Did Alex rip off the ending riff in Xanadu

[GeddysMullet]

Note to self: all those who think GeminiRising79 is being genuine are tools.

 

 

I've done some parodies and joked about a few things here and there, but I assure u I am serious here.

 

You're serious about wanting to stir the pot, but I'm quite certain you're not actually dumb enough to think it's anything but utter silliness to suggest that Alex is tainted as a guitarist because he displayed some similarities with Neal Schon.

[temporary madness]

^^^ I hope you're right geddysmullet. And I sincerely hope that he can continue to enjoy the music of Rush.

[losingit2k]

I just looked up the release dates of both albums, Next came out in February of '77...Kings came out in September..I just relistened to Nickel again...they basically keep repeating that same riff that starts at about 1:04 , with Neal soloing over it...its actually a rather unisnpiring instrumental, IMO...does anyone have the tour dates from Rush that year?..when were they in the studio?...You mean to tell me that somewhere between Feb and Sept, Alex heard Nickel and Dime, and boom!...Yeah, i gotta have that Riff!...it isnt THAT similar..

To answer your question, Alex pulled of this elaborate caper was during the 2112 Tour on April 28th, 1976 in Flint Michigan at IMA auditorium when he heard Neal Schon playing the riff live.

[losingit2k]

Note to self: all those who think GeminiRising79 is being genuine are tools.

 

No wonder this forum is known as Rush for Pussies.

And yet you keep visiting! Says a lot about you! :pussy:

[losingit2k]

The truth is, Alex's signature sound is NOT his signature sound. He brazenly nicked Schon in an obscure Journey instrumental, and by doing so, duped his fans and alienated one of his longer and more dedicated followers, me.

 

 

This shouldn't even need to be explained: Neal Schon did not invent the Arpeggio.

Arpeggio's have been around since music left the hands of Monks in monasteries, as have most chords.

 

Its not only the arpeggiation, its the powerchord that precedes, combined with the chorus effect. It is staggering to hear, and is no coincidence.

 

Maybe it is no coincidence. Maybe Alex liked the way it sounded. Did you ever think that maybe he was inspired by it? What was a one-off part to Neal Schon may have become the inspiration for one of Alex's signature styles.

 

That is how music works.

 

Nothing in music is completely original, it can't be. All the parts have already been written. Every sequence of chords has been played already. If you were to pick up a guitar and start playing, you would end up playing something that some one else already played.

 

If you were to write music, all you would be doing is combining elements that you've heard before in new ways. That is how influence works. So what if Neal Schon wrote and performed that Zanadu riff first? He didn't actually write Zanadu. At most he planted a seed in Alex's head that, when combined with all of his other influences led to Zanadu.

 

Every artist does this. This is how people come up with new ideas, by filtering old ideas through their own heads and replicating them.

 

If this makes you not like Rush anymore (even though you never did like them anyway based on all of your other posts) then you also have to hate EVERY OTHER ARTIST IN HISTORY BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL GUILTY OF THIS.

 

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand music.

 

EDIT: I'm gonna expand upon this. What if when Alex first heard that song it just filled his head with ideas? He started imagining variations and other parts that might fit well with them. Things like Cyngus X-1 part 2 or Spirit of Radio. Should he have taken those incredible ideas and just thrown them away purely because they were based on something he's heard before? I don't think so. He went on to make great music that we all love using that style.

 

Besides as I said earlier he was already using the sweeping arpeggios as early as Fly by Night, specifically on Anthem during the verses.

Agreed. Like I said before, Neal had a gold nugget in his hand, didn't realize it and placed it back in the river. Alex knew better and snatched it right up. The rest is history. Oh What's a Zanadu?

[coventry]

The truth is, Alex's signature sound is NOT his signature sound. He brazenly nicked Schon in an obscure Journey instrumental, and by doing so, duped his fans and alienated one of his longer and more dedicated followers, me.

 

 

This shouldn't even need to be explained: Neal Schon did not invent the Arpeggio.

Arpeggio's have been around since music left the hands of Monks in monasteries, as have most chords.

 

Its not only the arpeggiation, its the powerchord that precedes, combined with the chorus effect. It is staggering to hear, and is no coincidence.

 

Seriously? At this point, is it really even worth it? It's like a minor version of the old "Paul is dead" myth of 1966. The point being that even IF Paul McCartney died and was replaced by a look- and sound-alike in 1966, then by 1968 it didn;t matter. The person who is Paul IS Paul.

 

Alex's sound is Alex's sound.

 

How many professional drummers over the years have co-oped Neil's style and fills and have worked them into their own playing?

[losingit2k]

The truth is, Alex's signature sound is NOT his signature sound. He brazenly nicked Schon in an obscure Journey instrumental, and by doing so, duped his fans and alienated one of his longer and more dedicated followers, me.

 

 

This shouldn't even need to be explained: Neal Schon did not invent the Arpeggio.

Arpeggio's have been around since music left the hands of Monks in monasteries, as have most chords.

 

Its not only the arpeggiation, its the powerchord that precedes, combined with the chorus effect. It is staggering to hear, and is no coincidence.

 

Seriously? At this point, is it really even worth it? It's like a minor version of the old "Paul is dead" myth of 1966. The point being that even IF Paul McCartney died and was replaced by a look- and sound-alike in 1966, then by 1968 it didn;t matter. The person who is Paul IS Paul.

 

Alex's sound is Alex's sound.

 

How many professional drummers over the years have co-oped Neil's style and fills and have worked them into their own playing?

OK I'm game. How many drummers?

[coventry]

I just looked up the release dates of both albums, Next came out in February of '77...Kings came out in September..I just relistened to Nickel again...they basically keep repeating that same riff that starts at about 1:04 , with Neal soloing over it...its actually a rather unisnpiring instrumental, IMO...does anyone have the tour dates from Rush that year?..when were they in the studio?...You mean to tell me that somewhere between Feb and Sept, Alex heard Nickel and Dime, and boom!...Yeah, i gotta have that Riff!...it isnt THAT similar..

 

What if Alex ran with the riff? It's the nature of the beast. Did 't Pete Townshend admit to ripping off Ray Davies?

 

I agree. Perhaps he did. But really, nothing else about Nickel has ANY similarity to Xanadu...and that open chord ringing arpeggio isnt , IMO, the MAIN focus of Xanadu. I think it was you who mentioned the Coldplay/Satriani lawsuit,.and yeah, both songs have the exact same melody...its obvious..these two songs may have a similar FEEL in certain parts, but the compositions are completely different outside of that one riff...

 

Agreed. They are totally different songs. I can't tell how often I hear a new song and I hear a tiny snippet of something familiar.

 

Little dig at Alex from Neal at NAMM this year..discussing his guitars for Les Paul...from 4:00 to : 4:45 or so..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9XahzlkSk

 

Hmmm. Let's see. On the grand scale of rock/music zeitgeist.

 

Rush/Alex = powerfully influential band; hallmarks of musical dedication; wise elders, per se, of prog rock, etc.

 

Journey/Neal = covered by Glee

[losingit2k]

I just looked up the release dates of both albums, Next came out in February of '77...Kings came out in September..I just relistened to Nickel again...they basically keep repeating that same riff that starts at about 1:04 , with Neal soloing over it...its actually a rather unisnpiring instrumental, IMO...does anyone have the tour dates from Rush that year?..when were they in the studio?...You mean to tell me that somewhere between Feb and Sept, Alex heard Nickel and Dime, and boom!...Yeah, i gotta have that Riff!...it isnt THAT similar..

 

What if Alex ran with the riff? It's the nature of the beast. Did 't Pete Townshend admit to ripping off Ray Davies?

 

I agree. Perhaps he did. But really, nothing else about Nickel has ANY similarity to Xanadu...and that open chord ringing arpeggio isnt , IMO, the MAIN focus of Xanadu. I think it was you who mentioned the Coldplay/Satriani lawsuit,.and yeah, both songs have the exact same melody...its obvious..these two songs may have a similar FEEL in certain parts, but the compositions are completely different outside of that one riff...

 

Agreed. They are totally different songs. I can't tell how often I hear a new song and I hear a tiny snippet of something familiar.

 

Little dig at Alex from Neal at NAMM this year..discussing his guitars for Les Paul...from 4:00 to : 4:45 or so..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9XahzlkSk

 

Hmmm. Let's see. On the grand scale of rock/music zeitgeist.

 

Rush/Alex = powerfully influential band; hallmarks of musical dedication; wise elders, per se, of prog rock, etc.

 

Journey/Neal = covered by Glee

That's funny. But honestly, Neal Schon is a great guitarist. He even played with Santana for a spell. Yes, he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder and really shouldn't take the frustration with his lead singer out on a fellow guitarist. He has written some extremely great music including some of my favorite songs but he should just bite the bullet and make peace with Steve Perry and stop the animosity towards other bands and musicians that have had a longer more profound career than he. :codger:

[Tony R]

I just looked up the release dates of both albums, Next came out in February of '77...Kings came out in September..I just relistened to Nickel again...they basically keep repeating that same riff that starts at about 1:04 , with Neal soloing over it...its actually a rather unisnpiring instrumental, IMO...does anyone have the tour dates from Rush that year?..when were they in the studio?...You mean to tell me that somewhere between Feb and Sept, Alex heard Nickel and Dime, and boom!...Yeah, i gotta have that Riff!...it isnt THAT similar..

 

What if Alex ran with the riff? It's the nature of the beast. Did 't Pete Townshend admit to ripping off Ray Davies?

 

I agree. Perhaps he did. But really, nothing else about Nickel has ANY similarity to Xanadu...and that open chord ringing arpeggio isnt , IMO, the MAIN focus of Xanadu. I think it was you who mentioned the Coldplay/Satriani lawsuit,.and yeah, both songs have the exact same melody...its obvious..these two songs may have a similar FEEL in certain parts, but the compositions are completely different outside of that one riff...

 

Agreed. They are totally different songs. I can't tell how often I hear a new song and I hear a tiny snippet of something familiar.

 

Little dig at Alex from Neal at NAMM this year..discussing his guitars for Les Paul...from 4:00 to : 4:45 or so..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9XahzlkSk

 

Hmmm. Let's see. On the grand scale of rock/music zeitgeist.

 

Rush/Alex = powerfully influential band; hallmarks of musical dedication; wise elders, per se, of prog rock, etc.

 

Journey/Neal = covered by Glee

 

Rush certainly are not "wise elders of Prog Rock". Their debut album, which contains zero Prog Rock, came 4 years after King Crimson's game-changing debut.

 

Journey have also sold 75 million albums and the founder members were members of Santana. Their pre-Steve Perry albums are considered Prog. In many respects their career path for a long while was similar to that of Rush.

[Virtualbob64]

I don't think Alex did it intentionally.Anyway,there's another riff from Journey's pre Steve Perry era that Kansas seems to have ripped off in 'Carry On Wayward Son"I can't remember the song at the moment,have to do some research.I'll be back with it.Anyway,has anybody ever compared Aerosmith's "Train Kept A Rollin" with Foghat's "Honey Hush"?Check it out!

[Virtualbob64]

I don't think Alex did it intentionally.Anyway,there's another riff from Journey's pre Steve Perry era that Kansas seems to have ripped off in 'Carry On Wayward Son"I can't remember the song at the moment,have to do some research.I'll be back with it.Anyway,has anybody ever compared Aerosmith's "Train Kept A Rollin" with Foghat's "Honey Hush"?Check it out!

Got it! Listen to the opening riff from Journey's I'm Gonna Leave You"

[ReRushed]

I don't think Alex did it intentionally.Anyway,there's another riff from Journey's pre Steve Perry era that Kansas seems to have ripped off in 'Carry On Wayward Son"I can't remember the song at the moment,have to do some research.I'll be back with it.Anyway,has anybody ever compared Aerosmith's "Train Kept A Rollin" with Foghat's "Honey Hush"?Check it out!

 

"Train Kept A Rollin" and "Honey Hush" are songs from the fiftes, both covered by numerous bands and artists. Way back in time, riffs were commonly traded between songs. Apparently, it's only an issue when Alex Lifeson does it.

[GeminiRising79]

^^^ I hope you're right geddysmullet. And I sincerely hope that he can continue to enjoy the music of Rush.

 

Thanks TM. I will continue to enjoy the older music. This was just another (but bigger) strike against the band for me, personally. I'm disgusted with Alex/Rush for this Schon incident, but still love them. Perhaps its better for me to retire my current interest in Rush and just enjoy the older material before I find more dirt on them and abandon them for good. Again, my sentiments are genuine... my intention isn't to whack the hive.

[ReRushed]

^^^ I hope you're right geddysmullet. And I sincerely hope that he can continue to enjoy the music of Rush.

 

Thanks TM. I will continue to enjoy the older music. This was just another (but bigger) strike against the band for me, personally. I'm disgusted with Alex/Rush for this Schon incident, but still love them. Perhaps its better for me to retire my current interest in Rush and just enjoy the older material before I find more dirt on them and abandon them for good. Again, my sentiments are genuine... my intention isn't to whack the hive.

 

Dirt? Obviously, there is no evidence other than your posts on this forum, but you come across as someone who is incapable of enjoying music. I'll pull your schtick and claim unquestionably that you are not a Rush fan. It's better you embrace the truth. You'll feel better!

[coventry]

I just looked up the release dates of both albums, Next came out in February of '77...Kings came out in September..I just relistened to Nickel again...they basically keep repeating that same riff that starts at about 1:04 , with Neal soloing over it...its actually a rather unisnpiring instrumental, IMO...does anyone have the tour dates from Rush that year?..when were they in the studio?...You mean to tell me that somewhere between Feb and Sept, Alex heard Nickel and Dime, and boom!...Yeah, i gotta have that Riff!...it isnt THAT similar..

 

What if Alex ran with the riff? It's the nature of the beast. Did 't Pete Townshend admit to ripping off Ray Davies?

 

I agree. Perhaps he did. But really, nothing else about Nickel has ANY similarity to Xanadu...and that open chord ringing arpeggio isnt , IMO, the MAIN focus of Xanadu. I think it was you who mentioned the Coldplay/Satriani lawsuit,.and yeah, both songs have the exact same melody...its obvious..these two songs may have a similar FEEL in certain parts, but the compositions are completely different outside of that one riff...

 

Agreed. They are totally different songs. I can't tell how often I hear a new song and I hear a tiny snippet of something familiar.

 

Little dig at Alex from Neal at NAMM this year..discussing his guitars for Les Paul...from 4:00 to : 4:45 or so..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9XahzlkSk

 

Hmmm. Let's see. On the grand scale of rock/music zeitgeist.

 

Rush/Alex = powerfully influential band; hallmarks of musical dedication; wise elders, per se, of prog rock, etc.

 

Journey/Neal = covered by Glee

 

Rush certainly are not "wise elders of Prog Rock". Their debut album, which contains zero Prog Rock, came 4 years after King Crimson's game-changing debut.

 

Journey have also sold 75 million albums and the founder members were members of Santana. Their pre-Steve Perry albums are considered Prog. In many respects their career path for a long while was similar to that of Rush.

 

Lighten up, peeps. I'm fully aware of what a creative and musical force Journey is. I, too, sing along with goosebumps whenever I hear the chorus to "Ask the Lonely"; feel like chilling in a dimly lit 3 a.m. bar when Neal plays that outro to "I'll Be Alright Without You", etc...

 

However, outside of prog circles, I doubt very many would categorize Journey as prog. It's like the blues version of Fleetwood Mac that was before Buckingham/Nicks climbed aboard -- that's what they might have been, but they left that part behind long ago.

[EagleMoon]

I just looked up the release dates of both albums, Next came out in February of '77...Kings came out in September..I just relistened to Nickel again...they basically keep repeating that same riff that starts at about 1:04 , with Neal soloing over it...its actually a rather unisnpiring instrumental, IMO...does anyone have the tour dates from Rush that year?..when were they in the studio?...You mean to tell me that somewhere between Feb and Sept, Alex heard Nickel and Dime, and boom!...Yeah, i gotta have that Riff!...it isnt THAT similar..

 

What if Alex ran with the riff? It's the nature of the beast. Did 't Pete Townshend admit to ripping off Ray Davies?

 

I agree. Perhaps he did. But really, nothing else about Nickel has ANY similarity to Xanadu...and that open chord ringing arpeggio isnt , IMO, the MAIN focus of Xanadu. I think it was you who mentioned the Coldplay/Satriani lawsuit,.and yeah, both songs have the exact same melody...its obvious..these two songs may have a similar FEEL in certain parts, but the compositions are completely different outside of that one riff...

 

Agreed. They are totally different songs. I can't tell how often I hear a new song and I hear a tiny snippet of something familiar.

 

Little dig at Alex from Neal at NAMM this year..discussing his guitars for Les Paul...from 4:00 to : 4:45 or so..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9XahzlkSk

 

Hmmm. Let's see. On the grand scale of rock/music zeitgeist.

 

Rush/Alex = powerfully influential band; hallmarks of musical dedication; wise elders, per se, of prog rock, etc.

 

Journey/Neal = covered by Glee

That's funny. But honestly, Neal Schon is a great guitarist. He even played with Santana for a spell. Yes, he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder and really shouldn't take the frustration with his lead singer out on a fellow guitarist. He has written some extremely great music including some of my favorite songs but he should just bite the bullet and make peace with Steve Perry and stop the animosity towards other bands and musicians that have had a longer more profound career than he. :codger:

 

I think he's a great guitarist as well but he definitely has that chip on his shoulder. I agree about the Steve Perry thing. That should have never happened.

 

And on another note, it takes more than just a neck joint to make a guitar. That was just obviously a jealousy comment on his part and I'm sure he regrets not taking advantage of Gibson's offer to start with.

[Supersyl]

What a bitter old man... He should start a band with Ginger Baker!

[ReRushed]

I just looked up the release dates of both albums, Next came out in February of '77...Kings came out in September..I just relistened to Nickel again...they basically keep repeating that same riff that starts at about 1:04 , with Neal soloing over it...its actually a rather unisnpiring instrumental, IMO...does anyone have the tour dates from Rush that year?..when were they in the studio?...You mean to tell me that somewhere between Feb and Sept, Alex heard Nickel and Dime, and boom!...Yeah, i gotta have that Riff!...it isnt THAT similar..

To answer your question, Alex pulled of this elaborate caper was during the 2112 Tour on April 28th, 1976 in Flint Michigan at IMA auditorium when he heard Neal Schon playing the riff live.

 

Maybe Neal Schon heard Alex Lifeson playing the chord progression during Rush's soundcheck? So it's plausible that Neal Schon nicked the riff!

[ReRushed]

What a bitter old man... He should start a band with Ginger Baker!

 

This could be the start of a very good band!

[ReRushed]

Okay, I am currently listening to 2112 and I gotta tell ya, what I'm hearing on it seems to have been expanded on A Farewell to Kings. Listen to "Soliloquy" and "Something for Nothing", for instance.

 

And I listened to "NIckel and Dime" and "Xanadu" back to back. Totally different songs with different feels.

 

It sounds like some one is projecting...

Edited November 4, 2013 by ReRushed

[GeminiRising79]

Rejecting, not projecting

[ReRushed]

Rejecting, not projecting

 

Rejecting, yes, and accepting the truth that you simply do not like or respect the members of Rush as musicians (and human beings). Do you not hear Alex Lifeson doing the same things on 2112 that you accuse him on deliberately stealing from a song released approximately a year later than 2112?

[GeminiRising79]

I think this controversy should be addressed by Alex. If he prefers to avoid discussing, there's your answer. Without a doubt I believe he pirated Neal's work.

[Dscrapre]

The truth is, Alex's signature sound is NOT his signature sound. He brazenly nicked Schon in an obscure Journey instrumental, and by doing so, duped his fans and alienated one of his longer and more dedicated followers, me.

 

 

This shouldn't even need to be explained: Neal Schon did not invent the Arpeggio.

Arpeggio's have been around since music left the hands of Monks in monasteries, as have most chords.

 

Its not only the arpeggiation, its the powerchord that precedes, combined with the chorus effect. It is staggering to hear, and is no coincidence.

 

Maybe it is no coincidence. Maybe Alex liked the way it sounded. Did you ever think that maybe he was inspired by it? What was a one-off part to Neal Schon may have become the inspiration for one of Alex's signature styles.

 

That is how music works.

 

Nothing in music is completely original, it can't be. All the parts have already been written. Every sequence of chords has been played already. If you were to pick up a guitar and start playing, you would end up playing something that some one else already played.

 

If you were to write music, all you would be doing is combining elements that you've heard before in new ways. That is how influence works. So what if Neal Schon wrote and performed that Zanadu riff first? He didn't actually write Zanadu. At most he planted a seed in Alex's head that, when combined with all of his other influences led to Zanadu.

 

Every artist does this. This is how people come up with new ideas, by filtering old ideas through their own heads and replicating them.

 

If this makes you not like Rush anymore (even though you never did like them anyway based on all of your other posts) then you also have to hate EVERY OTHER ARTIST IN HISTORY BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL GUILTY OF THIS.

 

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand music.

 

EDIT: I'm gonna expand upon this. What if when Alex first heard that song it just filled his head with ideas? He started imagining variations and other parts that might fit well with them. Things like Cyngus X-1 part 2 or Spirit of Radio. Should he have taken those incredible ideas and just thrown them away purely because they were based on something he's heard before? I don't think so. He went on to make great music that we all love using that style.

 

Besides as I said earlier he was already using the sweeping arpeggios as early as Fly by Night, specifically on Anthem during the verses.

Agreed. Like I said before, Neal had a gold nugget in his hand, didn't realize it and placed it back in the river. Alex knew better and snatched it right up. The rest is history. Oh What's a Zanadu?

 

WOW, Oops! It was 5 in the morning where I am so give me a break.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Dscrapre