How heavy is Geddy's tone on HF

[CygnusGal]

Can anyone please provide an example of a deeper and heavier tone than Geddy's playing on Headlong Flight when he " ... stoked the fire on the big steel wheels, steered the airships right across the stars..." ?

 

Distinct and unmuddy tone are a given - it is Geddy after all (brilliant attack and articulation). I'm talking *heavy*. Really, really heavy.

 

His heaviness and his tone are mind-numbingly fantastic, to my bass-centric ear. Its just a regular old E, but its so heavy! I don't hear a bass pedal or synth like on the old stuff.

 

I'm not asking to be pugilistic or difficult; I'm genuinely curious.

 

Which song/riff is heavier than HF "...stoked the fires..."?

 

[Snaked]

Listen to Show Don't Tell from Different Stages.

It's a shame that Presto wasn't recorded with that same sound.

[trenken]

As far as the bass on studio albums? He has a lot in the old days where the bass was heavier. The Rick has a very distorted sound to it. He doesn't use it anymore.

[trenken]

By the way that bass is processed there. You can clearly hear the actual bass sound itself with those little notes at 2:28.

 

The heavier part definitely has some processing going on so its not just a plain old bass playing there.

[pedro2112]

I thought they did use Bass Pedals during the Chorus of HF? Or are you talking about something else?

[Weakly Criminal]

QUOTE (CygnusGal @ Jul 7 2012, 08:59 AM)

Can anyone please provide an example of a deeper and heavier tone than Geddy's playing on Headlong Flight when he " ... stoked the fire on the big steel wheels, steered the airships right across the stars..." ? Distinct and unmuddy tone are a given - it is Geddy after all (brilliant attack and articulation).  I'm talking *heavy*.  Really, really heavy. His heaviness and his tone are mind-numbingly fantastic, to my bass-centric ear.  Its just a regular old E, but its so heavy!  I don't hear a bass pedal or synth like on the old stuff. I'm not asking to be pugilistic or difficult;  I'm genuinely curious. Which song/riff is heavier than HF "...stoked the fires..."?

That's one of the best ever. Really. Ged just kills it on this album, but he's killed it for a very long time. I would point out YYZ as the most obvious example. There are plenty of others. All of HYF.

 

This album seems to me to be an invitation to go back through the library and just check out what they've done. It's freaking amazing. These guys are the shit!

[bigman208]

QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jul 7 2012, 12:06 PM)

I thought they did use Bass Pedals during the Chorus of HF? Or are you talking about something else?

I can definitely hear Taurus pedals in that section. It sounds to me like he is playing his bass at the same time as the bass pedals.

[CygnusGal]

QUOTE (CygnusGal @ Jul 7 2012, 10:59 AM)

I don't hear a bass pedal or synth like on the old stuff.

Reviewing the liner notes, I do see bass pedal listed as a credit to Geddy (duh).

 

And, I think I can answer my own post (poor form though it may be).

 

Tom Sawyer (duh). The one that started it all with the chord that started it all for me. I just listened to it and it is as heavy as heavy is.

 

Two "duhs" on a single post. Consider it a stream of conscience moment. Looks like I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue.

 

It is still monsterously heavy though.

[CygnusGal]

Listening to my peers ( - thanks!) and my open ears, I returned to the catalog and listened to many of the suggestions and some of my own touchstones. CygnusX-1 (my personal favorite - at least until CA album came out, a bittersweet thank you guys) and By-Tor, MP in its entirety (no wonder I fell in love with these guys), Show Don't Tell, Manhattan Project, Territories, Middletown Dreams, Animate, Driven. I hear all as very bright and very crisp sounding, especially once Terry Brown departed. They are very different mixes and difficult to compare by nature, especially as technology advanced and aesthetics changed.

 

As I listen to Headlong Flight, I note that Geddy's vocals don't "float" above the mix like they do in earlier Rush (say pre- VT). Headlong Flight is thick, but not muddy. The bass is certainly overdriven, as Geddy said in an interview I heard back in the 90s regarding Animate "...that's the sound of my amp exploding...". If I think of Geddy's bass tone on Moving Pictures (my bedrock, my diamond standard) as sounding like a finely tuned British racing auto (throaty and growly, powerful and beautiful), Headlong Flight sounds like a steam powered airship (huge turning pieces and parts, impossible to fly but epic and beautiful in its flight).

 

Hmmm....

 

And what exactly is that clickey thing at the beginning, anyway? Just been wrecked in the narrative, no airship to take one home. A recollection of a steam powered airship starting up?

[spock]

I definitely noticed more of a growl throughout this album than in any others. And, it's not consistent through every song - I'll hear the overdrive in some sections but then it backs off in others. It's a great effect, through. Seems right at home in these songs. I do love hearing the extended bass playing in songs like Seven Cities, sounds like Geddy is REALLY having fun on CA.

 

I will always wonder why he's never gone back to the Ric, though. That sound is so unique. The Fenders don't sound bad, but they don't have the voice of a Rickenbacker...anyone know the story behind why he left them behind? I heard him say that the double-neck is heavy, but after watching him play the Rick on the Classic Album (2112/MP), I realized that the single neck is not much larger than the Fender Jazz...?

[CygnusGal]

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 8 2012, 07:37 PM)

<snip> I will always wonder why he's never gone back to the Ric, though. That sound is so unique. The Fenders don't sound bad, but they don't have the voice of a Rickenbacker...anyone know the story behind why he left them behind? I heard him say that the double-neck is heavy, but after watching him play the Rick on the Classic Album (2112/MP), I realized that the single neck is not much larger than the Fender Jazz...?

I don't know for sure, but can speculate...

 

Fender Precision and/or Jazz bass with an Ampeg SVT 350 head is the gold standard for bass players (this bass player, at least). P- bass is heavy and not very ergonomic (like playing a brick) but it sounds really, really good. P- bass has a C shaped neck so you have to work harder (i.e. stretch more) and square corners and no cut aways make it heavy to hold for a few hours. A J- bass has a D shaped neck. J- bass are lighter (cut away at back to sit more comfortably and at the top front so its easier on the forearm with rounded edges reduce weight making it easier to carry around for a few hours) and the D- shaped neck makes for a lighter, faster touch from my experience.

 

Rics are heavy and fussy, even in their single neck incarnations. Stereo output with a trebley sound and they are very distinct (Chris Squire, Roger Glover, for example). Dual truss rods in the neck makes them unstable (imo). When they are on, they play and sound like nothing else. When they're out, they're out by a mile and sound weird with terrible intonation.

 

J- bass is rock solid, smooth to play and has a consistent tone. J- bass will never let you down and 100 years from now, I would bet that the P- / J- basses continue to define the low-end gold standard.

 

I'm curious (off-topic) where amplification is heading since the tube-based SVT350 and the stack it drove is now replaced by a Sans amp, a light-weight yet heavy sounding "bar", digital shaping or just straight into the board.

 

Just my opinions, and I have gazillions...

[pedro2112]

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 8 2012, 05:37 PM)

I definitely noticed more of a growl throughout this album than in any others. And, it's not consistent through every song - I'll hear the overdrive in some sections but then it backs off in others. It's a great effect, through. Seems right at home in these songs. I do love hearing the extended bass playing in songs like Seven Cities, sounds like Geddy is REALLY having fun on CA. I will always wonder why he's never gone back to the Ric, though. That sound is so unique. The Fenders don't sound bad, but they don't have the voice of a Rickenbacker...anyone know the story behind why he left them behind? I heard him say that the double-neck is heavy, but after watching him play the Rick on the Classic Album (2112/MP), I realized that the single neck is not much larger than the Fender Jazz...?

I thought he played the Fender for most of MP except for Red Barchetta?

[trenken]

That heavy sound you're hearing in the HF in not just a bass. There are processed sounds there thickening it up. Like I said you can tell from those little notes he plays at the time I mentioned. That's the actual bass.

 

Live if they want it to sound that think they'll probably have Geddy on the bass pedals.

[spock]

QUOTE (CygnusGal @ Jul 8 2012, 07:59 PM)

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 8 2012, 07:37 PM) <snip> I will always wonder why he's never gone back to the Ric, though. That sound is so unique. The Fenders don't sound bad, but they don't have the voice of a Rickenbacker...anyone know the story behind why he left them behind? I heard him say that the double-neck is heavy, but after watching him play the Rick on the Classic Album (2112/MP), I realized that the single neck is not much larger than the Fender Jazz...? I don't know for sure, but can speculate...   Fender Precision and/or Jazz bass with an Ampeg SVT 350 head is the gold standard for bass players (this bass player, at least). P- bass is heavy and not very ergonomic (like playing a brick) but it sounds really, really good. P- bass has a C shaped neck so you have to work harder (i.e. stretch more) and square corners and no cut aways make it heavy to hold for a few hours. A J- bass has a D shaped neck. J- bass are lighter (cut away at back to sit more comfortably and at the top front so its easier on the forearm with rounded edges reduce weight making it easier to carry around for a few hours) and the D- shaped neck makes for a lighter, faster touch from my experience.   Rics are heavy and fussy, even in their single neck incarnations. Stereo output with a trebley sound and they are very distinct (Chris Squire, Roger Glover, for example). Dual truss rods in the neck makes them unstable (imo). When they are on, they play and sound like nothing else. When they're out, they're out by a mile and sound weird with terrible intonation.   J- bass is rock solid, smooth to play and has a consistent tone. J- bass will never let you down and 100 years from now, I would bet that the P- / J- basses continue to define the low-end gold standard.   I'm curious (off-topic) where amplification is heading since the tube-based SVT350 and the stack it drove is now replaced by a Sans amp, a light-weight yet heavy sounding "bar", digital shaping or just straight into the board.   Just my opinions, and I have gazillions... That all makes a lot of sense. I play 99% guitar and 1% bass (out of necessity - write/record my own stuff) so I have a Peavy bass that limps along. I've played a Geddy Lee Jazz Bass - it was very comfortable (compared to a P-bass) and had a great range of sounds. I play directly into a digital recorder so I don't know jack about amps. It definitely sounds like a Rick is a fussy instrument - probably high maintenance on the road.   Thanks for the info!

[CygnusGal]

QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jul 8 2012, 09:40 PM)

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 8 2012, 05:37 PM) I definitely noticed more of a growl throughout this album than in any others. And, it's not consistent through every song - I'll hear the overdrive in some sections but then it backs off in others. It's a great effect, through. Seems right at home in these songs. I do love hearing the extended bass playing in songs like Seven Cities, sounds like Geddy is REALLY having fun on CA. I will always wonder why he's never gone back to the Ric, though. That sound is so unique. The Fenders don't sound bad, but they don't have the voice of a Rickenbacker...anyone know the story behind why he left them behind? I heard him say that the double-neck is heavy, but after watching him play the Rick on the Classic Album (2112/MP), I realized that the single neck is not much larger than the Fender Jazz...? I thought he played the Fender for most of MP except for Red Barchetta? Geddy has played a P- or J- Fender for virtually everything he has recorded in the studio. I think Hemispheres was a Ric (and outside to boot - why it sounds so weird) and perhaps X1 also. Live was Ric or J-bass. Ric wasn't used very often in the studio.   This is what I understand to be true, though I have heard:   "Trust not in your own understanding. Ignorance is well, and truly blessed."

[treeduck]

QUOTE (CygnusGal @ Jul 10 2012, 04:53 PM)

QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jul 8 2012, 09:40 PM) QUOTE (spock @ Jul 8 2012, 05:37 PM) I definitely noticed more of a growl throughout this album than in any others. And, it's not consistent through every song - I'll hear the overdrive in some sections but then it backs off in others. It's a great effect, through. Seems right at home in these songs. I do love hearing the extended bass playing in songs like Seven Cities, sounds like Geddy is REALLY having fun on CA. I will always wonder why he's never gone back to the Ric, though. That sound is so unique. The Fenders don't sound bad, but they don't have the voice of a Rickenbacker...anyone know the story behind why he left them behind? I heard him say that the double-neck is heavy, but after watching him play the Rick on the Classic Album (2112/MP), I realized that the single neck is not much larger than the Fender Jazz...? I thought he played the Fender for most of MP except for Red Barchetta? Geddy has played a P- or J- Fender for virtually everything he has recorded in the studio. I think Hemispheres was a Ric (and outside to boot - why it sounds so weird) and perhaps X1 also. Live was Ric or J-bass. Ric wasn't used very often in the studio.   This is what I understand to be true, though I have heard:   "Trust not in your own understanding. Ignorance is well, and truly blessed." noob?

[Sticklight]

QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jul 8 2012, 08:40 PM)

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 8 2012, 05:37 PM) I definitely noticed more of a growl throughout this album than in any others. And, it's not consistent through every song - I'll hear the overdrive in some sections but then it backs off in others. It's a great effect, through. Seems right at home in these songs. I do love hearing the extended bass playing in songs like Seven Cities, sounds like Geddy is REALLY having fun on CA. I will always wonder why he's never gone back to the Ric, though. That sound is so unique. The Fenders don't sound bad, but they don't have the voice of a Rickenbacker...anyone know the story behind why he left them behind? I heard him say that the double-neck is heavy, but after watching him play the Rick on the Classic Album (2112/MP), I realized that the single neck is not much larger than the Fender Jazz...? I thought he played the Fender for most of MP except for Red Barchetta? Well, here's the list:   Fender - Tom Sawyer, YYZ, Witch Hunt, Vital Signs. Rick - Red Barchetta, Limelight, The Camera Eye.

[CygnusGal]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 10 2012, 06:01 PM)

noob?

I do not understand the context. Noob (I presume, newbie)?

 

To the forum, certainly. I have fewer than 30 posts and others in here are in the 5-digits - I'm a baby to the culture of "The Rush Forum".

 

To the band? Hardly. I didn't get dragged to the shows on my signature; I've bought every album since Signals on the day it was released (HYF was a tough one for me, but I bought it anyway).

 

I bought a bass guitar and learned how to play it (pretty darn well, too) because of Geddy and was ignorant enough to think that if I could play Tom Sawyer (I can), I could play anything (I can't). I worship the tone of Geddy's bass, his lyricism and his chops. I wanted a Rickenbacker 4001 forever (until I played one...more props to Geddy) and chased that throaty tone for a long time.

 

Then, I met a very talented bass player at university who could play Rush! OMG! He gave me some rudimentary lessons (don't suck) and I spent the next several years learning and listening and playing. Years later, we caught up and he told a story of how he was doing a recording and wanted to get a tone like Geddy. The producer (no small egg) laughed and said you have to *play* like that.

 

Years ago, I read an interview that had been using Fender basses since the 60s. With the money they got from Mercury/Moon, they bought gear - Alex got his sunburst Les Paul and Geddy his Ric 4001. The original instruments never went away. He used them in the studio for parts. New stuff always and exclusively onstage (I have no Rush posters without a Ric and only learned of the J- bass through the Le Studio videos - TS has a Ric, Limelight and Vital Signs J-bass - just watched the videos to confirm). I was confused. Ric/J-bass, what was I hearing? That was back in the dark ages before the "internets" (sic).

 

I persisted through Geddy's L2 days, the Wal bass, understood the Hentor the Barbarian joke (the neck was too long). Some recordings were made with the new gear, some with the old. He always used the new stuff live. Finally with CP, all the new bass stuff fell by the wayside (now onto the amps....). He went back to J-bass exclusively - Fender even designed a custom one for him.

 

BTW, does anybody know what year Geddy bought his J-bass at the pawn shop in Kalamazoo, MI?

 

Noob? No, dues we're paid a long, long time ago, thank you very much.

 

I presume no slight was intended by the noob comment, so none is taken.

 

[Sticklight]

QUOTE (CygnusGal @ Jul 10 2012, 09:14 PM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 10 2012, 06:01 PM) noob? I do not understand the context. Noob (I presume, newbie)?   To the forum, certainly. I have fewer than 30 posts and others in here are in the 5-digits - I'm a baby to the culture of "The Rush Forum".   To the band? Hardly. I didn't get dragged to the shows on my signature; I've bought every album since Signals on the day it was released (HYF was a tough one for me, but I bought it anyway).   I bought a bass guitar and learned how to play it (pretty darn well, too) because of Geddy and was ignorant enough to think that if I could play Tom Sawyer (I can), I could play anything (I can't). I worship the tone of Geddy's bass, his lyricism and his chops. I wanted a Rickenbacker 4001 forever (until I played one...more props to Geddy) and chased that throaty tone for a long time.   Then, I met a very talented bass player at university who could play Rush! OMG! He gave me some rudimentary lessons (don't suck) and I spent the next several years learning and listening and playing. Years later, we caught up and he told a story of how he was doing a recording and wanted to get a tone like Geddy. The producer (no small egg) laughed and said you have to *play* like that.   Years ago, I read an interview that had been using Fender basses since the 60s. With the money they got from Mercury/Moon, they bought gear - Alex got his sunburst Les Paul and Geddy his Ric 4001. The original instruments never went away. He used them in the studio for parts. New stuff always and exclusively onstage (I have no Rush posters without a Ric and only learned of the J- bass through the Le Studio videos - TS has a Ric, Limelight and Vital Signs J-bass - just watched the videos to confirm). I was confused. Ric/J-bass, what was I hearing? That was back in the dark ages before the "internets" (sic).   I persisted through Geddy's L2 days, the Wal bass, understood the Hentor the Barbarian joke (the neck was too long). Some recordings were made with the new gear, some with the old. He always used the new stuff live. Finally with CP, all the new bass stuff fell by the wayside (now onto the amps....). He went back to J-bass exclusively - Fender even designed a custom one for him.   BTW, does anybody know what year Geddy bought his J-bass at the pawn shop in Kalamazoo, MI?   Noob? No, dues we're paid a long, long time ago, thank you very much.   I presume no slight was intended by the noob comment, so none is taken.   That's a wonderful story!   Here's Tom Sawyer's isolated bass track. It's simply the best J-bass tone I've ever heard. Thought you'd like to hear it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlGibhuobrM

[Rushman14]

QUOTE (bigman208 @ Jul 7 2012, 09:10 AM)

QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jul 7 2012, 12:06 PM) I thought they did use Bass Pedals during the Chorus of HF? Or are you talking about something else? I can definitely hear Taurus pedals in that section. It sounds to me like he is playing his bass at the same time as the bass pedals. yes, and it's borderline over the top. my car stereo no likey.

[Weakly Criminal]

What a total nerd-fest.

 

I love it!!!

[Del_Duio]

Might not be heavier, but I love when Ged comes in with the synths after the opening of Countdown.

 

Bass sounds AWESOME for that part.

[Del_Duio]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jul 7 2012, 10:14 AM)

As far as the bass on studio albums? He has a lot in the old days where the bass was heavier. The Rick has a very distorted sound to it. He doesn't use it anymore.

Doesn't the distorted sound come more from the Sunn amps than the Ric?

[CygnusGal]

QUOTE (Sticklight @ Jul 10 2012, 11:09 PM)

That's a wonderful story! Here's Tom Sawyer's isolated bass track. It's simply the best J-bass tone I've ever heard. Thought you'd like to hear it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlGibhuobrM

Thanks, Sticklight. Beautiful tone! Like manna from heaven. Thank you, Geddy!

 

This is a total dork-fest. I love it! I can finally talk about Rush non-stop and everyone isn't telling me to shut up....yet

 

And to answer Del, distortion is driven mostly from the amp/effects in the bass world. Traditionally, bass is usually not distorted with effect. It can get rather muddy and flabby. I have heard some great use of light reverb and a slight tremolo, I've heard gating and flanging, and I've heard a really cool "fuzz" bass and all-sorts of other bizarre stuff (check out Rage Against The Machine, George Clinton, Me'Shell Ndegocello). Effects are typically used sparingly in the bass world. Typical bass knobs would be volume, tone, front/back pickup sweep (back being meatier, front being crisper).

 

if I could make the sound of the end MalNar sliding note in this post, I would...

[jacklifeson]

QUOTE (CygnusGal @ Jul 8 2012, 07:59 PM)

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 8 2012, 07:37 PM) <snip> I will always wonder why he's never gone back to the Ric, though. That sound is so unique. The Fenders don't sound bad, but they don't have the voice of a Rickenbacker...anyone know the story behind why he left them behind? I heard him say that the double-neck is heavy, but after watching him play the Rick on the Classic Album (2112/MP), I realized that the single neck is not much larger than the Fender Jazz...? I don't know for sure, but can speculate...   Fender Precision and/or Jazz bass with an Ampeg SVT 350 head is the gold standard for bass players (this bass player, at least). P- bass is heavy and not very ergonomic (like playing a brick) but it sounds really, really good. P- bass has a C shaped neck so you have to work harder (i.e. stretch more) and square corners and no cut aways make it heavy to hold for a few hours. A J- bass has a D shaped neck. J- bass are lighter (cut away at back to sit more comfortably and at the top front so its easier on the forearm with rounded edges reduce weight making it easier to carry around for a few hours) and the D- shaped neck makes for a lighter, faster touch from my experience.   Rics are heavy and fussy, even in their single neck incarnations. Stereo output with a trebley sound and they are very distinct (Chris Squire, Roger Glover, for example). Dual truss rods in the neck makes them unstable (imo). When they are on, they play and sound like nothing else. When they're out, they're out by a mile and sound weird with terrible intonation.   J- bass is rock solid, smooth to play and has a consistent tone. J- bass will never let you down and 100 years from now, I would bet that the P- / J- basses continue to define the low-end gold standard.   I'm curious (off-topic) where amplification is heading since the tube-based SVT350 and the stack it drove is now replaced by a Sans amp, a light-weight yet heavy sounding "bar", digital shaping or just straight into the board.   Just my opinions, and I have gazillions... Not to zero in on one of your minute details...but, SVT350 is your holy grail of amps? Sure you dont mean SVT CL or VR? Isnt the SVT350 a solid state lower budget amp made to look like a SVT?   And, I even though I do like Ps and Js (I had the Geddy bass but traded it for my first Ric) I couldnt disagree more on the Ric comment. Two truss rods MAKE it stable. I have two Rics, and despite what alot of people say, you dont just take it out of the case and instantly sound like Geddy or Squire. I know, I expected that when i first got one and was sad when it didnt. Not far off from a Jazz IMO...just listen to the isolated Moving Pictures bass tracks and see how close they sound (yeah sure you can tell a little difference in the isolated tracks AFTER you read or watch an interview with Geddy telling you which is which)   Oh and the first thing I thought when my speakers in my new car almost exploded listening to HF was "taurus pedals".