MMCXII Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I've been trying to learn how to identify time signatures in music and I remember hearing about a rush tune where Geddy/Alex play one beat and Neil plays another, then they meet and play the chorus together... anyone know what song this is? or is there more than one? I seem to remember the one I'm thinking of appears on ESL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdownunder Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The songs on 'Exit...Stage Left' that have odd time sections in them are... YYZJacobs LadderFreewillTom SawyerLa Villa Strangiato I guess you could throw in 'The Trees' as well, with its 3/4 intro. Can't remember if 'Xanadu' does or not though. Not sure which tune you're referring to though. Let us know if you remember! Odd time signatures can be tricky to get a hold of, but once you do, they're a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaoi_myantidrug Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Sorry I dont have any songs to add, but i gotta ask:what counts as an "odd" time signature? Anything but 4/4? Everyone seems to include 3/4, one I came across often. But this was in orchaestra, so maybe it was more common in classical music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New World Kid Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 An odd time signature is one that has the first number that's odd. 3/4, 5/4, 7/8, 11/8, etc etc. I can't rememeber one where Ged and Alex play independent of Neil, but it's probably happened. I know PT does it sometimes... best example that comes to mind is Sentimental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdownunder Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 A few example of odd time signatures in songs... 'Take Five' - Dave Brubeck Quartet (5/4) 'Keep It Greasey' - Frank Zappa (19/16) 'Solsbury Hill' - Peter Gabriel (7/4) 'Watermelon In Easter Hay' - Frank Zappa (9/4) 'Spoonman' - Soundgarden (7/4) 'Mission: Impossible Theme' - Lalo Schifrin (5/4) 'Outside Now' - Frank Zappa (9/4) 'Money' - Pink Floyd (7/4) 'Blue Rondo Ala Turk' - Dave Brubeck Quartet (9/8) 'Thirteen' - Frank Zappa (13/8 (5/8 + 4/4)) 'Celestial Terrestrial Commuters' - The Mahavishnu Orchestra (19/16) 'Whipping Post' - Allman Brothers Band (11/8) 'Pound For A Brown' - Frank Zappa (7/8) 'Living In The Past' - Jethro Tull (5/4) 'five-five-FIVE' - Frank Zappa (5/8 & 5/4) You'll notice Frank Zappas name appear more than once here, check him out for some of the greatest odd time / polyrhythmic music ever written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (New World Kid @ Oct 9 2008, 01:11 AM) An odd time signature is one that has the first number that's odd. 3/4, 5/4, 7/8, 11/8, etc etc. I can't rememeber one where Ged and Alex play independent of Neil, but it's probably happened. I know PT does it sometimes... best example that comes to mind is Sentimental. Yes; but, please allow me to elaborate... 'Odd' Time Signatures might be better referred to as 'Compound Meters.' Citing 7/4 as my favourite example, one might see it as either [3/4 + 4/4] or [3/4 + 4/4] -depending on how you'd like to count the beats. Further: 9/4 could be counted in several ways using [2/4, 3/4, & 4/4]. Remember, these are not fractions; these are meters -numbers of beats per measure/note that gets the beat. I'm suggesting simplifying compound meters by dividing them into simpler, more managable components -nothing more. III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus-1001001 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (MMCXII @ Oct 9 2008, 01:54 AM) I've been trying to learn how to identify time signatures in music and I remember hearing about a rush tune where Geddy/Alex play one beat and Neil plays another, then they meet and play the chorus together... anyone know what song this is? or is there more than one? I seem to remember the one I'm thinking of appears on ESL... are you thinking of Jacobs ladder ? Cause neil and alex play 5/4 and 6/4 over a 4/4 synth and vocal part at the start. Plus thats of ESL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMCXII Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 ok forgive me because I know nothing about identifying time signatures but all I remember is hearing about how Alex and Geddy were playing for example 3/8 and Neil was playing 8/3. then every 24 notes, they'd play the chorus together since 8x3=24.... something like that any way... does this make sense or am I on drugs? I even seem to remember it as a quote from Neil, maybe from one of his books and I thought the song was beneath,between and behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fledgehog Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 8/3 doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushringleader Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (rushdownunder @ Oct 9 2008, 04:00 AM) I guess you could throw in 'The Trees' as well, with its 3/4 intro. The Trees also has a 5/4 section. Its before the guitar solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushringleader Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (fledgehog @ Oct 9 2008, 12:43 PM) 8/3 doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Superconductor has a bit where Geddy and Alex are playing the riff in 7/4 (I think) and Neil's is cruising along in 4/4 and they all catch up at the bridge. Probably not what you're thinking of but cool none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (rushringleader @ Oct 9 2008, 09:38 AM)QUOTE (fledgehog @ Oct 9 2008, 12:43 PM) 8/3 doesn't exist. It could. Be a Bitch to count though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 pretty much everything from zappa . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 if you want some reall crazy time signatures check out mahavishnu orchestra - the inner mounting flame birds of fire the lost trident sessions killer stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanadu93 Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I think that the main riff in Yes' "Siberian Khatru" is in 15/4 time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushringleader Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (Xanadu93 @ Oct 9 2008, 03:54 PM) I think that the main riff in Yes' "Siberian Khatru" is in 15/4 time. Thats in 15/4?!? Nice. I have to listen to that and try to count it now. Now listening, and it definitely has 15 beats to the phrase. New question for the thread, how can you tell if its in 15/4 or just 3 4/4 with a 3/4 tacked on to a phrase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReRushed Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I couldn't care less about the time signature of a song. As long as I can tap my foot and enjoy a good melody, I'm fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (rushdownunder @ Oct 9 2008, 03:00 AM) I guess you could throw in 'The Trees' as well, with its 3/4 intro. Can't remember if 'Xanadu' does or not though. 3/4 doesn't count as an odd time signature... but it's kinda interesting you mention The Trees without mentioning the 5/4 in the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (rushringleader @ Oct 9 2008, 05:39 PM) Now listening, and it definitely has 15 beats to the phrase. New question for the thread, how can you tell if its in 15/4 or just 3 4/4 with a 3/4 tacked on to a phrase? You can't. They're essentially the same thing for notation's sake and exactly the same thing for listening's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagon Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/toddsuc...tearsofjoy.html if you can count this tune you know your stuff. the guy is a great drummer. he is the drummer for styx. you might think styx? well this dude is freaking amazing and then some. he just did the modern drummer festival with gavin harrison about a month ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 QUOTE (Pagon @ Oct 9 2008, 06:49 PM) http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/toddsuc...tearsofjoy.html if you can count this tune you know your stuff. the guy is a great drummer. he is the drummer for styx. you might think styx? well this dude is freaking amazing and then some. he just did the modern drummer festival with gavin harrison about a month ago. todd rules, i saw him years ago with styx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 QUOTE (Finbar @ Oct 9 2008, 04:14 PM) QUOTE (rushringleader @ Oct 9 2008, 05:39 PM) Now listening, and it definitely has 15 beats to the phrase. New question for the thread, how can you tell if its in 15/4 or just 3 4/4 with a 3/4 tacked on to a phrase? You can't. They're essentially the same thing for notation's sake and exactly the same thing for listening's sake. Somebody 'Gets It!' With '...essentially the same thing for notation's sake...' being the phrase. It depends on how you want to write it -which is easier; which makes the most sense to the most people; which most closely adheres to 'convention.' There're standards in most everything -musical notation being among the oldest and loosest. Notation is Italian, you know -by convention. I prefer it to tabulature. III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHands Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 QUOTE (Maestro @ Oct 9 2008, 07:15 PM) QUOTE (Finbar @ Oct 9 2008, 04:14 PM) QUOTE (rushringleader @ Oct 9 2008, 05:39 PM) Now listening, and it definitely has 15 beats to the phrase. New question for the thread, how can you tell if its in 15/4 or just 3 4/4 with a 3/4 tacked on to a phrase? You can't. They're essentially the same thing for notation's sake and exactly the same thing for listening's sake. Somebody 'Gets It!' With '...essentially the same thing for notation's sake...' being the phrase. It depends on how you want to write it -which is easier; which makes the most sense to the most people. III. Couldn't agree more... Limelight for example...I've seen notation in 7/4 bars, and in 3/4 bar then 4/4 bar. Personally, I like to break it down as far as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakly Criminal Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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