown, but I found the lyrics uninspiring, especially in the aftermath of the much more universal and inspiring lyrics of Far Cry. The lyrics just weren't connecting with me. BU2B - Basically I thought it was Faithless part 2 - another annoying, seething, preachy song on those who have faith. For two years everyone said these are part of a concept album, and wait until you hear them in context before passing judgment. Now that I actually have heard them IN CONTEXT, they do make perfect sense in the concept. Caravan wasn't necessarily meant to be inspiring, but filled with youthful hope. BU2B's Watchmaker is much more of an amorphously definied character than seeming to have the more religious/spiritual connotation it seemed to. IN MY DEFENSE, Rush probably didn't handle this very well. I highly doubt they intended to have these songs released a full two years prior to the album. Really, I felt like I had absolutely no choice but to take the songs at face value. I knew they were part of a concept, but what was I supposed to do, not take the songs at face value and enjoy the songs in the context of a concept without the concept? It was hard to enjoy them the way they were intended to be if I had no clue what that intention was, so I did the only thing that made sense, I took them literally, and in that regards, I didn't like what I heard. Anyway, I admit I was wrong, and I'm grateful I was. Like I've said many times, I never want to NOT like or love a Rush song - it is always with sadness when I don't. And oh yeah, the improved mixes of the songs didn't hurt any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdFireYYZ Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Its cool that you warmed up to the songs. I never thought you would post that you like BU2B. Now if you start saying you like Vapor Trails...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaked Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 who are you and what have you done with the real Goober? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (Snaked @ Jun 16 2012, 10:00 PM) who are you and what have you done with the real Goober? I'm his (clockwork) angelic twin, he's the evil twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossedSignals Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 16 2012, 09:55 PM) Ok, it is with some embarrassment that I am actually thoroughly enjoying Caravan & BU2B now. I didn't until very recently. Two years ago my thoughts on the songs were this: Caravan - great introduction, great instrumental breakdown, but I found the lyrics uninspiring, especially in the aftermath of the much more universal and inspiring lyrics of Far Cry. The lyrics just weren't connecting with me. BU2B - Basically I thought it was Faithless part 2 - another annoying, seething, preachy song on those who have faith. For two years everyone said these are part of a concept album, and wait until you hear them in context before passing judgment. Now that I actually have heard them IN CONTEXT, they do make perfect sense in the concept. Caravan wasn't necessarily meant to be inspiring, but filled with youthful hope. BU2B's Watchmaker is much more of an amorphously definied character than seeming to have the more religious/spiritual connotation it seemed to. IN MY DEFENSE, Rush probably didn't handle this very well. I highly doubt they intended to have these songs released a full two years prior to the album. Really, I felt like I had absolutely no choice but to take the songs at face value. I knew they were part of a concept, but what was I supposed to do, not take the songs at face value and enjoy the songs in the context of a concept without the concept? It was hard to enjoy them the way they were intended to be if I had no clue what that intention was, so I did the only thing that made sense, I took them literally, and in that regards, I didn't like what I heard. Anyway, I admit I was wrong, and I'm grateful I was. Like I've said many times, I never want to NOT like or love a Rush song - it is always with sadness when I don't. And oh yeah, the improved mixes of the songs didn't hurt any. You pay too much attention to lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 16 2012, 11:55 PM) Ok, it is with some embarrassment that I am actually thoroughly enjoying Caravan & BU2B now. I didn't until very recently. Two years ago my thoughts on the songs were this: Caravan - great introduction, great instrumental breakdown, but I found the lyrics uninspiring, especially in the aftermath of the much more universal and inspiring lyrics of Far Cry. The lyrics just weren't connecting with me. BU2B - Basically I thought it was Faithless part 2 - another annoying, seething, preachy song on those who have faith. For two years everyone said these are part of a concept album, and wait until you hear them in context before passing judgment. Now that I actually have heard them IN CONTEXT, they do make perfect sense in the concept. Caravan wasn't necessarily meant to be inspiring, but filled with youthful hope. BU2B's Watchmaker is much more of an amorphously definied character than seeming to have the more religious/spiritual connotation it seemed to. IN MY DEFENSE, Rush probably didn't handle this very well. I highly doubt they intended to have these songs released a full two years prior to the album. Really, I felt like I had absolutely no choice but to take the songs at face value. I knew they were part of a concept, but what was I supposed to do, not take the songs at face value and enjoy the songs in the context of a concept without the concept? It was hard to enjoy them the way they were intended to be if I had no clue what that intention was, so I did the only thing that made sense, I took them literally, and in that regards, I didn't like what I heard. Anyway, I admit I was wrong, and I'm grateful I was. Like I've said many times, I never want to NOT like or love a Rush song - it is always with sadness when I don't. And oh yeah, the improved mixes of the songs didn't hurt any. Have you performed a manic medieval dance while listening to these songs though? Capering about your living room like some twisted prog hippy jester, shaking your marotte and ringing the little bells in your three pointed hat? THIS is the acid test, literally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (treeduck @ Jun 16 2012, 10:52 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 16 2012, 11:55 PM) Ok, it is with some embarrassment that I am actually thoroughly enjoying Caravan & BU2B now. I didn't until very recently. Two years ago my thoughts on the songs were this: Caravan - great introduction, great instrumental breakdown, but I found the lyrics uninspiring, especially in the aftermath of the much more universal and inspiring lyrics of Far Cry. The lyrics just weren't connecting with me. BU2B - Basically I thought it was Faithless part 2 - another annoying, seething, preachy song on those who have faith. For two years everyone said these are part of a concept album, and wait until you hear them in context before passing judgment. Now that I actually have heard them IN CONTEXT, they do make perfect sense in the concept. Caravan wasn't necessarily meant to be inspiring, but filled with youthful hope. BU2B's Watchmaker is much more of an amorphously definied character than seeming to have the more religious/spiritual connotation it seemed to. IN MY DEFENSE, Rush probably didn't handle this very well. I highly doubt they intended to have these songs released a full two years prior to the album. Really, I felt like I had absolutely no choice but to take the songs at face value. I knew they were part of a concept, but what was I supposed to do, not take the songs at face value and enjoy the songs in the context of a concept without the concept? It was hard to enjoy them the way they were intended to be if I had no clue what that intention was, so I did the only thing that made sense, I took them literally, and in that regards, I didn't like what I heard. Anyway, I admit I was wrong, and I'm grateful I was. Like I've said many times, I never want to NOT like or love a Rush song - it is always with sadness when I don't. And oh yeah, the improved mixes of the songs didn't hurt any. Have you performed a manic medieval dance while listening to these songs though? Capering about your living room like some twisted prog hippy jester, shaking your marotte and ringing the little bells in your three pointed hat? THIS is the acid test, literally! um... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3strukt Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I just shat bricks. Did you just say.....that you LIKE BU2B? HELL HAS FROZEN OVER THE PLANETS HAVE ALLIGNED PIGS CAN FLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (D3strukt @ Jun 16 2012, 11:06 PM) I just shat bricks. Did you just say.....that you LIKE BU2B? HELL HAS FROZEN OVER THE PLANETS HAVE ALLIGNED PIGS CAN FLY. No one saw that coming less than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSHHEAD666 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 16 2012, 11:28 PM) QUOTE (D3strukt @ Jun 16 2012, 11:06 PM) I just shat bricks. Did you just say.....that you LIKE BU2B? HELL HAS FROZEN OVER THE PLANETS HAVE ALLIGNED PIGS CAN FLY. No one saw that coming less than I. Gary! You can't fool me!! I know you too well. I knew you would fall for "Caravan" and "BU2B." Even I was an asshole at first and thought the new record was lame after one listening. Now I am in love with it all. I am sure you are really digging the new album as a whole. Shit I bet even Gemini Rising loves "Clockwork Angels." There is hope for all and to all a goodnight. All is well and balanced in Rushland. Well who knows what tomorrow will bring............................................. Edited June 17, 2012 by RUSHHEAD666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gedneil Alpeart Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 16 2012, 11:55 PM) Ok, it is with some embarrassment that I am actually thoroughly enjoying Caravan & BU2B now. I didn't until very recently. Two years ago my thoughts on the songs were this: Caravan - great introduction, great instrumental breakdown, but I found the lyrics uninspiring, especially in the aftermath of the much more universal and inspiring lyrics of Far Cry. The lyrics just weren't connecting with me. BU2B - Basically I thought it was Faithless part 2 - another annoying, seething, preachy song on those who have faith. For two years everyone said these are part of a concept album, and wait until you hear them in context before passing judgment. Now that I actually have heard them IN CONTEXT, they do make perfect sense in the concept. Caravan wasn't necessarily meant to be inspiring, but filled with youthful hope. BU2B's Watchmaker is much more of an amorphously definied character than seeming to have the more religious/spiritual connotation it seemed to. IN MY DEFENSE, Rush probably didn't handle this very well. I highly doubt they intended to have these songs released a full two years prior to the album. Really, I felt like I had absolutely no choice but to take the songs at face value. I knew they were part of a concept, but what was I supposed to do, not take the songs at face value and enjoy the songs in the context of a concept without the concept? It was hard to enjoy them the way they were intended to be if I had no clue what that intention was, so I did the only thing that made sense, I took them literally, and in that regards, I didn't like what I heard. Anyway, I admit I was wrong, and I'm grateful I was. Like I've said many times, I never want to NOT like or love a Rush song - it is always with sadness when I don't. And oh yeah, the improved mixes of the songs didn't hurt any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Two years ago: I thought BU2B was good and Caravan was very good, especially the instrumental breakdown (the "Primus jam"). Two minutes into BU2B, on my first listen to the full album, I thought "I'm going to love this album!" Based, at that point, on only hearing a song I already knew (Caravan) and two minutes of another I already knew (BU2B)! Something about putting them within the full "concept album" context elevated these songs for me. And yes, the new mixes and new intro for BU2B helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg2112 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 When the 2 singles first came out way back when, I liked Caravan much better than BU2B. But with the new album mixes and BU2B's new intro (which I think enhances the song, unlike what others think on this board) makes it an even better song, one more enjoyable than Caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 After reading the lyrics and hearing the other songs on the rest of the record the meaning of The Watchmaker became a little more clear and I was wondering how many others opinions were changed like yours. Glad to hear you are a convert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro2112 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I always liked BU2B better than Caravan, and still do. It's a better constructed song and rocks out better, especially after the break when they repeat the chorus.. those drum fills between the sung lines are edge of the seat frenetic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazyyz Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jun 17 2012, 08:41 AM) I always liked BU2B better than Caravan, and still do. It's a better constructed song and rocks out better, especially after the break when they repeat the chorus.. those drum fills between the sung lines are edge of the seat frenetic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 16 2012, 11:55 PM) Ok, it is with some embarrassment that I am actually thoroughly enjoying Caravan & BU2B now. I didn't until very recently. Two years ago my thoughts on the songs were this: Caravan - great introduction, great instrumental breakdown, but I found the lyrics uninspiring, especially in the aftermath of the much more universal and inspiring lyrics of Far Cry. The lyrics just weren't connecting with me. BU2B - Basically I thought it was Faithless part 2 - another annoying, seething, preachy song on those who have faith. For two years everyone said these are part of a concept album, and wait until you hear them in context before passing judgment. Now that I actually have heard them IN CONTEXT, they do make perfect sense in the concept. Caravan wasn't necessarily meant to be inspiring, but filled with youthful hope. BU2B's Watchmaker is much more of an amorphously definied character than seeming to have the more religious/spiritual connotation it seemed to. IN MY DEFENSE, Rush probably didn't handle this very well. I highly doubt they intended to have these songs released a full two years prior to the album. Really, I felt like I had absolutely no choice but to take the songs at face value. I knew they were part of a concept, but what was I supposed to do, not take the songs at face value and enjoy the songs in the context of a concept without the concept? It was hard to enjoy them the way they were intended to be if I had no clue what that intention was, so I did the only thing that made sense, I took them literally, and in that regards, I didn't like what I heard. Anyway, I admit I was wrong, and I'm grateful I was. Like I've said many times, I never want to NOT like or love a Rush song - it is always with sadness when I don't. And oh yeah, the improved mixes of the songs didn't hurt any. yeah i'm not into the music and the lyrics but even though like you mentioned, " BU2B's Watchmaker is much more of an amorphously definied character than seeming to have the more religious/spiritual connotation it seemed to.", i still think it's neil continuing with another faithless even while telling a story. geddy even said that they wanted the songs to be able to stand alone and all you have to do is remember the faithless, bu2b combination on the last tour. not a big deal as i don't care for the music on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losingit2k Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Way back then, we argued ( OK, we had fever pitched debates) about Caravan & BU2B and Far Cry being Instant classics. I'm glad I finally won that debate. Anyway, no need to eat your words, I change my mind about songs all the time. Some songs take time for them to grow on me (The Necromancer), others, steadily grow away from me (Neurotica) even though I liked them when they came out. these are the ones that leave me thinking "What the hell was I thinking?". I think its safe to say, the most people here highly value you opinion, I know I do. It also safe to say, that most people her know thay lyrics are a very important element to the music for you, unlike people like me which are more driven by the music and composition. Regardless, the point I'm trying to say and have failed by now, is that it's all very understandable and I'm glad you are enjoying Caravan and BU2B and CA as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) Edited June 17, 2012 by rushgoober Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jun 17 2012, 05:41 AM) I always liked BU2B better than Caravan, and still do. It's a better constructed song and rocks out better, especially after the break when they repeat the chorus.. those drum fills between the sung lines are edge of the seat frenetic! One thing I really am loving is that kind of dark, growly sound at the very end of the guitar riff, right before a lot of the vocal lines start. I can't really describe it well, obviously, but it's this almost evil sound that I equate with death metal or something. In other contexts I would hate it, but here it sounds REALLY cool... and dark. I like how intense and angry and urgent the song is, but only because it's balanced by some melody in the singing and playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (losingit2k @ Jun 17 2012, 06:50 AM) Way back then, we argued ( OK, we had fever pitched debates) about Caravan & BU2B and Far Cry being Instant classics. I'm glad I finally won that debate. Anyway, no need to eat your words, I change my mind about songs all the time. Some songs take time for them to grow on me (The Necromancer), others, steadily grow away from me (Neurotica) even though I liked them when they came out. these are the ones that leave me thinking "What the hell was I thinking?". I think its safe to say, the most people here highly value you opinion, I know I do. It also safe to say, that most people her know thay lyrics are a very important element to the music for you, unlike people like me which are more driven by the music and composition. Regardless, the point I'm trying to say and have failed by now, is that it's all very understandable and I'm glad you are enjoying Caravan and BU2B and CA as a whole. Whether or not those two songs are instant classics or not, I find it too early to tell, unlike songs like Clockwork Angels and The Garden, which have instant classic written all over them. Caravan and BU2B seem like great songs, however, and will likely grow on me even more. Far Cry is DEFINITELY a classic for me - that song is amazing, and it never had a concept it needed to fit into to make sense to me. As I've said before, with other groups the lyrics are not as important, but with Rush, the songs start with the lyrics. This is only because their lyrics are so significant and meaningful that they've set up a really high and mostly consistent standard with them. When their lyrics don't hold up (ex. Dog Years), it immediately drags a song down for me in a way that no instrumental virtuosity (ex. The Necromancer) can fix. If a Rush song fails lyrically for me, it fails. Thankfully the only place I'm detecting that as a major issue on CA is with BU2B2 - that one is a downer and to me seems completely unnecessary in the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucsteve667 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 17 2012, 10:12 AM) QUOTE (losingit2k @ Jun 17 2012, 06:50 AM) Way back then, we argued ( OK, we had fever pitched debates) about Caravan & BU2B and Far Cry being Instant classics. I'm glad I finally won that debate. Anyway, no need to eat your words, I change my mind about songs all the time. Some songs take time for them to grow on me (The Necromancer), others, steadily grow away from me (Neurotica) even though I liked them when they came out. these are the ones that leave me thinking "What the hell was I thinking?". I think its safe to say, the most people here highly value you opinion, I know I do. It also safe to say, that most people her know thay lyrics are a very important element to the music for you, unlike people like me which are more driven by the music and composition. Regardless, the point I'm trying to say and have failed by now, is that it's all very understandable and I'm glad you are enjoying Caravan and BU2B and CA as a whole. Whether or not those two songs are instant classics or not, I find it too early to tell, unlike songs like Clockwork Angels and The Garden, which have instant classic written all over them. Caravan and BU2B seem like great songs, however, and will likely grow on me even more. Far Cry is DEFINITELY a classic for me - that song is amazing, and it never had a concept it needed to fit into to make sense to me. As I've said before, with other groups the lyrics are not as important, but with Rush, the songs start with the lyrics. This is only because their lyrics are so significant and meaningful that they've set up a really high and mostly consistent standard with them. When their lyrics don't hold up (ex. Dog Years), it immediately drags a song down for me in a way that no instrumental virtuosity (ex. The Necromancer) can fix. If a Rush song fails lyrically for me, it fails. Thankfully the only place I'm detecting that as a major issue on CA is with BU2B2 - that one is a downer and to me seems completely unnecessary in the concept. I think when you figure BU2B2 in with his timline personally, it fits. that was a major blow to him semi late in life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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