Did Alex rip off the ending riff in Xanadu

[LedRush]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

[ReRushed]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

To be clear, I'm not criticizing Rush for doing this. It's what they are and I love it.

[KennyLee]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

[GeminiRising79]

Many of you are overlooking the sprawling picture. Alex specifically "ripped" (as in a modern sense) a part of Neal's work and used it as a basis for the sound in 3 major albums, and music that was played in every concert since '78. It wasn't only for one song or a few.

[Xanadoood]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

To be honest, I don't think they're really as known for innovation as they are for their work ethic and business sense. They're really at their best more as performers than as songwriters.

 

Oh shit.. Here comes the Rush aren't good songwriters bit..

 

They are excellent songwriters and muscians. One of my absolute favorite bands. I love how they are inspired by what goes on around them and how they put their stamp on it. Honestly.

 

I wasn't directing that at you. It's just the whole not being songwriters and are just chops guys bit has been thrown at them since day one.. And they clearly know how to balance the two.

[LedRush]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

That was my point. There were no heavy metal progressive bands before them (or at least, there were no popular ones).

[Xanadoood]

Many of you are overlooking the sprawling picture. Alex specifically "ripped" (as in a modern sense) a part of Neal's work and used it as a basis for the sound in 3 major albums, and music that was played in every concert since '78. It wasn't only for one song or a few.

 

Ok. So why didn't Schon run with what he ( he really didn't, but this is a fun discussion, so I'll play along) created, and do something cool with it? Instead of lovin, touchin , squeezin?

Edited November 1, 2013 by Xanadoood

[ReRushed]

Many of you are overlooking the sprawling picture. Alex specifically "ripped" (as in a modern sense) a part of Neal's work and used it as a basis for the sound in 3 major albums, and music that was played in every concert since '78. It wasn't only for one song or a few.

 

Specifically, huh? Your insight and absolute conclusions are mesmerizing. Joyless.

[ReRushed]

Many of you are overlooking the sprawling picture. Alex specifically "ripped" (as in a modern sense) a part of Neal's work and used it as a basis for the sound in 3 major albums, and music that was played in every concert since '78. It wasn't only for one song or a few.

 

Ok. So why didn't Schon run with what he ( he really didn't, but this is a fun discussion, so I'll play along) created, and do something cool with it? Instead of lovin, touchin , squeezin?

 

It's a BS argument. So what if Alex Lifeson "ripped off" a sound or technique from Neal Schon? It's music. It's the nature of the beast. Is it safe to assume that Neal Schon hasn't ripped anyone off? Total BS.

[KennyLee]

Look, Neil Schon is a great, under rated guitar player. That being said, sharing a chord or progression doesn't make him and Alex very similar at all. Neal wants to please the masses with hits, Alex wants to please Alex by creating something meaningful.

 

Rush has always been about making music they like. If you like it too, come listen. Otherwise... jog on!

[ReRushed]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

That was my point. There were no heavy metal progressive bands before them (or at least, there were no popular ones).

 

This is a valid point. Although I still don't think of Rush as innovators or orginators, I certainly think of them as an influence and a source of inspiration.

[Tony R]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

Which "new ground" would that be, exactly?

 

[Tony R]

Rush's first two albums were heavily-influenced by Led Zep. CoS by Genesis, Tull, Zep and Yes. 2112 was a landmark in Progressive Metal" but still not a great distance from what Zep would sound like if they were dropped into a barrel full of classic Prog bands.

 

[LedRush]

Rush's first two albums were heavily-influenced by Led Zep. CoS by Genesis, Tull, Zep and Yes. 2112 was a landmark in Progressive Metal" but still not a great distance from what Zep would sound like if they were dropped into a barrel full of classic Prog bands.

 

So, you're looking for a band without any influences?

 

Just because you can see someone's influences doesn't mean you didn't break new ground. Hendrix was heavily influenced by Chuck Berry and Buddy Guy, but he sure was innovative and new.

[KennyLee]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

Which "new ground" would that be, exactly?

 

Really? Time signatures have been around for a long time but Rush's ability to shift in and out of different time signatures without sounding as such has changed a lot of views on music. Geddy's bass playing is the most melodic bass playing I have ever heard. Sure, Paul McCartney started bringing bass into the foreground but Geddy turned it into an aggressive lead instrument. Neal's use of percussion became a staple of prog bands. The use of more than just a groove or "Keith Moon style" all over the place drumming, Neal made the drums more of an instrument for the band.

 

Do you even listen?

[EagleMoon]

All musicians are influenced by the music they hear and especially other musicians they admire. It doesn't surprise me at all that these guys would use riffs that they've heard. Consciously or subconsciously. Like others have said chords and notes have been around since the dawn of time. There is nothing truly original anymore.

[ReRushed]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

Which "new ground" would that be, exactly?

 

Really? Time signatures have been around for a long time but Rush's ability to shift in and out of different time signatures without sounding as such has changed a lot of views on music. Geddy's bass playing is the most melodic bass playing I have ever heard. Sure, Paul McCartney started bringing bass into the foreground but Geddy turned it into an aggressive lead instrument. Neal's use of percussion became a staple of prog bands. The use of more than just a groove or "Keith Moon style" all over the place drumming, Neal made the drums more of an instrument for the band.

 

Do you even listen?

 

Chris Squire did that before Geddy did. Bill Bruford did that before Neil Peart.

 

I'm not knocking Rush. I love Rush more than I do Yes. I just don't hear Rush as innovators. Yeah, their muscianship was inspirational but not necessarily innovative. Now, do I think Geddy Lee is as good as Chris Squire? Yes. Is Neil a great and inspirational rock drummer? Yes, he's among the very best. Is Alex Lifeson a great guitar player? Yes, he takes his influences and makes them his own.

[KennyLee]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

Which "new ground" would that be, exactly?

 

Really? Time signatures have been around for a long time but Rush's ability to shift in and out of different time signatures without sounding as such has changed a lot of views on music. Geddy's bass playing is the most melodic bass playing I have ever heard. Sure, Paul McCartney started bringing bass into the foreground but Geddy turned it into an aggressive lead instrument. Neal's use of percussion became a staple of prog bands. The use of more than just a groove or "Keith Moon style" all over the place drumming, Neal made the drums more of an instrument for the band.

 

Do you even listen?

 

Chris Squire did that before Geddy did. Bill Bruford did that before Neil Peart.

 

I'm not knocking Rush. I love Rush more than I do Yes. I just don't hear Rush as innovators. Yeah, their muscianship was inspirational but not necessarily innovative. Now, do I think Geddy Lee is as good as Chris Squire? Yes. Is Neil a great and inspirational rock drummer? Yes, he's among the very best. Is Alex Lifeson a great guitar player? Yes, he takes his influences and makes them his own.

 

Chris Squire was good but did not take the bass to the level that Geddy did. Squire grooved and played busy but Geddy was more melodic and "lead".

 

I am not saying Rush does not have influences. If you don't live under a rock you're influenced by the world around you. That being said, these three guys took music to a new, different (my opinion, better) level. I don't know what you expect innovative to be?

 

Witch Hunt, La Villa Strangiato, Xanadu (all of it not that one chord), Natural Science... where exactly were you hearing this type of music before?

[Tony R]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

Which "new ground" would that be, exactly?

 

Really? Time signatures have been around for a long time but Rush's ability to shift in and out of different time signatures without sounding as such has changed a lot of views on music. Geddy's bass playing is the most melodic bass playing I have ever heard. Sure, Paul McCartney started bringing bass into the foreground but Geddy turned it into an aggressive lead instrument. Neal's use of percussion became a staple of prog bands. The use of more than just a groove or "Keith Moon style" all over the place drumming, Neal made the drums more of an instrument for the band.

 

Do you even listen?

 

Don't talk daft.

Chris Squire was making the bass an "aggressive lead instrument" before Rush even cut an album. Time signatures? King Crimson, Genesis, ELP and Yes, amongst others, were dancing around different time signatures before Rush and directly influenced Rush.

You can't rewrite history to suit your fanboy fantasies, and your post is clearly embarrassing.

 

I'm 52 and formally a senior Admin at Progarchives and you ask me if I listen???

 

Grow up.

 

 

[Sin City]

So that's why the middle 8 of escape by Journey sounds like the middle bit of red barchetta then. Revenge?

[Tony R]

Rush's first two albums were heavily-influenced by Led Zep. CoS by Genesis, Tull, Zep and Yes. 2112 was a landmark in Progressive Metal" but still not a great distance from what Zep would sound like if they were dropped into a barrel full of classic Prog bands.

 

So, you're looking for a band without any influences?

 

Just because you can see someone's influences doesn't mean you didn't break new ground. Hendrix was heavily influenced by Chuck Berry and Buddy Guy, but he sure was innovative and new.

 

Is there a band called The Strawman, Doc?

 

This is a Rush board and I am a Rush fan. Rush weren't as innovative as people make out, s'all.

If it wasn't for Neil Peart, Rush would probably be a footnote in progressive musical history.

 

 

[Tony R]

So that's why the middle 8 of escape by Journey sounds like the middle bit of red barchetta then. Revenge?

 

Did you down your 4 pints?

 

Enquiring minds need to know... ;)

 

[GeddysMullet]

Originality is largely a myth. And anyway, what difference does it make whether a band is "original" if the music sounds fantastic? Maybe other bands did it first. So? To my ears, Rush did it better.

[Tombstone Mountain]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

Which "new ground" would that be, exactly?

 

Really? Time signatures have been around for a long time but Rush's ability to shift in and out of different time signatures without sounding as such has changed a lot of views on music. Geddy's bass playing is the most melodic bass playing I have ever heard. Sure, Paul McCartney started bringing bass into the foreground but Geddy turned it into an aggressive lead instrument. Neal's use of percussion became a staple of prog bands. The use of more than just a groove or "Keith Moon style" all over the place drumming, Neal made the drums more of an instrument for the band.

 

Do you even listen?

 

Don't talk daft.

Chris Squire was making the bass an "aggressive lead instrument" before Rush even cut an album. Time signatures? King Crimson, Genesis, ELP and Yes, amongst others, were dancing around different time signatures before Rush and directly influenced Rush.

You can't rewrite history to suit your fanboy fantasies, and your post is clearly embarrassing.

 

I'm 52 and formally a senior Admin at Progarchives and you ask me if I listen???

 

Grow up.

Tony, its only polite to offer a "reach around" after that kind of response. Kennylee just got schooled by the pirate captain.

[Tony R]

Part of the problem is some may think of Rush as originators or innovators. As creative as Rush is, they have never been originators or innovators. They ride the waves they like best.

 

It's true. They basically just copied all the heavy metal progressive bands that came before them.

 

I couldn't disagree more. They are extremely innovative and progressive. The fact that they are a genre all their own should say enough. They haven't invented any new chords but you cannot deny their creativity. Rush broke new ground constantly throughout their illustrious career.

 

Which "new ground" would that be, exactly?

 

Really? Time signatures have been around for a long time but Rush's ability to shift in and out of different time signatures without sounding as such has changed a lot of views on music. Geddy's bass playing is the most melodic bass playing I have ever heard. Sure, Paul McCartney started bringing bass into the foreground but Geddy turned it into an aggressive lead instrument. Neal's use of percussion became a staple of prog bands. The use of more than just a groove or "Keith Moon style" all over the place drumming, Neal made the drums more of an instrument for the band.

 

Do you even listen?

 

Don't talk daft.

Chris Squire was making the bass an "aggressive lead instrument" before Rush even cut an album. Time signatures? King Crimson, Genesis, ELP and Yes, amongst others, were dancing around different time signatures before Rush and directly influenced Rush.

You can't rewrite history to suit your fanboy fantasies, and your post is clearly embarrassing.

 

I'm 52 and formally a senior Admin at Progarchives and you ask me if I listen???

 

Grow up.

Tony, its only polite to offer a "reach around" after that kind of response. Kennylee just got schooled by the pirate captain.

 

He wants shagging up the arse for being a tosser, but it's not my style.

 

Maybe a trip to the library to dig up the Penguin Book of Children's Progressive Rock would suffice?