Lucas Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) I am not sure how to even pose this as a question, but I'm just going to improvise a bit here based on some of the things I've been thinking about .. I often mention imagery and visuals when it comes to Rush's best work - the songs that I love are the perfect melding of storytelling lyrics and dynamic instrumentation In other words, GREAT SONGS Somewhere along to road, Rush lost - or abandoned - this ability .. Without putting too much of an emphasis on labels, I think it is safe to say that as time went by, Neil became more and more of a commentator, and less of a creative storyteller .. At this point, he could even be the poster boy for what is thought of as secular humanism, as he no doubt bases his philosophies on reason, and ethics .. Good for Neil - he is transforming and evolving, correct ? ... however, bad for the creative fire and spirit, and especially for the listener who became a part of those great stories and sci-fi epics .. In the song Faithless, the line "I will quietly resist" is mentioned over and over ... But is this a way of basing your life ?? - on resistance ?? .. We return to the philosophy of reason, ethics and naturalism - all very logical and intellectual ( cough cough ) .. It is also all very cold, and dull - Neil, in essence, stripped Rush of everything but concrete reality, and what followed was the same as far as the music .. Neil would dabble in religious overtones often in the 1970s - Jacob's Ladder, for example, is a perfect example ... Something For Nothing is a play off The Lord's Prayer, all while embracing his fascination with Ayn Rand and her philosophies ...... Let's face it - The Bible has some pretty fascinating tales - the imagination and mind are really put into overdrive, whether a person believes or follows what they are reading - it is epic stuff ... Cygnus X1 and Hemispheres are all about rebirth and resurrection ..... Xanadu gives us the last ( and only ) immortal man ... Natural Science is the same, and is loaded with plays on Biblical phrases .. This stuff is fascinating and the music to accompany these grand stories was perfect ... It doesn't matter if the listener was religious or not - what mattered was that the songs made the listener CREATIVE - we created these images in our minds, many thanks to the band .. All of that flew out the window when the band grew up . Edited September 25, 2015 by Lucas 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Interesting post. I still think there is plenty of visual material in a lot of the lyrics - and a lot of encapsulations of historical events and things like that. But, sure, a lot more commentary, which some take to be preachy, rather than giving us a chance to work out the meaning from narrative. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiquark Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Agree. In fact I think Rush themselves said something along those lines. And I'm paraphrasing heavily, but if I recall correctly, they said, "at one point we realized we didn't want to keep writing abstract vague songs, but wanted to start writing about actual things." (Or something to that effect). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 :smoke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Rational thinking constantly forced into art tends to be very sterile I'm just saying that any artist - in this case, Neil, Alex and Geddy - is more interesting when there is an air of mystery and a good chunk of irrational nuttiness Why should there be any interest in art that simply reinforces the viewer or listener's already developed views on rational or ethical positions ?? The fact that Rush used the Biblical story of Jacob's Ladder as a springboard for one of their greatest accomplishments kinda says it all .. http://www.artble.com/imgs/9/d/f/424815/jacob_s_dream.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) And I also happen to love the debut album - but that is inspired in a different way Testosterone and youthful spirit can take also rock and roll a long way . . Edited September 25, 2015 by Lucas 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Lucas, Clockwork Angels is the perfect example of a story. It IS a story...so much so that there's a book. Whether we like the story or not is another, um...story. Like most folks here, I prefer 1970s Rush over 21st century Rush. However, if Peart had kept churning out those lyrical themes, I likely would've felt sorry for them. I don't want to hear 60 year old Geddy sing about Cygnus X-1 Book 37 or By-Tor & The Snowdog Returns again and again. That dog should be laid to rest. THOSE lyrical themes wouldn't match Lee & Lifeson's musical minds this century anyway. When it comes down to it, Peart's best lyrics IMHO were in the 80s...while OVERALL, I prefer the music of the 70s. Through evolution it was inevitable that Rush would lose something. Perhaps the sloped forehead? http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2010/08/24/1853415/2001spaceodyssey-600x400.jpg http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2001_a_space_odyssey.jpg 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Isn't Jacobs ladder inspired by the atmospheric phenomenon, not the biblical story? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jomboni Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Isn't Jacobs ladder inspired by the atmospheric phenomenon, not the biblical story?Yeshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crepuscular_rays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look to Sirius Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Isn't Jacobs ladder inspired by the atmospheric phenomenon, not the biblical story?In my lyrics I've drawn a lot of references from The Bible, because it's a very colorful source of images. And I grew up, not religious, but in a religious background, going to Sunday school and taking religious education in school and so on. So, all these things do suggest themselves as metaphors and "Jacob's Ladder" is a lovely phrase, those two words itself. And that's in fact what we started with, we looked at the song as being a 'cinemative' kind of exercise and before any lyrics were written we talked about the image of "Jacob's Ladder", of a cloudy sky coming on and then all of a sudden these beams of light, which, everybody sees and I have always found very inspiring sort of thing. We had that experience in common. So we created the music just out of that vision and that image and wrote the whole song around that. And then in retrospect I went back and wrote a couple of verses of lyrics just to depict the image a little more acute and also to bring the vocals in as an instrumental sound. -Neil Peart, 1980 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcm Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I am glad that Rush has such a diverse catalog of work. I can find something from every era that I like. Each decade has material that can suit specific moods I'm in. Yay for diversity in music. I don't know if I would have been such a long time fan if they had remained stuck in the '70 style. I think that I might like the music but they would not fire my imagination as the various phases have done, sometimes 'because' I didn't like the style they were using, kwim. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look to Sirius Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Here's a Neil quote from 1984: "There comes a time when you stop reading comic books and start reading newspapers. That's the kind of growth you go through. I started to observe my friends and peers and contemporaries and what they were going through. Their problems were also reflected by what I saw on my travels through cities we played in - I couldn't blinker myself from these problems anymore. At one point, fantasy and escapism was moving me away from mundaneness. Now, mundaneness is drawing me back to reality - but with a different sensitivity and more of an awareness, born of maturity." 1986: "I went through periods the same way lyrically of being over-ornamental and spending alot of time developing an atmosphere lyrically. I don't do that anymore. I want five words to do what I used to use five lines to do. I'm fairly satisfied with my body of lyric writing over the last four or five years, but prior to that it was strictly kindergarten, strictly groundwork and experimentation." And from 1989: "I have been very much influenced by 20th century American prose. My lyrics used to be very profligate with imagery but I have learned to strip them down now. I think much more about the structure, and about how they will sound when sung by someone else. I try to take great care about the placement of vowels and consonants..." "Particularly TS Eliot, I find he has a very lyrical style and the power of his refrains really relates to rock. Edited September 25, 2015 by Look to Sirius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraroc Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Funny seeing as how Rush is comprised of a confirmed athiest (Neil), someone who's spiritual but not religious (Geddy), and someone who's religious affiliation is unknown (Alex) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Unfortunate but these are the kinds of "deep" discussions I love to read but don't really have what it takes to contribute. Carry on ladies and gents... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Neil went from being a poet to being a social commentator. That's when his lyrics became sterile. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Dad Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Funny seeing as how Rush is comprised of a confirmed athiest (Neil), someone who's spiritual but not religious (Geddy), and someone who's religious affiliation is unknown (Alex) Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Unfortunate but these are the kinds of "deep" discussions I love to read but don't really have what it takes to contribute. Carry on ladies and gents... How do you figure? If you can type and you have an idea then you have what it takes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Funny seeing as how Rush is comprised of a confirmed athiest (Neil), someone who's spiritual but not religious (Geddy), and someone who's religious affiliation is unknown (Alex) Not exactly: Peart has only explicitly discussed his religious views in his book The Masked Rider: Cycling in West Africa, in which he writes "I'm a linear thinking agnostic, but not an atheist, folks" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Neil went from being a poet to being a social commentator. That's when his lyrics became sterile.The Trees is social commentary. Permanent Waves is loaded with social commentary. Plus, there are all sorts of social commentary in their 80s albums. Do you think the lyrics on anything I just mentioned now are the beginnings of his sterility? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Unfortunate but these are the kinds of "deep" discussions I love to read but don't really have what it takes to contribute. Carry on ladies and gents... How do you figure? If you can type and you have an idea then you have what it takes. I agree .. Narps always is one the money with good comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Unfortunate but these are the kinds of "deep" discussions I love to read but don't really have what it takes to contribute. Carry on ladies and gents... How do you figure? If you can type and you have an idea then you have what it takes. I agree .. Narps always is one the money with good commentsAs long as I stay in my lane or at least close to it I don't disagree... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Neil went from being a poet to being a social commentator. That's when his lyrics became sterile.The Trees is social commentary. Permanent Waves is loaded with social commentary. Plus, there are all sorts of social commentary in their 80s albums. Do you think the lyrics on anything I just mentioned now are the beginnings of his sterility? The Trees is a perfect example of how a social or political take on things can be made visual and interesting to the listener ... I have always likened The Trees to George Orwell's Animal Farm in that it uses comic book or animated imagery and applies it to a personal view of society ... 2112 was the same thing ... What is ironic, and fascinating, is that 2112 came from Anthem, and Ayn Rand was extremely set in her positions of ethics, reason and basically, thinking in a very sterile and straightforward manner .... But the story of Anthem was, at least to me, inspiring and visual I guess it is a balance that must be struck 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Neil went from being a poet to being a social commentator. That's when his lyrics became sterile.The Trees is social commentary. Permanent Waves is loaded with social commentary. Plus, there are all sorts of social commentary in their 80s albums. Do you think the lyrics on anything I just mentioned now are the beginnings of his sterility? Yes I agree about Permanent waves. What I'm talking about is being "only" a social commentator. He lost the poet somewhere along the way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Neil went from being a poet to being a social commentator. That's when his lyrics became sterile. Maybe, but he did his fair share of social commentary back when he could still write engaging lyrics, so I think there's more to the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Neil went from being a poet to being a social commentator. That's when his lyrics became sterile. Maybe, but he did his fair share of social commentary back when he could still write engaging lyrics, so I think there's more to the story. I was on my phone so I wasn't able to write out the detailed answer I really wanted to make. I think when he dropped the poet side of him and went strictly commentator, that's when the lyrics went downhill. They became more preachy and less of a fascination about the world. I think at some point along the way he decided he wanted to make statements. It's like he quit writing for himself and started writing what he thought he should write, if that makes sense. Edited September 25, 2015 by EagleMoon 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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