Star Trek

[Mosher]

4 hours ago, KenJennings said:

 

"In television we have the choice of encouraging others to demean this life, or to cherish it, in creative or imaginative ways."

 

I've been thinking about the latest episode a lot, more than I probably should. Particularly, why it so upset me. By coincidence, I stumbled across this clip of Mr Rodgers that answered so clearly what I was feeling.

 

To me, Star Trek has always represented a higher standard. Even when I couldn't live up to it in this life- it represented a future where we cherished life; where we were a cut above the rough hewn inner tumult of today. I just expect better. Star Trek used to be special, it used to be the show to buck the trends and defy the norms- insisting on positivity and hope as the parable. This week's episode fell short on that front. It may not be the first to have done so, but it feels like the most severe so far.

I agree with you while heartedly. I want my star Trek future, I always have. 

 

Please don't misunderstand. I don't think M'Bega made the right choice. These things were struggled with in old Trek. 

 

He had better solutions. 

 

I'm choosing to believe this will be an area for him to grow in. 

 

I am a big fan of human failings still existing, even in Trek. Characters have had to overcome prejudice (O'Brien with Cardassians), uninformed bias (Riker with Ensign Ro), to name others. This was a killing. Was it murder? We didn't see what happened. They deliberately hid that. But however it happened it was avoidable. 

 

 

 

 

M'Bega and Chapel are still human. They have human failings. And they suffered severe trauma. The question to me is will this push towards the ideal, or will it be dropped as an okay result.

 

Right now I believe SNW has recovered the missing piece Picard and Discovery dropped. It's more positive overall (unlike Discovery)  and ethically more grounded (unlike Picard).

 

I'm trusting that this comes back.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Mosher

[JohnRogers]

6 hours ago, KenJennings said:

 

"In television we have the choice of encouraging others to demean this life, or to cherish it, in creative or imaginative ways."

 

I've been thinking about the latest episode a lot, more than I probably should. Particularly, why it so upset me. By coincidence, I stumbled across this clip of Mr Rodgers that answered so clearly what I was feeling.

 

To me, Star Trek has always represented a higher standard. Even when I couldn't live up to it in this life- it represented a future where we cherished life; where we were a cut above the rough hewn inner tumult of today. I just expect better. Star Trek used to be special, it used to be the show to buck the trends and defy the norms- insisting on positivity and hope as the parable. This week's episode fell short on that front. It may not be the first to have done so, but it feels like the most severe so far.

 

2 hours ago, Mosher said:

I agree with you while heartedly. I want my star Trek future, I always have. 

 

Please don't misunderstand. I don't think M'Bega made the right choice. These things were struggled with in old Trek. 

 

He had better solutions. 

 

I'm choosing to believe this will be an area for him to grow in. 

 

I am a big fan of human failings still existing, even in Trek. Characters have had to overcome prejudice (O'Brien with Cardassians), uninformed bias (Riker with Ensign Ro), to name others. This was a killing. Was it murder? We didn't see what happened. They deliberately hid that. But however it happened it was avoidable. 

 

 

 

 

M'Bega and Chapel are still human. They have human failings. And they suffered severe trauma. The question to me is will this push towards the ideal, or will it be dropped as an okay result.

 

Right now I believe SNW has recovered the missing piece Picard and Discovery dropped. It's more positive overall (unlike Discovery)  and ethically more grounded (unlike Picard).

 

I'm trusting that this comes back.

I mini binged Lost in Translation and what was this called, Cloak of War? I found I enjoyed these episodes very much, maybe it was the edibles, some of this season has been hit 'n miss for me. Interesting we have now seen Kirk three times, yet really only Kirk Prime once. I get what KJ was saying, I also get what Ronald D Moore has said about writing for Trek. Star Fleet has a complex quasi-military mission, they're Americo Vespucio and Jacque Cousteau in times of peace, they're Patton and Yamato in times of war. Unlike the USA, the Federation isn't constantly looking for excuses to go to war.  Sorry, shouldn't have gotten all SOCN. This episode does a great job reminding us of the time period, the war with the Klingons is just over but the wounds are still fresh. In this episode we're dealing with war crimes, atrocities. Pike the eagle scout represents the high ideals of Star Fleet. People can an do fall short. We know McCoy eventually replaces M'Bega, maybe a future court martial hearing finds M'Bega guilty?

 

So keeping ST timelines correct. In the original series the Federation and Kligons are in a Cold War? I seem to remember the war being pretty hot at times.

 

[Mosher]

I don't think  McCoy replaces M'Bega, because M'Bega appears in the original series. He was presented as a doctor who understood Vulcan medicine. Famously slaps Spock repeatedly. But he does leave at some point, that's true. 
But you make a very good point. The war is fresh for Chapel and M'Bega. 
And here we have a man pretending that M'Bega's actions were his own, covering up his cowardice with a cloak of righteous valor as he becomes the glowing example of peace, while M'Bega and Chapel are both fully aware that he is lying- because they know for a fact he did not perform the actions. M'Bega did. So not only do they know he's the original villain, they know he did not change course and stop the slaughter. He ran away and is now pretending to be a hero. 

That's a lot for M'Bega and Chapel to unpack when filtered through the lens of their own traumatic experiences. 

It wasn't the better example Star Trek aspires to, but it is understandable. Especially when we don't actually know the full extent of the events unfolding behind an opaque screen. 

I think the whole thing is set up to bring M'Bega closer to the Trek ideal down the road. 

It's not the Star Trek way and it's important that is remembered. KenJennings isn't wrong there. 

I want my Trek to show humans succeeding to be our better selves through challenging circumstances. I want it too be hard. To be a journey. Because that's a stronger lesson for human now. To see people working hard to overcome their failings and succeeding is stronger than seeing them succeed every time. At least to me. If M'Bega grows into a better version of himself after this it will make this episode great. Right now I still really liked it. Because it wasn't painted as correct. This event, like the war itself, will be a demon in the minds of both Chapel and M'Bega. That could be a very powerful dramatic note for growth down the road.

 

[JohnRogers]

[KenJennings]

16 hours ago, JohnRogers said:

 

 

This is a great moment to nightlight, because the point of Star Trek VI is to let go of outdated, meaningless divisions and to embrace peace when it offers itself up.

 

"You've restored my father's faith."
 ... "You've restored my son's."

[KenJennings]

14 hours ago, JohnRogers said:

This being an in-canon conspiracy theory makes me so happy. It warms my heart that, even in utopia, people distrust power.

[Mosher]

An incredibly silly set up, but to their credit their is zero attempt to make it seem plausible.

 

The point is to have fun, and do they ever! 

 

Term has gifted us Tribbles, while cultures built off of stereotypical mob gangsters, ok corral shootouts, etc. All contrivances for a fun episode.

 

I loved everything about this episode. 

 

Best song: Chapel. 

Runners up: Kirk/Una duet

 

Some sad songs, great voices, and funny moments.

 

Quibble: please let Ortegas do something.

 

 

[grep]

Wrath of Khan tie-in was kinda neat.   I don't mean La'an.

Edited August 8, 2023 by grep

[JohnRogers]

On 8/7/2023 at 7:31 AM, Mosher said:

An incredibly silly set up, but to their credit their is zero attempt to make it seem plausible.

 

The point is to have fun, and do they ever! 

 

Term has gifted us Tribbles, while cultures built off of stereotypical mob gangsters, ok corral shootouts, etc. All contrivances for a fun episode.

 

I loved everything about this episode. 

 

Best song: Chapel. 

Runners up: Kirk/Una duet

 

Some sad songs, great voices, and funny moments.

 

Quibble: please let Ortegas do something.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, grep said:

Wrath of Khan tie-in was kinda neat.   I don't mean La'an.

Maybe 10mg edibles had an effect on my opinion. This was fracking fun. TOS started the tradition of an occasional campy/fun episode. This worked well, sometimes even great. My wife came in from the den/office, "is that Klingons signing"? Afterwords I went right into the DS9 episode Little Green Men.

 

I believe Star Trek/Community Theatre nerds will be learning some of the songs to sing while building sets.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by JohnRogers

[grep]

Holy Shit!

[JohnRogers]

4 hours ago, grep said:

Holy Shit!

That did end with A Best of Both Worlds cliffhanger vibe.

 

Spoiler

Montgomery Scott needs to transfer to Enterprise when this resumes.

 

[Mosher]

On 8/11/2023 at 4:01 PM, JohnRogers said:

That did end with A Best of Both Worlds cliffhanger vibe.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Montgomery Scott needs to transfer to Enterprise when this resumes.

 

Absolutely. It actually works for me, and gradually advancing things forward makes sense as an arc for the show.

I'm not keen on this particular enemy, but not overly opposed either, as long as they continue to remember that there's always a better way, even if they are struggling to find it. And they have been acknowledging this. 

Really hope the strikes are settled favorably so work on this can continue. What a great show. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Mosher

[JohnRogers]

Chad isn't wrong.

https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2023/08/17/star-trek-shoudnt-reboot-any-properties-just-fill-in-the-holes-as-needed/

[Mosher]

22 hours ago, JohnRogers said:

Chad isn't wrong.

https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2023/08/17/star-trek-shoudnt-reboot-any-properties-just-fill-in-the-holes-as-needed/

I fully agree about not rebooting, however I have always wanted Trek to go into the future, or another ship every time.

 

Going into the past always forces unnecessary continuity challenges. 

 

The future is better.

 

I'm tired of going into the past ( although strange new worlds is fantastic)

[JohnRogers]

[grep]

5 hours ago, JohnRogers said:

The trash compactor monster is definitely going to eat the red-shirt.

[JohnRogers]

It's a soundtrack album and the opening theme is the best version. Musical theatre Trek Nerds, rejoice! 

[JohnRogers]

[JohnRogers]

I vehemently disagree. After the initial surprise it grew on me quickly, functioning as intended. A unique aspect of Enterprise.

 

https://www.slashfilm.com/1371589/star-trek-enterprise-theme-song-controversy-explained/

[Mosher]

4 hours ago, JohnRogers said:

I vehemently disagree. After the initial surprise it grew on me quickly, functioning as intended. A unique aspect of Enterprise.

 

https://www.slashfilm.com/1371589/star-trek-enterprise-theme-song-controversy-explained/

I never liked that theme song, I thought it was a mistake to have lyrics and a pop song necessarily dates a show in a way that orchestral music doesn't. All music will place a show in a moment in time, but in a sci-fi show about the future it's even more important to try and place your themes into the future. 

Orchestral arrangements don't date the same way because they are used consistently over decades and therefore don't feel out of place the same way a pop song would. 

I do like the title sequence, but the song was a mistake. 

Have to disagree with you here. 

I do think the article was bizarrely cruel to the performer, though. My objection is mostly that it was a pop song at all. I certainly would have objected to U2 as well.

A current pop song will make a futuristic show feel dated immediately. 

Firefly- which as you can see I am a small fan of- was an exception to this. Because Firefly was intentionally a western in space, the music was fine. 

Star Trek is not that. 

 

[JohnRogers]

27 minutes ago, Mosher said:

I never liked that theme song, I thought it was a mistake to have lyrics and a pop song necessarily dates a show in a way that orchestral music doesn't. All music will place a show in a moment in time, but in a sci-fi show about the future it's even more important to try and place your themes into the future. 

Orchestral arrangements don't date the same way because they are used consistently over decades and therefore don't feel out of place the same way a pop song would. 

I do like the title sequence, but the song was a mistake. 

Have to disagree with you here. 

I do think the article was bizarrely cruel to the performer, though. My objection is mostly that it was a pop song at all. I certainly would have objected to U2 as well.

A current pop song will make a futuristic show feel dated immediately. 

Firefly- which as you can see I am a small fan of- was an exception to this. Because Firefly was intentionally a western in space, the music was fine. 

Star Trek is not that. 

 

I big fan of “space theme for nerds”, I listen to the original Battlestar Galactica opening theme often. I think the point they were trying to make with using a pop song was this was a Star Trek show that wasn’t in a far off distant future. You can see the same theme in the uniforms that look like current day flight suits. 

[Mosher]

2 hours ago, JohnRogers said:

I big fan of “space theme for nerds”, I listen to the original Battlestar Galactica opening theme often. I think the point they were trying to make with using a pop song was this was a Star Trek show that wasn’t in a far off distant future. You can see the same theme in the uniforms that look like current day flight suits. 

I do get that, that's actually why I like the title sequence visuals. It did set up the feel of a natural progression from the Wright Brothers to Enterprise very well.

 

It's okay that some like the song. It wouldn't be there if no one liked it.

 

 

[JohnRogers]

moopsy 

[grep]

Hello Snips.  Didn't expect to see you so soon.....

[JohnRogers]

This will spark some debate. The animated series is not included. I don't think any DISCO belongs on the list, I can think of Lower Decks episodes deserving those slots. One of my favorites made the Top Five.

 

https://variety.com/lists/best-star-trek-episodes/the-visitor/