RUSH - Religion, Humanism, And When They Became Bland

[Slim]

Interesting idea. I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating points already made, but -

 

Neil clearly takes himself seriously as a writer, and I think he just grew out of those fantasy stories (like ByTor), then the allegorical material (like The Trees and Hemispheres). I like most of his stuff and those early lyrics do have a certain charm and magic. But I think his later work is better, more interesting.

[onthebeam]

More mature. I agree Slim.

[JohnnyBlaze]

Interesting idea. I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating points already made, but -

 

Neil clearly takes himself seriously as a writer, and I think he just grew out of those fantasy stories (like ByTor), then the allegorical material (like The Trees and Hemispheres). I like most of his stuff and those early lyrics do have a certain charm and magic. But I think his later work is better, more interesting.

Depends on what you mean by "later work". IMHO, the lyrics from Moving Pictures to Hold Your Fire beat out everything that preceded or followed.

[onthebeam]

I agree with you also, JohnnyBlaze, but every album has a handful gems, such as - " No one gets to their heaven without a fight." Whether you like a song or not , an observation such as that is amazing and powerful, and I don't take that snippet of words as only applying to religion.

[presto123]

Interesting idea. I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating points already made, but -

 

Neil clearly takes himself seriously as a writer, and I think he just grew out of those fantasy stories (like ByTor), then the allegorical material (like The Trees and Hemispheres). I like most of his stuff and those early lyrics do have a certain charm and magic. But I think his later work is better, more interesting.

Depends on what you mean by "later work". IMHO, the lyrics from Moving Pictures to Hold Your Fire beat out everything that preceded or followed.

 

.....yet some of my fav lyrics come from Presto...... War Paint is just brilliant. Most people don't delve deep enough to get all the symbolism and metaphors in that song.

[catherine]

In my opinion storytelling lyrics aren't a "less mature" form of conveying ideas than straight philosophical ones; but they are received by the listener on different levels. The worldview and experiences of the listener will play into the reception and digestion, as well as their natural inclinations towards one form or the other. I find the story type deeper in symbolism but that may be because I am drawn to story and literature. Philosophy is fine but I prefer it in small doses and lean more towards the other.

[tony990]

True, but then on the same album you have a song like Far Cry talking about how we were meant to share the world, but it turned out to be a world full of greed.

[Digital Dad]

My favorite albums lyrically

 

Power Windows

Snakes and Arrows

 

 

[JohnnyBlaze]

Interesting idea. I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating points already made, but -

 

Neil clearly takes himself seriously as a writer, and I think he just grew out of those fantasy stories (like ByTor), then the allegorical material (like The Trees and Hemispheres). I like most of his stuff and those early lyrics do have a certain charm and magic. But I think his later work is better, more interesting.

Depends on what you mean by "later work". IMHO, the lyrics from Moving Pictures to Hold Your Fire beat out everything that preceded or followed.

 

.....yet some of my fav lyrics come from Presto.......

That's true too. I think The Pass and Presto are two of Peart's greats.

[JohnnyBlaze]

My favorite albums lyrically

 

Power Windows

Snakes and Arrows

I agree, Power Windows is way up there.

Easy top 3 for me.

[Lucas]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated .. The quote from Neil in reference to Jacob's Ladder tells it all:

 

"Jacob's Ladder" is a lovely phrase, those two words itself. And that's in fact what we started with, we looked at the song as being a 'cinemative' kind of exercise and before any lyrics were written we talked about the image of "Jacob's Ladder", of a cloudy sky coming on and then all of a sudden these beams of light, which, everybody sees and I have always found very inspiring sort of thing. We had that experience in common. So we created the music just out of that vision and that image and wrote the whole song around that ..

 

Rush didn't simply change lyrically, they changed the intent .. they became more grounded, far less adventurous and the priorities changed

 

 

.

 

 

.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Lucas

[JohnnyBlaze]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

[Lucas]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I completely agree with this

 

There was a connection that was lost . . .

 

Can you imagine putting music to one of Neil's blogs ?

[presto123]

My favorite albums lyrically

 

Power Windows

Snakes and Arrows

 

Too bad the music didn't measure up. SnA remains one of my bottom 3 Rush records. It has it's moments.....but alas.

[JohnnyBlaze]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I completely agree with this

 

There was a connection that was lost . . .

 

Can you imagine putting music to one of Neil's blogs ?

Not sure what kind of melodies would suit descriptions of tumbleweeds, fat Americans, and sedimentary rock.

[Tony R]

Interesting idea. I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating points already made, but -

 

Neil clearly takes himself seriously as a writer, and I think he just grew out of those fantasy stories (like ByTor), then the allegorical material (like The Trees and Hemispheres). I like most of his stuff and those early lyrics do have a certain charm and magic. But I think his later work is better, more interesting.

 

I believe that Lee is the problem. His insistence on rewrites because the lyrics are first person or personal to Peart and his inability to deliver those lyrics passionately make them seem awkward and, to a degree, malformed. On the odd occasion we get a glimpse of a lyric in progress (in his books or blog) they seem more concise and musical.

 

[EagleMoon]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

[JohnnyBlaze]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

Well, think about this:

If it weren't for Carrie, there's a good chance that Peart wouldn't have gone back to work.

[EagleMoon]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

Well, think about this:

If it weren't for Carrie, there's a good chance that Peart wouldn't have gone back to work.

 

It's possible, but we'll never know.

[Jaminbenb]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

Well, think about this:

If it weren't for Carrie, there's a good chance that Peart wouldn't have gone back to work.

 

It's possible, but we'll never know.

 

Yeah, that's a tough call...but I'm just glad he got over his issues, and came back...heck we got 12-13 years that wouldn't have existed! Just like we talked about when this was coming to an end last year....I'm just happy we got the extension, and will leave it at that! This could have been over and done with in 1996!

 

Yeah, his lyric writing went in a totally different direction, and reading Ghost Rider was sort of hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................

[JohnnyBlaze]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

Well, think about this:

If it weren't for Carrie, there's a good chance that Peart wouldn't have gone back to work.

 

It's possible, but we'll never know.

 

Yeah, that's a tough call...but I'm just glad he got over his issues, and came back...heck we got 12-13 years that wouldn't have existed! Just like we talked about when this was coming to an end last year....I'm just happy we got the extension, and will leave it at that! This could have been over and done with in 1996!

 

Yeah, his lyric writing went in a totally different direction, and reading Ghost Rider was sort of hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................

Yup, it IS hard to know.

However, Neil himself HAS said that it was Carrie that motivated him to get back into it.

[EagleMoon]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

Well, think about this:

If it weren't for Carrie, there's a good chance that Peart wouldn't have gone back to work.

 

It's possible, but we'll never know.

 

Yeah, that's a tough call...but I'm just glad he got over his issues, and came back...heck we got 12-13 years that wouldn't have existed! Just like we talked about when this was coming to an end last year....I'm just happy we got the extension, and will leave it at that! This could have been over and done with in 1996!

 

Yeah, his lyric writing went in a totally different direction, and reading Ghost Rider was sort of hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................

Yup, it IS hard to know.

However, Neil himself HAS said that it was Carrie that motivated him to get back into it.

 

To me, it seemed like he lost something creatively after his tragedies. His heart just never seemed to be in it like it was before that happened. Certainly understandable, of course, but some of the fire was gone.

[JohnnyBlaze]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

Well, think about this:

If it weren't for Carrie, there's a good chance that Peart wouldn't have gone back to work.

 

It's possible, but we'll never know.

 

Yeah, that's a tough call...but I'm just glad he got over his issues, and came back...heck we got 12-13 years that wouldn't have existed! Just like we talked about when this was coming to an end last year....I'm just happy we got the extension, and will leave it at that! This could have been over and done with in 1996!

 

Yeah, his lyric writing went in a totally different direction, and reading Ghost Rider was sort of hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................

Yup, it IS hard to know.

However, Neil himself HAS said that it was Carrie that motivated him to get back into it.

 

To me, it seemed like he lost something creatively after his tragedies. His heart just never seemed to be in it like it was before that happened. Certainly understandable, of course, but some of the fire was gone.

I don't know about that. I mean, I didn't feel that T4E was all that fiery. And that was before the terrible tragedies in his life.

 

I tend to think that his heart (and his head) really was in VT and Snakes...I just happened to not like Snakes very much.

[EagleMoon]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

Well, think about this:

If it weren't for Carrie, there's a good chance that Peart wouldn't have gone back to work.

 

It's possible, but we'll never know.

 

Yeah, that's a tough call...but I'm just glad he got over his issues, and came back...heck we got 12-13 years that wouldn't have existed! Just like we talked about when this was coming to an end last year....I'm just happy we got the extension, and will leave it at that! This could have been over and done with in 1996!

 

Yeah, his lyric writing went in a totally different direction, and reading Ghost Rider was sort of hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................

Yup, it IS hard to know.

However, Neil himself HAS said that it was Carrie that motivated him to get back into it.

 

To me, it seemed like he lost something creatively after his tragedies. His heart just never seemed to be in it like it was before that happened. Certainly understandable, of course, but some of the fire was gone.

I don't know about that. I mean, I didn't feel that T4E was all that fiery. And that was before the terrible tragedies in his life.

 

I tend to think that his heart (and his head) really was in VT and Snakes...I just happened to not like Snakes very much.

 

I like TFE so we kind of disagree with that. It just seems like after that he got even more preachy and negative.

[JohnnyBlaze]

The point is that the lyrics and the music cannot, and should not, be separated.

That sounds good for interviews.

And I agree with that thought.

Plus, I'm sure Peart believed that.

Still, the fact is, much of their later material was Peart writing completely separated from Lee & Lifeson. After he wrote he'd present his lyrics and they influenced the music at varying degrees. IMHO, sometimes the lyrics just seemed like they were tacked on or crammed into the musical sections itself <-------- [some 21st century material anyway].

 

I think the real downfall came when Neil married Carrie and moved to LA. The distance between all of them made it even harder to really work on musical ideas together.

Well, think about this:

If it weren't for Carrie, there's a good chance that Peart wouldn't have gone back to work.

 

It's possible, but we'll never know.

 

Yeah, that's a tough call...but I'm just glad he got over his issues, and came back...heck we got 12-13 years that wouldn't have existed! Just like we talked about when this was coming to an end last year....I'm just happy we got the extension, and will leave it at that! This could have been over and done with in 1996!

 

Yeah, his lyric writing went in a totally different direction, and reading Ghost Rider was sort of hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................

Yup, it IS hard to know.

However, Neil himself HAS said that it was Carrie that motivated him to get back into it.

 

To me, it seemed like he lost something creatively after his tragedies. His heart just never seemed to be in it like it was before that happened. Certainly understandable, of course, but some of the fire was gone.

I don't know about that. I mean, I didn't feel that T4E was all that fiery. And that was before the terrible tragedies in his life.

 

I tend to think that his heart (and his head) really was in VT and Snakes...I just happened to not like Snakes very much.

 

I like TFE so we kind of disagree with that. It just seems like after that he got even more preachy and negative.

Well, becoming "more preachy and negative" doesn't necessarily mean his fire weakened. Some could argue that his fire intensified because of his circumstances AND the world at the time.