Vapor Trails Songs - Original VS Remix

[_hi_water._]

Most people like the remix better then the original mix, but some of those people enjoy only a select few songs from the original a little better, or vice versa obviously. It's time to see if any of the songs from the Original are voted as better than their Remixed versions...

 

Personally, I prefer the Original Mix, with the exception of Sweet Miracle and How It Is. I recently listened to the remix again, and I really got into the remixed version of How It Is. I still see this song as the weakest one on the album, (so that tells you how great this album is!). I didn't really like the song before but the remix has given me a newfound appreciation for it. The lyrics are great!

 

 

Totally - 'How it Is' really comes alive in the remix.

 

Simply put, I prefer the remix because it doesn't hurt my ears. Kinda basic, production 101: don't physically assault the listener.

How It Is ...

 

probably the only song that got improved in the remix

I feel the exact same way. Maybe because its the least heaviest song?

maybe, but I felt like the strings dynamics got lost in the original mix, and some of the voice clippings were out of nowhere

[vaportrailer]

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

My best off VT are Earthshine, Ghost Rider, and Vapor Trail.

 

Got to love these guys:

http://youtu.be/FcpqLgAV7iQ

 

That was a damn good episode. Cory and Trevor boasting of crawling through the sewer to see Aaron Carter/Backstreet Boys.

[vaportrailer]

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

[goose]

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

:goodone:

[condemned2bfree]

Most people like the remix better then the original mix, but some of those people enjoy only a select few songs from the original a little better, or vice versa obviously. It's time to see if any of the songs from the Original are voted as better than their Remixed versions...

 

Personally, I prefer the Original Mix, with the exception of Sweet Miracle and How It Is. I recently listened to the remix again, and I really got into the remixed version of How It Is. I still see this song as the weakest one on the album, (so that tells you how great this album is!). I didn't really like the song before but the remix has given me a newfound appreciation for it. The lyrics are great!

 

 

Totally - 'How it Is' really comes alive in the remix.

 

Simply put, I prefer the remix because it doesn't hurt my ears. Kinda basic, production 101: don't physically assault the listener.

How It Is ...

 

probably the only song that got improved in the remix

 

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

 

It's very succinct and meaningful in a universal sense.

[vaportrailer]

Most people like the remix better then the original mix, but some of those people enjoy only a select few songs from the original a little better, or vice versa obviously. It's time to see if any of the songs from the Original are voted as better than their Remixed versions...

 

Personally, I prefer the Original Mix, with the exception of Sweet Miracle and How It Is. I recently listened to the remix again, and I really got into the remixed version of How It Is. I still see this song as the weakest one on the album, (so that tells you how great this album is!). I didn't really like the song before but the remix has given me a newfound appreciation for it. The lyrics are great!

 

 

Totally - 'How it Is' really comes alive in the remix.

 

Simply put, I prefer the remix because it doesn't hurt my ears. Kinda basic, production 101: don't physically assault the listener.

How It Is ...

 

probably the only song that got improved in the remix

 

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

 

It's very succinct and meaningful in a universal sense.

 

Yes, and there's a vulnerability there that is easy to relate with. It's certainly the Rush song that I most quote to myself (sorry, Time Stand Still, and I Think I'm Going Bald).

 

 

It's such a cloudy day

Seems we'll never see the sun

I feel the day is all uncertainty

Burning in the moment, trapped by the desperation

Between how it is and how it ought to be

 

Shoulder to the wheel

You can't tell yourself not to care

You can't tell yourself how to feel

That's how it is

 

That's how it is.

[goose]

^^^ :goodone:

[Rush Didact]

Let's define a troublesome term, first:

 

Dynamic range, dynamics, or other variations of the term: In a nutshell, the difference between the soft parts and the loud parts. Let's be clear: there is very little difference between the original mix and the remix in terms of dynamic range. Both are squashed flat as pancakes.

 

Don't believe me? Look here: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=rush&album=vapor+trails

 

So what's the actual difference between them? The key change that Bottrill made (aside from choosing alternate tracks for his mix) is that he narrowed the frequency response of each instrument dramatically. Listen to the kick drum on the remix: it sounds like a click. He scooped out all the lower midrange from it, the frequencies that give it body and character. The same thing was done to almost all the other tracks.

 

That's not necessarily a bad thing; the original mix was very wild and woolly and untamed, with the guitars and bass running rampant over each other. And if you want a mix to be as loud as Bottrill made it, then you HAVE to squeeze the instruments into narrower ranges if you want any separation between them. That's why all modern metal sounds the same way.

 

However, I think it sucks donkey balls. I hate that scooped sound. As others in this thread have noted, it leaves the album sounding hollow and brittle.

 

So if Geddy had walked up to me and handed me a hard drive with the VT multitracks on it, what would I have done?

 

Easy: I'd have left the instruments with their original wide frequency ranges and let them interfere with each other. That's part of what gives the album its character, that thick, dense sound. But I would have backed off on the compression dramatically.

 

Compression reduces the difference between the quiet parts of a signal and the peaks. When you talk about dynamic range, it's a compressor that's responsible for controlling it. A little bit of compression isn't a bad thing, especially when used on individual instrument tracks. It can make the vocals sound more present and up front, it can even out the sound of a bass or thicken up a guitar track.

 

But when compression is applied to the entire mix indiscriminately, it flattens it and robs it of punch. Instead of jumping out at you, little details get lost. Drums in particular lose their power. The whole thing becomes exhausting to listen to.

 

That's where the original mix went wrong, and that's where Bottrill had the chance to improve things. But he decided not to and took an entirely different route instead, and in the process he changed the entire character of the album. (Choosing alternate takes didn't help the matter.)

 

I don't begrudge people their right to enjoy the remix. If you like it, more power to you. However, I'll be sticking with the original mix, as bad as it is. At least it sounds like the album I love.

[chemistry1973]

Let's define a troublesome term, first:

 

Dynamic range, dynamics, or other variations of the term: In a nutshell, the difference between the soft parts and the loud parts. Let's be clear: there is very little difference between the original mix and the remix in terms of dynamic range. Both are squashed flat as pancakes.

 

Don't believe me? Look here: http://dr.loudness-w...um=vapor trails

 

So what's the actual difference between them? The key change that Bottrill made (aside from choosing alternate tracks for his mix) is that he narrowed the frequency response of each instrument dramatically. Listen to the kick drum on the remix: it sounds like a click. He scooped out all the lower midrange from it, the frequencies that give it body and character. The same thing was done to almost all the other tracks.

 

That's not necessarily a bad thing; the original mix was very wild and woolly and untamed, with the guitars and bass running rampant over each other. And if you want a mix to be as loud as Bottrill made it, then you HAVE to squeeze the instruments into narrower ranges if you want any separation between them. That's why all modern metal sounds the same way.

 

However, I think it sucks donkey balls. I hate that scooped sound. As others in this thread have noted, it leaves the album sounding hollow and brittle.

 

So if Geddy had walked up to me and handed me a hard drive with the VT multitracks on it, what would I have done?

 

Easy: I'd have left the instruments with their original wide frequency ranges and let them interfere with each other. That's part of what gives the album its character, that thick, dense sound. But I would have backed off on the compression dramatically.

 

Compression reduces the difference between the quiet parts of a signal and the peaks. When you talk about dynamic range, it's a compressor that's responsible for controlling it. A little bit of compression isn't a bad thing, especially when used on individual instrument tracks. It can make the vocals sound more present and up front, it can even out the sound of a bass or thicken up a guitar track.

 

But when compression is applied to the entire mix indiscriminately, it flattens it and robs it of punch. Instead of jumping out at you, little details get lost. Drums in particular lose their power. The whole thing becomes exhausting to listen to.

 

That's where the original mix went wrong, and that's where Bottrill had the chance to improve things. But he decided not to and took an entirely different route instead, and in the process he changed the entire character of the album. (Choosing alternate takes didn't help the matter.)

 

I don't begrudge people their right to enjoy the remix. If you like it, more power to you. However, I'll be sticking with the original mix, as bad as it is. At least it sounds like the album I love.

 

I think this is an accurate summation of the mix issues that pervade VT.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that the album had some issues at the recording stage too - the drums seem like they were recorded properly - but the guitars sound very very digital to me, and that Lerxst likely recorded his parts directly into the board, via an fx rack. There is no tonality to any of his tracks, aside from his acoustic guitar parts.

 

I think his tracks were either recorded multiple times, or they were copied and stacked in the Pro Tools session. The reason for this was to give the guitars more heft, in place of a properly miked amp/speaker combo.

 

Everything sounds so crowded on the original mix because, ironically, it would sound way too muddy if the guitars were TOO present, and very very empty if they were pulled back even a little bit.

 

I suspect many of the guitar tracks were recorded at home, or in a non-studio session setting. Just a hunch though - I don't have info to back any of this up.

Edited November 27, 2020 by chemistry1973

[Rush Didact]

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with the actual recordings of the instruments. Sure, they weren't professionally done and they probably could have been improved on if they were recorded in an actual studio by a good engineer, but you can still make things sound great even recording direct into the board.

 

Hell, if you want that live, amped sound, just play the DI guitar tracks back through an amp and mic it. Easy.

 

The only unforgiveable sin in tracking is clipping the signal, because there are limits to what you can do to fix that after the fact. The crackling on the original mix had me worried at first that that's what the guys did, but after hearing Andy Van Dette's remaster and Bottrill's remix, neither of which have significant amounts of audible clipping, I'm sure that isn't the case. All the problems with VT were created during mixing, and they can be fixed by a competent engineer.

[chemistry1973]

Dammit now you have me listening to Vapor Trails.

[Rush Didact]

Dammit now you have me listening to Vapor Trails.

 

Haha, you're welcome!

[chemistry1973]

I think a big culprit - on both the original and remix - is Peaceable Kingdom.

 

Listen to the guitar at this point

"Justice against the hangman..."

 

I would think Bottrill would've corrected that - but it sounds - to me- that the tracks he had were recorded pegged and overmodulated.

 

It's even worse at "The hermit against her lover..." part.

[Rush Didact]

Thing is, you can distort a guitar track all to hell and it can still sound fine if it's mixed properly. Listen to the early Led Zeppelin albums, they're masterworks of overdriven and distorted tracks that are somehow massaged into a brilliant-sounding mix.

[chemistry1973]

Thing is, you can distort a guitar track all to hell and it can still sound fine if it's mixed properly. Listen to the early Led Zeppelin albums, they're masterworks of overdriven and distorted tracks that are somehow massaged into a brilliant-sounding mix.

 

Totally - with good mics at the source, with the signal not fully pinned, the shit is going to sound awesome.

 

But if you've got Lerxst in his home studio, and he's recording the tracks digitally, and the input gain is pushed up too high, that unwanted digital distortion might occur.

 

But who knows?! Not me that is for sure. The one thing that I know, is that I've never heard an uglier guitar sound than that high pitched squeal thing in PK.

[condemned2bfree]

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

 

That's a good point. The imagery in Vapor Trails is so very powerful for me, and it it does work as a cohesive whole; concept album. It's interesting many only see a turd. I think it's one of Rush's very best.

[_hi_water._]

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

 

That's a good point. The imagery in Vapor Trails is so very powerful for me, and it it does work as a cohesive whole; concept album. It's interesting many only see a turd. I think it's one of Rush's very best.

Wouldn't say one of their best, but it's definitely one of their best later day albums

[goose]

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

 

That's a good point. The imagery in Vapor Trails is so very powerful for me, and it it does work as a cohesive whole; concept album. It's interesting many only see a turd. I think it's one of Rush's very best.

Me too. It's themes are universal and deeply personal at the same time, which is an accomplishment.

[vaportrailer]

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

 

That's a good point. The imagery in Vapor Trails is so very powerful for me, and it it does work as a cohesive whole; concept album. It's interesting many only see a turd. I think it's one of Rush's very best.

Me too. It's themes are universal and deeply personal at the same time, which is an accomplishment.

 

[vaportrailer]

Not a fan of Ghost Rider or Sweet Miracle

bruh, those are some of my faves on the album

 

Yeah, it seems a few people here like those two tunes. Not my cup of dish, to quote Lawrence "Don't f***ing call me Larry!" Welk.

 

I think my faves on the album would be Secret Touch, Earthshine, Ceiling Unlimited, and How It Is. Excellent stuff. For me, VT has some of NP's best lyrics. Suck it, Red Barchetta! :P

 

"f***in' air cars..." - Ricky, Sunnyvale.

 

I agree - the lyrics on VT are really excellent.

 

:cheers:

 

I know it doesn't get much love around here, but "How It Is" is much more interesting lyrically than 2nd-hand-Coleridge/brains-in-space/etc.

Lyrically it's almost a concept album, with recurring references to weather and grief/loss. It's too bad that NP had to go through hell to write this stuff, as some of the imagery is excellent.

 

That's a good point. The imagery in Vapor Trails is so very powerful for me, and it it does work as a cohesive whole; concept album. It's interesting many only see a turd. I think it's one of Rush's very best.

 

Absolutely. And Neil's rather "stripped-down" approach for his drum parts gave the songs more drive, texture, and more space (ironically enough on their most claustrophobic sounding recording). And he sounds like he's actually having fun playing on a couple of the tracks (Secret Touch, Freeze, Out of the Cradle), which pulls me in as a listener. He's also abandoned the "try to play behind the beat" type stuff he was doing on Test for Echo, which was technically fine, but robbed the material of a lot of its power, despite his clever arrangements. He has more of a Keith Moon approach on Vapor Trails, which is perfect for the material. No need for woodblocks and windchimes!