Vapor Trails vs. S&A

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2011, 11:22 PM)

QUOTE (Presto_a RUSH fan_06-08-90 @ Nov 29 2011, 09:17 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2011, 11:13 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Nov 29 2011, 10:07 AM) QUOTE (tjtull @ Nov 29 2011, 01:00 PM) QUOTE (ucsteve667 @ Nov 29 2011, 11:50 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2011, 11:48 AM) QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Nov 29 2011, 08:56 AM) Armor & Sword alone crushes everything on VT It's better than everything on VT put together. totally disagree I disagree as well. A&S is a good song, and I like it well enough, but I just don't get why so many fans fawn over it. I also like S&A a lot but for the reasons I stated earlier (songwriting, lyrics, overall album feel/mood/emotion), I'll take VT. The only issue I can truly say I have with Armor & Sword is that it's quite depressing. The mood of the song just keeps you in a downer throughout. I know my wife always says that when it comes on.   With that said, I still think that it's a fantastic song. It's built really well, and it displays their songwriting skills. The mood and tempo of the music match perfectly with the lyrical content throughout. I love Al's tone in the song, and even more so, I love those little notes that he plays in the last 40 seconds or so of the song while Ged repeats the chorus.   Chilling, but great! See, now I find it a very uplifting song. It's heavy, no doubt (although for some people who complain about S&A, heavy = fast, i think it's plenty heavy at the speed it's at), but that line of "no one gets to their heaven without a fight" just devastates me... in a good way. Seriously, the song is a masterpiece. i never thought they would have had it in them at this late date. Unbelievable...you posted your nonsense at the same minute as my nonsense. Look above your last post. I think you're Losing It. Again! And no lyric quoting on this craziness!   I calls 'em like I sees 'em. Do you have tinnitus as well? Maybe that is your problem? And last time I checked you can't "sees 'em" you "hears 'em"

[rushgoober]

Edited November 30, 2011 by rushgoober

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

[Gompers]

QUOTE (Presto_a RUSH fan_06-08-90 @ Nov 30 2011, 12:17 AM)

Unbelievable...you posted your nonsense at the same minute as my nonsense.  Look above your last post.  I think you're Losing It.  Again!  And no lyric quoting on this craziness!

Methinks you have been reading too many of RUSHHEAD666's posts.

[Gompers]

QUOTE (Presto_a RUSH fan_06-08-90 @ Nov 30 2011, 12:26 AM)

Do you have tinnitus as well?

Caused by listening to VT too loudly? Been there.

[Gompers]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 29 2011, 04:27 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2011, 11:48 AM) QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Nov 29 2011, 08:56 AM) Armor & Sword alone crushes everything on VT It's better than everything on VT put together. One Little Victory crushes all of S&A put together.     As much as I love OLV, this is laughable.

[Presto-digitation]

Still S&A.

 

Both fine albums. Look forward to one day hearing VT remixed. Still, song for song the choice for me is S&A. Just a more LUSH album. I love all the acoustic textures. Warmer album. VT's a heavier album, but overall I just prefer their latest.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Presto-digitation

[tjtull]

Edited November 30, 2011 by tjtull

[trenken]

I like the songs themselves a lot more on VT. The writing really was a lot more adventurous, and it sounded pretty modern, where I feel like many of the songs on S&A are just very dull, and sound dated due to it being influenced by what they did with Feedback.

 

But S&A of course sounds a hell of a lot better. To me the recording quality of VT is one of the biggest missteps this band ever took, thinking they could handle the recording themselves instead of hiring a guy who's specialty was just that. They obviously have no idea how to capture instruments.

 

Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. Did they ever need to do that pre-synth era? Nope.

 

But regardless I would still much rather listen to VT.

Edited November 30, 2011 by trenken

[Gompers]

QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM)

Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision.

That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex?

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 10:39 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM) Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex? +1

[malnar]

Despite the recording/mastering issues, VT ranks among Rush's best albums. All three members take chances and expand on their approaches to playing in ways I would have never imagined a band like Rush to attempt, especially this late in their career. Lifeson is all over the place going from some of his most organic overdriven guitar sounds to all kinds of cool layered and effects-oriented stuff. Backwards guitar, noise rock, ethereal soundscaping, cool riffing-it's all in there despite hardly a traditional guitar solo. Geddy is going all-out with his bass and vocals. I love all the chordal work, the fast flamenco stuff, and the multi-track layering of bass lines. His vocals too are amazing-he expands on techniques he had just touched upon on him solo album and sings with a passion I hadn't heard from him in decades. Neil pens his most personal, heart-felt lyrics EVER, and... have you heard that intro to One Little Victory?! This album just has a depth of feeling and vitality to it that makes most post '80's Rush output sound somewhat clinical and safe in comparison. While I like SnA as well (The Main Monkey Business is one of my favorites), as a whole album, it's not nearly as compelling or as wildly inventive as VT. Edited November 30, 2011 by malnar

[EmotionDetector]

Personally, I just think that VT has too many layers, too many 'Geddy Choirs', and not enough guitar solos...

[GUP1771]

QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 09:39 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM) Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex? There was a reason why he left the solos out, you know. He wasn't being arrogant thinking solely of himself. Vapor Trails was a period of healing. Remember, Rush make the music for themselves first, and fans second, which I respect them highly of. I'm not fond of Vapor Trails, mainly due to the production, but I understand the choices they made. I believe that the music was made as a recovery, transition period for the band to get together, and I believe there was an interview I read that mentioned that. Guitar solos or anything like that wouldn't be appropriate for the time and the purpose of Vapor Trails. You may think that's still a bad choice, and you're entitled to that, but I hope you at least know WHY he made that choice.   As for which is my favorite, I can't choose right now until I can give both a few more listens, particularly Vapor Trails. The production on that is making it hard to listen to. I have a feeling though that once it gets remixed, it could become one of my favorites. Until then, I'm undecided.

Edited November 30, 2011 by GUP1771

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (GUP1771 @ Nov 30 2011, 10:36 AM)

QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 09:39 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM) Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex? There was a reason why he left the solos out, you know. He wasn't being arrogant thinking solely of himself. Vapor Trails was a period of healing. Remember, Rush make the music for themselves first, and fans second, which I respect them highly of. I'm not fond of Vapor Trails, mainly due to the production, but I understand the choices they made. I believe that the music was made as a recovery, transition period for the band to get together. Guitar solos or anything like that wouldn't be appropriate for the time and the purpose of Vapor Trails.   As for which is my favorite, I can't choose right now until I can give both a few more listens, particularly Vapor Trails. The production on that is making it hard to listen to. I have a feeling though that once it gets remixed, it could become one of my favorites. Until then, I'm undecided. I've never heard of this theory before.   Jeez, be arrogant or selfish or inappropriate or whatever and give us some f*cking guitar solos.   Ah, too late now...

[ucsteve667]

funny how stubborn and pissed people get when they band does what they want and not what other people want them to do.

RUSH-Still Pissin People Off Since 2112

Love this band even more

[Gompers]

QUOTE (GUP1771 @ Nov 30 2011, 01:36 PM)

QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 09:39 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM) Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex? There was a reason why he left the solos out, you know. He wasn't being arrogant thinking solely of himself. Vapor Trails was a period of healing. Remember, Rush make the music for themselves first, and fans second, which I respect them highly of. I'm not fond of Vapor Trails, mainly due to the production, but I understand the choices they made. I believe that the music was made as a recovery, transition period for the band to get together, and I believe there was an interview I read that mentioned that. Guitar solos or anything like that wouldn't be appropriate for the time and the purpose of Vapor Trails. You may think that's still a bad choice, and you're entitled to that, but I hope you at least know WHY he made that choice. That was a reach.   Never heard anything of the sort in interviews. Seems like this would have been discussed.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (ucsteve667 @ Nov 30 2011, 02:36 PM)

funny how stubborn and pissed people get when they band does what they want and not what other people want them to do. RUSH-Still Pissin People Off Since 2112 Love this band even more

 

I don't think it has anything to do with that. We all know that they do what they want. If you're referring to the 'album without guitar solos' topic, sorry, but that is the truth.

 

Yes, I remember hearing that numerous times from Alex during the VT interviews. (There is also a reason why it came up often...because everyone was wondering where the hell the solos went!). Since when is putting together an awesome guitar solo considered "selfish"?? These guys all kick major ass at their respective instruments, so why not go all out and put that on record? ('Freewill' anyone?)

 

Besides, why would that all of sudden become an issue at that time? Remember, Vapor Trails was their 17th studio album...what about the first 16? I'm sorry...but it wasn't a very good reason. Alex's guitar solos are amazing, and have made so many of Rush's songs over the years as great as they are!

 

It's almost more selfish of him by NOT recording them for us!

[Gompers]

QUOTE (ucsteve667 @ Nov 30 2011, 02:36 PM)

funny how stubborn and pissed people get when they band does what they want and not what other people want them to do. RUSH-Still Pissin People Off Since 2112 Love this band even more

As I see it, lead solos are a staple in the Rush discography. The only reason I could see Alex not including solos was to mimic the solo-less music of Modern Rock at the time.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 02:42 PM)

QUOTE (GUP1771 @ Nov 30 2011, 01:36 PM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 09:39 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM) Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex? There was a reason why he left the solos out, you know. He wasn't being arrogant thinking solely of himself. Vapor Trails was a period of healing. Remember, Rush make the music for themselves first, and fans second, which I respect them highly of. I'm not fond of Vapor Trails, mainly due to the production, but I understand the choices they made. I believe that the music was made as a recovery, transition period for the band to get together, and I believe there was an interview I read that mentioned that. Guitar solos or anything like that wouldn't be appropriate for the time and the purpose of Vapor Trails. You may think that's still a bad choice, and you're entitled to that, but I hope you at least know WHY he made that choice. That was a reach.   Never heard anything of the sort in interviews. Seems like this would have been discussed. Yeah, I did hear it from Alex during that time in quite a few interviews (he was grilled about it often).   However, I still think it was a lame reasoning personally.

[ucsteve667]

heh...ED prove my point much, 3 posts later? ha Edited November 30, 2011 by ucsteve667

[Gompers]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Nov 30 2011, 02:45 PM)

QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 02:42 PM) QUOTE (GUP1771 @ Nov 30 2011, 01:36 PM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 09:39 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM) Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex? There was a reason why he left the solos out, you know. He wasn't being arrogant thinking solely of himself. Vapor Trails was a period of healing. Remember, Rush make the music for themselves first, and fans second, which I respect them highly of. I'm not fond of Vapor Trails, mainly due to the production, but I understand the choices they made. I believe that the music was made as a recovery, transition period for the band to get together, and I believe there was an interview I read that mentioned that. Guitar solos or anything like that wouldn't be appropriate for the time and the purpose of Vapor Trails. You may think that's still a bad choice, and you're entitled to that, but I hope you at least know WHY he made that choice. That was a reach.   Never heard anything of the sort in interviews. Seems like this would have been discussed. Yeah, I did hear it from Alex during that time in quite a few interviews (he was grilled about it often).   However, I still think it was a lame reasoning personally. Well it's news to me now!

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (ucsteve667 @ Nov 30 2011, 02:53 PM)

heh...ED prove my point much, 3 posts later? ha

No...I don't think so.

 

Trust me, I don't get "pissed off" by what Rush has done. Not at all.

 

In fact, I'm alot more 'Fanboi' then you think. If you read the majority of my posts, you'll notice that I like everything they've done in some capacity or another. I honestly consider myself a fan of all their work...every song. Honest.

 

As mentioned before, I still like VT alot. The album is great...but that doesn't mean that it still can't be better.

 

1) The production sucks and hurt the album IMO.

2) VT lacks guitar solos...that's obvious.

 

Like I said before, these guys are three of the greatest musicians ever. Why wouldn't I want to see each of them be "selfish" on their records? My theory is, if you have the talent, why not use it!?

[trenken]

QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 09:39 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM) Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex? Rush has ALWAYS been a band who reflects what's going on around them in popular rock music. Well guitar solos were viewed at as being really corny in the 2000s, so noone was really doing them, therefore Rush didnt.   Little hard to argue with them about it, they were following a formula they've used since they started, never do anything that's too far away from what's going on around them.   When prog was big before Rush came around, Rush did prog. When new wave came into style, Rush started doing that. When Nirvana and Pearl Jam got heavier, Rush came out with Counterparts, and in the 2000s when everyone ditched guitar solos, so did Rush. Not too hard to understand why they stopped doing them.   I thought it was a good decision. Im not into guitar solos anymore, they make a band sound dated to me. I just didnt like that they felt some need to fill in the sound with 50 layers of vocals.

Edited November 30, 2011 by trenken

[Gompers]

QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 03:44 PM)

QUOTE (Gompers @ Nov 30 2011, 09:39 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Nov 30 2011, 10:22 AM) Plus another major complain I have with VT is because they didnt want to do any guitar solos or synths, since they really are not in style anymore, Geddy felt this weird need to layer his vocals a lot to fill out the sound, which was a really poor decision. That really was a bad choice. No leads? WTF Alex? Rush has ALWAYS been a band who reflects what's going on around them in popular rock music. Well guitar solos were viewed at as being really corny in the 2000s, so noone was really doing them, therefore Rush didnt.   Little hard to argue with them about it, they were following a formula they've used since they started, never do anything that's too far away from what's going on around them.   When prog was big before Rush came around, Rush did prog. When new wave came into style, Rush started doing that. When Nirvana and Pearl Jam got heavier, Rush came out with Counterparts, and in the 2000s when everyone ditched guitar solos, so did Rush. Not too hard to understand why they stopped doing them.   I thought it was a good decision. Im not into guitar solos anymore, they make a band sound dated to me. I just didnt like that they felt some need to fill in the sound with 50 layers of vocals. I certainly understand them trying to mimic the current sound but I still struggle with the lack of leads. It could have meant for a much better release, in which case, some fans would be in a perpetual orgasm.