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Neil's Drums, R40 LIVE.

Is it just me or???

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#1 Thunder Bay Rush

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 12:10 PM

First, I can barely hear the drums in the mix... is that my TV set up?  Because it's pretty basic... Anyway, they also sound like crap.  The concert toms seem to be tuned too low for one thing.

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#2 EagleMoon

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 07:47 PM

No it's not your TV it's the way it was recorded. I know there's been at least one recent thread about his drums  and this issue came up.  The double bass set was particularly dull sounding.

#3 Thunder Bay Rush

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 04:58 AM

Eagle, wouldn't that have been THE coolest if he had used his old black Slingerland drums (AFTK / Hemisphere era) for that second half of R40?  Those drums had the best live sound, I'd say.  The sound guy used Sennheiser 401s on the bass drums and 409s on the toms and they sounded really good.  On the snare, they (probably) used a simple Shure 57... another great and old school live drum mic.

#4 EagleMoon

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 07:17 PM

View PostThunder Bay Rush, on 22 December 2016 - 04:58 AM, said:

Eagle, wouldn't that have been THE coolest if he had used his old black Slingerland drums (AFTK / Hemisphere era) for that second half of R40?  Those drums had the best live sound, I'd say.  The sound guy used Sennheiser 401s on the bass drums and 409s on the toms and they sounded really good.  On the snare, they (probably) used a simple Shure 57... another great and old school live drum mic.

It would be if he still had it. I think it was really silly to make two entirely new drum sets for a 35 date tour.  The old ones sounded so much better.

#5 Thunder Bay Rush

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 06:44 AM

My favourite live drum sound was from the recording in St. Louis, 1980... not sure of two things though... - One, what drums did he use then, Slingerland or was he on the Tamas at that point?  And, two, why in the hell are there lines and red ink running though my post?  I didn't "touch" any buttons...

#6 Thunder Bay Rush

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 06:16 AM

A guy I know who claims to be the world's number one Neil Peart expert, (stalker, more like it) told me that on the Permanent Waves Tour Neil was using Slingerland drums.  Not sure if I believe that one... if he is correct, they weren't the black ones.  They looked kind of wood coloured brown.  But, they sounded great!!

#7 EagleMoon

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 07:19 AM

I remember hearing about him playing Slingerlands at about that time.

#8 vaportrailer

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 07:57 AM

Didn't he switch over to Tama's around then?


#9 theredtamasrule

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 06:17 PM

View PostThunder Bay Rush, on 08 January 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

A guy I know who claims to be the world's number one Neil Peart expert, (stalker, more like it) told me that on the Permanent Waves Tour Neil was using Slingerland drums.  Not sure if I believe that one... if he is correct, they weren't the black ones.  They looked kind of wood coloured brown.  But, they sounded great!!

Tamas

#10 Phantom

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 06:30 AM

As a live act, Rush is epic. IMO, the sound from the R40 DVD wasn't. In terms of sound quality from live performances, I've always been impressed by the sound on Dave Matthews DVD's...in particular, Carter Beaufords drum sound.

#11 Jaminbenb

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 11:13 AM

View PostThunder Bay Rush, on 08 January 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

A guy I know who claims to be the world's number one Neil Peart expert, (stalker, more like it) told me that on the Permanent Waves Tour Neil was using Slingerland drums.  Not sure if I believe that one... if he is correct, they weren't the black ones.  They looked kind of wood coloured brown.  But, they sounded great!!

If I remember correctly, the black chrome Slingerlands were retired after the Hemispheres tour, and he had the Rosewood Tama's for the PW tour. In fact, I think the promo pictures of them in the studio for the recording of that album had the Tama's...

#12 Mr. JD

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 02:34 PM

I agree.I think overall, the drums could stand to be a little more present in the mix.

They sounded great at the actual show though!

#13 ericmichael1116

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 04:52 PM

Granted I'm no expert on the subject since I've only been to three tours, the R40 drum sets were my favorite sounding drums. I liked how thunderous they were, especially in Jacob's Ladder and Hemispheres.

#14 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 05:16 AM

Tamas, indeed. With that I present the most valuable RUSH resource centre on-line, where you'll find:

27-year-old Neil said:

"I recently became the proud owner of a new set of Tama drums, once again with the inner side of the wooden shells coated with the Vibra-Fibing treatment. Along with the custom finish and the brass-plated metal hardware, this operation was performed by the Percussion centre of Fort Wayne, Indiana. The sizes of the drums remain unchanged..."
http://cygnus-x1.net...manentwaves.php

The hard copy of this is one of the few original RUSH-related things I still have. The only thing missing at the website is the rest of the photos from the recording session of the album.

Here's the page w/ links to all the individual tour info, including Dates, Books, & Set Lists:
http://cygnus-x1.net...sh/tourinfo.php

View PostThunder Bay Rush, on 08 January 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

A guy I know who claims to be the world's number one Neil Peart expert, (stalker, more like it) told me that on the Permanent Waves Tour Neil was using Slingerland drums.  Not sure if I believe that one... if he is correct, they weren't the black ones.  They looked kind of wood coloured brown.  But, they sounded great!!


#15 HalfwayToGone

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 07:43 AM

I'm pretty sure Neil continued using a slingerland snare drum on and off throughout the time he was with Tama (mostly on).  Not sure if he switched while with Ludwig or if it was when he started with DW.

#16 goose

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:59 AM

View Posttheredtamasrule, on 08 January 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

View PostThunder Bay Rush, on 08 January 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

A guy I know who claims to be the world's number one Neil Peart expert, (stalker, more like it) told me that on the Permanent Waves Tour Neil was using Slingerland drums.  Not sure if I believe that one... if he is correct, they weren't the black ones.  They looked kind of wood coloured brown.  But, they sounded great!!

Tamas
Is this the P-waves set?

Posted Image

Posted Image

The Drums of Neil Peart - A History:  http://jam.viewmarke...-peart-history/

Edited by goose, 19 February 2017 - 11:03 AM.


#17 Steve Smith

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Posted Yesterday, 02:30 AM

I am a guitar player not a drummer

Way back in the day in the 80's then plexiglass came on the scene and drummers started to use those kits.

Any drummer here tell me the pro's and cons please??

Cheers

Steve

#18 Ged Lent's sis

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Posted Yesterday, 04:24 AM

View PostSteve Smith, on 23 February 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I am a guitar player not a drummer
Way back in the day in the 80's then plexiglass came on the scene and drummers started to use those kits. Any drummer here tell me the pro's and cons please??
Cheers
Steve

I am pretty sure that the plexiglass was largely about appearance, insofar as it sort of fit the aesthetic of the New Wave era, I think. At any rate, from my personal perspective, the resonance was simply awful, especially versus wood shells.

I really loved Stewart Copeland's Tama Octobons and ended up getting a lousy knock-off acrylic set of four called Tubular Toms at the local music store. No matter how I tuned them they had an annoying ring like a Folger's can. I assume this is because the wooden shells absorb, rather than reflect, that particular timbre, helping to maintain a warmer and deeper tone, even when tuned very high. That said, the regular acrylic drum kits, with backing heads and the like, help improve this somewhat.

Still, acrylic, fiberglass, and chrome just don't sound so great to my ears and, other than appearance, I don't know what the selling point is.

I had to respond to your comment, Steve, because it reminds me of something from my tenuous teenage years: Worse than getting the tube toms was that it led to my making two subsequent trade mistakes around '84-85: Because I had the tubes, I traded my 6-8-10" Rototoms for a crash/ride cymbal (also because I was lacking a good ride). But then, because I realized that the crash-ride wasn't a good ride and an even worse crash, I traded the most unique and beautiful sounding 16" Zildjian crash cymbal for a 22" Zildjian ride, which is a great ride, but then I had no real crash. And I blame it on the toms!

#19 Steve Smith

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Posted Today, 12:15 AM

View PostGed Lent, on 23 February 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

View PostSteve Smith, on 23 February 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I am a guitar player not a drummer
Way back in the day in the 80's then plexiglass came on the scene and drummers started to use those kits. Any drummer here tell me the pro's and cons please??
Cheers
Steve

I am pretty sure that the plexiglass was largely about appearance, insofar as it sort of fit the aesthetic of the New Wave era, I think. At any rate, from my personal perspective, the resonance was simply awful, especially versus wood shells.

I really loved Stewart Copeland's Tama Octobons and ended up getting a lousy knock-off acrylic set of four called Tubular Toms at the local music store. No matter how I tuned them they had an annoying ring like a Folger's can. I assume this is because the wooden shells absorb, rather than reflect, that particular timbre, helping to maintain a warmer and deeper tone, even when tuned very high. That said, the regular acrylic drum kits, with backing heads and the like, help improve this somewhat.

Still, acrylic, fiberglass, and chrome just don't sound so great to my ears and, other than appearance, I don't know what the selling point is.

I had to respond to your comment, Steve, because it reminds me of something from my tenuous teenage years: Worse than getting the tube toms was that it led to my making two subsequent trade mistakes around '84-85: Because I had the tubes, I traded my 6-8-10" Rototoms for a crash/ride cymbal (also because I was lacking a good ride). But then, because I realized that the crash-ride wasn't a good ride and an even worse crash, I traded the most unique and beautiful sounding 16" Zildjian crash cymbal for a 22" Zildjian ride, which is a great ride, but then I had no real crash. And I blame it on the toms!

I hear where you are coming from Ged. I always thought that the Plexi kits had a rather harsh "overtone" to them compared with wooden kits, but at the time I put it down to the way the skins were tuned by the individual. You are right what you say, perhaps about the look? indeed the 80's were kind of a victory of style over substance in every aspect not just music, IMHO

However I did have a Van Halen live video from the 5150 tour and Alex used all Plexi and a huge kit and it sounded pretty good to me, that might have something to do with the live mix and subsequent "re-engineering". Not really a fan of "live" albums anymore, I don't think they capture the sound or the vibe of actually being there in the flesh and it is pretty much a given now that there will be a lot of "post production" going on, so why bother??

One final point if I may - do you remember the "gated snare" technique for the 80's where the snare dynamic was just crudely cut off by a noise gate. It was an awful production technique but allowed the engineer to make the snare sound massively loud without any overspill. But it just sounded horrible horrible, a massive "THWACK" then nothing.

As I say I am not a drummer but I did study music production at college in the 90's and have my own (mostly analogue) home studio. I still use an Alesis SR16, it is still a really nice bit of kit. Also I hate the modern fashion of hard rock bands to have the snare drum tuned very tightly with little or no snare, it sounds harsh and nasty IMHO, but hey again that is just me.

I suppose I am a bit of and old fart really, maybe "old school" would be fairer.

My favourite drum sounds are by my namesake on the Journey - Escape and Frontiers albums - Fabulous!!!!

Kind Regards and thanks for the input from a proper drummer dude :cool:

Steve

#20 Steve Smith

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Posted Today, 02:49 AM

View PostGed Lent, on 23 February 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

View PostSteve Smith, on 23 February 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I am a guitar player not a drummer
Way back in the day in the 80's then plexiglass came on the scene and drummers started to use those kits. Any drummer here tell me the pro's and cons please??
Cheers
Steve

I am pretty sure that the plexiglass was largely about appearance, insofar as it sort of fit the aesthetic of the New Wave era, I think. At any rate, from my personal perspective, the resonance was simply awful, especially versus wood shells.

I really loved Stewart Copeland's Tama Octobons and ended up getting a lousy knock-off acrylic set of four called Tubular Toms at the local music store. No matter how I tuned them they had an annoying ring like a Folger's can. I assume this is because the wooden shells absorb, rather than reflect, that particular timbre, helping to maintain a warmer and deeper tone, even when tuned very high. That said, the regular acrylic drum kits, with backing heads and the like, help improve this somewhat.

Still, acrylic, fiberglass, and chrome just don't sound so great to my ears and, other than appearance, I don't know what the selling point is.

I had to respond to your comment, Steve, because it reminds me of something from my tenuous teenage years: Worse than getting the tube toms was that it led to my making two subsequent trade mistakes around '84-85: Because I had the tubes, I traded my 6-8-10" Rototoms for a crash/ride cymbal (also because I was lacking a good ride). But then, because I realized that the crash-ride wasn't a good ride and an even worse crash, I traded the most unique and beautiful sounding 16" Zildjian crash cymbal for a 22" Zildjian ride, which is a great ride, but then I had no real crash. And I blame it on the toms!

Also John Bonham's sound is legendary. They miked the kit up at the top of a stone staircase then put the ambient mikes at the bottom then mixed the two sounds if you believe the legend.



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