Do you think Neil stacks up well against

[treeduck]

Since Neil entered this musical arena himself with the Buddy Rich project I thought it would be interesting for a little comparison between him and the modern jazz and fusion greats, such as Dennis Chambers, Dave Weckl, Peter Erskine, Vinnie Colaiuta, Jeff sipe, Steve Gadd, Steve Smith, Manu Katche. How does he compare?

[goose]

You mention B4B. Listen to him side by side with these guys and he sounds pretty stiff. Rock is definitely his forte.

 

 

[treeduck]

QUOTE (goose @ Nov 24 2006, 05:35 PM)

You mention B4B. Listen to him side by side with these guys and he sounds pretty stiff. Rock is definitely his forte.

Yeah I noticed that...

[Earthshine]

He's better! None of those guys could do what he does.

 

But with practice and the right situation, he could do what they do and even better!

 

Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers...

 

 

There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike.

 

Neil is da man!

 

 

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM)

He's better! None of those guys could do what he does. But with practice and the right situation, he could do what they do and even better! Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike. Neil is da man!

Have you actually listened to those drummers you just mentioned? Doesn't seem so. Those four drummers are ridiculously talented, and they don't sound alike in any way. It's okay to say you LIKE Neil's playing better than theirs, but to say he's "light years ahead of them overall" is just plain incorrect. Colaiuta, for instance, is a great drummer who is extremely versatile. Pick a style -- jazz, rock, funk, fusion -- Colaiuta can do it, and do it with skill. He can play like Neil if called upon, but Neil can't play like him. Neil is a very gifted ROCK drummer, but that's about it. That's not a knock against him -- not at all. But he's just not that versatile.

[goose]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 24 2006, 06:10 PM)

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM) He's better! None of those guys could do what he does. But with practice and the right situation, he could do what they do and even better! Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike. Neil is da man!  Have you actually listened to those drummers you just mentioned? Doesn't seem so. Those four drummers are ridiculously talented, and they don't sound alike in any way. It's okay to say you LIKE Neil's playing better than theirs, but to say he's "light years ahead of them overall" is just plain incorrect. Colaiuta, for instance, is a great drummer who is extremely versatile. Pick a style -- jazz, rock, funk, fusion -- Colaiuta can do it, and do it with skill. He can play like Neil if called upon, but Neil can't play like him. Neil is a very gifted ROCK drummer, but that's about it. That's not a knock against him -- not at all. But he's just not that versatile.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 24 2006, 06:10 PM)

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM) He's better! None of those guys could do what he does. But with practice and the right situation, he could do what they do and even better! Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike. Neil is da man!  Have you actually listened to those drummers you just mentioned? Doesn't seem so. Those four drummers are ridiculously talented, and they don't sound alike in any way. It's okay to say you LIKE Neil's playing better than theirs, but to say he's "light years ahead of them overall" is just plain incorrect. Colaiuta, for instance, is a great drummer who is extremely versatile. Pick a style -- jazz, rock, funk, fusion -- Colaiuta can do it, and do it with skill. He can play like Neil if called upon, but Neil can't play like him. Neil is a very gifted ROCK drummer, but that's about it. That's not a knock against him -- not at all. But he's just not that versatile.   Yep...

[MUSICinTheABsTrAcT]

Nothing taken away from Neil (he is my favorite drummer), but Vinnie Colaiuta has so much ability he might as well be from another solar system.

[Cygnus27]

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM)

Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike.

Respectfully disagree. Neil is my fav drummer too, but he isn't in the same league as those drummers.

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (Cygnus27 @ Nov 24 2006, 11:19 PM)

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM) Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike. Respectfully disagree. Neil is my fav drummer too, but he isn't in the same league as those drummers. That's cool and I can dig it! Those guys are great indeed.

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 24 2006, 06:10 PM)

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM) He's better! None of those guys could do what he does. But with practice and the right situation, he could do what they do and even better! Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike. Neil is da man!  Have you actually listened to those drummers you just mentioned? Doesn't seem so. Those four drummers are ridiculously talented, and they don't sound alike in any way. It's okay to say you LIKE Neil's playing better than theirs, but to say he's "light years ahead of them overall" is just plain incorrect. Colaiuta, for instance, is a great drummer who is extremely versatile. Pick a style -- jazz, rock, funk, fusion -- Colaiuta can do it, and do it with skill. He can play like Neil if called upon, but Neil can't play like him. Neil is a very gifted ROCK drummer, but that's about it. That's not a knock against him -- not at all. But he's just not that versatile. Oh yeah. I have listened to them all and seen them all except for Dennis Chambers. They are great players!   I certainly know how great they all are, but in terms of originality, creativity, coming up with specific drum parts and drum "composition" and being a band player I much prefer Neil.   What I really meant about so many sounding like each other can be exemplified by the 80's trend of everyone trying to sound like the great Stephen Kendall Gadd.   When Vinnie came on the scene, it was more than obvious he was copping a lot of Gadd's licks, sound and style. Even on Frank Zappa Joe's Garage Act III ( I think that was the one) there is a song where Zappa is introducing the band and when it comes to Vinnie he says somewhat tongue in cheek, "our drummer Vinnie, well he's a Steve Gadd clone..."   Check out early Tom Coster albums for more proof of this.   And when Weckl came on the scene especially on that Bill Connors album (forgot which one; don't have it) it was more than obvious he was copping Gadd's licks all over the place. Great! Super! But I had heard Gadd do it all before.   Just in terms of actual drum sound, fills, etc. I feel a lot of them sound quite alike. E.g. the "Yamaha sound".   I hear a lot more individuality in guys like Rich, Bellson, Roach, Blakey, Jones (Papa Jo, Philly Joe and Elvin), Haynes, Morello and Cobham.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 25 2006, 12:02 AM)

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 24 2006, 06:10 PM) QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM) He's better! None of those guys could do what he does. But with practice and the right situation, he could do what they do and even better! Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike. Neil is da man!  Have you actually listened to those drummers you just mentioned? Doesn't seem so. Those four drummers are ridiculously talented, and they don't sound alike in any way. It's okay to say you LIKE Neil's playing better than theirs, but to say he's "light years ahead of them overall" is just plain incorrect. Colaiuta, for instance, is a great drummer who is extremely versatile. Pick a style -- jazz, rock, funk, fusion -- Colaiuta can do it, and do it with skill. He can play like Neil if called upon, but Neil can't play like him. Neil is a very gifted ROCK drummer, but that's about it. That's not a knock against him -- not at all. But he's just not that versatile. Oh yeah. I have listened to them all and seen them all except for Dennis Chambers. They are great players!   I certainly know how great they all are, but in terms of originality, creativity, coming up with specific drum parts and drum "composition" and being a band player I much prefer Neil.   What I really meant about so many sounding like each other can be exemplified by the 80's trend of everyone trying to sound like the great Stephen Kendall Gadd.   When Vinnie came on the scene, it was more than obvious he was copping a lot of Gadd's licks, sound and style. Even on Frank Zappa Joe's Garage Act III ( I think that was the one) there is a song where Zappa is introducing the band and when it comes to Vinnie he says somewhat tongue in cheek, "our drummer Vinnie, well he's a Steve Gadd clone..."   Check out early Tom Coster albums for more proof of this.   And when Weckl came on the scene especially on that Bill Connors album (forgot which one; don't have it) it was more than obvious he was copping Gadd's licks all over the place. Great! Super! But I had heard Gadd do it all before.   Just in terms of actual drum sound, fills, etc. I feel a lot of them sound quite alike. E.g. the "Yamaha sound".   I hear a lot more individuality in guys like Rich, Bellson, Roach, Blakey, Jones (Papa Jo, Philly Joe and Elvin), Haynes, Morello and Cobham. Hey did you put Dave Connors by mistake the first time? I thought I was seeing things for a sec before I saw the edit...

[Psykotikdr]

With Neil's talent and intellect he could easily get to a level very near each one of these drummers if he wanted to.

 

He's just not there yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Nov 25 2006, 12:16 AM)

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 25 2006, 12:02 AM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 24 2006, 06:10 PM) QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM) He's better! None of those guys could do what he does. But with practice and the right situation, he could do what they do and even better! Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike. Neil is da man!  Have you actually listened to those drummers you just mentioned? Doesn't seem so. Those four drummers are ridiculously talented, and they don't sound alike in any way. It's okay to say you LIKE Neil's playing better than theirs, but to say he's "light years ahead of them overall" is just plain incorrect. Colaiuta, for instance, is a great drummer who is extremely versatile. Pick a style -- jazz, rock, funk, fusion -- Colaiuta can do it, and do it with skill. He can play like Neil if called upon, but Neil can't play like him. Neil is a very gifted ROCK drummer, but that's about it. That's not a knock against him -- not at all. But he's just not that versatile. Oh yeah. I have listened to them all and seen them all except for Dennis Chambers. They are great players!   I certainly know how great they all are, but in terms of originality, creativity, coming up with specific drum parts and drum "composition" and being a band player I much prefer Neil.   What I really meant about so many sounding like each other can be exemplified by the 80's trend of everyone trying to sound like the great Stephen Kendall Gadd.   When Vinnie came on the scene, it was more than obvious he was copping a lot of Gadd's licks, sound and style. Even on Frank Zappa Joe's Garage Act III ( I think that was the one) there is a song where Zappa is introducing the band and when it comes to Vinnie he says somewhat tongue in cheek, "our drummer Vinnie, well he's a Steve Gadd clone..."   Check out early Tom Coster albums for more proof of this.   And when Weckl came on the scene especially on that Bill Connors album (forgot which one; don't have it) it was more than obvious he was copping Gadd's licks all over the place. Great! Super! But I had heard Gadd do it all before.   Just in terms of actual drum sound, fills, etc. I feel a lot of them sound quite alike. E.g. the "Yamaha sound".   I hear a lot more individuality in guys like Rich, Bellson, Roach, Blakey, Jones (Papa Jo, Philly Joe and Elvin), Haynes, Morello and Cobham. Hey did you put Dave Connors by mistake the first time? I thought I was seeing things for a sec before I saw the edit...   I sure did indeed! You miss nothing mate!

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 25 2006, 12:33 AM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Nov 25 2006, 12:16 AM) QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 25 2006, 12:02 AM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 24 2006, 06:10 PM) QUOTE (Earthshine @ Nov 24 2006, 05:56 PM) He's better! None of those guys could do what he does. But with practice and the right situation, he could do what they do and even better! Gadd, Weckl, Colaiuta, Chambers... There's no doubt Neil is light years ahead of them overall. He is much more original and is his own drummer. So many of those guys are great, but copy each other and therefore sound alike. Neil is da man!  Have you actually listened to those drummers you just mentioned? Doesn't seem so. Those four drummers are ridiculously talented, and they don't sound alike in any way. It's okay to say you LIKE Neil's playing better than theirs, but to say he's "light years ahead of them overall" is just plain incorrect. Colaiuta, for instance, is a great drummer who is extremely versatile. Pick a style -- jazz, rock, funk, fusion -- Colaiuta can do it, and do it with skill. He can play like Neil if called upon, but Neil can't play like him. Neil is a very gifted ROCK drummer, but that's about it. That's not a knock against him -- not at all. But he's just not that versatile. Oh yeah. I have listened to them all and seen them all except for Dennis Chambers. They are great players!   I certainly know how great they all are, but in terms of originality, creativity, coming up with specific drum parts and drum "composition" and being a band player I much prefer Neil.   What I really meant about so many sounding like each other can be exemplified by the 80's trend of everyone trying to sound like the great Stephen Kendall Gadd.   When Vinnie came on the scene, it was more than obvious he was copping a lot of Gadd's licks, sound and style. Even on Frank Zappa Joe's Garage Act III ( I think that was the one) there is a song where Zappa is introducing the band and when it comes to Vinnie he says somewhat tongue in cheek, "our drummer Vinnie, well he's a Steve Gadd clone..."   Check out early Tom Coster albums for more proof of this.   And when Weckl came on the scene especially on that Bill Connors album (forgot which one; don't have it) it was more than obvious he was copping Gadd's licks all over the place. Great! Super! But I had heard Gadd do it all before.   Just in terms of actual drum sound, fills, etc. I feel a lot of them sound quite alike. E.g. the "Yamaha sound".   I hear a lot more individuality in guys like Rich, Bellson, Roach, Blakey, Jones (Papa Jo, Philly Joe and Elvin), Haynes, Morello and Cobham. Hey did you put Dave Connors by mistake the first time? I thought I was seeing things for a sec before I saw the edit...   I sure did indeed! You miss nothing mate!

[mortkort]

He's better!

[lerxt1990]

There's LOTS of good drummers, eh? In the jazz genre, playing jazz music, I would not pick Neil (how would I know?). IN the rock arena, I certainly would put him right up there. In the marimba arena.. or is that xylophone ... vibes .... oh nevermind

[treeduck]

QUOTE (mortkort @ Nov 25 2006, 09:40 AM)

He's better!

At playing jazz, compared to Vinnie C and Dennis Chambers? Think about it for a minute, we're talking jazz or fusion, I didn't ask is Neil a better rock drummer than Dave Weckl...

 

 

[mortkort]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Nov 26 2006, 03:13 PM)

QUOTE (mortkort @ Nov 25 2006, 09:40 AM) He's better! At playing jazz, compared to Vinnie C and Dennis Chambers? Think about it for a minute, we're talking jazz or fusion, I didn't ask is Neil a better rock drummer than Dave Weckl... Well, maybe?

[lerxt1990]

My opinion of drummers (or other musicians) can also be colored by the bands they play with. I never particularly liked much of Terry Bozio's music with bands, but I think he's a darn good drummer. I may not like Prince, but then may see his drummer play a solo or at a clinic and then say WOW that guy can play! Very same for guitarists....(for me).

[mortkort]

ok, I think Neil is the best rock drummer, but i think he also is a good jazzdrummer, have you watched the videos of him playing the tribute to buddy rich thing? i has the jazz in him!

[goose]

QUOTE (mortkort @ Nov 26 2006, 06:05 PM)

ok, I think Neil is the best rock drummer, but i think he also is a good jazzdrummer, have you watched the videos of him playing the tribute to buddy rich thing? i has the jazz in him!

I've seen it, and think it shows how weak he is in the genre. For example - why would he insert his goofy cowbell thing into that particular solo?

 

[lerxt1990]

Big Band is also only one genre of jazz. I hear a lot of great drumming in jazz whose names I dont even know - its a different kind of music....

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Nov 26 2006, 03:13 PM)

QUOTE (mortkort @ Nov 25 2006, 09:40 AM) He's better! At playing jazz, compared to Vinnie C and Dennis Chambers? Think about it for a minute, we're talking jazz or fusion, I didn't ask is Neil a better rock drummer than Dave Weckl... I don't really consider Colaiuta and Chambers "Jazz drummers". More like funk and fusion. Vinnie can play just about anything on a drumkit, but to me he overplays most of the time. Chambers is great too on the drumkit. They would be totally lost playing timpani or xylophone parts from the classical repertoire. Neil probably would too!

[RUSHHEAD666]

WOW!

 

 

Eight of you say HE'S BETTER!!!

 

Neil will always be my favorite drummer on the planet until I die.

 

But putting Neil in a Jazz session you will instantly see his fluidity evaporate.

 

Just watch those Buddy Rich Memorial Tapes. He is way too stiff and you can see the insecurities in his playing and body language as well.

 

He pulls off "Cotton Tail" alright but man he botches that other tune. Even drops his stick but the cleverly edit it out.

 

Why do you guys think he went to Eddie Gruber? He was embarrassed about those sessions and wanted to "relearn" his drumming skills. So he took a year off to "fokk" with his own incredible style.

 

That's one thing that bugs me about the new Neil kit configuration. I miss the old kits but hey that's life.

 

I have said this on here before and I will say it again incase it was missed.

 

My parents bumped into Steve Smith on vacation on the beach and they started talking. When my dad told him that I was a drummer and was totally influenced by Neil, Steve told my dad that when Neil is in his own world, meaning RUSH MUSIC, there is no one like him on the planet. However, when you take Neil out of his element and place him in a big band/jazz environment he is quite uncomfortable. Steve told my dad that Neil was very hard to work with during the "Burning For Buddy Sessions."

 

Take my story for what it's worth. It's true.

 

 

If you guys have noticed over the last two tours after VP he is slowly going back to the standard matchstick grip vs the traditional.

Of course he still uses both styles.

 

I think Neil is actually a very humble dude. If you watch those two drumming dvds with him you can really see it. That's "A Work In Progress" and "Anatomy Of A Drum Solo." Great stuff!

 

Of course I am sure everyone one this forum has seen them.

 

 

RUSH ON!