New_World_Man Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. Why can't a band do more than one style? Bands change and evolve. It's like when people say Rush or Genesis were prog. Sure they were but they did other stuff too and their music falls into other categories also. Most of the albums by Rush and Genesis in the eighties weren't true prog either. I know some people have a hard time with it when their favorite bands try different styles but that's just the way it was. The eighties and even beyond were tough times for prog bands and they had to change and adapt and try new things. Some of them returned to prog but some didn't. Edited February 7, 2019 by New_World_Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_World_Man Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. In what way is 90125(or Asia) a prog rock album? Just because Yes did it? Is "No jacket required" a prog album too because Phil Collins did it and he was in Genesis? Sure they had prog elements but so do a lot of pop albums and other albums that aren't pure prog. Those qualities would be long songs, long instrumental passages, complexity(odd time signatures), stuff that goes beyond basic songs. All I hear on 90125 for the most part is just basic songs. Nothing to really qualify it as prog or progressive imo. Again other than the pedigree of the musicians what makes these albums prog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segue Myles Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. In what way is 90125(or Asia) a prog rock album? Just because Yes did it? Is "No jacket required" a prog album too because Phil Collins did it and he was in Genesis? Sure they had prog elements but so do a lot of pop albums and other albums that aren't pure prog. Those qualities would be long songs, long instrumental passages, complexity(odd time signatures), stuff that goes beyond basic songs. All I hear on 90125 for the most part is just basic songs. Nothing to really qualify it as prog or progressive imo. Again other than the pedigree of the musicians what makes these albums prog? This. Bands like Toto were doing complex pop a lot more impressively than Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. In what way is 90125(or Asia) a prog rock album? Just because Yes did it? Is "No jacket required" a prog album too because Phil Collins did it and he was in Genesis? Sure they had prog elements but so do a lot of pop albums and other albums that aren't pure prog. Those qualities would be long songs, long instrumental passages, complexity(odd time signatures), stuff that goes beyond basic songs. All I hear on 90125 for the most part is just basic songs. Nothing to really qualify it as prog or progressive imo. Again other than the pedigree of the musicians what makes these albums prog? But the songs on 90125 go way past the simplicity standards of other pop rock albums of the time. The whole album is tinged with prog elements. A few odd times tossed in, some complex riffs and passages, unusual keyboard and guitar tones and strange percussion plus an a cappella section opening one song, a number of non-traditional song structures. They're pop songs through and through, but they're progressive rock in their execution. Thus, prog-pop. Rick N Backer was right to compare 90125 to Reckless. 90125 is very progressive sitting next to that album (which is also a great pop rock record). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. In what way is 90125(or Asia) a prog rock album? Just because Yes did it? Is "No jacket required" a prog album too because Phil Collins did it and he was in Genesis? Sure they had prog elements but so do a lot of pop albums and other albums that aren't pure prog. Those qualities would be long songs, long instrumental passages, complexity(odd time signatures), stuff that goes beyond basic songs. All I hear on 90125 for the most part is just basic songs. Nothing to really qualify it as prog or progressive imo. Again other than the pedigree of the musicians what makes these albums prog? 90125 doesn't have long songs, but Yes had songs that weren't full album sides before that album, so that can't be a necessary element, can it? It does have odd time signatures, vocal complexity as well as musical complexity. They're a progressive band, and that quality comes through even if they're not playing a 20 minute song that has parts numbered "i" and "ii." Would you say that Roundabout is not progressive song? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. In what way is 90125(or Asia) a prog rock album? Just because Yes did it? Is "No jacket required" a prog album too because Phil Collins did it and he was in Genesis? Sure they had prog elements but so do a lot of pop albums and other albums that aren't pure prog. Those qualities would be long songs, long instrumental passages, complexity(odd time signatures), stuff that goes beyond basic songs. All I hear on 90125 for the most part is just basic songs. Nothing to really qualify it as prog or progressive imo. Again other than the pedigree of the musicians what makes these albums prog? This. Bands like Toto were doing complex pop a lot more impressively than Yes. But the argument isn't about who's doing complex pop songs the best. It's whether or not we can define albums like 90125 or Big Generator as prog. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Also Hold On has a prog influenced a cappella midsection not unlike that of Starship Trooper (just much shorter). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 95. Steve Hackett - At The Edge Of Light my copy paste isn't working, so if someone wants to get the full list back and add the few new entries I'd be grateful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_World_Man Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Well, you guys have a different definition of prog than I do. I don't see 90125 as being any more a prog rock album than Journey's "escape" or "frontiers" albums or early 80's Styx or even "signals" which imo is probably more prog if anything than 90125 but most only go up to MP for Rush for proginess. Anyway, I suppose I just have a different definition of what makes something prog than you guys do. I'm not saying there's no prog influences of course just that over all I consider 90125 a pop rock album or prog pop rock at the very most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_World_Man Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 96. King Crimson - Larks Tongues in Aspic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Well, you guys have a different definition of prog than I do. I don't see 90125 as being any more a prog rock album than Journey's "escape" or "frontiers" albums or early 80's Styx or even "signals" which imo is probably more prog if anything than 90125 but most only go up to MP for Rush for proginess. Anyway, I suppose I just have a different definition of what makes something prog than you guys do. I'm not saying there's no prog influences of course just that over all I consider 90125 a pop rock album or prog pop rock at the very most. Yeah, we seem to be disagreeing about the general concept of prog. Imo, Rush's first not prog album was either Presto or RTB. But I understand arguments that end before GuP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_World_Man Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) I know what prog is or at least I understand the typical definition of the genre(if there is such a thing). However, the definition of prog might be more flexible these days than what is used to be. I've been into prog for a long time and my opinion is based more on what is traditionally considered prog. If you look on progarchives they have a whole category called "crossover prog" which includes bands who do a lot more song oriented material and not just the typical long form prog stuff(although most probably do at least some of that but it might not make up the majority of their material). A lot of this stuff is more contemporary sounding. It's what I personally might refer to as semi prog. Anyway, 90125 would imo fall under the crossover prog section these days. That label is rather new though so it refers to mostly newer bands or bands who have always included more pop elements into their sound. Anyway, I really don't have any more to say on the subject and would rather get back to the list. Edited February 7, 2019 by New_World_Man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Well, you guys have a different definition of prog than I do. I don't see 90125 as being any more a prog rock album than Journey's "escape" or "frontiers" albums or early 80's Styx or even "signals" which imo is probably more prog if anything than 90125 but most only go up to MP for Rush for proginess. Anyway, I suppose I just have a different definition of what makes something prog than you guys do. I'm not saying there's no prog influences of course just that over all I consider 90125 a pop rock album or prog pop rock at the very most. Yeah, we seem to be disagreeing about the general concept of prog. Imo, Rush's first not prog album was either Presto or RTB. But I understand arguments that end before GuP. I don't think we're going to be able to reach agreement. I think for many people "prog" is synonymous with music that gets called "challenging," and has to "grow on you." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_World_Man Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) Yep, I don't really hear anything on 90125 as "challenging" or "has to grow" on you. Sure, some of it was inventive but so were Queen and so were a lot of things that aren't typically considered prog including but not limited to new wave, post punk and other stuff I'm probably leaving off. I actually think it's a bit more complicated than just "challenging" and "has to grow on you" but as you suggest we should probably just agree to disagree on this. ;) Edited February 7, 2019 by New_World_Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segue Myles Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. In what way is 90125(or Asia) a prog rock album? Just because Yes did it? Is "No jacket required" a prog album too because Phil Collins did it and he was in Genesis? Sure they had prog elements but so do a lot of pop albums and other albums that aren't pure prog. Those qualities would be long songs, long instrumental passages, complexity(odd time signatures), stuff that goes beyond basic songs. All I hear on 90125 for the most part is just basic songs. Nothing to really qualify it as prog or progressive imo. Again other than the pedigree of the musicians what makes these albums prog? This. Bands like Toto were doing complex pop a lot more impressively than Yes. But the argument isn't about who's doing complex pop songs the best. It's whether or not we can define albums like 90125 or Big Generator as prog. This album is no less prog than Toto IV or Hydra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segue Myles Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 90215 is about as challenging as frying an egg on a car bonnet in a heatwave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. In what way is 90125(or Asia) a prog rock album? Just because Yes did it? Is "No jacket required" a prog album too because Phil Collins did it and he was in Genesis? Sure they had prog elements but so do a lot of pop albums and other albums that aren't pure prog. Those qualities would be long songs, long instrumental passages, complexity(odd time signatures), stuff that goes beyond basic songs. All I hear on 90125 for the most part is just basic songs. Nothing to really qualify it as prog or progressive imo. Again other than the pedigree of the musicians what makes these albums prog? This. Bands like Toto were doing complex pop a lot more impressively than Yes. But the argument isn't about who's doing complex pop songs the best. It's whether or not we can define albums like 90125 or Big Generator as prog. This album is no less prog than Toto IV or Hydra. I’ll give you Hydra, but idk about Toto IV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 90215 is about as challenging as frying an egg on a car bonnet in a heatwave. No, it isn't. But it's a progressive rock album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 90125 is not a prog album because it doesn't have the qualities that make an album prog just like the first Asia album doesn't. There's prog moments but aside from one or two tracks it's mostly a pop rock album same thing with Asia. Also, to put Yes in a box and say they were only a prog rock band isn't very accurate either. What are those "qualities?" 90125 is not a pop rock album like, say, Reckless. It's a progressive rock album that is much more accessible than Yes' earlier albums. Asia is a progressive rock album too, but is similarly accessible. They are both still progressive rock albums. In what way is 90125(or Asia) a prog rock album? Just because Yes did it? Is "No jacket required" a prog album too because Phil Collins did it and he was in Genesis? Sure they had prog elements but so do a lot of pop albums and other albums that aren't pure prog. Those qualities would be long songs, long instrumental passages, complexity(odd time signatures), stuff that goes beyond basic songs. All I hear on 90125 for the most part is just basic songs. Nothing to really qualify it as prog or progressive imo. Again other than the pedigree of the musicians what makes these albums prog? This. Bands like Toto were doing complex pop a lot more impressively than Yes. But the argument isn't about who's doing complex pop songs the best. It's whether or not we can define albums like 90125 or Big Generator as prog. This album is no less prog than Toto IV or Hydra. I’ll give you Hydra, but idk about Toto IV. It's funny. Outside this subforum, I don't believe I've heard anyone even mention that band in 30+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 94. w.a.s.p. - the last command elements of jazz, latin, psychedelia, bossa nova, and more are combined in this eclectic and experimental tour de force. revered and regarded as an inspiration by the likes of radiohead, bjork, and countless others, it's hard to think of an album so ahead of its time yet so out of place in the world with its bold, forward-thinking fearlessness. lyrics that address social isolation, the plight of workers under reagan, the meaningless nature of the capitalist rat race, and the iran contra scandal serve to add even more layers of depth to an album already referred to by critics as the sgt pepper of the hair metal era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_World_Man Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 90215 is about as challenging as frying an egg on a car bonnet in a heatwave. No, it isn't. But it's a progressive rock album. Edited February 8, 2019 by New_World_Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_World_Man Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) [This album is no less prog than Toto IV or Hydra.] That was the point I was trying to make although I think you meant to say "no more prog than Toto IV or Hyrda." Anyway, yes if we say 90125 is prog then it opens up the floodgates where we have to say not only Toto but all of Steely Dan is prog, all of the later Genesis, all of Styx, later Journey, Tears for Fears and pretty much any arty band or any pop rock band with SOME prog elements or influences and it gets to be a bit ridiculous. Lot's of bands had prog elements but it doesn't make them prog. I think people want 90125 to be prog just because they are generally considered to be a prog band and can't fathom them doing a non prog album. The fact is for that record they started out as Cinema and just added Jon at the last minute(more or less) so their intention wasn't even to become Yes in the first place. Edited February 8, 2019 by New_World_Man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_World_Man Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 94. w.a.s.p. - the last command elements of jazz, latin, psychedelia, bossa nova, and more are combined in this eclectic and experimental tour de force. revered and regarded as an inspiration by the likes of radiohead, bjork, and countless others, it's hard to think of an album so ahead of its time yet so out of place in the world with its bold, forward-thinking fearlessness. lyrics that address social isolation, the plight of workers under reagan, the meaningless nature of the capitalist rat race, and the iran contra scandal serve to add even more layers of depth to an album already referred to by critics as the sgt pepper of the hair metal era That would be number 97 actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segue Myles Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 [This album is no less prog than Toto IV or Hydra.] That was the point I was trying to make although I think you meant to say "no more prog than Toto IV or Hyrda." Anyway, yes if we say 90125 is prog then it opens up the floodgates where we have to say not only Toto but all of Steely Dan is prog, all of the later Genesis, all of Styx, later Journey, Tears for Fears and pretty much any arty band or any pop rock band with SOME prog elements or influences and it gets to be a bit ridiculous. Lot's of bands had prog elements but it doesn't make them prog. I think people want 90125 to be prog just because they are generally considered to be a prog band and can't fathom them doing a non prog album. The fact is for that record they started out as Cinema and just added Jon at the last minute(more or less) so their intention wasn't even to become Yes in the first place. Exactly my point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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