djb Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I know these are hmmm...25 years old, and that the tone has changed over the years, but the following lyrics have recently started to perturbe me. Hey Neil, some of us do get shafted a bit, some of us do need a helping hand, some of us need to get a job just to survive! Subdivisions: Some will sell their dreams for small desires Or lose the race to rats Get caught in ticking traps And start to dream of somewhere To relax their restless flight I didn't sell my dreams for small desires, I put them on hold to survive, but it kind of says if you don't live your dream, you are a sell out... Freewill: There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand, The cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland. All preordained A prisoner in chains A victim of venomous fate. Kicked in the face, You can't pray for a place In heaven's unearthly estate. I have led a pretty good life with a fair amount of good fortune and priviledge, but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. there are degrees of everything, but I think of the simple inner city church fighting to help those in such need. I think that is a great use of religion. something to beleieve in, someone who loves you... and no I do not beleieve in god, or attend church and do beleieve in physics and when I die, I turn to dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabs89 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 If the lyrics perturb you that much, don't listen to the songs. It's not worth getting stressed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofLerxst Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 QUOTE (Sabs89 @ Sep 10 2008, 02:31 PM) If the lyrics perturb you that much, don't listen to the songs. It's not worth getting stressed over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofLerxst Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. What if they turn to stealing and murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabs89 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 QUOTE (DiscipleofLerxst @ Sep 10 2008, 01:44 PM) QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. What if they turn to stealing and murder? In my opinion, turning to any vice shows weakness in character. (I would call religion a vice, but that's just me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karena Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Back then he was sassy, though I could be personally offended my much of what he had to say and how he expressed it, I kind of liked it. Now in place of Freewill, you have Faithless. Eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewb93 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 QUOTE (Sabs89 @ Sep 10 2008, 01:45 PM) QUOTE (DiscipleofLerxst @ Sep 10 2008, 01:44 PM) QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. What if they turn to stealing and murder? In my opinion, turning to any vice shows weakness in character. (I would call religion a vice, but that's just me). You say you don't like Neil's "elitist" lyrics. However, you turn around and make a comment like that, calling religion a weakness? Doesn't that make you somewhat of an elitist too, since you're basically saying you're better than religious people because you don't have the aforementioned "weakness?" I could be kinda off here, but that's how I saw it. As for Neil's lyrics, that's more of him saying how people shouldn't surrender their dreams for things they want now, but won't matter in the long run. I don't have a good example, but Neil is saying you shouldn't settle for less if you can help it. I understand circumstances change and things happen, but Neil is saying go for your dreams instead of trivial things ("small desires"). And with Freewill, Neil is just saying don't live life thinking that the odds are stacked up against you. Because if you live with that mindset then the odds really are against you; the only thing is, you put them there yourself. So no they're not elitist, more of a warning to not get "caught in ticking traps" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 note the peason saying weakness was not me, the OP... As for the people saying "then don't listen" - don't be an idiot. How about instead a thoughtful reasoned discussion.... Good point about "small desires" he is not saying don't sell out to live, he is aying don't sell out to get the latest gadget... Agreed frewill is now tempered by the lyrics of faithless...less in your face and sassy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbomb106 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Songs can have many interpretations. If Neil isn't arguing the point (since he wrote them), most of what we say on either side will be pure conjecture. If you choose to find the lyrics elitist, so be it. If you find them pleasant, all the better. It's all what you take out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabs89 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 QUOTE (drewb93 @ Sep 10 2008, 02:56 PM) QUOTE (Sabs89 @ Sep 10 2008, 01:45 PM) QUOTE (DiscipleofLerxst @ Sep 10 2008, 01:44 PM) QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. What if they turn to stealing and murder? In my opinion, turning to any vice shows weakness in character. (I would call religion a vice, but that's just me). You say you don't like Neil's "elitist" lyrics. However, you turn around and make a comment like that, calling religion a weakness? Doesn't that make you somewhat of an elitist too, since you're basically saying you're better than religious people because you don't have the aforementioned "weakness?" I could be kinda off here, but that's how I saw it. As for Neil's lyrics, that's more of him saying how people shouldn't surrender their dreams for things they want now, but won't matter in the long run. I don't have a good example, but Neil is saying you shouldn't settle for less if you can help it. I understand circumstances change and things happen, but Neil is saying go for your dreams instead of trivial things ("small desires"). And with Freewill, Neil is just saying don't live life thinking that the odds are stacked up against you. Because if you live with that mindset then the odds really are against you; the only thing is, you put them there yourself. So no they're not elitist, more of a warning to not get "caught in ticking traps" I didn't call him elitist. Read the posts, ok partner? I was defending Neil. drew's post was well done, and looking at the lyrics in that light, do you still feel that they are elitist? If not, feel free to post more that are bothering you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Slipperman Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 11:27 AM) I know these are hmmm...25 years old, and that the tone has changed over the years, but the following lyrics have recently started to perturbe me. Hey Neil, some of us do get shafted a bit, some of us do need a helping hand, some of us need to get a job just to survive! Subdivisions: Some will sell their dreams for small desires Or lose the race to rats Get caught in ticking traps And start to dream of somewhere To relax their restless flight I didn't sell my dreams for small desires, I put them on hold to survive, but it kind of says if you don't live your dream, you are a sell out... Freewill: There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand, The cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland. All preordained A prisoner in chains A victim of venomous fate. Kicked in the face, You can't pray for a place In heaven's unearthly estate. I have led a pretty good life with a fair amount of good fortune and priviledge, but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. there are degrees of everything, but I think of the simple inner city church fighting to help those in such need. I think that is a great use of religion. something to beleieve in, someone who loves you... and no I do not beleieve in god, or attend church and do beleieve in physics and when I die, I turn to dirt. I have what may be an interesting take on Subdivisions, coming from a suburban background (and I know I'm not the only one): I look at that whole verse as a cautionary tale...it's very easy to get caught up in the day-to-day of life and lose sight of your dreams, especially since lots of people have to work hard for a living doing something they're not necessarily thrilled with, while having their weekend or off-time to pursue their passions. Personally, I hated living in the suburbs. We live in an apartment in the city (more or less) now and I love it. So when Ged sings Neil's words about "getting caught in ticking traps" I think of my 9-5. I didn't "sell my dreams for small desires", because I am still pursuing my dreams, but a fella's gotta eat, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamneth08 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I thought Subdivisions was just about a Geek who couldn't get laid and played video games instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 QUOTE (Mystic Slipperman @ Sep 10 2008, 04:45 PM) QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 11:27 AM) I know these are hmmm...25 years old, and that the tone has changed over the years, but the following lyrics have recently started to perturbe me. Hey Neil, some of us do get shafted a bit, some of us do need a helping hand, some of us need to get a job just to survive! Subdivisions: Some will sell their dreams for small desires Or lose the race to rats Get caught in ticking traps And start to dream of somewhere To relax their restless flight I didn't sell my dreams for small desires, I put them on hold to survive, but it kind of says if you don't live your dream, you are a sell out... Freewill: There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand, The cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland. All preordained A prisoner in chains A victim of venomous fate. Kicked in the face, You can't pray for a place In heaven's unearthly estate. I have led a pretty good life with a fair amount of good fortune and priviledge, but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. there are degrees of everything, but I think of the simple inner city church fighting to help those in such need. I think that is a great use of religion. something to beleieve in, someone who loves you... and no I do not beleieve in god, or attend church and do beleieve in physics and when I die, I turn to dirt. I have what may be an interesting take on Subdivisions, coming from a suburban background (and I know I'm not the only one): I look at that whole verse as a cautionary tale...it's very easy to get caught up in the day-to-day of life and lose sight of your dreams, especially since lots of people have to work hard for a living doing something they're not necessarily thrilled with, while having their weekend or off-time to pursue their passions. Personally, I hated living in the suburbs. We live in an apartment in the city (more or less) now and I love it. So when Ged sings Neil's words about "getting caught in ticking traps" I think of my 9-5. I didn't "sell my dreams for small desires", because I am still pursuing my dreams, but a fella's gotta eat, you know? That's a pretty good view on it. I'd have to say I'm turning back after living in the city area for 15 years. Grew up in the suburbs, moved to the city, lived here for 15 years, and I've grown to dislike it after 10 years, and ready to move again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushfanNlv Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Did Lee Squat? Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 QUOTE (drewb93 @ Sep 10 2008, 02:56 PM) QUOTE (Sabs89 @ Sep 10 2008, 01:45 PM) QUOTE (DiscipleofLerxst @ Sep 10 2008, 01:44 PM) QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. What if they turn to stealing and murder? In my opinion, turning to any vice shows weakness in character. (I would call religion a vice, but that's just me). You say you don't like Neil's "elitist" lyrics. However, you turn around and make a comment like that, calling religion a weakness? Doesn't that make you somewhat of an elitist too, since you're basically saying you're better than religious people because you don't have the aforementioned "weakness?" I could be kinda off here, but that's how I saw it. As for Neil's lyrics, that's more of him saying how people shouldn't surrender their dreams for things they want now, but won't matter in the long run. I don't have a good example, but Neil is saying you shouldn't settle for less if you can help it. I understand circumstances change and things happen, but Neil is saying go for your dreams instead of trivial things ("small desires"). And with Freewill, Neil is just saying don't live life thinking that the odds are stacked up against you. Because if you live with that mindset then the odds really are against you; the only thing is, you put them there yourself. So no they're not elitist, more of a warning to not get "caught in ticking traps" Couldn't have said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReRushed Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I never thought of Neil Peart as an elitist. Does he think he's smarter than he is? Probably. As do most of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Catkin Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 QUOTE (DiscipleofLerxst @ Sep 10 2008, 01:44 PM) QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. What if they turn to stealing and murder? wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Catkin Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalorian Hunter Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 QUOTE (Sabs89 @ Sep 10 2008, 09:18 PM) QUOTE (drewb93 @ Sep 10 2008, 02:56 PM) QUOTE (Sabs89 @ Sep 10 2008, 01:45 PM) QUOTE (DiscipleofLerxst @ Sep 10 2008, 01:44 PM) QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. What if they turn to stealing and murder? In my opinion, turning to any vice shows weakness in character. (I would call religion a vice, but that's just me). You say you don't like Neil's "elitist" lyrics. However, you turn around and make a comment like that, calling religion a weakness? Doesn't that make you somewhat of an elitist too, since you're basically saying you're better than religious people because you don't have the aforementioned "weakness?" I could be kinda off here, but that's how I saw it. As for Neil's lyrics, that's more of him saying how people shouldn't surrender their dreams for things they want now, but won't matter in the long run. I don't have a good example, but Neil is saying you shouldn't settle for less if you can help it. I understand circumstances change and things happen, but Neil is saying go for your dreams instead of trivial things ("small desires"). And with Freewill, Neil is just saying don't live life thinking that the odds are stacked up against you. Because if you live with that mindset then the odds really are against you; the only thing is, you put them there yourself. So no they're not elitist, more of a warning to not get "caught in ticking traps" I didn't call him elitist. Read the posts, ok partner? I was defending Neil. drew's post was well done, and looking at the lyrics in that light, do you still feel that they are elitist? If not, feel free to post more that are bothering you. No, technically you weren't being elitist. But your post was smothered with it. Basically, you were being elitist in all but name. If people rely on religion to get them through life, then more power to them than condescending pricks like you. Everyone has something they believe in. Just because that belief is different to yours, doesn't make them any less of a person than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdownunder Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Song lyrics are like Bible passages, the meaning is often hidden and mysterious, and difficult to translate. Plus, people will use their interpretations to suit their situation and to prove their points. Unless you can sit down with Neil and get into a D&M about the intent behind his lyrics, you'll never truly understand what he's trying to say. That's when our own interpretations come into play, and we have to make of it what we will. If you have a problem with what you think Neil is saying, then you have a problem with your own interpretation. Also, Neils lyrics - as well as many other artists - aren't black and white. For instance, the line from 'Subdivisions'... Or lose the race to rats Do you think that Neil actually implied a physical foot race with a rodent? Of course not. It's interpretation. So if you don't agree with what you believe Neil is saying, maybe you could think of things a different way? Theres no need to over-analyse song lyrics. Take what you can from them, enjoy them, learn from them, and if you don't understand them, just listen to the music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) Subdivisions: Some will sell their dreams for small desires Or lose the race to rats Get caught in ticking traps And start to dream of somewhere To relax their restless flight Freewill: There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand, The cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland. All preordained A prisoner in chains A victim of venomous fate. Kicked in the face, You can't pray for a place In heaven's unearthly estate. First, I highly suggest that you take another class in physics because it is real. These lyrics aren't addressed to you or even about you so you really can't object to his words as they compare to your life. Subdivisions: Don;t see a problem here. Many people live miserable lives in order to obtain trivial material items they don;t need. Many are in the rat race dreaming of that lotto win, a vacation, retirement, etc... Not necessarily you or me, but some people.... Freewill is not an anti-religion or pro-religion song. It's about how you view the world. Do you blame all of your problems on superstition in ignorance or do you do the best you can realizing that your choices are yours to make, right or wrong, with you taking full responsibilty. I don't see any elitism here. Plus, authors sometimes write in a voice other than their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewb93 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 03:16 PM) note the peason saying weakness was not me, the OP... As for the people saying "then don't listen" - don't be an idiot. How about instead a thoughtful reasoned discussion.... Good point about "small desires" he is not saying don't sell out to live, he is aying don't sell out to get the latest gadget... Agreed frewill is now tempered by the lyrics of faithless...less in your face and sassy... Oh wow you're right I wasn't reading there ... my bad, I apologize. I still stand by what I said in the second part of my post, regarding Neil's lyrics, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewb93 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 QUOTE (Sabs89 @ Sep 10 2008, 04:18 PM) QUOTE (drewb93 @ Sep 10 2008, 02:56 PM) QUOTE (Sabs89 @ Sep 10 2008, 01:45 PM) QUOTE (DiscipleofLerxst @ Sep 10 2008, 01:44 PM) QUOTE (djb @ Sep 10 2008, 02:27 PM) but some are kicked in the face some are delt a loosing hand, and if they turn to something to help therm through, then I say go ahead. What if they turn to stealing and murder? In my opinion, turning to any vice shows weakness in character. (I would call religion a vice, but that's just me). You say you don't like Neil's "elitist" lyrics. However, you turn around and make a comment like that, calling religion a weakness? Doesn't that make you somewhat of an elitist too, since you're basically saying you're better than religious people because you don't have the aforementioned "weakness?" I could be kinda off here, but that's how I saw it. As for Neil's lyrics, that's more of him saying how people shouldn't surrender their dreams for things they want now, but won't matter in the long run. I don't have a good example, but Neil is saying you shouldn't settle for less if you can help it. I understand circumstances change and things happen, but Neil is saying go for your dreams instead of trivial things ("small desires"). And with Freewill, Neil is just saying don't live life thinking that the odds are stacked up against you. Because if you live with that mindset then the odds really are against you; the only thing is, you put them there yourself. So no they're not elitist, more of a warning to not get "caught in ticking traps" I didn't call him elitist. Read the posts, ok partner? I was defending Neil. drew's post was well done, and looking at the lyrics in that light, do you still feel that they are elitist? If not, feel free to post more that are bothering you. Again, my bad, Sabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 People's points of view do change with time. Both 'Freewill' and 'Subdivisions' are over two decades old. Chances are Neil has some different perspectives on the lyrics of both songs, although he probably hasn't done a complete 180. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushfanNlv Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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