Overall sound of CA

[Cygnusss]

When comparing it to other rush albums, the only thing that I can detect is an almost unnecessary background ambience. Like there's too much overall reverb on the whole mix. It makes neils drums sound too far away, (comparing to hemispheres era) where everything was very crisp. and it shortchanges some of his great fills.

 

I think part of the problem is the current styles of modern music mixing. it's just what's "in" HUGE BASSY DEEP ROCK. not like it used to be.

[WCFIELDS]

Yes, it does.....

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Jun 13 2012, 05:24 PM)

The only issue I hear so far is that CA may be mastered a little louder and with more compression than I was hoping for.

There you go...that's all I've stated from the beginning.

[They Bow Defeated]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 13 2012, 05:30 PM)

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Jun 13 2012, 05:24 PM) The only issue I hear so far is that CA may be mastered a little louder and with more compression than I was hoping for. There you go...that's all I've stated from the beginning. Troll.         Kidding.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Jun 13 2012, 06:34 PM)

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 13 2012, 05:30 PM) QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Jun 13 2012, 05:24 PM) The only issue I hear so far is that CA may be mastered a little louder and with more compression than I was hoping for. There you go...that's all I've stated from the beginning. Troll.         Kidding. I might just be.

[Pound of Obscure]

QUOTE (Cygnusss @ Jun 13 2012, 04:38 PM)

When comparing it to other rush albums, the only thing that I can detect is an almost unnecessary background ambience. Like there's too much overall reverb on the whole mix. It makes neils drums sound too far away, (comparing to hemispheres era) where everything was very crisp. and it shortchanges some of his great fills. I think part of the problem is the current styles of modern music mixing. it's just what's "in" HUGE BASSY DEEP ROCK. not like it used to be.

This might be it. I've been trying to define what makes it sound fuzzy and distorted to me. Maybe that is the culprit.

[SchemingDemon]

I'm certainly no audiophile, but the album sounds perfectly fine to my ears. And I can hardly listen to VT without getting a headache. All of the instruments on CA are perfectly discernible to my ears. My only complaint would be Geddy's vocals are a bit muddy, but that's mainly only on some parts of SCOG. Other than that, the album sounds fine

[Presto-digitation]

It's fine. Is it as wonderful as MP an PeW and all that analog goodness from 30 years ago? No. Is it the steaming fecking pile of unlistenable muddy shit that is Vapor Trails and Death Magnetic and....? No.

 

It's fine.

 

I'll be posting charts and graphs and visual evidence to prove this soon. (really I won't, but it makes me sound scientific...which, of course, is how we should measure sound...with graphs and waves and not ears).

 

Jesus. Kill me with all this talk. Go listen to the album. More time listening, less time dissecting the fecking minutia of digital bits. (I know, I know....it's "important...it's an opinion" etc). Well, there's mine.

 

Can't wait for the thread that criticizes the font type used on the track listing on the back of the album. Sure to be riveting. I've got a definite opinion about how Garamond is the PREFERRED track listing type face. I mean, don't get me started!!!

Edited June 14, 2012 by Presto-digitation

[SchemingDemon]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 13 2012, 08:34 PM)

It's fine.  Is it as wonderful as MP an PeW and all that analog goodness from 30 years ago?  No.  Is it the steaming fecking pile of unlistenable muddy shit that is Vapor Trails and Death Magnetic and....?  No. It's fine.

 

Edited June 14, 2012 by SchemingDemon

[OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan]

I think it sounds great.

 

I was actually anticipating issues from all of the threads about the sound quality and production and mixing....I think it's great and really like the remixed versions of Caravan and BU2B.

[ReRushed]

Music should be represented graphically so we can all enjoy it with our eyes.

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Jun 13 2012, 08:41 PM)

Music should be represented graphically so we can all enjoy it with our eyes.

I know, right? My ears tell me I like Clockwork Angels. Now if only it didn't chart out so poorly.

[maxdistortion]

Some issues. Its not quite brickwalled like Vapor Trails, but its flattened as far as dynamics go.

 

The mastering process is mostly what killed it. Mix-wise the bass is a touch too loud (never thought I'd say that about Geddy!) , and the drums are too low in the mix, they dont have any punch.

 

Me and my brother listened to the whole album in the car stereo. My Ipod randomly went to a song off of Test For Echo and we were in disbelief just how much punchier and organic that record sounds.

 

Im not so much disappionted in this album being mixed poorly as I am with Rush's live releases sounding so much worse than when actually there in concert.

[Pound of Obscure]

QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:43 PM)

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 02:36 PM) QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:32 PM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 02:23 PM) QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:03 PM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 01:55 PM) QUOTE (UltimoGuitarist @ Jun 13 2012, 01:46 PM) That's my main complaint that it sounds VERY wavy at times, like the sound is all over the place and disorienting. Also the fact that the guitars are buried big time. That's what it sounds like.   To me, when listening to music, one should be able to hear every instrument and what is being played, distinctly and clearly. There is a reason Neil "may" be playing ghost notes and splash cymbals. I'm sure its intended to be heard.   Many seem to disagree about the importance of that. Hence all the fun posts and troll calling. I'd really like to find out just where you can't hear Neil in this mix. I've listened over and over and can hear everything.   I'm truly interested in finding out where people think some of the instrumentation is indiscernible. I honestly hear them all. Well, where to start.   First, is it possible I have a bad cd? Is that even possible? I did entertain the possibility that my ears are not the same after 30 years of drumming, but as I mentioned above I have checked them. Other albums remain crystal clear.   So are your ears so shot that this sounds normal and good to you? I don't know. If your ears are good, and you don't hear very poor sound quality in every song, throughout the entire song, except for some quieter parts then I have a bad cd.   I could list everything. I've named some things in other threads. But I don't think listing everything will help. If you can't hear the glaring sound quality issues, my pointing them out won't help. I'm baffled honestly. Add clipping and make it freakishly loud and this would be VT quality.   I'm baffled you guys don't hear this. Is my cd bad? Guess I'm happy for you. When I listen I get mad because the sound detracts so much from what is there best since MP.   Live should be great. Can you point out an instance or two? Surely if there are so many one or two examples will be easy to find. Give me the song and the minute:second mark (or span of time). I'm not trying to be a smartass, I truly can hear everything pretty clearly...and no, my hearing isn't 100% either. I'll try to do that this evening when I get some time to pick out some parts. Thanks! Just a couple, I'm not looking to make this a huge project for you Lets see.   The things I'll point out here are just bigger examples of the problem. I think the entire song sounds like these points but to a lesser degree. These are just a couple to try to point out the sound issue I mean.   Clockwork at 2:17. Just goes fuzzy and dull compared to previous few seconds. Neil's toms in this section just run together. Just a rumble. No way to tell what he is playing. Everything just runs together. The rest of the song has a similar sound quality, just not near as bad.   Carnies. The whole song really. 1:00 No high end. Ride cymbal/hi-hat. Where is it? You can hear him go to the cymbals at the end of the measures, but just barely. He is crashing the cymbals and they are hardly audible. 1:25 same thing. Hi-hat/cymbals lost in the wash. Snare sounds like he has a slit in the head. 2:58-3:03, just pure noise.   Wreckers at 0:58, Neil just disappears. I know its not a rocker but...   Caravan. Neils tom run. When moving back up the toms the last two toms disappear in the new version. Wasn't like that in the single.   Maybe my issue is how far back Neil is in the mix. With a few exceptions, the only thing that consistantly is heard is his kick. Snare is weak and distant sounding most of the time. Cymbals are often inaudible.   Alex gets lost too much too with the bass so dominant in the mix.   It is possible I guess that my ears have declined enough that a mix that isn't really good causes me more problems than others. But that doesn't change the fact that this engineering job could have and arguably should have been much better.   That said, the songs are freakin great. I want to play these so bad. Just have to guess at all the stuff I can't hear. Guessing doesn't suit my psyche very well. I'm like Spock that way.

[Pound of Obscure]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 13 2012, 08:34 PM)

It's fine. Is it as wonderful as MP an PeW and all that analog goodness from 30 years ago? No. Is it the steaming fecking pile of unlistenable muddy shit that is Vapor Trails and Death Magnetic and....? No. It's fine. I'll be posting charts and graphs and visual evidence to prove this soon. (really I won't, but it makes me sound scientific...which, of course, is how we should measure sound...with graphs and waves and not ears). Jesus. Kill me with all this talk. Go listen to the album. More time listening, less time dissecting the fecking minutia of digital bits. (I know, I know....it's "important...it's an opinion" etc). Well, there's mine. Can't wait for the thread that criticizes the font type used on the track listing on the back of the album. Sure to be riveting. I've got a definite opinion about how Garamond is the PREFERRED track listing type face. I mean, don't get me started!!!

The font on the back cover is not to my liking.

 

I don't like the way it makes a parenthesis shape on the right side.

[Tarkus406]

When in doubt, vote treeduck

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 08:49 PM)

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 13 2012, 08:34 PM) It's fine.  Is it as wonderful as MP an PeW and all that analog goodness from 30 years ago?  No.  Is it the steaming fecking pile of unlistenable muddy shit that is Vapor Trails and Death Magnetic and....?  No. It's fine. I'll be posting charts and graphs and visual evidence to prove this soon.  (really I won't, but it makes me sound scientific...which, of course, is how we should measure sound...with graphs and waves and not ears). Jesus.  Kill me with all this talk.  Go listen to the album.  More time listening, less time dissecting the fecking minutia of digital bits.    (I know, I know....it's "important...it's an opinion" etc).  Well, there's mine.  Can't wait for the thread that criticizes the font type used on the track listing on the back of the album.  Sure to be riveting.  I've got a definite opinion about how Garamond is the PREFERRED track listing type face.  I mean, don't get me started!!! The font on the back cover is not to my liking.   I don't like the way it makes a parenthesis shape on the right side. Indeed! I'm glad I'm not the only perfectionist here. It really could've been soooo much better. I love the songs, but the font GUTS me.

[Pound of Obscure]

[RUSHHEAD666]

QUOTE (Gompers @ Jun 13 2012, 09:11 AM)

Discussion has begun about Clockwork Angels having some sound issues. I heard the leak and noticed it. I waited until the release to hear the quality of the sound. I have already found myself wishing things were different. The bottom is very pronounced. Many of Neil's fills featuring the high toms are low in the mix, even though the hits sound hard. Many times Alex's rhythm guitar is buried under the bass. These are my observances. Also, this does not detract heavily from the songwriting of this great release.

YES Gomps! As you've read through my thread about the record the mix annoys me. The mellower music on the record is much more tolerable.

 

Ducky must really be happy because "Clockwork Angels" truly is METAL!!

 

[SchemingDemon]

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 08:47 PM)

QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:43 PM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 02:36 PM) QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:32 PM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 02:23 PM) QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:03 PM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 01:55 PM) QUOTE (UltimoGuitarist @ Jun 13 2012, 01:46 PM) That's my main complaint that it sounds VERY wavy at times, like the sound is all over the place and disorienting. Also the fact that the guitars are buried big time. That's what it sounds like.   To me, when listening to music, one should be able to hear every instrument and what is being played, distinctly and clearly. There is a reason Neil "may" be playing ghost notes and splash cymbals. I'm sure its intended to be heard.   Many seem to disagree about the importance of that. Hence all the fun posts and troll calling. I'd really like to find out just where you can't hear Neil in this mix. I've listened over and over and can hear everything.   I'm truly interested in finding out where people think some of the instrumentation is indiscernible. I honestly hear them all. Well, where to start.   First, is it possible I have a bad cd? Is that even possible? I did entertain the possibility that my ears are not the same after 30 years of drumming, but as I mentioned above I have checked them. Other albums remain crystal clear.   So are your ears so shot that this sounds normal and good to you? I don't know. If your ears are good, and you don't hear very poor sound quality in every song, throughout the entire song, except for some quieter parts then I have a bad cd.   I could list everything. I've named some things in other threads. But I don't think listing everything will help. If you can't hear the glaring sound quality issues, my pointing them out won't help. I'm baffled honestly. Add clipping and make it freakishly loud and this would be VT quality.   I'm baffled you guys don't hear this. Is my cd bad? Guess I'm happy for you. When I listen I get mad because the sound detracts so much from what is there best since MP.   Live should be great. Can you point out an instance or two? Surely if there are so many one or two examples will be easy to find. Give me the song and the minute:second mark (or span of time). I'm not trying to be a smartass, I truly can hear everything pretty clearly...and no, my hearing isn't 100% either. I'll try to do that this evening when I get some time to pick out some parts. Thanks! Just a couple, I'm not looking to make this a huge project for you Lets see.   The things I'll point out here are just bigger examples of the problem. I think the entire song sounds like these points but to a lesser degree. These are just a couple to try to point out the sound issue I mean.   Clockwork at 2:17. Just goes fuzzy and dull compared to previous few seconds. Neil's toms in this section just run together. Just a rumble. No way to tell what he is playing. Everything just runs together. The rest of the song has a similar sound quality, just not near as bad.   Carnies. The whole song really. 1:00 No high end. Ride cymbal/hi-hat. Where is it? You can hear him go to the cymbals at the end of the measures, but just barely. He is crashing the cymbals and they are hardly audible. 1:25 same thing. Hi-hat/cymbals lost in the wash. Snare sounds like he has a slit in the head. 2:58-3:03, just pure noise.   Wreckers at 0:58, Neil just disappears. I know its not a rocker but...   Caravan. Neils tom run. When moving back up the toms the last two toms disappear in the new version. Wasn't like that in the single.   Maybe my issue is how far back Neil is in the mix. With a few exceptions, the only thing that consistantly is heard is his kick. Snare is weak and distant sounding most of the time. Cymbals are often inaudible.   Alex gets lost too much too with the bass so dominant in the mix.   It is possible I guess that my ears have declined enough that a mix that isn't really good causes me more problems than others. But that doesn't change the fact that this engineering job could have and arguably should have been much better.   That said, the songs are freakin great. I want to play these so bad. Just have to guess at all the stuff I can't hear. Guessing doesn't suit my psyche very well. I'm like Spock that way.   I agree with some of what you said, Neil does sort of disappear a couple times during a couple songs, it certainly could have been mixed better. But,   "2:58-3:03, just pure noise."   I can hear what he's playing pretty well   But I won't let a few flaws detract from my love of this album. I still think it sounds fine overall   Personally I love how loud Geddy's bass is overall

Edited June 14, 2012 by SchemingDemon

[trenken]

I havent picked up on any clipping so its immediately superior to VT, but it definitely doesnt sound as dynamic as I expected. Somewhat of a haze to it or something, a little flat sounding.

 

Im guessing this isnt Nick's fault, not the recording itself, but the mastering. It just does not sound as rich as something like Power Windows for example.

 

It doesnt bother me, but it definitely not the best sounding album out there.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 13 2012, 10:23 PM)

I havent picked up on any clipping so its immediately superior to VT, but it definitely doesnt sound as dynamic as I expected. Somewhat of a haze to it or something, a little flat sounding. Im guessing this isnt Nick's fault, not the recording itself, but the mastering. It just does not sound as rich as something like Power Windows for example. It doesnt bother me, but it definitely not the best sounding album out there.

Power Windows, to me, is their best record sound-wise.

[tjtull]

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 08:47 PM)

QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:43 PM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 02:36 PM) QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:32 PM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 02:23 PM) QUOTE (tjtull @ Jun 13 2012, 02:03 PM) QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jun 13 2012, 01:55 PM) QUOTE (UltimoGuitarist @ Jun 13 2012, 01:46 PM) That's my main complaint that it sounds VERY wavy at times, like the sound is all over the place and disorienting. Also the fact that the guitars are buried big time. That's what it sounds like.   To me, when listening to music, one should be able to hear every instrument and what is being played, distinctly and clearly. There is a reason Neil "may" be playing ghost notes and splash cymbals. I'm sure its intended to be heard.   Many seem to disagree about the importance of that. Hence all the fun posts and troll calling. I'd really like to find out just where you can't hear Neil in this mix. I've listened over and over and can hear everything.   I'm truly interested in finding out where people think some of the instrumentation is indiscernible. I honestly hear them all. Well, where to start.   First, is it possible I have a bad cd? Is that even possible? I did entertain the possibility that my ears are not the same after 30 years of drumming, but as I mentioned above I have checked them. Other albums remain crystal clear.   So are your ears so shot that this sounds normal and good to you? I don't know. If your ears are good, and you don't hear very poor sound quality in every song, throughout the entire song, except for some quieter parts then I have a bad cd.   I could list everything. I've named some things in other threads. But I don't think listing everything will help. If you can't hear the glaring sound quality issues, my pointing them out won't help. I'm baffled honestly. Add clipping and make it freakishly loud and this would be VT quality.   I'm baffled you guys don't hear this. Is my cd bad? Guess I'm happy for you. When I listen I get mad because the sound detracts so much from what is there best since MP.   Live should be great. Can you point out an instance or two? Surely if there are so many one or two examples will be easy to find. Give me the song and the minute:second mark (or span of time). I'm not trying to be a smartass, I truly can hear everything pretty clearly...and no, my hearing isn't 100% either. I'll try to do that this evening when I get some time to pick out some parts. Thanks! Just a couple, I'm not looking to make this a huge project for you Lets see.   The things I'll point out here are just bigger examples of the problem. I think the entire song sounds like these points but to a lesser degree. These are just a couple to try to point out the sound issue I mean.   Clockwork at 2:17. Just goes fuzzy and dull compared to previous few seconds. Neil's toms in this section just run together. Just a rumble. No way to tell what he is playing. Everything just runs together. The rest of the song has a similar sound quality, just not near as bad.   Carnies. The whole song really. 1:00 No high end. Ride cymbal/hi-hat. Where is it? You can hear him go to the cymbals at the end of the measures, but just barely. He is crashing the cymbals and they are hardly audible. 1:25 same thing. Hi-hat/cymbals lost in the wash. Snare sounds like he has a slit in the head. 2:58-3:03, just pure noise.   Wreckers at 0:58, Neil just disappears. I know its not a rocker but...   Caravan. Neils tom run. When moving back up the toms the last two toms disappear in the new version. Wasn't like that in the single.   Maybe my issue is how far back Neil is in the mix. With a few exceptions, the only thing that consistantly is heard is his kick. Snare is weak and distant sounding most of the time. Cymbals are often inaudible.   Alex gets lost too much too with the bass so dominant in the mix.   It is possible I guess that my ears have declined enough that a mix that isn't really good causes me more problems than others. But that doesn't change the fact that this engineering job could have and arguably should have been much better.   That said, the songs are freakin great. I want to play these so bad. Just have to guess at all the stuff I can't hear. Guessing doesn't suit my psyche very well. I'm like Spock that way. I took a critical listen to the CD on the drive home yesterday and put it in my good system when I got home. I think I get what your issues are (especially after reading your post above).   While I still don't think it's a "bad/awful/unlistenable" mix, overall, I did notice that a lot of the drum work (I'm not a drummer so I can't get as specific as you did) seems to blend together. I especially noticed it when there is interplay between bass guitar and drums or when there is heavy instrumentation in the song. Some places are crystal clear and some just merge together.   I'll concede that the mix could be better (Neil could be higher in the mix or the lower end could be more defined). I'm sure that to a drummer, such as yourself, it's a huge issue. I can imagine trying to pick those individual drum parts out and replicate them yourself would be nearly impossible.   So, I relent to some degree. However, I still hope that this flaw doesn't detract enough from the end product as to ruin the experience for you...and others. I can see a drummer being hypercritical of this.

[Gemari77]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 13 2012, 11:19 AM)

I said "yes, and I'm good with it". I'm not really ever 'good with it'...but in comparison to VT, I'm fine with CA more than VT. The sound issues are not at VT levels, and the songwriting is most certainly superior to VT as well. But yes, there definitely are some sound issues. People may dislike S&A, but the mix was far superior. If CA had the S&A mix, then man...this album would be explosive.

Sums it up for me. Everything you said....

 

Thing that bugs me the most are the heavy effects over just about everything, but especially the vocal....

 

Partially because, in preparing for C.A. I'd been listening to LOTS of 1977 through 1981 Rush. That's something I don't normally do, as I'm a bigger "synth era" and 90's Rush nut.

 

But, with Clockwork Angels, I definately find myself wishing for a "cleaner", less noisy sound where I can hear everything----the separation in the instruments, the clean upfront bass and vocals that aren't drowning in effects...

 

My ears are slowly adapting to the CA mix....but, I know what type of mix I prefer personally.

 

 

[Gompers]

QUOTE (maxdistortion @ Jun 13 2012, 09:45 PM)

Me and my brother listened to the whole album in the car stereo. My Ipod randomly went to a song off of Test For Echo and we were in disbelief just how much punchier and organic that record sounds.

I think a few more people who can't hear a problem should something like attempt this.