Question about the US flag

[Lucas]

This thread has veered far off course.

 

Maybe I can try and navigate it back?

 

How important is the flag generally in the US? My assumption is that most everybody will lose their mind over it, if someone either tries to burn it, stomp it or just speak badly about. But is that really the case? I know it's the picture a lot of people in Europe likely has, but here we're in the progress of equating flags with fascism, so there's that.

 

My point in posting the letter to Brandon Marshall was to show the extremely unhealthy and hypocritical views some have involving the USA and what some feel represent the USA - whether that be a flag or a song ..

 

A lot of these things fall closer to the category of sickness than patriotism

Edited July 4, 2017 by Lucas

[OldRUSHfan]

This thread has veered far off course.

 

Maybe I can try and navigate it back?

 

How important is the flag generally in the US? My assumption is that most everybody will lose their mind over it, if someone either tries to burn it, stomp it or just speak badly about. But is that really the case? I know it's the picture a lot of people in Europe likely has, but here we're in the progress of equating flags with fascism, so there's that.

 

My point in posting the letter to Brandon Marshall was to show the extremely unhealthy and hypocritical views some have involving the USA and what some feel represent the USA - whether that be a flag or a song ..

 

A lot of these things fall closer to the category of sickness than patriotism

 

I wonder why those types of people keep living here if they hate it so much? I think maybe they should be sent to North Korea and see how they like it there....eh?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Banana%20peeled.gif

[Lucas]

This thread has veered far off course.

 

Maybe I can try and navigate it back?

 

How important is the flag generally in the US? My assumption is that most everybody will lose their mind over it, if someone either tries to burn it, stomp it or just speak badly about. But is that really the case? I know it's the picture a lot of people in Europe likely has, but here we're in the progress of equating flags with fascism, so there's that.

 

My point in posting the letter to Brandon Marshall was to show the extremely unhealthy and hypocritical views some have involving the USA and what some feel represent the USA - whether that be a flag or a song ..

 

A lot of these things fall closer to the category of sickness than patriotism

 

I wonder why those types of people keep living here if they hate it so much? I think maybe they should be sent to North Korea and see how they like it there....eh?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Banana%20peeled.gif

 

ORFie, I'm talking about the author of the letter .. NOT Brandon Marshall

[OldRUSHfan]

This thread has veered far off course.

 

Maybe I can try and navigate it back?

 

How important is the flag generally in the US? My assumption is that most everybody will lose their mind over it, if someone either tries to burn it, stomp it or just speak badly about. But is that really the case? I know it's the picture a lot of people in Europe likely has, but here we're in the progress of equating flags with fascism, so there's that.

 

My point in posting the letter to Brandon Marshall was to show the extremely unhealthy and hypocritical views some have involving the USA and what some feel represent the USA - whether that be a flag or a song ..

 

A lot of these things fall closer to the category of sickness than patriotism

 

I wonder why those types of people keep living here if they hate it so much? I think maybe they should be sent to North Korea and see how they like it there....eh?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Banana%20peeled.gif

 

ORFie, I'm talking about the author of the letter .. NOT Brandon Marshall

 

I know that, Lucas. Obviously, the guy using his first amendment rights does NOT appreciate that he can write BS like he did to Mr. Marshall and not be thrown into the clink. Then again, judging by the letter, I'm guessing he doesn't have a lot of grey matter above his shoulder area....and maybe he should be taken to a country where he can't do that.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/banana%20splatTTTT.gif

Edited July 4, 2017 by OldRUSHfan

[JohnnyBlaze]

Here in the USA, we are experiencing (suffering from) the formation of secular superstitions when it comes to patriotism. The two main superstitions are:

 

1) "Disrepecting" or "desecrating" the U.S. flag.

2) Sports fans being pressured to stand at attention and take off their hats when the Star Spangled Banner is played.

 

While not everyone takes these things so seriously, there are quite a few citizens who do. Desecrating the U.S. flag has been a longstanding point of contention. Title 18 of the U.S. Code actually calls for imprisonment of those who willfully desecrate a U.S. flag, but that penalty (up to a year in prison) is not enforced. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that burning a flag to express one's political beliefs is protected speech under the 1st Amendment.

 

Peer pressure to "respect" the flag and show your patriotism in public is one of our nation's flaws. One of the first steps in creating a fascist state is to legally require the People to be patriotic in public. There are many U.S. citizens today who would support such requirements.

 

 

I love America, but I am not blindly patriotic.

 

I hear you.

 

Related...

I've met and known a lot of expats abroad that DO think most of (if not ALL) Americans ARE blindly patriotic though. A Welsh co-worker of mine I used to work with once condescendingly commented, "Why do you guys always carry around the American flag and wear t-shirts that say 'Love it or leave it' with your flag on it?" Our Canadian co-worker agreed with her.

 

I've never known anyone to "carry around" an American flag. And the only time I've seen someone wear a t-shirt that the Welsh chick was talking about was on some pro-wrestling tv show.

 

The irony is that the Welsh and Canadian co-workers of mine had flags of their respective nations on their daily used backpacks and regularly worn clothing. Nobody ever commented on that (and nobody should) but IF I did those same things with the American flag, I surely would've received criticism. Hell, I received criticism even when I've NEVER done it.

 

So you're saying that the generic image of the american we've been spoonfed abroad isn't true?!

 

Hollywood has influenced how the world sees the USA more than most can probably imagine.

 

 

Here's a Time article on national flags. You might be interested as it mentions Denmark:

 

http://time.com/3918052/flag-history-america-world/

 

 

[JARG]

I'm an Eagle Scout. Even thought as far as I can remember, if the flag fell on the ground no one was Killed because of it. General honor of the flag was learned and such, but we didn't kill people for not learning it. But then, if you felt that way, that the flag didn't deserve honor, Boy Scouts was probably not your cup of tea. http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Characters/boy%20scouttny.gif

:banana:

 

Well done, ORF. Not a single instance of all caps.

[JohnnyBlaze]

I'm an Eagle Scout. Even thought as far as I can remember, if the flag fell on the ground no one was Killed because of it. General honor of the flag was learned and such, but we didn't kill people for not learning it. But then, if you felt that way, that the flag didn't deserve honor, Boy Scouts was probably not your cup of tea. http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Characters/boy%20scouttny.gif

:banana:

 

Well done, ORF. Not a single instance of all caps.

 

[Principled Man]

This thread has veered far off course.

 

Maybe I can try and navigate it back?

 

How important is the flag generally in the US? My assumption is that most everybody will lose their mind over it, if someone either tries to burn it, stomp it or just speak badly about. But is that really the case? I know it's the picture a lot of people in Europe likely has, but here we're in the progress of equating flags with fascism, so there's that.

 

Most everybody? Not even close. A small minority of people would resort to violence over someone desecrating a flag. Lots of people would voice their disgust or opposition, and the offending party would get lots of hate mail, but it always blows over, and people move on to the next "outrage".

[OldRUSHfan]

I'm an Eagle Scout. Even thought as far as I can remember, if the flag fell on the ground no one was Killed because of it. General honor of the flag was learned and such, but we didn't kill people for not learning it. But then, if you felt that way, that the flag didn't deserve honor, Boy Scouts was probably not your cup of tea. http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Characters/boy%20scouttny.gif

:banana:

 

Well done, ORF. Not a single instance of all caps.

KISS MY BUTTOCKS REPEATEDLY!!! http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Characters/bartmoon.gif :LOLsign:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/angrybanana.gif

[EagleMoon]

I remember when I was a kid in school that we were taught pride in our flag. We knew the history of Betsy Ross making the original flag and how the stars represented the states etc. we were also taught that the flag should not touch the ground and I also remember hearing that it should not be used again but most people didn't follow that rule.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by EagleMoon

[Ancient Ways]

I remember when I was a kid in school that we were taught pride in our flag. We knew the history of Betsy Ross making the original flag and how the stars represented the states etc. we were also taught that the flag should not touch the ground and I also remember hearing that it should not be used again but most people didn't follow that rule.

That's more of a superstition than a rule. There is a link to the flag code posted earlier that si the official guidelines on flag etiquette

[EagleMoon]

I remember when I was a kid in school that we were taught pride in our flag. We knew the history of Betsy Ross making the original flag and how the stars represented the states etc. we were also taught that the flag should not touch the ground and I also remember hearing that it should not be used again but most people didn't follow that rule.

That's more of a superstition than a rule. There is a link to the flag code posted earlier that si the official guidelines on flag etiquette

 

Oh yeah I know that. That's just what we were told as kids.

[GeddyRulz]

Uber-nationalistic people freak me out, as uber-religious people do... and the mark for what I consider excessive has changed as I've aged, where now I feel even a little is "too much." That's just me.

 

When the Kaepernick and Brandon Marshall story hit last fall, I was glad to hear high-ranking military officers say they supported the players' right to do whatever they wanted: stand, sit, kneel, lie down, whatever. That's America (or should be)! Any veterans or other "patriots" who say our military fought and died for the flag have it wrong. They never fought for a flag; they fought for the FREEDOMS the flag represents, including the freedom to do whatever the hell you want when the flag is raised and anthem played. (I stand respectfully and remove my cap, but don't put hand on heart. That's me.) Freedom is more important than the mere SYMBOLS of freedom, like a flag or anthem.

 

A country which made it MANDATORY to stand for its flag or anthem isn't a free country, and wouldn't be a country any of us (the uber-nationalistic people, too) would want.

 

I'm a Denver fan. Some Denver fans said they were going to boycott the Broncos last year because of Marshall taking a knee. I said great, any season tickets you want to get rid of? I'll take them off your hands.

[Crimsonmistymemory]

I was always confused by the "If the flag hits the ground it must be set ablaze" I have also posted on FB when people are so righteous when the post their hatred of pics or Memes dipicting the stars & bars being burt asking "How do you know that that flag had not just hit the ground?" To which I never really get a clear answer but that statement really should be a conversation starter. I do not like flag burning my self but I respect someone else's right to do so. What is the the line I am looking for? Oh yeah :musicnote" "I'm not giving in to security under pressure" "musicnote" I myself have never burned a flag. I have flown one upside down when I was younger as a statement of how I felt. As I got older I do my best to honor the flag not so much for what it represents, but more so for those who had the balls to pay the ultimate price defending it. I fly the flag (as I am now) from my house today and most every patriotic holiday and sometimes just for the hell of it. I also made a flag holder for my truck which I sport old glory from when I travel about town. I will say mynflags have hit the ground unintentionally and I never burned them because of that reason. I have retired them when they have become weathered and or tattered. I believe the most disrespectful thing one can do is fly a flag that should' be been retired.

Happy 4th everyone :D

Edit;

This topic stirred my curiosity and I found this link,

https://www.americandisposal.com/blog/how-to-retire-an-american-flag

Edited July 5, 2017 by Crimsonmistymemory

[Ancient Ways]

This thread has veered far off course.

 

Maybe I can try and navigate it back?

 

How important is the flag generally in the US? My assumption is that most everybody will lose their mind over it, if someone either tries to burn it, stomp it or just speak badly about. But is that really the case? I know it's the picture a lot of people in Europe likely has, but here we're in the progress of equating flags with fascism, so there's that.

That's a tough one to answer. I would say the vast majority respect it and other nations flags. A similar minority on both ends of the spectrum either want to burn it to make a point or kill those who burn it to make a point.

[Lucas]

Uber-nationalistic people freak me out, as uber-religious people do... and the mark for what I consider excessive has changed as I've aged, where now I feel even a little is "too much." That's just me.

 

When the Kaepernick and Brandon Marshall story hit last fall, I was glad to hear high-ranking military officers say they supported the players' right to do whatever they wanted: stand, sit, kneel, lie down, whatever. That's America (or should be)! Any veterans or other "patriots" who say our military fought and died for the flag have it wrong. They never fought for a flag; they fought for the FREEDOMS the flag represents, including the freedom to do whatever the hell you want when the flag is raised and anthem played. (I stand respectfully and remove my cap, but don't put hand on heart. That's me.) Freedom is more important than the mere SYMBOLS of freedom, like a flag or anthem.

 

A country which made it MANDATORY to stand for its flag or anthem isn't a free country, and wouldn't be a country any of us (the uber-nationalistic people, too) would want.

 

I'm a Denver fan. Some Denver fans said they were going to boycott the Broncos last year because of Marshall taking a knee. I said great, any season tickets you want to get rid of? I'll take them off your hands.

 

Great post GR

 

 

For what it's worth, here is a statement from Marshall:

 

 

On Thursday, Sept. 8, I took a knee for the national anthem to take a stand against social injustice. My intent was not to offend anyone but rather to simply raise awareness and create some dialogue toward effecting positive change in our communities.

 

In the last week, I’ve had a lot of productive conversations with people I respect, including Chief White of the Denver Police Department. I really appreciate all of them taking the time to listen to me and offer some insight and feedback on ways we can all make a difference.

 

I’ve also had a lot of time to personally reflect on important issues such as race and gender equality, the treatment of our military veterans, our relationship with law enforcement, educational opportunities for our youth, and many more. I recognize and applaud the significant progress that has been made in these areas made possible only through the hard work of so many dedicated leaders.

 

But, it’s clear there is so much more work to be done by all of us. Together, we all need to Stand Up for change.

 

This starts with me.

 

My work with the Rose Andom Center to stop domestic violence is fulfilling and close to my heart. But I need to do more.

 

I plan to be involved with several other organizations that benefit the Denver community and others through the services, awareness and funds they provide for these critical social issues. And I will donate 300 dollars for every tackle I make this season to those programs. You can track these contributions on social media through #TackleChange.

 

I’m truly grateful for the support I’ve received from so many people, especially my teammates. I look forward to preparing with them and focusing on an important game Sunday against the Colts.

 

 

 

[JohnnyBlaze]

The replies in this thread show that the USA (the TRF sample anyway) isn't as fanatical about our flag as much of the world imagines

[Principled Man]

The replies in this thread show that the USA (the TRF sample anyway) isn't as fanatical about our flag as much of the world imagines

 

The extreme ends of the spectrum always get the most publicity. Whether it's political, religious, economic, or any other facet of our nation, the large majority is right in the middle, and not making any noise.

[JohnnyBlaze]

The replies in this thread show that the USA (the TRF sample anyway) isn't as fanatical about our flag as much of the world imagines

 

The extreme ends of the spectrum always get the most publicity. Whether it's political, religious, economic, or any other facet of our nation, the large majority is right in the middle, and not making any noise.

 

This is true. Unfortunately, millions if not billions believe these extreme ends to be the norm.

[GeddyRulz]

The replies in this thread show that the USA (the TRF sample anyway) isn't as fanatical about our flag as much of the world imagines

 

The extreme ends of the spectrum always get the most publicity. Whether it's political, religious, economic, or any other facet of our nation, the large majority is right in the middle, and not making any noise.

 

True. I think the extremes get the publicity and attention just because they're loudest. We don't get much attention "right in the middle, and not making any noise."

 

There were some pretty vocal Broncos fans when the Marshall thing was happening - threats of boycotting the team and the NFL, demands that he be released or FORCED to stand, etc., and you'll still see a few posts like that whenever he's mentioned on the Broncos FB page - but yeah, those people are probably a minority.

[Tick]

Here in the USA, we are experiencing (suffering from) the formation of secular superstitions when it comes to patriotism. The two main superstitions are:

 

1) "Disrepecting" or "desecrating" the U.S. flag.

2) Sports fans being pressured to stand at attention and take off their hats when the Star Spangled Banner is played.

 

While not everyone takes these things so seriously, there are quite a few citizens who do. Desecrating the U.S. flag has been a longstanding point of contention. Title 18 of the U.S. Code actually calls for imprisonment of those who willfully desecrate a U.S. flag, but that penalty (up to a year in prison) is not enforced. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that burning a flag to express one's political beliefs is protected speech under the 1st Amendment.

 

Peer pressure to "respect" the flag and show your patriotism in public is one of our nation's flaws. One of the first steps in creating a fascist state is to legally require the People to be patriotic in public. There are many U.S. citizens today who would support such requirements.

 

Appreciate the reply, which was quite informative....

Why do you think this mindset is particular to the USA?....are there other countries who feel the same way about their particular emblems?

I think there is a feeling of superiority in the U.S. you likely won't find anywhere else. The U.S, the protectors of the world, the melting pot of people who came here from elsewhere to have a life that couldn't have in many places.

Am I patriotic? Yes, and I do think people should show respect at sporting events by removing caps and remaining silent during the anthem and be respectful as a courtesy to others. It's not asking much.

 

Sadly though the U.S. is now the divided states of America. People draw lines in the sand and won't cross them no matter what. It's rare you find someone who thinks and judges things independently. Instead they will follow one ideology to a fault with no room flexibility on any issues. It's actually quite scary that the side someone supports will be defended whether they do wrong or not. There is always a way to justify the wrong doing of the party you support because the other side is worse.

The media is one sided and compartmentalized so you only get one the side. The side they want to present, and the other side is always wrong. MSNBC would NEVER in a million years support anything Trump could ever do no matter what much as Fox news would NEVER give president Obama credit for anything he did in 8 years in office.

 

Sorry, I went off track a bit....

 

There are no absolutes but in the general the right loses there minds over this issue while the left is more apt to say, hey is not the end of the world its only a flag.

I know plenty of people who think and judge independently. I'm one.

That may be true, but its hard to find a non bias news outlet that isn't slanted in the opinions they present.

[Principled Man]

The replies in this thread show that the USA (the TRF sample anyway) isn't as fanatical about our flag as much of the world imagines

 

The extreme ends of the spectrum always get the most publicity. Whether it's political, religious, economic, or any other facet of our nation, the large majority is right in the middle, and not making any noise.

 

True. I think the extremes get the publicity and attention just because they're loudest. We don't get much attention "right in the middle, and not making any noise."

 

There were some pretty vocal Broncos fans when the Marshall thing was happening - threats of boycotting the team and the NFL, demands that he be released or FORCED to stand, etc., and you'll still see a few posts like that whenever he's mentioned on the Broncos FB page - but yeah, those people are probably a minority.

 

Our news services - local and national - love to focus on the extreme, the shocking, and the controversial. The most heinous crimes also get the most publicity, because they, too, are the extreme. They bring in more viewers, higher ratings, and higher profits.

 

We can thank the media for encouraging more nutjobs to commit heinous crimes. Just like flag-burners, today's psycho-killer craves attention, and now he can get it on a national or even global scale. :|

Edited July 5, 2017 by Principled Man

[OldRUSHfan]

The replies in this thread show that the USA (the TRF sample anyway) isn't as fanatical about our flag as much of the world imagines

 

The extreme ends of the spectrum always get the most publicity. Whether it's political, religious, economic, or any other facet of our nation, the large majority is right in the middle, and not making any noise.

 

True. I think the extremes get the publicity and attention just because they're loudest. We don't get much attention "right in the middle, and not making any noise."

 

There were some pretty vocal Broncos fans when the Marshall thing was happening - threats of boycotting the team and the NFL, demands that he be released or FORCED to stand, etc., and you'll still see a few posts like that whenever he's mentioned on the Broncos FB page - but yeah, those people are probably a minority.

 

Sounds to me as if Mr. Marshall is a person with a good head on his shoulders. Any fan who's down on him deserves up to 4 inflated footballs shoved FAR UP THEIR ASSHOLES.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/TV%20Movies-%20Johnny%20Depp%20Banana.jpg