ctbadger Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 It reminds me of the old saying, "The first rule of Rush Club is you don't talk about Rush". I get that many don't like KA's books or style but obviously given the ties to Rush, Neil's concepts and how we will look back on that I would think many would be interested in seeing what KA does with Clockwork Destiny if it happens. I certainly will. I actually treasure the signed books I have right now. And no one defends and talks about Neil's literary choices as much as me around here being the biggest Bubba's Book Club fan around. It's a shame the bigger picture gets lost by a few KA haters. If you don't like it, don't read it. #endrant It's a shame that you have an issue with those of us who think KJA is a hack and glommed on to Neil's popularity to write a series of substandard books which only serve to diminish the legacy of Peart. #endrant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Rebel Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 It reminds me of the old saying, "The first rule of Rush Club is you don't talk about Rush". I get that many don't like KA's books or style but obviously given the ties to Rush, Neil's concepts and how we will look back on that I would think many would be interested in seeing what KA does with Clockwork Destiny if it happens. I certainly will. I actually treasure the signed books I have right now. And no one defends and talks about Neil's literary choices as much as me around here being the biggest Bubba's Book Club fan around. It's a shame the bigger picture gets lost by a few KA haters. If you don't like it, don't read it. #endrant It's a shame that you have an issue with those of us who think KJA is a hack and glommed on to Neil's popularity to write a series of substandard books which only serve to diminish the legacy of Peart. #endrant Tribalism has a hard pull and leads people to keep throwing out strawman. I don't care if you don't like KJA, honestly. I just don't know why so many feel the need to attack those who do have an interest. And it's a flat out lie to claim KJA "glommed on Neil's popularity" . Neil worked with and approved and even instigated the entire endeavor. It certainly did not hurt Neil's legacy. My point is that if you don't like the "style", many people loved the concepts included in Clockwork Angels and all the books Neil drew from that inspired the work. Many also felt it was a great companion piece to the album, including me. I could even laugh at the way the verses were worked into the novel, but I understand if others can't. Again, I never defended KJA as a paragon of deep literature. But for those claiming some higher ground in literary standards it's odd to me because any attempt to discuss things like Bubba's affection for postmodern literature from Lynn Coady's The Antagonist to Barth's epic works like The Sot Weed Factor will never get a second glance glance in this forum. In fact, you could rarely get anyone to talk about any selection from Bubba's. I mean let's face it, most of the fans have self-admitted they don't even care about the words. Half of them were upset when they found out what it was saying which is why they have the no talking about lyrics rules. Many people here attacked Neil's lyrics and books (Ghost Rider) as well. I get it. But the fact I posted an update as to a possible third book got more people upset than BU2B. You would not think posting about such things (Neil's books) but there you have it. Everyone can just go back to bitching about the mix on Vaper Trails. God forbid someone mention Candide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaportrailer Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Everyone can just go back to bitching about the mix on Vaper Trails. God forbid someone mention Candide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaportrailer Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Again, I never defended KJA as a paragon of deep literature. But for those claiming some higher ground in literary standards it's odd to me because any attempt to discuss things like Bubba's affection for postmodern literature from Lynn Coady's The Antagonist to Barth's epic works like The Sot Weed Factor will never get a second glance glance in this forum. In fact, you could rarely get anyone to talk about any selection from Bubba's. You mean this list?https://www.nypl.org/blog/2012/11/05/neil-peart-reading-list You could always try posting something to "Turn the Page/What Are You Reading" to see if anyone would be interested in discussing any of these books.I've read 20 of the authors listed; some I enjoyed, others I didn't. From the NP books that I've read, I'm surprised that Dos Passos didn't make the list. (But then again KJA had 3 listings, so there obviously wasn't any room. :P ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctbadger Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 It reminds me of the old saying, "The first rule of Rush Club is you don't talk about Rush". I get that many don't like KA's books or style but obviously given the ties to Rush, Neil's concepts and how we will look back on that I would think many would be interested in seeing what KA does with Clockwork Destiny if it happens. I certainly will. I actually treasure the signed books I have right now. And no one defends and talks about Neil's literary choices as much as me around here being the biggest Bubba's Book Club fan around. It's a shame the bigger picture gets lost by a few KA haters. If you don't like it, don't read it. #endrant It's a shame that you have an issue with those of us who think KJA is a hack and glommed on to Neil's popularity to write a series of substandard books which only serve to diminish the legacy of Peart. #endrant Tribalism has a hard pull and leads people to keep throwing out strawman. I don't care if you don't like KJA, honestly. I just don't know why so many feel the need to attack those who do have an interest. And it's a flat out lie to claim KJA "glommed on Neil's popularity" . Neil worked with and approved and even instigated the entire endeavor. It certainly did not hurt Neil's legacy. My point is that if you don't like the "style", many people loved the concepts included in Clockwork Angels and all the books Neil drew from that inspired the work. Many also felt it was a great companion piece to the album, including me. I could even laugh at the way the verses were worked into the novel, but I understand if others can't. Again, I never defended KJA as a paragon of deep literature. But for those claiming some higher ground in literary standards it's odd to me because any attempt to discuss things like Bubba's affection for postmodern literature from Lynn Coady's The Antagonist to Barth's epic works like The Sot Weed Factor will never get a second glance glance in this forum. In fact, you could rarely get anyone to talk about any selection from Bubba's. I mean let's face it, most of the fans have self-admitted they don't even care about the words. Half of them were upset when they found out what it was saying which is why they have the no talking about lyrics rules. Many people here attacked Neil's lyrics and books (Ghost Rider) as well. I get it. But the fact I posted an update as to a possible third book got more people upset than BU2B. You would not think posting about such things (Neil's books) but there you have it. Everyone can just go back to bitching about the mix on Vaper Trails. God forbid someone mention Candide. Neil's lyrics played a foundational role in creating the adult I am today. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been such a huge fan of the band if they were only singing about sex and drugs. His lyrics have spoken to me throughout my life, and as weird as it may seem have given me strength and helped me navigate my life. I still think KJA is a hack though :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytserush Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I've only read one book by KJA: I enjoyed it. That would be one more than I've read. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfwayToGone Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Having read all of the Clockwork stuff, I actually liked the second one more than the first. I agree that the lyrics included all over the place in the first book was a bad idea. That said, I have a gold edition with the framed manuscript page, and when I glance up at it on the wall, I don’t say to myself “F that KJA! He ruined Neil’s work!” I consider it a rare artifact touched by the guy who made me want to be a drummer. The Syme artwork is cool. KJA didn't ruin anything, he just didn’t write something that will be the next Herman Melville. Gee, that’s a shame. Get over it. It’s based on recent rock music, not Hamlet. That was Bob and Doug’s movie, Strange Brew. Haters gonna hate though, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 It reminds me of the old saying, "The first rule of Rush Club is you don't talk about Rush". I get that many don't like KA's books or style but obviously given the ties to Rush, Neil's concepts and how we will look back on that I would think many would be interested in seeing what KA does with Clockwork Destiny if it happens. I certainly will. I actually treasure the signed books I have right now. And no one defends and talks about Neil's literary choices as much as me around here being the biggest Bubba's Book Club fan around. It's a shame the bigger picture gets lost by a few KA haters. If you don't like it, don't read it. #endrant It's a shame that you have an issue with those of us who think KJA is a hack and glommed on to Neil's popularity to write a series of substandard books which only serve to diminish the legacy of Peart. #endrant Tribalism has a hard pull and leads people to keep throwing out strawman. I don't care if you don't like KJA, honestly. I just don't know why so many feel the need to attack those who do have an interest. And it's a flat out lie to claim KJA "glommed on Neil's popularity" . Neil worked with and approved and even instigated the entire endeavor. It certainly did not hurt Neil's legacy. My point is that if you don't like the "style", many people loved the concepts included in Clockwork Angels and all the books Neil drew from that inspired the work. Many also felt it was a great companion piece to the album, including me. I could even laugh at the way the verses were worked into the novel, but I understand if others can't. Again, I never defended KJA as a paragon of deep literature. But for those claiming some higher ground in literary standards it's odd to me because any attempt to discuss things like Bubba's affection for postmodern literature from Lynn Coady's The Antagonist to Barth's epic works like The Sot Weed Factor will never get a second glance glance in this forum. In fact, you could rarely get anyone to talk about any selection from Bubba's. I mean let's face it, most of the fans have self-admitted they don't even care about the words. Half of them were upset when they found out what it was saying which is why they have the no talking about lyrics rules. Many people here attacked Neil's lyrics and books (Ghost Rider) as well. I get it. But the fact I posted an update as to a possible third book got more people upset than BU2B. You would not think posting about such things (Neil's books) but there you have it. Everyone can just go back to bitching about the mix on Vaper Trails. God forbid someone mention Candide. Oh the irony.....you mention straw men arguments then immediately throw out a bunch...do you ever read back your offerings before hitting the post button? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctbadger Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Having read all of the Clockwork stuff, I actually liked the second one more than the first. I agree that the lyrics included all over the place in the first book was a bad idea. That said, I have a gold edition with the framed manuscript page, and when I glance up at it on the wall, I don’t say to myself “F that KJA! He ruined Neil’s work!” I consider it a rare artifact touched by the guy who made me want to be a drummer. The Syme artwork is cool. KJA didn't ruin anything, he just didn’t write something that will be the next Herman Melville. Gee, that’s a shame. Get over it. It’s based on recent rock music, not Hamlet. That was Bob and Doug’s movie, Strange Brew. Haters gonna hate though, I guess. How about instead of "haters gonna hate" we could say "to each his own"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony R Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 I read Clockwork Angels and this sprung to mind: “this is not a book to be tossed aside lightly; it should be hurled with great force!” 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I read Clockwork Angels and this sprung to mind: “this is not a book to be tossed aside lightly; it should be hurled with great force!”All Tony wanted was a heavy metal album. Not books, not stories from the bouncer who rides side-saddle, not yodelling vocals. It's not about hugging trees it's about metal guitars crushing your eardrums and everyone ending up with a permanent hissing in their ears as well as a Tony R Permanent Wave hairstyle. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctbadger Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I read Clockwork Angels and this sprung to mind: “this is not a book to be tossed aside lightly; it should be hurled with great force!”All Tony wanted was a heavy metal album. Not books, not stories from the bouncer who rides side-saddle, not yodelling vocals. It's not about hugging trees it's about metal guitars crushing your eardrums and everyone ending up with a permanent hissing in their ears as well as a Tony R Permanent Wave hairstyle. That is all. Books are for tourists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Rebel Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) Again, I never defended KJA as a paragon of deep literature. But for those claiming some higher ground in literary standards it's odd to me because any attempt to discuss things like Bubba's affection for postmodern literature from Lynn Coady's The Antagonist to Barth's epic works like The Sot Weed Factor will never get a second glance glance in this forum. In fact, you could rarely get anyone to talk about any selection from Bubba's. You mean this list?https://www.nypl.org...rt-reading-list You could always try posting something to "Turn the Page/What Are You Reading" to see if anyone would be interested in discussing any of these books.I've read 20 of the authors listed; some I enjoyed, others I didn't. From the NP books that I've read, I'm surprised that Dos Passos didn't make the list. (But then again KJA had 3 listings, so there obviously wasn't any room. :P ) Yep, that list! Seen this a while back. Really cool. Made me think of this. From Episode 15 This beautiful truth is attributed to Philo of Alexandria, among others, but I favor Philo for the quote. Philo was a Jewish philosopher who lived in Egypt under the Romans at the time of Christ, which seems the right time and place to have offered such generous advice. That such deep wisdom is still rarely followed, after 2,000 years, is a shame, and you have to wonder, “Why didn’t we ever learn anything from these ancient sages?” The easy answer is that humans are weak-willed and self-centered—yet it remains strange to me that we often resist clear “goodness” (generosity to the unfortunate, say) so coldly, but devote ourselves unstintingly, selflessly, to following meaningless rituals and customs. Observe a holy holiday without fail, yes—but commit a random act of kindness? Not so likely. Philo would agree; we’ve still got a lot of work to do on the concept of being kind, and at appreciating the hard battles others must fight every day. Still, Philo’s spirit remains in the best of us, and since his time, certain novelists have exemplified that generosity in their art. They present their characters with similar compassion, and invite their readers to experience the “hard battles” of others for themselves, in a way that no other artform can achieve. Paintings, films, photography, music—all can arouse emotions and present moments of truth, but reading engages one’s inner eye, one’s imagination, like no other medium, and is the only way that other lives are truly embraced, taken into one’s own life. Authors such as Charles Dickens, George Eliot, Thomas Hardy, John Dos Passos, John Steinbeck, Nadine Gordimer, and Saul Bellow—just to name a prominent few—have given us this generous spirit in their novels. Their characters are felt, and felt for, but not judged. Edited February 19, 2020 by Running Rebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Rebel Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 Having read all of the Clockwork stuff, I actually liked the second one more than the first. I agree that the lyrics included all over the place in the first book was a bad idea. That said, I have a gold edition with the framed manuscript page, and when I glance up at it on the wall, I don’t say to myself “F that KJA! He ruined Neil’s work!” I consider it a rare artifact touched by the guy who made me want to be a drummer. The Syme artwork is cool. KJA didn't ruin anything, he just didn’t write something that will be the next Herman Melville. Gee, that’s a shame. Get over it. It’s based on recent rock music, not Hamlet. That was Bob and Doug’s movie, Strange Brew. Haters gonna hate though, I guess. Agreed. Really cool on the Gold Edition. Jelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Rebel Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) When I originally read Clockwork Angels and saw the blatent clunky way lyrics were being worked in I was disappointed preferring that, like the songs, the meanings and words were more like Easter Eggs and little tidbits and clues or mini-homages to the songs and ideas than the way it was done. Now I know other who don't know much of the lyrics and it was fine and to them. But my first thought was that it went over on the hooptedoodle. I know Keven said in his talk at Rushcon that Neil was worried about it as well, but eventually signed off. I think of Neil's view of Hooptedoodle and have used the word for years now in my regular lexicon. It comes from Bubba's review of Telegraph Avenue by Michael Chabon about an entire chapter that was a single run on glorious f***ing sentence. “Hooptedoodle” comes from the comic Prologue to Steinbeck’s Sweet Thursday, the sequel to Cannery Row. A couple of the shared characters — bums — are discussing the first book: One night Mack lay back on his bed in the Palace Flophouse and he said, “I ain’t never been satisfied with that book Cannery Row. I would have went about it different.” Mack goes on to describe to his friend, Whitey No. 2, what he likes in a book, in terms of chapter titles and lots of “talk,” and some description, but not too much. “I like to know what color a thing is, how it smells and maybe how it looks, and maybe how a guy feels about it — but not too much of that.” “You sure are a critic,” said Whitey No. 2. “Mack, I never give you credit before. Is that all?” “No,” said Mack. “Sometimes I want a book to break loose with a bunch of hooptedoodle. The guy’s writing it, give him a chance to do a little hooptedoodle. Spin up some pretty words maybe, or sing a little song with language. That’s nice.” So I get that many thought KA's use of lyrics was a little too much Hooptedoodle. I can't argue that. But like Mack, I can live with it. Edited February 19, 2020 by Running Rebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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