Rick N. Backer Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I thought it might make sense to break a discussion between LABT and goose into its own thread. The debate started over whether Mike Trout should be the AL MVP, when the Angels finished 72-90. Trout finished with the following stats: 2019 WAR 8.3, AB 470, H 137, HR, 45, BA .291, R 110, RBI 104, SB 11, OBP .438, SLG .645, OPS 1.083, OPS+ 185 https://www.baseball...1&t=b&year=2019 Trout's WAR (wins against replacement, or how the team would have fared with someone else playing the position) was the league's best. Still, the Angels have the same playoff schedule that I do. Do you give him the MVP? Do you give it to Alex Bregman of the Astros, whose WAR was right behind Trout's, but his team was stacked this year? Is there some other stat that should be the central consideration? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I thought it might make sense to break a discussion between LABT and goose into its own thread. The debate started over whether Mike Trout should be the AL MVP, when the Angels finished 72-90. Trout finished with the following stats: 2019 WAR 8.3, AB 470, H 137, HR, 45, BA .291, R 110, RBI 104, SB 11, OBP .438, SLG .645, OPS 1.083, OPS+ 185 https://www.baseball...1&t=b&year=2019 Trout's WAR (wins against replacement, or how the team would have fared with someone else playing the position) was the league's best. Still, the Angels have the same playoff schedule that I do. Do you give him the MVP? Do you give it to Alex Bregman of the Astros, whose WAR was right behind Trout's, but his team was stacked this year? Is there some other stat that should be the central consideration?WAR, xwOBA, and maybe WPA for hitters, FIP for pitchers. Trout is the most VALUABLE player, as he was the most productive, objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Carmina Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 With all due respect to Goose's argument (MVP shouldn't go to a player whose team was rubbish), I think about all those years that somebody like Walter Payton or Barry Sanders (to mix my sports analogies) was clearly the greatest, but they were surrounded by a bunch of tube steaks, and I think it's not entirely fair* to blame a great player for not having better teammates. Trout was great despite his team. Bregman's team would likely have been playoff-caliber without him (subtract his WAR from their total and they're still running away with the division). If I were voting, I'd vote for Trout. (*No, my mother never told me life isn't fair. Why do you ask?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 You have individual pitching awards. You have individual fielding awards. You have individual batting awards. IMO, an MVP should be a leader in productivity as a part of a successful team season. You had a great year in a lising effort? Congrats, but your production, ultimately, was of limited value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 With all due respect to Goose's argument (MVP shouldn't go to a player whose team was rubbish), I think about all those years that somebody like Walter Payton... was clearly the greatestPayton was awarded the league MVP in 1977, when the Bears finished 9-5, their first winning season since 1967. :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Carmina Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Payton was awarded the league MVP in 1977, when the Bears finished 9-5, their first winning season since 1967. :) Yeah, I remember having the football card that said MVP on it! Da Bears lost to the Cowboys that year, btw . . . . So would Sweetness not have deserved it if his team was 5-9? What about 7-7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Payton was awarded the league MVP in 1977, when the Bears finished 9-5, their first winning season since 1967. :) Yeah, I remember having the football card that said MVP on it! Da Bears lost to the Cowboys that year, btw . . . . So would Sweetness not have deserved it if his team was 5-9? What about 7-7?Did not contribute to a successful team. Dallas won the Super Bowl that year. :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1977's stat leader in Approximate Value? Rolland Lawrence, Atlanta Falcons. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1977/leaders.htm I guess he was robbed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Carmina Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Dallas won the Super Bowl that year. :) Yes, yes they did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Carmina Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1977's stat leader in Approximate Value? Rolland Lawrence, Atlanta Falcons. https://www.pro-foot...977/leaders.htm I guess he was robbed? Who? Ah, fame, that fickle whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1977's stat leader in Approximate Value? Rolland Lawrence, Atlanta Falcons. https://www.pro-foot...977/leaders.htm I guess he was robbed? Who? Ah, fame, that fickle whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVPWrong. It was Jim Rice. The year of the famed "Boston Massacre", the Sox had a four hame lead going into the final series vs NY. They got swept. Boston missed out on the playoffs after later losing a one-game tie-breaker with the Yankees. A great year in baseball, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrinx Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I think there is a difference between MVP and best player. I think Trout would win best player. I guess the question is without Trout would the Angels have finished 20 + games worse? If so maybe he is the MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVPWrong. It was Jim Rice. The year of the famed "Boston Massacre", the Sox had a four hame lead going into the final series vs NY. They got swept.Boston missed out on the playoffs after later losing a one-game tie-breaker with the Yankees. A great year in baseball, btw. Go f*ck yourself, goose. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.It's a team award, and he made the biggest difference for his team in a must win game. If that's not value, I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick N. Backer Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.It's a team award, and he made the biggest difference for his team in a must win game. If that's not value, I don't know what is. Yes, but don't they pick the winner before the post season starts? Dent wasn't the reason they got to that one game playoff. I would say that's closer to the right test than how someone performed in one game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.It's a team award, and he made the biggest difference for his team in a must win game. If that's not value, I don't know what is. Yes, but don't they pick the winner before the post season starts? Dent wasn't the reason they got to that one game playoff. I would say that's closer to the right test than how someone performed in one game.The game counts as part of the regular season. And in any case, it's not just how one player plays, it's about how the team does. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVPWrong. It was Jim Rice. The year of the famed "Boston Massacre", the Sox had a four hame lead going into the final series vs NY. They got swept.Boston missed out on the playoffs after later losing a one-game tie-breaker with the Yankees. A great year in baseball, btw. Go f*ck yourself, goose. :) my 3rd Rick lol of the evening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Bucky Dent, 1978 AL MVP One game. Otherwise, a decent fielder and banjo hitter.It's a team award, and he made the biggest difference for his team in a must win game. If that's not value, I don't know what is. Yes, but don't they pick the winner before the post season starts? Dent wasn't the reason they got to that one game playoff. I would say that's closer to the right test than how someone performed in one game.The game counts as part of the regular season. And in any case, it's not just how one player plays, it's about how the team does. ;)Dent was awarded the world series MVP for those efforts. I wonder which Dodger he beat out for the award. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithrandir Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Trout is the MVP. Team performance shouldn't be a big factor in ascertaining who the MVP is. Trout. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) Trout is the MVP. Team performance shouldn't be a big factor in ascertaining who the MVP is. Trout.Care to support that argument? Edited October 19, 2019 by goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 If the Yankees come back to win the ALCS, Aaron Hicks has to be in the top three in the AL MVP race... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithrandir Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) Trout is the MVP. Team performance shouldn't be a big factor in ascertaining who the MVP is. Trout.Care to support that argument?https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2019-batting-leaders.shtml Stats dont lie. Edited October 20, 2019 by Mithrandir 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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