Star Trek

[JohnRogers]

[grep]

Strange New Worlds S2E01.    Killing it right out of the gate. 


 

[Mosher]

I actually found the first episode of season 2 for SNW to be the least interesting of all of them.

 

Still good, but a bit disappointing considering last season.

 

From the reviews it gets much much better, and like I said, it was good.

 

Very happy that Klingons look right. 

 

Not sure about Carol Kane. I was really happy to see her, but not sure if it will wear it it's welcome. Maybe too quirky. Maybe not. Time will tell.

 

I do think it's a great show though, and I'm certain the season will be great overall

[KenJennings]

Yeah I found this to be one of the weakest episodes of SNW yet. The pacing was frustrating, the plot was underdeveloped, and the characterizations just felt off. The story could've worked as a two parter, given a little time to breath, and with a little bit more thought put into some of the silly action sequences.

 

Looking forward to a rebound next week.

[JohnRogers]

13 hours ago, grep said:

Strange New Worlds S2E01.    Killing it right out of the gate. 


 

Agreed 98.7%

 

10 hours ago, Mosher said:

I actually found the first episode of season 2 for SNW to be the least interesting of all of them.

 

Still good, but a bit disappointing considering last season.

 

From the reviews it gets much much better, and like I said, it was good.

 

Very happy that Klingons look right. 

 

Not sure about Carol Kane. I was really happy to see her, but not sure if it will wear it it's welcome. Maybe too quirky. Maybe not. Time will tell.

 

I do think it's a great show though, and I'm certain the season will be great overall

The part of me that takes Trek too seriously, "really, we're stealing a starship again"? I quickly decided to roll with and enjoy the ride. I would have preferred something more creative than Super-Adrenalin injection then humans kicking Klingon ass. Then of course the super soft Starfleet discipline at the end. Carol Kane is doing some accent? Stop it.

 

I was thrilled for a new episode. My wife chuckled at all the right moments. Spock drinking with the Kligons at the end made me smile.

 

[KenJennings]

 

I've never watched an episode of Star Trek before where I found myself checking the time to see how much longer it was going to be drawn out. I normally love Star Trek's courtroom procedurals, but this one was so monotone and shallow that I struggled to get through it.

 

I fear Akiva Goldsman is getting to exert too much influence over SNW in it's second season. Where Henry Alonso Meyer deserves credit for the brilliant tone and execution of season one, I'm sensing him being pushed aside by Kurzman's hack sidekick who has missed the mark with every attempt he's made. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope they turn it around. Paramount has two rockstar showrunners in the Star Trek franchise: Terry Matalas and Henry Alonzo Meyer. They need to empower those guys and get the other clowns out of the kitchen. Unfortunately, they don't seem to get it.

[Mosher]

6 hours ago, KenJennings said:

 

I've never watched an episode of Star Trek before where I found myself checking the time to see how much longer it was going to be drawn out. I normally love Star Trek's courtroom procedurals, but this one was so monotone and shallow that I struggled to get through it.

 

I fear Akiva Goldsman is getting to exert too much influence over SNW in it's second season. Where Henry Alonso Meyer deserves credit for the brilliant tone and execution of season one, I'm sensing him being pushed aside by Kurzman's hack sidekick who has missed the mark with every attempt he's made. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope they turn it around. Paramount has two rockstar showrunners in the Star Trek franchise: Terry Matalas and Henry Alonzo Meyer. They need to empower those guys and get the other clowns out of the kitchen. Unfortunately, they don't seem to get it.

What I read was that the season picks up after the second episode- presumably because they wanted to wrap Number One's case. I liked the episode, but I agree that it really moved slow. The monologues were too long, circling the same point again and again. 

But I still liked the episode. I remain very optimistic as my understanding is that the remaining episodes are better.

[KenJennings]

There we go. Finally some solid Star Trek. Loved the way it fit into canon, and thought it had great attention to detail.

[grep]

35 minutes ago, KenJennings said:

There we go. Finally some solid Star Trek. Loved the way it fit into canon, and thought it had great attention to detail.

I think it It fits into multiple canons. 

[grep]

Not gonna' lie - I think that was the single most important time travel episode so far. 

Because it explains how it's possible that all these different 'timeline' or 'universes' could possible exist.

Just one example - and I hope i'm not spoiling - we see that the existence of a white Khan is possible. So for me, that validates the JJverse differences.... and I hate the JJverse.  But there you have it.

 

[JohnRogers]

23 hours ago, KenJennings said:

There we go. Finally some solid Star Trek. Loved the way it fit into canon, and thought it had great attention to detail.

 

21 hours ago, grep said:

Not gonna' lie - I think that was the single most important time travel episode so far. 

Because it explains how it's possible that all these different 'timeline' or 'universes' could possible exist.

Just one example - and I hope i'm not spoiling - we see that the existence of a white Khan is possible. So for me, that validates the JJverse differences.... and I hate the JJverse.  But there you have it.

 

I'm going to have to re-watch this episode. I found it a "meh" time travel episode, felt like I've been down this road before. I should have loved it, time travel to present day Earth, Kirk, a Challenger Wide Body. Should be noted I watched this after a long day on the road, distractions from the family and the dog staying with us. So I may have not been in the right head space.

[KenJennings]

This week's two episodes were both solid.

 

The lower decks crossover was a bit cringe, but still fun enough. The annoying behavior of Boimler and Mariner in true colors was even more off putting than I feared.

 

The Uhura focused "Lost in Translation" was a stellar episode, which seemed like a love letter to TNG's mind bending "Eye Of the Beholder", without being directly linked in any way. SNW should lean into these smaller stories. Save the crazy sfx budgets for some massive cinematic story once or twice a season; these heartfelt, thinky, bottle episodes are the meat and potatoes of Star Trek.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by KenJennings

[JohnRogers]

1 hour ago, KenJennings said:

This week's two episodes were both solid.

 

The lower decks crossover was a bit cringe, but still fun enough. The annoying behavior of Boimler and Mariner in true colors was even more off putting than I feared.

 

The Uhura focused "Lost in Translation" was a stellar episode, which seemed like a love letter to TNG's mind bending "Eye Of the Beholder", without being directly linked in any way. SNW should lean into these smaller stories. Save the crazy sfx budgets for some massive cinematic story once or twice a season; these heartfelt, thinky, bottle episodes are the meat and potatoes of Star Trek.

 

 

Hmmm, I'm a big fan of Lower Decks have been looking forward to Those Old Scientists for months.

 

I'm a little behind playing catch-up. Do I need to have seen Lost In Translation to get everything in Those Old Scientists? I have to show my wife an episode of Lower Decks tonight before the crossover episode and there is only so much Trek she'll handle in one evening.

[KenJennings]

6 hours ago, JohnRogers said:

Hmmm, I'm a big fan of Lower Decks have been looking forward to Those Old Scientists for months.

 

I'm a little behind playing catch-up. Do I need to have seen Lost In Translation to get everything in Those Old Scientists? I have to show my wife an episode of Lower Decks tonight before the crossover episode and there is only so much Trek she'll handle in one evening.

 

The two episodes are unrelated, so watching out of order shouldn't cause big issues. That being said, I think some Lower Decks context would be beneficial.

[Mosher]

I wasn't even aware I could watch the crossover episode so soon after the Uhura episode. 

I look forward to the crossover, haven't seen it yet.

Loved everything about the pure Star Trek nature of "Lost in Translation"- EXCEPT- I thought they avoided important and easily answered problems because of some lazy transitional writing. 

The biggest one: there's absolutely no way Pike doesn't agree to confine Uhura to quarters. They want her out of course because it's an Uhura episode. So just make delusional Uhura disobey orders. Easy.  

Nevertheless, this was a very good episode with great character work overall. Recognizing that Star Trek should be an ensemble show is critical, and they're getting it right. They need to work Una back into the stories more, she's in danger of being a second in command frozen out of importance like Chakotay was. (I was never a big fan of Chakotay as written, but Una's fan. So use her.)

And it would be wonderful to write an episode for Ortegas. She needs more depth. 

I don't much like Pelia's character. They need to unravel the comic relief/arrogance/lack of respect character traits into something that makes sense on board their ship. Too many notes to play convincingly without wondering why she wants the job and why she gets to keep the job. They can fix it, and I hope they do. 

I also think they are way overusing Kirk. 

He's getting in the way of characters that are actually members of the crew who could be written into the purposes he's been serving. They must be looking at rebooting TOS, which I'm fine with if it's good (although it's unnecessary). I am not bothered by the portrayal. It just seems like they're trying too hard to appeal to casual fans by inserting Kirk. 

This is still exactly what I wanted from Star Trek, and I really want to emphasize that. Any criticisms are mild. This is easily my favorite Star Trek since DS9.

[grep]

8 hours ago, Mosher said:

And it would be wonderful to write an episode for Ortegas. She needs more depth. 
 

 

I think that will happen.  She's a war hero after all.   Oops. Did I just spoil the future a little?  :)

[JohnRogers]

21 minutes ago, grep said:

 

I think that will happen.  She's a war hero after all.   Oops. Did I just spoil the future a little?  :)

In the trailer for season two there is some action packed shuttle flying she does.

 

Those Old Scientists was a slight letdown for me. All I'll say is the hype, the hype I built up in my head, not enough Mariner.  Boimler and Mariner work best as foils for one another.

 

I haven't even seen Lost In Translation yet. Still, I get what @Mosher is warning about, over using Kirk.

 

Season 4 Lower Decks trailer.

 

 

[Mosher]

Just watched the crossover episode.

 

I can honestly say I lived every single second of it.

 

I didn't think it would work very well but it may be one of my all time favorites. 

 

A brave choice. 

 

And it worked.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Mosher

[KenJennings]

I'm so irritated with the writers of this show

 

The futility and immorality of vengeance is one of the deepest and most important values Star Trek has imparted over its legacy.

 

Then these writers just decide to hell with that? Gross.

 

Tuvix and In the Pale Moonlight used to stand out as examples of our protagonists crossing immoral lines; but at least they had damn good cause in those cases... not just petty vengeance and a self deluded sense of justice.

 

This is one episode I'm just going to have to ignore. Everything tied to the nuTrek portrayal of the Klingon War has been awful.

[Mosher]

I was very surprised by the choice they made as well. It's a very human choice, and the show at least went to great effort to really underline the trauma he suffered and more importantly witnessed. It showed us a lot of motivation. It even made Chapel complicit. It also showed that La'an and Pike don't buy it 

 

It's not a Trek choice. Star Trek had been there before, though, with character intent. Data firing the illegal weapon at the same second he's rescued- dissipating the  blast in the beam up. So no consequence, but he did it. 

 

Kira was close a few times. Worf has actually done this. We forgive it because he's Klingon. But he's also star Fleet. Though they reign him in before he goes this far.

 

I actually really liked the episode, but it would be a more Trek story if M'Bega had been trying to counsel another person against this act, or tried to stop another person last second. 

 

So why do I like it? Because I think I trust the show to grow him out of this over time. It's a dark time for Chapel, too, who shares this guilt. I believe this will have consequences and will lead to a more Trek mind set.

 

I hated the Tuvix decision. It's my least favorite thing Voyager ever did. It was a fail, and I'm glad the Doctor was against it. 

 

This was a fail as well, but I didn't hate it. Probably because I think the psychological trauma faced in SNW was far more than that faced in Voyager. 

 

My hope is that unlike Voyager, there's no reset on SNW.

 

This was a huge mistake. If it is treated as a huge mistake, it could help support what Trek is. He and Chapel must suffer for this decision, or I'll have to re-evaluate the episode. 

 

But as a human story it was fantastically acted. 

 

I reserve full judgment until I see if this carries weight into next season 

 

But right now I really liked this episode a lot. 

It has to matter, though. And it has to be seen as a failing with consequence.

[KenJennings]

58 minutes ago, Mosher said:

It's not a Trek choice. Star Trek had been there before, though, with character intent. Data firing the illegal weapon at the same second he's rescued- dissipating the  blast in the beam up. So no consequence, but he did it.

 

I don't believe this. Data would've never lied about it, not even through omission. He also would've been justified, as at that moment, it was his belief that it was the only way to stop Fajo.

 

The decision at the end of The Most Toys is ultimately a poor writing decision meant to introduce ambiguity for no good reason, when really, it leaves the only rational answer is that it was a transporter glitch.

 

Quote

Kira was close a few times. Worf has actually done this. We forgive it because he's Klingon. But he's also star Fleet. Though they reign him in before he goes this far.

 

Kira not being Starfleet is held to another standard, and I can't recall her ever crossing that line. Worf certainly did, but was at least dressed down by his captain for it.

[Mosher]

38 minutes ago, KenJennings said:

 

I don't believe this. Data would've never lied about it, not even through omission. He also would've been justified, as at that moment, it was his belief that it was the only way to stop Fajo.

 

The decision at the end of The Most Toys is ultimately a poor writing decision meant to introduce ambiguity for no good reason, when really, it leaves the only rational answer is that it was a transporter glitch.

 

 

Kira not being Starfleet is held to another standard, and I can't recall her ever crossing that line. Worf certainly did, but was at least dressed down by his captain for it.

I always believed Data did shoot. He lost control- a human moment intended to grow his character. And yes, there was reason, regardless.

And as I said, my hope is that there will be consequences down the road and not a reset- because that's the only thing that makes this choice work for me. It's critical that this doesn't end here- because you're correct. It was NOT a good decision and it was out of line with Trek philosophy. And importantly I don't think it's meant to look like a correct decision. 

Time will tell. If it really just ends like this then it fails. 

I think the show intends more. 

It's been demonstrated that O'Brien could have behaved similarly. He avoids it- but he considers it. A younger O'Brien, more fresh from the events of the Cardassian war- who knows. Star Trek has always, Worf aside, allowed our heroes to rise above their worst instincts. I really think this will be used to strengthen M'Bega in future stories. Another similar event where he chooses differently, maybe. Or sees himself in another behaving that way and reflects and confesses. 

Something for next season.

I'm truly optimistic. 

[Mosher]

I should add that M'Bega has never been interested in talking about the events, and the show intentionally left the death behind opaque glass. 

 

So while we believe we know the doctor killed in cold blood, we don't know exactly what happened. That may have been to soften or shock at his actions, but it may have been to hold things back to tell us later.

 

It's a reach, but maybe the ambassador thought M'Bega would expose him and really did start that fight right then.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Mosher

[grep]

Nah, M'Benga completed the mission.

That's how I see it.

Edited July 28, 2023 by grep

[KenJennings]

 

"In television we have the choice of encouraging others to demean this life, or to cherish it, in creative or imaginative ways."

 

I've been thinking about the latest episode a lot, more than I probably should. Particularly, why it so upset me. By coincidence, I stumbled across this clip of Mr Rodgers that answered so clearly what I was feeling.

 

To me, Star Trek has always represented a higher standard. Even when I couldn't live up to it in this life- it represented a future where we cherished life; where we were a cut above the rough hewn inner tumult of today. I just expect better. Star Trek used to be special, it used to be the show to buck the trends and defy the norms- insisting on positivity and hope as the parable. This week's episode fell short on that front. It may not be the first to have done so, but it feels like the most severe so far.