Hagar-era Van Halen

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ May 11 2009, 02:19 AM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:09 AM) Eddie lost his balls and his tone sometime between 1985 and 1986. There's still a lot of the same Eddie licks and riffs on 5150 and OU812 but something is missing, a certain "kick" a danger in Eddie's playing that exists on the Roth-era albums and is missing after. The brown sound had turned beige. The natural swing had swung off. Plus... Hagar was almost trying too hard to Van Halenize himself with his "HELLOOOOOOOO BABYS" which sounded like he was trying to do Roth and most of the album is too AOR. I think he lost his balls too, His 80s solo stuff rocks harder not to mention Montrose. Live? It seems ridiculous to have Sammy playing lead guitar while Ed plays keyboards. And so on... very well said treeduck.   all one has to do is watch " Live without a net", wich i love and , IMO, was one of the last times Halen was still kickin ass live, and then view some classic Roth era stuff....particulary from the Fair Warning tour.   just more polished and streamlined with Sammy at the mic. Yeah, the production of the albums seemed weaker too, no Ted Templeman maybe?

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:26 AM)

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ May 11 2009, 02:19 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:09 AM) Eddie lost his balls and his tone sometime between 1985 and 1986. There's still a lot of the same Eddie licks and riffs on 5150 and OU812 but something is missing, a certain "kick" a danger in Eddie's playing that exists on the Roth-era albums and is missing after. The brown sound had turned beige. The natural swing had swung off. Plus... Hagar was almost trying too hard to Van Halenize himself with his "HELLOOOOOOOO BABYS" which sounded like he was trying to do Roth and most of the album is too AOR. I think he lost his balls too, His 80s solo stuff rocks harder not to mention Montrose. Live? It seems ridiculous to have Sammy playing lead guitar while Ed plays keyboards. And so on... very well said treeduck.   all one has to do is watch " Live without a net", wich i love and , IMO, was one of the last times Halen was still kickin ass live, and then view some classic Roth era stuff....particulary from the Fair Warning tour.   just more polished and streamlined with Sammy at the mic. Yeah, the production of the albums seemed weaker too, no Ted Templeman maybe? those first six Halen albums were about as Live in the studio as you can get. listen when Ed solos, and you , most of the time, wont hear any backing rythm guitar. and Ed is always on the left side, the rythm section on the right.   they pretty much changed directions in all areas, not just the songwriting.   though i will say that 5150 doesnt sound like any of there other albums. it has a unique quality to it that i like.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ May 11 2009, 02:32 AM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:26 AM) QUOTE (Xanadoood @ May 11 2009, 02:19 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:09 AM) Eddie lost his balls and his tone sometime between 1985 and 1986. There's still a lot of the same Eddie licks and riffs on 5150 and OU812 but something is missing, a certain "kick" a danger in Eddie's playing that exists on the Roth-era albums and is missing after. The brown sound had turned beige. The natural swing had swung off. Plus... Hagar was almost trying too hard to Van Halenize himself with his "HELLOOOOOOOO BABYS" which sounded like he was trying to do Roth and most of the album is too AOR. I think he lost his balls too, His 80s solo stuff rocks harder not to mention Montrose. Live? It seems ridiculous to have Sammy playing lead guitar while Ed plays keyboards. And so on... very well said treeduck.   all one has to do is watch " Live without a net", wich i love and , IMO, was one of the last times Halen was still kickin ass live, and then view some classic Roth era stuff....particulary from the Fair Warning tour.   just more polished and streamlined with Sammy at the mic. Yeah, the production of the albums seemed weaker too, no Ted Templeman maybe? those first six Halen albums were about as Live in the studio as you can get. listen when Ed solos, and you , most of the time, wont hear any backing rythm guitar. and Ed is always on the left side, the rythm section on the right.   they pretty much changed directions in all areas, not just the songwriting.   though i will say that 5150 doesnt sound like any of there other albums. it has a unique quality to it that i like. It's not a bad album it's just not Van Halen. Eat em and Smile blew it away, that album is more of a Van Halen album than 5150.

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:09 AM)

Eddie lost his balls and his tone sometime between 1985 and 1986. There's still a lot of the same Eddie licks and riffs on 5150 and OU812 but something is missing, a certain "kick" a danger in Eddie's playing that exists on the Roth-era albums and is missing after. The brown sound had turned beige. The natural swing had swung off. Plus... Hagar was almost trying too hard to Van Halenize himself with his "HELLOOOOOOOO BABYS" which sounded like he was trying to do Roth and most of the album is too AOR. I think he lost his balls too, His 80s solo stuff rocks harder not to mention Montrose. Live? It seems ridiculous to have Sammy playing lead guitar while Ed plays keyboards. And so on...

Hagar wasn't DLR'ing himself...he was just being Sam. That was Sam. That's what I liked about it...that he didn't try to be Dave. He was just himself.

 

Again, I appreciate that they were their own thing.

 

Oh and let's remember...Ed was playing the way he was playing already. Dave leaving had nothing to do with him playing more keys. Had DLR stayed, they were going down that path. Edward writes the music, not Roth....so while the lyrics and the vocal deliveries would've been COMPLETELY different, there still would've been the very same sonics of 5150, OU812, etc. People act like Sammy being there is what softened up Eddie. Eddie was already going there, Dave or not...and that's quite evident on 1984. Doesn't make that any better, if you don't like that direction...but it wasn't caused by anything. DLR was NOT responsible for them being heavy; Eddie was. He was the musical compass. People correlate these two as if Roth walked off with all the balls...but VH was going this direction, even if DLR stayed on.

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ May 11 2009, 12:23 AM)

I don't think that any of Dave's solo work can come close to VH's post-Dave material. I remember that I liked one dang song from Dave's solo career. One song from all those albums that my friends would play for me every night out. What was that name o' that flarkin thing? Was it Shy Boy? I know it certainly wasn't 'Like Paradise' or 'Yankee Rose'. Those two were annoying. Dave had an awesome band though. Vai/Sheehan. Would have liked to see what that particular trio would come up with during the late 70's, instead of the late 80's when everything was glitz and gloss and weak.

I agree. I think Eat Em And Smile is a fine album and very DLR. But it's not very VH either. I liked both it and 5150 as great experiences. It's the ONLY DLR album that comes close. Skyscraper onward is half or more filler....and by the time you get to the third DLR solo and VH's third with Sammy, the difference is laughable (in favor of VH).

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 11 2009, 06:22 AM)

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ May 11 2009, 12:23 AM) I don't think that any of Dave's solo work can come close to VH's post-Dave material.  I remember that I liked one dang song from Dave's solo career.  One song from all those albums that my friends would play for me every night out.  What was that name o' that flarkin thing?  Was it Shy Boy?  I know it certainly wasn't 'Like Paradise' or 'Yankee Rose'.  Those two were annoying.  Dave had an awesome band though.  Vai/Sheehan.  Would have liked to see what that particular trio would come up with during the late 70's, instead of the late 80's when everything was glitz and gloss and weak. I agree. I think Eat Em And Smile is a fine album and very DLR. But it's not very VH either. I liked both it and 5150 as great experiences. It's the ONLY DLR album that comes close. Skyscraper onward is half or more filler....and by the time you get to the third DLR solo and VH's third with Sammy, the difference is laughable (in favor of VH). I think its safe to say that the Van Halen Brothers and Dave needed each other to make the music that we all associate V.H with.   its one of those musical collaborations that just fit and when taken away, you get SOME of the parts...but it just never really came together.   i just hope we get another album of new music from Eddie ...its been wayyyy to long!

[metaldad]

my 2 cents

with 5150 they became a different band . 5150 is also the best album they did with SAMMY imo. what a lot of people don't know is 3 of the songs on 5150 were written when dave was still in the band.

GOOD ENOUGH

SUMMER NIGHTS

i forget the other one . i saw ED on mtv and those are the songs he said .

imo , you can not touch the first 4 albums . DIVER DOWN had way to many cover songs but ED and DAVE really were not even talking to each other anymore. 1984 blew them up and they were bigger than ever. 0u812 had a few good songs, F.U.C.K. had about 2 good songs and BALANCE was crap except for FEELIN. i got into them in 1980 and saw them in 1981[best show i have ever seen] live with sammy it was a joke. sammy never really sang any dave era songs which to me is a joke. ED and AL let him do whatever he wanted . bad move . they should have changed the name of the band if they were going to play 90% new stuff. SAMMY has a much better voice but DAVE writes better songs for V.H. they were never VAN HALEN with sammy . simple as that

[rushgoober]

An old TRF poll (DLR vs. Hagar):

 

http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?showtopic=8121

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (metaldad @ May 11 2009, 08:02 AM)

my 2 cents with 5150 they became a different band . 5150 is also the best album they did with SAMMY imo. what a lot of people don't know is 3 of the songs on 5150 were written when dave was still in the band. GOOD ENOUGH SUMMER NIGHTS i forget the other one . i saw ED on mtv and those are the songs he said . imo , you can not touch the first 4 albums . DIVER DOWN had way to many cover songs but ED and DAVE really were not even talking to each other anymore. 1984 blew them up and they were bigger than ever. 0u812 had a few good songs, F.U.C.K. had about 2 good songs and BALANCE was crap except for FEELIN. i got into them in 1980 and saw them in 1981[best show i have ever seen] live with sammy it was a joke. sammy never really sang any dave era songs which to me is a joke. ED and AL let him do whatever he wanted . bad move . they should have changed the name of the band if they were going to play 90% new stuff. SAMMY has a much better voice but DAVE writes better songs for V.H. they were never VAN HALEN with sammy . simple as that

I agree with some of this stuff.

 

Certainly, comparing the two Van Halen eras is a tough thing to do, because while they had some similarities, they were still two completely different bands.

 

Like Metaldad said, if they had changed their name to something else, it would be easier to look at the strong points of the Hagar-era, which I think get lost in the shuffle, when fans have to pick between an album like OU812 and Van Halen 1.

 

I LOVE the Hagar era. In fact, I'm probably one of the few that really love it as much as I do. However, I don't think ANY other VH album (from either era) touches VH1.

 

I still say VH1 is the greatest debut album of all-time by any band.

 

But Hagar has killer material too. Roth was more about the party / girls / sex songs, while Hagar was the best with the serious songwriting. Their material off F.U.C.K. is extremely good IMO.

 

I think that Hagar's "fun" songs can come out sounding a bit like he was trying too hard. Not all, but some. I think Sammy was at his very best when he stuck to writing the serious material.

 

"The Dream Is Over" and "Pleasure Dome" for instance, are two extremely strong pieces of work, that probably get lost in the shuffle, if you include all of Roth's work.

 

I love both eras. But again, we're talking about two different bands. Like Metaldad said, they should've switched the band name when they inserted Hagar into the mix. Personally, I never compare the two eras. I just enjoy each of them for what they really are...different bands.

[VarianStar]

Cherone owns Roth and Hagar.

[naturalsciences101]

QUOTE (VarianStar @ May 11 2009, 01:00 PM)

Cherone owns Roth and Hagar.

Cherone owned one thing in his whole miserable existence. And, that was the day of the Freddy Mercury Tribute Concert. I just saw this 1993? concert on DVD recently, after fifteen years elapsing since I saw it LIVE on TV the day of the event. And, Cherone and his band owned the stage that day. Reminded me VERY MUCH of Mercury hisself and his own BIG DAY at LIVE AID eight years earlier. In retrospect, Cherone would have made the logical choice for a Mercury-replacement, over Paul Rodgers. He would have been better in that role than as yet another VH frontman. Ya think? Yes, no, maybe?

 

 

[metaldad]

i saw VH with CHERONE 3 times. i will tell you this. that album sucked big ball's but the shows with him were better than any SAMMY show i saw and you are hearing this from a guy who has seen VH about 30 times since 1981

[Steevo]

Oh Jesus no, just when we thought it couldnt go any lower, Cherone makes an appearance

[Xanadude69]

I like Dave's voice better. Van Halen lost its balls with the Hagar albums, and this was becoming evident with 1984. It was just the sound they were leaning towards. Van Halen was a ROCK band with DLR and they were a POP band with Hagar.

 

Kind of like why I don't like most 80s and 90s Rush. they became a pop band

[naturalsciences101]

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:09 AM)

Eddie lost his balls and his tone sometime between 1985 and 1986. There's still a lot of the same Eddie licks and riffs on 5150 and OU812 but something is missing, a certain "kick" a danger in Eddie's playing that exists on the Roth-era albums and is missing after. The brown sound had turned beige. The natural swing had swung off. Plus... Hagar was almost trying too hard to Van Halenize himself with his "HELLOOOOOOOO BABYS" which sounded like he was trying to do Roth and most of the album is too AOR. I think he lost his balls too, His 80s solo stuff rocks harder not to mention Montrose. Live? It seems ridiculous to have Sammy playing lead guitar while Ed plays keyboards. And so on...

Quite respectfully, I don't think this makes any sense at all. It has nothing to do with Eddie losing his balls. He simply matured as an artist. He became something else. Like Presto says above, he was going there anyway. Inevitably, an artist's sound/direction/style is gonna change at some, undetermined interval along the timeline.

 

I loved the LIVE SOUND of the first six. Well, five out of those six. Well, the live sound was really only captured well on the first four. But, they had that thing going for them that no one else did. They were an explosive act that oozed sexual energy and virtuosity. The four of them musta scored some serious trim in the early dayz.

 

But, that's when the boys were all in their 20's. And, during the decade of the 70's. Music changed a lot from, say, 1977 to 1987...and EVH also grew ten years older. Sure, the Sammy-era discs don't rock as hard, but I see this second stage of VH as being more musicaly mature, also more diverse and complex. If that's not your bag, then, well, hey. But, Eddie wrote songs during this next phase of his career that he was 'incapable of' during his first run.

 

Songs like 5150, Dreams, When It's Love, Right Now, these are on a different level, musically, than those nice quick romps like Beautiful Girls or Unchained. Quite honestly, I do now, and always will favor hearing songs like 'Everybody Wants Some' or 'So This Is Love' over the Sammy-era tracks just cited, but the point is that Eddie wouldn't have been psychologically and musically prepared to write songs like these back during the late 70's.

 

And, it's not like there wasn't a nice, fair share of Hard Rockers in the batch of Sammy tunes too. Cabo Wabo, Black and Blue, Poundcake, Mine All Mine, Get Up, Best Of Both Worlds. There's some quality tunage during the Sammy years....Wow, all this Halen talks reminds me of just how long it's been since my last VH fix.

 

Yes, I do think I will be pulling out II or Fair Warning right about now...Right Now NatSci is putting on a Van Halen disc. Right Now there is a tenant in a house somewhere on Long Island who is upset with his landlord because of volume levels. Right Now someone is stepping onto a nude beach for the first time. Right Now someone is eating canned peaches past the expiration date...Right Now!

 

 

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ May 11 2009, 09:55 PM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:09 AM) Eddie lost his balls and his tone sometime between 1985 and 1986. There's still a lot of the same Eddie licks and riffs on 5150 and OU812 but something is missing, a certain "kick" a danger in Eddie's playing that exists on the Roth-era albums and is missing after. The brown sound had turned beige. The natural swing had swung off. Plus... Hagar was almost trying too hard to Van Halenize himself with his "HELLOOOOOOOO BABYS" which sounded like he was trying to do Roth and most of the album is too AOR. I think he lost his balls too, His 80s solo stuff rocks harder not to mention Montrose. Live? It seems ridiculous to have Sammy playing lead guitar while Ed plays keyboards. And so on... Quite respectfully, I don't think this makes any sense at all. It has nothing to do with Eddie losing his balls. He simply matured as an artist. He became something else. Like Presto says above, he was going there anyway. Inevitably, an artist's sound/direction/style is gonna change at some, undetermined interval along the timeline.   I loved the LIVE SOUND of the first six. Well, five out of those six. Well, the live sound was really only captured well on the first four. But, they had that thing going for them that no one else did. They were an explosive act that oozed sexual energy and virtuosity. The four of them musta scored some serious trim in the early dayz.   But, that's when the boys were all in their 20's. And, during the decade of the 70's. Music changed a lot from, say, 1977 to 1987...and EVH also grew ten years older. Sure, the Sammy-era discs don't rock as hard, but I see this second stage of VH as being more musicaly mature, also more diverse and complex. If that's not your bag, then, well, hey. But, Eddie wrote songs during this next phase of his career that he was 'incapable of' during his first run.   Songs like 5150, Dreams, When It's Love, Right Now, these are on a different level, musically, than those nice quick romps like Beautiful Girls or Unchained. Quite honestly, I do now, and always will favor hearing songs like 'Everybody Wants Some' or 'So This Is Love' over the Sammy-era tracks just cited, but the point is that Eddie wouldn't have been psychologically and musically prepared to write songs like these back during the late 70's.   And, it's not like there wasn't a nice, fair share of Hard Rockers in the batch of Sammy tunes too. Cabo Wabo, Black and Blue, Poundcake, Mine All Mine, Get Up, Best Of Both Worlds. There's some quality tunage during the Sammy years....Wow, all this Halen talks reminds me of just how long it's been since my last VH fix.   Yes, I do think I will be pulling out II or Fair Warning right about now...Right Now NatSci is putting on a Van Halen disc. Right Now there is a tenant in a house somewhere on Long Island who is upset with his landlord because of volume levels. Right Now someone is stepping onto a nude beach for the first time. Right Now someone is eating canned peaches past the expiration date...Right Now! I dont know man.   i think from 'woman and children" to " 1984" was there most experimental phase. the songs rocked , but they always had that quirky Eddie quality to them.   i really dont think songs like Dreams and When its love are more complex or interesting thaN say, Loss of Control or Dirty Movies..that stuff was just bizzare compared to the Hagar era.     perhaps they werent doing as much of the white marching powder when Sammy was in the band??..

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 11 2009, 06:20 AM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:09 AM) Eddie lost his balls and his tone sometime between 1985 and 1986. There's still a lot of the same Eddie licks and riffs on 5150 and OU812 but something is missing, a certain "kick" a danger in Eddie's playing that exists on the Roth-era albums and is missing after. The brown sound had turned beige. The natural swing had swung off. Plus... Hagar was almost trying too hard to Van Halenize himself with his "HELLOOOOOOOO BABYS" which sounded like he was trying to do Roth and most of the album is too AOR. I think he lost his balls too, His 80s solo stuff rocks harder not to mention Montrose. Live? It seems ridiculous to have Sammy playing lead guitar while Ed plays keyboards. And so on... Hagar wasn't DLR'ing himself...he was just being Sam. That was Sam. That's what I liked about it...that he didn't try to be Dave. He was just himself.   Again, I appreciate that they were their own thing.   Oh and let's remember...Ed was playing the way he was playing already. Dave leaving had nothing to do with him playing more keys. Had DLR stayed, they were going down that path. Edward writes the music, not Roth....so while the lyrics and the vocal deliveries would've been COMPLETELY different, there still would've been the very same sonics of 5150, OU812, etc. People act like Sammy being there is what softened up Eddie. Eddie was already going there, Dave or not...and that's quite evident on 1984. Doesn't make that any better, if you don't like that direction...but it wasn't caused by anything. DLR was NOT responsible for them being heavy; Eddie was. He was the musical compass. People correlate these two as if Roth walked off with all the balls...but VH was going this direction, even if DLR stayed on. Yeah but you're admitting that there is a "there" whoever caused it, and "there" is not better then before. And you say 1984 is like 5150, keyboards are present and that's all they have in common. The guitars are definitely weaker on 5150, they have a thin quality to them, whatever the reason, with less attitude and yes balls.   Sammy never did anything like that Hellllllllllllllllloo baby as an intro to a song on any album before this if I recall correctly. He was van Halenizing or Rothing himself himself to my ears. Even at the time I groaned at that intro.   Dreams and Love Walks in are more like bland Journey than Van Halen, not a bad thing all by itself but it's just not Van Halen. Best of Both Worlds is like an AC/DC riff. The title track is my favourite song on that album it's the most innovative song on there.

[naturalsciences101]

Did I also state that I happen to be partial to the Van Hagar stuff because the material is forever intricately tied into the best Summers of my life? lol. I'm heavily biased, I admit. Listening to Summer Nights and Cabo Wabo and the rest of 'em down on Floridian and Mexican beaches, even dirty New York ones, with beers in hand and babes available for the taking. Now, how am I supposed to talk schitt about Sammy Hagar when he gave me all those memories?

 

 

[metaldad]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ May 11 2009, 11:18 PM)

Did I also state that I happen to be partial to the Van Hagar stuff because the material is forever intricately tied into the best Summers of my life? lol. I'm heavily biased, I admit. Listening to Summer Nights and Cabo Wabo and the rest of 'em down on Floridian and Mexican beaches, even dirty New York ones, with beers in hand and babes available for the taking. Now, how am I supposed to talk schitt about Sammy Hagar when he gave me all those memories?

dave sang about the same shit. only better

[naturalsciences101]

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 10:52 PM)

Sammy never did anything like that Hellllllllllllllllloo baby as an intro to a song on any album before this if I recall correctly. He was van Halenizing or Rothing himself himself to my ears. Even at the time I groaned at that intro.

Although this bit might remind ya'll of Diamond Dave, it's actually taken from The Big Bopper. It's from the beginning of Chantilly Lace...that pretty face.

 

 

 

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (metaldad @ May 13 2009, 10:55 AM)

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ May 11 2009, 11:18 PM) Did I also state that I happen to be partial to the Van Hagar stuff because the material is forever intricately tied into the best Summers of my life?  lol.  I'm heavily biased, I admit.  Listening to Summer Nights and Cabo Wabo and the rest of 'em down on Floridian and Mexican beaches, even dirty New York ones, with beers in hand and babes available for the taking.  Now, how am I supposed to talk schitt about Sammy Hagar when he gave me all those memories? dave sang about the same shit. only better Well it shows VH always kept its good time edge.   I do agree that those songs (Cabo, Summer Nights) DRIP a summer evening vibe. Add to those the bubbling keys of Feels So Good. I mean, hey...they're good songs and Sam/Ed also knew how to tap into that vein.

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 10:52 PM)

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 11 2009, 06:20 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ May 11 2009, 02:09 AM) Eddie lost his balls and his tone sometime between 1985 and 1986. There's still a lot of the same Eddie licks and riffs on 5150 and OU812 but something is missing, a certain "kick" a danger in Eddie's playing that exists on the Roth-era albums and is missing after. The brown sound had turned beige. The natural swing had swung off. Plus... Hagar was almost trying too hard to Van Halenize himself with his "HELLOOOOOOOO BABYS" which sounded like he was trying to do Roth and most of the album is too AOR. I think he lost his balls too, His 80s solo stuff rocks harder not to mention Montrose. Live? It seems ridiculous to have Sammy playing lead guitar while Ed plays keyboards. And so on... Hagar wasn't DLR'ing himself...he was just being Sam. That was Sam. That's what I liked about it...that he didn't try to be Dave. He was just himself.   Again, I appreciate that they were their own thing.   Oh and let's remember...Ed was playing the way he was playing already. Dave leaving had nothing to do with him playing more keys. Had DLR stayed, they were going down that path. Edward writes the music, not Roth....so while the lyrics and the vocal deliveries would've been COMPLETELY different, there still would've been the very same sonics of 5150, OU812, etc. People act like Sammy being there is what softened up Eddie. Eddie was already going there, Dave or not...and that's quite evident on 1984. Doesn't make that any better, if you don't like that direction...but it wasn't caused by anything. DLR was NOT responsible for them being heavy; Eddie was. He was the musical compass. People correlate these two as if Roth walked off with all the balls...but VH was going this direction, even if DLR stayed on. Yeah but you're admitting that there is a "there" whoever caused it, and "there" is not better then before. And you say 1984 is like 5150, keyboards are present and that's all they have in common. The guitars are definitely weaker on 5150, they have a thin quality to them, whatever the reason, with less attitude and yes balls.   Sammy never did anything like that Hellllllllllllllllloo baby as an intro to a song on any album before this if I recall correctly. He was van Halenizing or Rothing himself himself to my ears. Even at the time I groaned at that intro.   Dreams and Love Walks in are more like bland Journey than Van Halen, not a bad thing all by itself but it's just not Van Halen. Best of Both Worlds is like an AC/DC riff. The title track is my favourite song on that album it's the most innovative song on there. All I'm saying was that path, for better or worse, was inevitable. Dave staying wasn't going to save them from that. That's where the miscommunication comes sometimes....that DLR was actually responsible for the heaviness and Sam was responsible for the lighter touch and that's simply NOT true. Edward is/was the nucleus and he was changing and dabbling as musicians do.

[metaldad]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 13 2009, 11:19 AM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ May 13 2009, 10:55 AM) QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ May 11 2009, 11:18 PM) Did I also state that I happen to be partial to the Van Hagar stuff because the material is forever intricately tied into the best Summers of my life?  lol.  I'm heavily biased, I admit.  Listening to Summer Nights and Cabo Wabo and the rest of 'em down on Floridian and Mexican beaches, even dirty New York ones, with beers in hand and babes available for the taking.  Now, how am I supposed to talk schitt about Sammy Hagar when he gave me all those memories? dave sang about the same shit. only better Well it shows VH always kept its good time edge.   I do agree that those songs (Cabo, Summer Nights) DRIP a summer evening vibe. Add to those the bubbling keys of Feels So Good. I mean, hey...they're good songs and Sam/Ed also knew how to tap into that vein. it showed me that SAMMY really tried to make people forget DAVE. it did not work. did you ever read the words for AMSTERDAM? wham bam roll an amsterdam yeah, yeah, yeah are you f-n serious? those lyrics are pure shit . trying to be cool. i remember after SAMMY was fired the first time ED made fun of those lyrics . he can't pull of the V.H. vibe no matter how hard he tries.

[Presto-digitation]

Yeah, I'm not claiming all of sammy's stuff was brilliant...LOL. But here and there they tapped a vibe. Summer Nights is a great song, for instance. To say that doesn't take anything away from Dave. I'm certainly of the opinion that DLR's era was superior.

 

Here's a link to my VH reviews here at TRF, if anyone's interested:

 

http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?show...83&hl=van+halen

[metaldad]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 13 2009, 12:08 PM)

Summer Nights is a great song

you know why it's a great song ? because it was written when DAVE was still in the band