GabesCavesOfIce

Prog rock high horse...you folks gotta stop making me spit out my water! Glad you see a little RTB light. Got a little confused reading the older thread, but got me thinking why I like the tune, so let's give it a go...The albums not in my top 10, it ain't H, but some songs are decent. Regarding the song, I was going to say- Excellent Lifeson riffing in the opening. Great bass playing and sound. Song recording is crisp. The keys are segregated and not brick walling. (On CA, the keys are all over the place, drowning out our beloved power trio, for example). Great crescendo dynamic. Fun lyrics. Short, but great guitar solo, yes...it leads into the rap. This was the tail end of Alex' dynamic soloing (how did Grohl put it?) Also, One of Neil's best lines- Fate is just the weight of circumstances See, I had to get the big H in there!

Chuck was sloppy, he allowed Jimmy to use his HHM code to access case law. Hamlin will use that to screw him, just like he did at his celebratory cake. How awesome was that scene? “You can’t say it’s private if a hobo can use it as a wigwam! —That’s the standard, right, if animals or vagrants can get in?

It'd be nice, but the upper bowlers are already paying $75 per. At $125, no one would buy the nose bleeds.

Her pals had no idea she was a teen icon. Kinda like The Hips rock icon status in Canada, but not well known in the states.

Segue, my comments were more to the surprise that a legendary drummer would have such a tough time with Tuco. Honestly never saw his name mentioned in the media before aboot being a top drummer. Music is an awesome inspiration. If you choose pop music, that's great for you!

<p> Ever consider the possibility any "vagueness" might simply be because *they themselves* don't exactly know what their future holds? All they know is that at this moment right now, they DO NOT BELIEVE they'll ever commit to as many as 35 dates for a single tour again. And that's EXACTLY what they're telling us. They're giving us all the honesty they can for the moment. Sure, there are some bands who might dangle a "this magnitude" carrot to get more people to cough up now, but no way is Rush one of them. They don't need a few extra bucks and they don't owe us jack. They could've easily stopped and walked away 10 years ago after R30. We all knew there would come a day when they wouldn't be able to crank out 3-hour shows anymore and they're telling us that that time is almost here. And they also know that if they would've waited until AFTER the tour to say "no more of that magnitude", the people that didn't go would've whined 'Why didn't you tell us???'. Basically, they are trying to break up with us gradually. ;) And my theory as to why tickets have been flying so fast is because they've announced this is an ANNIVERSARY tour. People who only want oldies have noticed there will be NO new material that they'll have to sit through and so the show will likely be only hits and deep cuts. And there are a LOT of those oldies-only folks out there! With the exception of two tours ago, which was also a 'greatest hits' tour. And a few before that, R30 also greatest hits...well, plus feedback. TM did better business than CA, but no where near R40. The magnitude comments have altered the demand dynamic here, which is my basic point. Ive considered ALOT about the magnitude comments, and am replying strictly on a comment that they were honest. I also said it was not dishonest, but part of honesty is clarity, and the magnitude comment is not clear. They could easily added Rays Juno comment initially, but that could have held back demand. Hey, I'm happy they did it,cuz MSG and the Pru will be packed with Rush fans, but it's having an impact on demand I haven't seen in 20 years here.And your use of "that's EXACTLY what they are telling us" I recall absolutely NO details such as those you cite before tix went on sale, on the original press release, before they have been asked a zillion times what the heck did that mean by the media.Its not just me saying, every major interview with the band, TMS, Q107, Ray at the Junos, the media has also been asking what the heck did that press release mean. With subsequent interviews, we have a little more info, but this is all after tix were sold out in many markets.

NEP in a photo finish. Tuco almost closed the gap at the end. Mondale wishes he got 48%

There's a difference between accepting reality and suggesting it is fair. As for the re-selling. Here's the thing... there are multiple presales for concerts these days. Usually the very first presale is sponsored by a bank/credit card (AMEX, Citi, etc.). People with those cards get early access to the tickets (by way of using their card for the purchase). And, yes, some of those people buy them and turn around and sell them for a profit. Some ticket brokers do this, as well. But I can guarantee you that many of those resellers were average run-of-the-mill consumers. If any consumer wants to have truly early access to concert tickets, they likely should have a couple of the key cards that are most often used (again, Amex and Citi are the two most common). If someone has an aversion to those cards or prefers not to use credit cards for those purchases, I get that. I even respect that. But I also understand it is a choice. The second presale is usually for fan clubs or LiveNation, etc. account holders. At a minimum, then, have a LiveNation account and click to accept their promotional emails when signing up. It's a pain to have to filter through their daily, seriously daily, concert notices, but you at least get the presale codes. And this is after the venue, sponsors, promoters, etc. have all reserved their blocks. By the time you get to the actual sale, it is entirely possible that only 1/3 of the venue space remains. If you go old school and try to buy at the venue, you are toast. Is this fair? No. Not really. Is it reality? Yes. Here's the other realities.... Reality two... Eddie Vedder/Pearl Jam, along with Garth Brooks and a few other artists tried to take on this system about 20 years ago and failed. If the biggest acts in music at that time couldn't win, are we going to change it? Reality three.... venue scarcity effects all of this as there are fewer and fewer places to play and those places have signed on to contracts with Ticketmaster/LiveNation, etc. Reality four... the market factors have changed drastically in the past quarter century. Concerts are now the key money maker for artists and their support staff. Yes, it's capitalism. No, capitalism is not built on a construct of fair. It is built on a construct of supply and demand. Supply is limited. Demand is high. Caveat emptor. I agree, but would say, supply is manipulated, demand is manipulated. Adam Smith would argue whether it's free market capitalism, but it is our system and we are stuck with it.

Bastille Day. Best opener ever. ATWAS!

My only intent was to present the other side about free market economics in the concert industry. Rush deserves a premium price, my belief is that a true free market would look much different. What bands like Rush do is give full power to the promoters, for a large up front fee. Promoters play the scalping game and supply/demand games. There are artists that don't do it this way, don't let the promoters have all the power, Pearl Jam being the best example, bucking the system since they were newbies. Bruce also takes steps to create more of a fair market. A specific example on this tour is the lack of side/ rear diagonal seats, thousands of them, have not been released in the NYC area, which is the exact opposite of what Rush did in their concert selling heyday. We can see the line today of what is not available to the market today and easily recall how far back fans used to sit in their heyday. These seats may likely be released, but holding them back now is manufacturing price and limiting supply, which has an irreversible effect on those that have already bought secondary tickets. Their quickest sell outs in 20 years (which is very exciting). But the specific supply limitation here is obvious. There are more factors at work here as we'll. Yes this work has the invisible hand of the promoters, but the band's name appears on the ticket/no tickets currently available from the venue page. Everyone always quotes Bruce or Pearl Jam in citing this practice. It's a solid practice. But most artists, it's outta their hands, and they just run with it, they make money, they know the game, they lament it, but in the end, they're doing the best they can. I'm not sure expecting Rush to control every aspect of tens of thousands of tickets is a reasonable expectation. Not in today's music biz, and not in today's markets. Best they Can, excellent! I didn't intend to blame Rush regarding holding back the rear seats they used to sell back in the easy sellout days. That's the work of the promoter, protecting their investment and keeping prices high. I'm just citing influences on market forces at work here, demonstrating it's not free market economics. Citing Pearl Jam is an example of bands that chose a different path to operate the market differently. They still have high prices and limited supply, but they work hard trying to make it fair to their loyal fans. I'm not sure payin $40 every year to be a member is a great deal for the chance at far away seats, but they are making an effort. Regarding ticket explosion, the two sell outs in the NYC area have been the quickest in 20 years. TM was a solid sellout at MSG, but that took a lot of time and promo. But many non sell outs. CA did not sell well. this year there was an obvious difference. many of the venues are sold out. Fast. As a comparison, check out the CA last tour stats. CA was a far cry from what we are seeing on R40, which is terrific. Magnitude has made a difference, I am happy about it, I want the joint rockin, just citing that as a market influence.

quote- I disagree that telling the fan base this is the last tour of this magnitude is toying with emotions. Actually, it's just being honest. ----- Except they didn't tell us what that exactly means. Part of honesty is clarity. I would not say there is dishonesty here, but I'd stop short of calling it honest. Their vagueness has led to an explosion in ticket sales and unit cost and has manipulated the "free" market, in concert with many other factors. Good for them, I'm a fan.

What a load of hysterical shit. I wouldn't have expected anything else from you. post something funny...you need to unwind dude I wouldn't begrudge anyone else for choosing different than me, it's their own Freewill of course, but... To be able to see the same band after all these years, the same three amazing musicians is an unreal blessing that no other entertainment compares to. Sports teams- their players completely turn over every ten years, and even the stadiums/arenas we grew up in supporting our favorite teams are gone in most cases. TV shows come and go, well there's always The Simpsons.,. Sure the singing may be a little different, But Rush, I look at them at shows and it's the same dudes I rocked with 34 years ago. How awesome is that!

Lump sum in advance from my understanding speaking with industry insiders over the years. I recall being close to my college concert group, that brought one serious act a year to campus. They had lists. Rush was on it for a little over $100k back in the day. Some buck the system to create a more favorable market for fans, like pearl jam the discussion was not whether Rush cares, but it was just assumed here the concert market operates freely. Above I have a few posts providing many examples that it is not a free market.

Sinbad, Sweet Leafson, this is gold Jerry, gold!

What's that? Tuco on the drums? Next you're telling me Walter Whites playing bass?

What was that,Sinbad is opening for Sweet Leafson starring LL Cool Ged in 2017?

My only intent was to present the other side about free market economics in the concert industry. Rush deserves a premium price, my belief is that a true free market would look much different. What bands like Rush do is give full power to the promoters, for a large up front fee. Promoters play the scalping game and supply/demand games. There are artists that don't do it this way, don't let the promoters have all the power, Pearl Jam being the best example, bucking the system since they were newbies. Bruce also takes steps to create more of a fair market. A specific example on this tour is the lack of side/ rear diagonal seats, thousands of them, have not been released in the NYC area, which is the exact opposite of what Rush did in their concert selling heyday. We can see the line today of what is not available to the market today and easily recall how far back fans used to sit in their heyday. These seats may likely be released, but holding them back now is manufacturing price and limiting supply, which has an irreversible effect on those that have already bought secondary tickets. Their quickest sell outs in 20 years (which is very exciting). But the specific supply limitation here is obvious. There are more factors at work here as we'll. Yes this work has the invisible hand of the promoters, but the band's name appears on the ticket/no tickets currently available from the venue page.

Carnies closing first set makes it absolutely legit. A gift for fans needing an early jump on intermission. ;-)

This is pretty much true of all things in life. In a free market system, complaining about prices of anything is silly. Would any person on this forum post a complaint that they can't afford to buy a 2015 Corvette Z06, which costs nearly $80K base? Would they argue it's not fair that every person who loves Corvettes can't afford to buy the latest version of their favorite car? Would they say, "No, but, really, I really, REALLY *LOVE* Corvettes, so this isn't fair"? And, yes, the comparison holds because the Corvette was once relatively affordable. I will use the 1971 Stingray as an example. It's base price new was about $5,500. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $30K in today's dollars. So, back in 1971, a prime model Corvette was affordable for most who really wanted it, but today it runs near $80K ($50K more in actual dollars than what it cost 4 decades ago) and is now only affordable for a small portion of the population, or for people who make some really bad financial decisions. The reasons? Popularity. Market forces. Changes in the methodology for buying and selling vehicles. Customer willingness to pay the price. Does that sound familiar? It should. But just as there are still people buying Rush tickets at these prices, GM/Chevy is still selling Corvettes. It doesn't matter if it is fair. Nothing is "fair" in a free market structure. I agree there is a right to a free market, but there are also different forces at play here. I agree Rush needed to wake up its fan base after lower ticket sales on CA. But to drive up demand by playing with emotions of this magnitude, that's much different than a luxury auto. They have every right to say whatever they want. They should have said something, if they have a true guess as to their future, but they didn't need to cloak it in mystery. What Danniels said at the Junos was fair, that they expect to not hit the secondary markets anymore, some detail like that could have been part of the original press release. If they don't know their future, then why say anything. To drive up prices? I don't agree with that, but I see it as plausible here. But it's how this industry works that proves it's not free market. Manipulated demand and manipulated supply is not free market. Full disclosure, I luckily got good seats at a fair price. A free market for rock concerts would entail EVERY seat be sold in the open, at a stated price. If that price is $5k for a front row seat, so be it. Rush deserves that. But no freebies for industry. Prices would move freely, well before show date based on actually buying. Not stay static in price like they do now. No premium seats in the trash cuz they couldn't get that $5k. No freebies to limit supply. That's all manipulating price, hence not free market. The way this industry manipulates supply and hides pricing and hides supply, it's a zillion miles from free market.

Thanks, forgot about this! Always fun to watch Vince act.

Challenge accepted (HIMYM catch phrase) This should work, anything longer is removed by the content owners. Got the blurb from rushisaband,thanks Ed. It's a fake documentary about Robin... Geddy also says, "That day is now known in music history as the day that grunge was born" in relation to the day that Robin Sparkles lost it on stage. And he also says "Halifax, Nova Scotia - Walnut Crunch" in reference to being asked about the place and type of donut he was eating at Tim Horton's at the time she lost it.

Rush will be back. Just not of this magnitude. Unusual location for final Sabbath shows. Great country, but say goodbye to the home crowd, either UK or US. Still no US dates announced.

Still some great small venue shows out there, but damn, standing still for three hours, rough on the hip, tragic.

Lamb lies down and Selling England were so inspirational for me. What makes Genesis so interesting is similar to Rush, which has the heavy guitar vs keyboard era debates. Gabriel vs Phil is so interesting. But another huge prog rock guy is Hackett. After Gabriel left, they still had a couple terrific prog rock albums, Wind and Trick with Hackett. Some of the post Hackett albums are very good, Duke comes to mind, but to hear prog rock giants start to bad mouth prog genre, that was tough. Some of the Gabriel of that era, Security and Melt, are desert island discs.

Is it really a "shitty" situation? Those that can afford it now can watch the show in comfort while sipping their favorite beverage rather than battling a crowd and having to watch the show pressed between people's sweaty armpits. It's expensive, but it's probably a more enjoyable experience for a lot of folks. If someone wants to watch a show in comfort, they should do it from their living room. The thing is that it's crucial to have crazy, sweaty, energetic people in the front. Those folks have a responsibility to everyone else in the room which is to exchange energy with the artist all night, ideally resulting in a better and more powerful performance for all. Nothing sucks more as a performer than to think the people they are supposed to entertain are bored, but what else can they assume when looking into a crowd everyone they can easily see are sitting in comfort and not really getting into whatever it is they're doing? That's when performances get phoned in and/or cut short. Why do you think some artists will not play to 100% seated rooms and require a standing pit, at the very least? That's horseshit. Just because somebody pays a premium to be up front, doesn't mean they're going to sit on their ass during the show. They have zero responsibility to anybody at the show. I dunno when the last Rush show you attended had a bunch of 'rich boring people' up front doing nothing, but I never have even once witnessed that, and I've been to a lot of Rush gigs. It's GOOD that Rush doesn't do a GA pit. GA pits suck balls. There is no reason at all to assume going to a concert must mean you must be uncomfortable to have a good time. LOL, some of you guys are a little regressive when it comes to concerts. You're not 16 anymore. Deal with it. I agree with both points here, although with less passionate language. Of course Rush has the right to set market prices, but may have gone a little far with magnitude comments, possibly to drive up prices. In the NYC metro area, the 2 sellouts have been the quickest in 20 years. I have been lucky to get tix to each for less than full market value, but still very expensive. Its been a bummer to those without tix that they have not released more side and the almost rear stage seats like they used to in the easy sellout days of 1980 - 1997 here. But, it was a huuuuuge bummer at the CA tour, sitting mid teens center, me and Chad Smith so much wanted the crowd to rock, I swear he was in the row ahead of me. Whether it was the CA mega 80s setlist,or industry types with freebies leaving early, that was by far the quietest Rush crowd and most empty seats I recall in 20 years. And yes, my understanding is Chad recently bought a vaca home not far from here. I thought no way that was him until I read that, he is an LA guy after all. Anyway, huge bummer with such a mellow crowd, although its their right to drive prices up so high the industry gets some freebies that would be thrown out if not used.