2015 MLB Season Thread

[goose]

As a Dodger fan,

 

The slide by Utley in to second base was Bullsh**. No reason to do that. The play was ruled safe any way. I hate seeing any player do that.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-V6O8iEA_D8

 

What's really BS is the fact MLB still allows that kind of slide and, frankly, lies through their teeth when they suggest it is unfortunate, but legal.

 

Um, no. It's not. There are multiple interference rules that make this type of play illegal. Seriously, that is not a joke. When a runner does not slide into the bag.... interference. When a runner leaves the baseline to interrupt a play.... interference. When a runner intentionally makes contact with a fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play (the double play aspect is specifically mentioned in the rule book!).... interference.

 

But MLB allows this kind of thing to continue under the guise of "tradition" and "good, hard baseball". MLB somehow thinks their fans appreciate this.

 

I don't have enough BS cards to lay down on MLB for that one. They need to enforce their own rules and put an end to this play. A hard slide into the bag? Cool. *That* is good, hard baseball. But off the bag, in any way. Leg up, in any way. Interference, in any way. Then the runner... by rule... is out. If MLB simply enforces its own rule, this pretty much goes away.

 

I know, I know. Some fans out there are going to pull the "in my day" :codger: routine. Others are going to call it the sissyfication of the game. Both of those arguments are equally BS .

 

Here's the clincher. MLB is the only league that still allows this in the U.S. At all other levels.... LL, AAU, club, high school, and college.... Utley doesn't even try that because he knows he is out if he does.

 

Good point,

 

I have seen it all growing when it comes this stuff. Close calls and plays like this. The Dodgers lost game one and were losing up until this play. The runner on third was going to score either way. Plus, Utley never stood on second. He ran off. Why he wasn't out for that?

Because he was wrongly called out. Why would you step on the base after being called out?

 

Good point,

 

The clip was short and I didn't see the ruling. But l forgot to take that in to consideration. But I guess my point is,there was no need for it. Late slide and the guy's leg is broken.

Like in most sports, if you aren't in proper position, you have a good chance of getting hurt.

 

Proper position,

 

Really? What should the guy do when the runner slides late and not even close to the base?

Be facing the runner and jump? Should I post a compilation showing proper technique?

 

The play is practiced over and over, with a lead toss and footwork that ends in a jump. The toss was off the mark, which screwed it all up. Think of a hard run into first. A bad throw to the home plate side sets up a similar collision. The runner will be intentionally inside the baseline, running full barrel to break up the play.

[troutman]

As a Dodger fan,

 

The slide by Utley in to second base was Bullsh**. No reason to do that. The play was ruled safe any way. I hate seeing any player do that.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-V6O8iEA_D8

 

What's really BS is the fact MLB still allows that kind of slide and, frankly, lies through their teeth when they suggest it is unfortunate, but legal.

 

Um, no. It's not. There are multiple interference rules that make this type of play illegal. Seriously, that is not a joke. When a runner does not slide into the bag.... interference. When a runner leaves the baseline to interrupt a play.... interference. When a runner intentionally makes contact with a fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play (the double play aspect is specifically mentioned in the rule book!).... interference.

 

But MLB allows this kind of thing to continue under the guise of "tradition" and "good, hard baseball". MLB somehow thinks their fans appreciate this.

 

I don't have enough BS cards to lay down on MLB for that one. They need to enforce their own rules and put an end to this play. A hard slide into the bag? Cool. *That* is good, hard baseball. But off the bag, in any way. Leg up, in any way. Interference, in any way. Then the runner... by rule... is out. If MLB simply enforces its own rule, this pretty much goes away.

 

I know, I know. Some fans out there are going to pull the "in my day" :codger: routine. Others are going to call it the sissyfication of the game. Both of those arguments are equally BS .

 

Here's the clincher. MLB is the only league that still allows this in the U.S. At all other levels.... LL, AAU, club, high school, and college.... Utley doesn't even try that because he knows he is out if he does.

 

Good point,

 

I have seen it all growing when it comes this stuff. Close calls and plays like this. The Dodgers lost game one and were losing up until this play. The runner on third was going to score either way. Plus, Utley never stood on second. He ran off. Why he wasn't out for that?

Because he was wrongly called out. Why would you step on the base after being called out?

 

Good point,

 

The clip was short and I didn't see the ruling. But l forgot to take that in to consideration. But I guess my point is,there was no need for it. Late slide and the guy's leg is broken.

Like in most sports, if you aren't in proper position, you have a good chance of getting hurt.

 

Proper position,

 

Really? What should the guy do when the runner slides late and not even close to the base?

Be facing the runner and jump? Should I post a compilation showing proper technique?

 

The play is practiced over and over, with a lead toss and footwork that ends in a jump. The toss was off the mark, which screwed it all up. Think of a hard run into first. A bad throw to the home plate side sets up a similar collision. The runner will be intentionally inside the baseline, running full barrel to break up the play.

 

Sure,

 

But it wasn't a "bang bang" play. If you look at Utley's last few steps. He went after the guy with no intension of reaching second. I have watched it many times now. Late slide and going after the guy.

Edited October 11, 2015 by troutman

[goose]

As a Dodger fan,

 

The slide by Utley in to second base was Bullsh**. No reason to do that. The play was ruled safe any way. I hate seeing any player do that.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-V6O8iEA_D8

 

What's really BS is the fact MLB still allows that kind of slide and, frankly, lies through their teeth when they suggest it is unfortunate, but legal.

 

Um, no. It's not. There are multiple interference rules that make this type of play illegal. Seriously, that is not a joke. When a runner does not slide into the bag.... interference. When a runner leaves the baseline to interrupt a play.... interference. When a runner intentionally makes contact with a fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play (the double play aspect is specifically mentioned in the rule book!).... interference.

 

But MLB allows this kind of thing to continue under the guise of "tradition" and "good, hard baseball". MLB somehow thinks their fans appreciate this.

 

I don't have enough BS cards to lay down on MLB for that one. They need to enforce their own rules and put an end to this play. A hard slide into the bag? Cool. *That* is good, hard baseball. But off the bag, in any way. Leg up, in any way. Interference, in any way. Then the runner... by rule... is out. If MLB simply enforces its own rule, this pretty much goes away.

 

I know, I know. Some fans out there are going to pull the "in my day" :codger: routine. Others are going to call it the sissyfication of the game. Both of those arguments are equally BS .

 

Here's the clincher. MLB is the only league that still allows this in the U.S. At all other levels.... LL, AAU, club, high school, and college.... Utley doesn't even try that because he knows he is out if he does.

 

Good point,

 

I have seen it all growing when it comes this stuff. Close calls and plays like this. The Dodgers lost game one and were losing up until this play. The runner on third was going to score either way. Plus, Utley never stood on second. He ran off. Why he wasn't out for that?

Because he was wrongly called out. Why would you step on the base after being called out?

 

Good point,

 

The clip was short and I didn't see the ruling. But l forgot to take that in to consideration. But I guess my point is,there was no need for it. Late slide and the guy's leg is broken.

Like in most sports, if you aren't in proper position, you have a good chance of getting hurt.

 

Proper position,

 

Really? What should the guy do when the runner slides late and not even close to the base?

Be facing the runner and jump? Should I post a compilation showing proper technique?

 

The play is practiced over and over, with a lead toss and footwork that ends in a jump. The toss was off the mark, which screwed it all up. Think of a hard run into first. A bad throw to the home plate side sets up a similar collision. The runner will be intentionally inside the baseline, running full barrel to break up the play.

 

Sure,

 

But it wasn't a "bang bang" play. If you look at Utley's last few steps. He went after the guy with no intension of reaching second. I have watched it many times now. Late slide and going after the guy.

I agreed with that already. But it's expected, which is why you practice the way I describe. Watch the video, But don't watch the runner. Watch Tejada's feet.

 

And yes, listening to the response of "outrage" this morning from sports reporters I will pay the "wussification" card. The slide was designed to disrupt the play, which is nothing new. Poor defensive execution set the whole thing up.

[troutman]

As a Dodger fan,

 

The slide by Utley in to second base was Bullsh**. No reason to do that. The play was ruled safe any way. I hate seeing any player do that.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-V6O8iEA_D8

 

What's really BS is the fact MLB still allows that kind of slide and, frankly, lies through their teeth when they suggest it is unfortunate, but legal.

 

Um, no. It's not. There are multiple interference rules that make this type of play illegal. Seriously, that is not a joke. When a runner does not slide into the bag.... interference. When a runner leaves the baseline to interrupt a play.... interference. When a runner intentionally makes contact with a fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play (the double play aspect is specifically mentioned in the rule book!).... interference.

 

But MLB allows this kind of thing to continue under the guise of "tradition" and "good, hard baseball". MLB somehow thinks their fans appreciate this.

 

I don't have enough BS cards to lay down on MLB for that one. They need to enforce their own rules and put an end to this play. A hard slide into the bag? Cool. *That* is good, hard baseball. But off the bag, in any way. Leg up, in any way. Interference, in any way. Then the runner... by rule... is out. If MLB simply enforces its own rule, this pretty much goes away.

 

I know, I know. Some fans out there are going to pull the "in my day" :codger: routine. Others are going to call it the sissyfication of the game. Both of those arguments are equally BS .

 

Here's the clincher. MLB is the only league that still allows this in the U.S. At all other levels.... LL, AAU, club, high school, and college.... Utley doesn't even try that because he knows he is out if he does.

 

Good point,

 

I have seen it all growing when it comes this stuff. Close calls and plays like this. The Dodgers lost game one and were losing up until this play. The runner on third was going to score either way. Plus, Utley never stood on second. He ran off. Why he wasn't out for that?

Because he was wrongly called out. Why would you step on the base after being called out?

 

Good point,

 

The clip was short and I didn't see the ruling. But l forgot to take that in to consideration. But I guess my point is,there was no need for it. Late slide and the guy's leg is broken.

Like in most sports, if you aren't in proper position, you have a good chance of getting hurt.

 

Proper position,

 

Really? What should the guy do when the runner slides late and not even close to the base?

Be facing the runner and jump? Should I post a compilation showing proper technique?

 

The play is practiced over and over, with a lead toss and footwork that ends in a jump. The toss was off the mark, which screwed it all up. Think of a hard run into first. A bad throw to the home plate side sets up a similar collision. The runner will be intentionally inside the baseline, running full barrel to break up the play.

 

Sure,

 

But it wasn't a "bang bang" play. If you look at Utley's last few steps. He went after the guy with no intension of reaching second. I have watched it many times now. Late slide and going after the guy.

I agreed with that already. But it's expected, which is why you practice the way I describe. Watch the video, But don't watch the runner. Watch Tejada's feet.

 

And yes, listening to the response of "outrage" this morning from sports reporters I will pay the "wussification" card. The slide was designed to disrupt the play, which is nothing new. Poor defensive execution set the whole thing up.

 

Sorry,

 

Not buying it. A late slide like that and in your last few steps you go out of your way to take the guy out. I don't care what position the guy was in. That's what I don't like at all. And the runner would have scored.

[goose]

As a Dodger fan,

 

The slide by Utley in to second base was Bullsh**. No reason to do that. The play was ruled safe any way. I hate seeing any player do that.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-V6O8iEA_D8

 

What's really BS is the fact MLB still allows that kind of slide and, frankly, lies through their teeth when they suggest it is unfortunate, but legal.

 

Um, no. It's not. There are multiple interference rules that make this type of play illegal. Seriously, that is not a joke. When a runner does not slide into the bag.... interference. When a runner leaves the baseline to interrupt a play.... interference. When a runner intentionally makes contact with a fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play (the double play aspect is specifically mentioned in the rule book!).... interference.

 

But MLB allows this kind of thing to continue under the guise of "tradition" and "good, hard baseball". MLB somehow thinks their fans appreciate this.

 

I don't have enough BS cards to lay down on MLB for that one. They need to enforce their own rules and put an end to this play. A hard slide into the bag? Cool. *That* is good, hard baseball. But off the bag, in any way. Leg up, in any way. Interference, in any way. Then the runner... by rule... is out. If MLB simply enforces its own rule, this pretty much goes away.

 

I know, I know. Some fans out there are going to pull the "in my day" :codger: routine. Others are going to call it the sissyfication of the game. Both of those arguments are equally BS .

 

Here's the clincher. MLB is the only league that still allows this in the U.S. At all other levels.... LL, AAU, club, high school, and college.... Utley doesn't even try that because he knows he is out if he does.

 

Good point,

 

I have seen it all growing when it comes this stuff. Close calls and plays like this. The Dodgers lost game one and were losing up until this play. The runner on third was going to score either way. Plus, Utley never stood on second. He ran off. Why he wasn't out for that?

Because he was wrongly called out. Why would you step on the base after being called out?

 

Good point,

 

The clip was short and I didn't see the ruling. But l forgot to take that in to consideration. But I guess my point is,there was no need for it. Late slide and the guy's leg is broken.

Like in most sports, if you aren't in proper position, you have a good chance of getting hurt.

 

Proper position,

 

Really? What should the guy do when the runner slides late and not even close to the base?

Be facing the runner and jump? Should I post a compilation showing proper technique?

 

The play is practiced over and over, with a lead toss and footwork that ends in a jump. The toss was off the mark, which screwed it all up. Think of a hard run into first. A bad throw to the home plate side sets up a similar collision. The runner will be intentionally inside the baseline, running full barrel to break up the play.

 

Sure,

 

But it wasn't a "bang bang" play. If you look at Utley's last few steps. He went after the guy with no intension of reaching second. I have watched it many times now. Late slide and going after the guy.

I agreed with that already. But it's expected, which is why you practice the way I describe. Watch the video, But don't watch the runner. Watch Tejada's feet.

 

And yes, listening to the response of "outrage" this morning from sports reporters I will pay the "wussification" card. The slide was designed to disrupt the play, which is nothing new. Poor defensive execution set the whole thing up.

 

Sorry,

 

Not buying it. A late slide like that and in your last few steps you go out of your way to take the guy out. I don't care what position the guy was in. That's what I don't like at all. And the runner would have scored.

A dirty play for sure, but like I said, not uncommon. Donaldson (below) did something similar 3 days ago, knocking himself out of the game, not the fielder who, incidentally, executed exactly the footwork I am describing. Utley's slide was dirty, but the injury that resulted rests on defensive execution.

 

http://www.al.com/sp...s_al_playo.html

 

The commentary: "It becomes a no-play double play, and you know you've got to get up in the air."

Edited October 11, 2015 by goose

[troutman]

As a Dodger fan,

 

The slide by Utley in to second base was Bullsh**. No reason to do that. The play was ruled safe any way. I hate seeing any player do that.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-V6O8iEA_D8

 

What's really BS is the fact MLB still allows that kind of slide and, frankly, lies through their teeth when they suggest it is unfortunate, but legal.

 

Um, no. It's not. There are multiple interference rules that make this type of play illegal. Seriously, that is not a joke. When a runner does not slide into the bag.... interference. When a runner leaves the baseline to interrupt a play.... interference. When a runner intentionally makes contact with a fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play (the double play aspect is specifically mentioned in the rule book!).... interference.

 

But MLB allows this kind of thing to continue under the guise of "tradition" and "good, hard baseball". MLB somehow thinks their fans appreciate this.

 

I don't have enough BS cards to lay down on MLB for that one. They need to enforce their own rules and put an end to this play. A hard slide into the bag? Cool. *That* is good, hard baseball. But off the bag, in any way. Leg up, in any way. Interference, in any way. Then the runner... by rule... is out. If MLB simply enforces its own rule, this pretty much goes away.

 

I know, I know. Some fans out there are going to pull the "in my day" :codger: routine. Others are going to call it the sissyfication of the game. Both of those arguments are equally BS .

 

Here's the clincher. MLB is the only league that still allows this in the U.S. At all other levels.... LL, AAU, club, high school, and college.... Utley doesn't even try that because he knows he is out if he does.

 

Good point,

 

I have seen it all growing when it comes this stuff. Close calls and plays like this. The Dodgers lost game one and were losing up until this play. The runner on third was going to score either way. Plus, Utley never stood on second. He ran off. Why he wasn't out for that?

Because he was wrongly called out. Why would you step on the base after being called out?

 

Good point,

 

The clip was short and I didn't see the ruling. But l forgot to take that in to consideration. But I guess my point is,there was no need for it. Late slide and the guy's leg is broken.

Like in most sports, if you aren't in proper position, you have a good chance of getting hurt.

 

Proper position,

 

Really? What should the guy do when the runner slides late and not even close to the base?

Be facing the runner and jump? Should I post a compilation showing proper technique?

 

The play is practiced over and over, with a lead toss and footwork that ends in a jump. The toss was off the mark, which screwed it all up. Think of a hard run into first. A bad throw to the home plate side sets up a similar collision. The runner will be intentionally inside the baseline, running full barrel to break up the play.

 

Sure,

 

But it wasn't a "bang bang" play. If you look at Utley's last few steps. He went after the guy with no intension of reaching second. I have watched it many times now. Late slide and going after the guy.

I agreed with that already. But it's expected, which is why you practice the way I describe. Watch the video, But don't watch the runner. Watch Tejada's feet.

 

And yes, listening to the response of "outrage" this morning from sports reporters I will pay the "wussification" card. The slide was designed to disrupt the play, which is nothing new. Poor defensive execution set the whole thing up.

 

Sorry,

 

Not buying it. A late slide like that and in your last few steps you go out of your way to take the guy out. I don't care what position the guy was in. That's what I don't like at all. And the runner would have scored.

A dirty play for sure, but like I said, not uncommon. Donaldson (below) did something similar 3 days ago, knocking himself out of the game, not the fielder who, incidentally, executed exactly the footwork I am describing. Utley's slide was dirty, but the injury that resulted rests on defensive execution.

 

http://www.al.com/sp...s_al_playo.html

 

The commentary: "It becomes a no-play double play, and you know you've got to get up in the air."

 

Yeah,

 

I know sh** happens. But I just hate the late slide and his last few steps to create the contact. He went out of his way to cause it. I don't care what team it is. BTW, Utley was the one who should have ended up with a broken jaw from the guy's knee.

[goose]

As a Dodger fan,

 

The slide by Utley in to second base was Bullsh**. No reason to do that. The play was ruled safe any way. I hate seeing any player do that.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=-V6O8iEA_D8

 

What's really BS is the fact MLB still allows that kind of slide and, frankly, lies through their teeth when they suggest it is unfortunate, but legal.

 

Um, no. It's not. There are multiple interference rules that make this type of play illegal. Seriously, that is not a joke. When a runner does not slide into the bag.... interference. When a runner leaves the baseline to interrupt a play.... interference. When a runner intentionally makes contact with a fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play (the double play aspect is specifically mentioned in the rule book!).... interference.

 

But MLB allows this kind of thing to continue under the guise of "tradition" and "good, hard baseball". MLB somehow thinks their fans appreciate this.

 

I don't have enough BS cards to lay down on MLB for that one. They need to enforce their own rules and put an end to this play. A hard slide into the bag? Cool. *That* is good, hard baseball. But off the bag, in any way. Leg up, in any way. Interference, in any way. Then the runner... by rule... is out. If MLB simply enforces its own rule, this pretty much goes away.

 

I know, I know. Some fans out there are going to pull the "in my day" :codger: routine. Others are going to call it the sissyfication of the game. Both of those arguments are equally BS .

 

Here's the clincher. MLB is the only league that still allows this in the U.S. At all other levels.... LL, AAU, club, high school, and college.... Utley doesn't even try that because he knows he is out if he does.

 

Good point,

 

I have seen it all growing when it comes this stuff. Close calls and plays like this. The Dodgers lost game one and were losing up until this play. The runner on third was going to score either way. Plus, Utley never stood on second. He ran off. Why he wasn't out for that?

Because he was wrongly called out. Why would you step on the base after being called out?

 

Good point,

 

The clip was short and I didn't see the ruling. But l forgot to take that in to consideration. But I guess my point is,there was no need for it. Late slide and the guy's leg is broken.

Like in most sports, if you aren't in proper position, you have a good chance of getting hurt.

 

Proper position,

 

Really? What should the guy do when the runner slides late and not even close to the base?

Be facing the runner and jump? Should I post a compilation showing proper technique?

 

The play is practiced over and over, with a lead toss and footwork that ends in a jump. The toss was off the mark, which screwed it all up. Think of a hard run into first. A bad throw to the home plate side sets up a similar collision. The runner will be intentionally inside the baseline, running full barrel to break up the play.

 

Sure,

 

But it wasn't a "bang bang" play. If you look at Utley's last few steps. He went after the guy with no intension of reaching second. I have watched it many times now. Late slide and going after the guy.

I agreed with that already. But it's expected, which is why you practice the way I describe. Watch the video, But don't watch the runner. Watch Tejada's feet.

 

And yes, listening to the response of "outrage" this morning from sports reporters I will pay the "wussification" card. The slide was designed to disrupt the play, which is nothing new. Poor defensive execution set the whole thing up.

 

Sorry,

 

Not buying it. A late slide like that and in your last few steps you go out of your way to take the guy out. I don't care what position the guy was in. That's what I don't like at all. And the runner would have scored.

A dirty play for sure, but like I said, not uncommon. Donaldson (below) did something similar 3 days ago, knocking himself out of the game, not the fielder who, incidentally, executed exactly the footwork I am describing. Utley's slide was dirty, but the injury that resulted rests on defensive execution.

 

http://www.al.com/sp...s_al_playo.html

 

The commentary: "It becomes a no-play double play, and you know you've got to get up in the air."

 

Yeah,

 

I know sh** happens. But I just hate the late slide and his last few steps to create the contact. He went out of his way to cause it. I don't care what team it is. BTW, Utley was the one who should have ended up with a broken jaw from the guy's knee.

[WorkingAllTheTime]

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

[goose]

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

My comments are specific to the one incident, and the outrage coming down on Utley. In light of what is routine to the major league game, what he did was far from outrageous. The result is unfortunate, but that has less to do with Utley and more to do with tejada, or rather, the toss that set Tejada up to get drilled. Now, in the big picture, if MLB had said they were emphasizing the rule at the outset of the season, then Utley would be out of line and deserving of the League and the Media. But that isn't the case. Moving forward, MLB would be wise to do just that, as they did with catchers. This is likely to happen, now.

 

:cheers:

 

Go Blue.

[troutman]

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

My comments are specific to the one incident, and the outrage coming down on Utley. In light of what is routine to the major league game, what he did was far from outrageous. The result is unfortunate, but that has less to do with Utley and more to do with tejada, or rather, the toss that set Tejada up to get drilled. Now, in the big picture, if MLB had said they were emphasizing the rule at the outset of the season, then Utley would be out of line and deserving of the League and the Media. But that isn't the case. Moving forward, MLB would be wise to do just that, as they did with catchers. This is likely to happen, now.

 

:cheers:

 

Go Blue.

 

You have a point,

 

But Utley knew better. Sure, the league could make stricter rules. But that doesn't make it right. As a Dodgers fan I do not like it at all. The ball is not hit at the same speed all the time. He had no time to come across the base and throw it to first. Utley slid late and assumed he was out. I guess it is what it is.

[lerxt1990]

I

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

 

If you slide wide of the base and get it with your arm you're good, and Utley could have conceivably done that. Cmon, the argument that hes out of the baseline is weak. It was a hard slide. It was not notable enough or different enough to cause outrage or a suspension.

[lerxt1990]

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

My comments are specific to the one incident, and the outrage coming down on Utley. In light of what is routine to the major league game, what he did was far from outrageous. The result is unfortunate, but that has less to do with Utley and more to do with tejada, or rather, the toss that set Tejada up to get drilled. Now, in the big picture, if MLB had said they were emphasizing the rule at the outset of the season, then Utley would be out of line and deserving of the League and the Media. But that isn't the case. Moving forward, MLB would be wise to do just that, as they did with catchers. This is likely to happen, now.

 

:cheers:

 

Go Blue.

 

Thats exactly right.

 

F the Mets first, then F the Dodgers after they knock out the Mets.

 

Muck the Fets!

[lerxt1990]

http://media.philly.com/images/20151011-Utley-Tejads.jpg

 

Make this routinely against the rules?

 

No.

[Disembodied Spirit]

Monday Madness:

 

Royals @ Astros: 1pm ET

Blue Jays @ Rangers: 4pm ET

Cardinals @ Cubs: 6pm ET

Dodgers @ Mets: 8:30pm ET

 

Yup, no need to go to work Monday

[troutman]

I

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

 

If you slide wide of the base and get it with your arm you're good, and Utley could have conceivably done that. Cmon, the argument that hes out of the baseline is weak. It was a hard slide. It was not notable enough or different enough to cause outrage or a suspension.

 

Come on,

 

He slid late and went out of his way at the last moment. Hell, he might as well have just kept running at that point.

[lerxt1990]

I

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

 

If you slide wide of the base and get it with your arm you're good, and Utley could have conceivably done that. Cmon, the argument that hes out of the baseline is weak. It was a hard slide. It was not notable enough or different enough to cause outrage or a suspension.

 

Come on,

 

He slid late and went out of his way at the last moment. Hell, he might as well have just kept running at that point.

 

But he didnt. He slid late, and was in reach of the bag. The suspension is bullsh-t. And two games? And yet throwing a baseball 95mph at a player, intentionally, doesn't get you a suspension. BS. If you're not ready for that, then you don't take the ball that way on second.

[goose]

I

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

 

If you slide wide of the base and get it with your arm you're good, and Utley could have conceivably done that. Cmon, the argument that hes out of the baseline is weak. It was a hard slide. It was not notable enough or different enough to cause outrage or a suspension.

 

Come on,

 

He slid late and went out of his way at the last moment. Hell, he might as well have just kept running at that point.

 

But he didnt. He slid late, and was in reach of the bag. The suspension is bullsh-t. And two games? And yet throwing a baseball 95mph at a player, intentionally, doesn't get you a suspension. BS. If you're not ready for that, then you don't take the ball that way on second.

Joe Torre's comments, which hardly seem to back up the suspension:

 

"It was really based on the fact that he slid very late and he hit Tejada and the ground at the same time," Torre said. "When you're targeting the player...He certainly didn't want to hurt him. He was just trying to break up a double play. I thought this was a bit much."

Certainly, Utley's appeal will be grounded in the fact players have avoided suspensions for similar - or even more malicious - slides. Torre sounds intent on establishing a new precedent, even as MLB and the union hammer out rule modifications to protect middle infielders.

"I can't worry about what's happened in the past," he said of Utley's appeal. "I just based it on what I say and that we're trying to have rules that are going to keep these players on the field. It's unfortunate; Chase Utley is a great player.

 

5]

http://www.usatoday....ppeal/73798166/

Edited October 12, 2015 by goose

[WorkingAllTheTime]

I

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

 

If you slide wide of the base and get it with your arm you're good, and Utley could have conceivably done that. Cmon, the argument that hes out of the baseline is weak. It was a hard slide. It was not notable enough or different enough to cause outrage or a suspension.

 

Come on,

 

He slid late and went out of his way at the last moment. Hell, he might as well have just kept running at that point.

 

But he didnt. He slid late, and was in reach of the bag. The suspension is bullsh-t. And two games? And yet throwing a baseball 95mph at a player, intentionally, doesn't get you a suspension. BS. If you're not ready for that, then you don't take the ball that way on second.

 

I agree a suspension is beyond stupid. The issue is MLB not enforcing its rule for all these years. MLB created this injury, not Utley. They need to gather the group this off season and say, yes, we are going to enforce this from here on out.

 

By the way, in reach of the bag or not is irrelevant to the rules. Torre referred to 5.09, but he ignored 6.05 and 7.09. All three rules are very specific to the double play and what a runner can't do. Baseball has *three* rules on this, but has yet to enforce any of them. Plus, the idea of "hey, the guy could reach the bag with his arm" is a bit laughable. Given the average height of a baseball player along with the additional gap for arm extension, we are talking about granting a player a very wide berth around the bag if we say he just needs to be able to reach it.

 

I would argue sliding into the base is having your body directly on or immediately to the left or right of the base. Don't count arm extension of the concept of "reach". That essentially gives the runner two feet to either side of the bag for a slide. If baseball adds that addendum and says, okay, we are going to enforce it from here on out.... it's really not that difficult.

[WorkingAllTheTime]

I

Goose -

 

Your argument is basically, "it happens all the time".

 

Yes, you are right on one level. It does happen all the time.... and every time it is *still* a violation of the written rules of the game. The problem is MLB just allows this to continue happening in the name of tradition and some warped sense of manhood. Those who read these boards know I love baseball, but they also know I am the first to say baseball lacks credibility regarding the "integrity of the game" because it so often ignores its rules and has a set of unwritten rules. This is a perfect example of that lack of integrity. Joe Torre says the play was clean (albeit late). Bullshit, Joe. According to the actual rules, it's not clean.

 

The rules are pretty clear. You have to go into the bag. You can't be out of the baseline. You can't try to interfere with a throw.

 

Like I said, a good hard slide *into* the bag and all is good. To the side of the bag is not into the bag. Utley went to the side, late, and high.

 

Does that make Utley a dirty player? Nope. He is just getting away with what MLB lets happen. I don't blame Utley. Hell, Utley is a second baseman and knows he has to deal with the same type of play from time-to-time. And, yeah, Tejada was in an awkward position..... off the base. I blame MLB for allowing this in the first place.

 

PS In the spirit of transparency, as a much younger, thinner man, I played second base. Every now and then a guy tried this kind of thing. Usually they didn't try it a second time. It might have to do with the fact I miraculously always came down with my cleats in his gut or worse. That wasn't really classy on my behalf, but it's what I did to protect myself in the future - especially when the ump didn't make the call.

 

If you slide wide of the base and get it with your arm you're good, and Utley could have conceivably done that. Cmon, the argument that hes out of the baseline is weak. It was a hard slide. It was not notable enough or different enough to cause outrage or a suspension.

 

Come on,

 

He slid late and went out of his way at the last moment. Hell, he might as well have just kept running at that point.

 

But he didnt. He slid late, and was in reach of the bag. The suspension is bullsh-t. And two games? And yet throwing a baseball 95mph at a player, intentionally, doesn't get you a suspension. BS. If you're not ready for that, then you don't take the ball that way on second.

Joe Torre's comments, which hardly seem to back up the suspension:

 

"It was really based on the fact that he slid very late and he hit Tejada and the ground at the same time," Torre said. "When you're targeting the player...He certainly didn't want to hurt him. He was just trying to break up a double play. I thought this was a bit much."

Certainly, Utley's appeal will be grounded in the fact players have avoided suspensions for similar - or even more malicious - slides. Torre sounds intent on establishing a new precedent, even as MLB and the union hammer out rule modifications to protect middle infielders.

"I can't worry about what's happened in the past," he said of Utley's appeal. "I just based it on what I say and that we're trying to have rules that are going to keep these players on the field. It's unfortunate; Chase Utley is a great player.

 

5]

http://www.usatoday....ppeal/73798166/

 

 

The suspension is just stupid. It's baseball trying to cover it's tracks for ignoring the rules all these years. They need to let Utley play and revisit the situation in the off season.

 

Ah, baseball and it's "integrity".

[goose]

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/39049312/v25415817/must-c-collision-holliday-slides-into-scutaro

 

MLB just following precedent, issuing the same suspension that was meted out to Scutaro after this 2012 playoff slide. Seems fair, reasonable, well-thought out.

 

 

 

 

 

:sarcastic:

[goose]

http://streamable.com/7cqd

 

Same suspension as was handed out to Gregorius after this slide, too. It all seems to make sense.

 

 

 

 

 

:sarcastic: :sarcastic:

[lerxt1990]

http://m.mlb.com/vid...es-into-scutaro

 

MLB just following precedent, issuing the same suspension that was meted out to Scutaro after this 2012 playoff slide. Seems fair, reasonable, well-thought out.

 

 

 

 

 

:sarcastic:

 

I think he launched himself past the bag which is a little worse. It's obviously a judgement call. But do we think this is way worse than purposefully throwing a 95 mph ball at a batter? (separate discussion)

[lerxt1990]

http://streamable.com/7cqd

 

Same suspension as was handed out to Gregorius after this slide, too. It all seems to make sense.

 

 

 

 

 

:sarcastic: :sarcastic:

 

That one was totally legal. Get out of the way.. if youre standing on second... :)

[lerxt1990]

What's the role of externalities on these suspensions?

[goose]

http://m.mlb.com/vid...es-into-scutaro

 

MLB just following precedent, issuing the same suspension that was meted out to Scutaro after this 2012 playoff slide. Seems fair, reasonable, well-thought out.

 

 

 

 

 

:sarcastic:

 

I think he launched himself past the bag which is a little worse. It's obviously a judgement call. But do we think this is way worse than purposefully throwing a 95 mph ball at a batter? (separate discussion)

That is potentially lethal.