How do we not compare New Rush to Classic Rush?

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (Tony R @ May 13 2012, 11:57 AM)

QUOTE (losingit2k @ May 13 2012, 05:54 PM) QUOTE (Tony R @ May 13 2012, 11:44 AM) You are wasting your time Goober. Most fanboys are thicker than a plate of whale sandwiches. Look you two legged freak! I'm far from being a fanboi! I wasted to found of Vapor Trails. I truly dislike Animate. There are several songs on Snake and Arrows as in most the of albums post Power Windows that I dislike. I just think that the last two albums are moves in the right direction. And if that's being a fanboi than , I guess I'm a fan boi!     Are Whale Sandwishes real. Or is that a just a reference of You between to thin people? There's a coherent sentence in there somewhere but I'll be buggered if I can find it! Sorry (I wasn't too found of Vapor Trails) It has been corrected!     I probably was thinking I'm wasting my time here!

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (Gilbertk @ May 13 2012, 12:04 PM)

Rushgoober! I'm impressed!!!! You asked a question and DIDN'T include a poll!!!!

Come on GilbertK, You know you like the Poles!

 

[SlyJeff]

It's interesting you make that comparison between HF and Xanadu. When I listen to both, HF sounds more daring and interesting to me, though I classify both as merely "good" in overall Rush rankings.

 

I know I'm kind of alone on this, but to me Xanadu is a decent song where they did every aspect of what was done in that song better elsewhere.

 

But I really do like new Rush a lot and think it's as good as the classic stuff. If you took VT (and Feedback if you were inclined to include it) out of the lineup, I'd hold the last four albums up as roughly equal to almost any four album run in the history of the band (except maybe Hemispheres-Signals during which the band just really was in "the zone", though even that run I would say is only slightly better than any other 4 album run).

 

I do admit, I like heavier music in general more than lighter music, though S&A was pretty light and I thought it was a great album.

 

Different tastes for different folks. I still think they are firing on all cylinders and making great music.

 

As an aside, for MOST bands I've always been about "make the music I want to hear, not what you want to play", but with Rush it's a but different for me because you can hear the joy in how they express themselves (or at least I feel it do) and I'd rather hear that more than anything else.

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (HemispheresserehpsimeH @ May 13 2012, 12:07 PM)

QUOTE (Tony R @ May 13 2012, 11:44 AM) You are wasting your time Goober. Most fanboys are thicker than a plate of whale sandwiches. Unfortunately, this just shows how thick you are. Goobs brings up a pretty good discussion and of course someone has to bring up "fanboys" on the first page. Nice contribution, though   Anyways, I think goobs brings up a good point here. I mean, it all depends on one person's perspective, but I know that even as a newer Rush fan, I still compare their newer material to their older material. I still wish to hear that spark that brought upon songs like Natural Science or Something For Nothing.   I think a lot of people are less objective than they think they are. I mean, people exploded when the Far Cry sample had that F#sus or "Hemispheres" chord attached at the end. I can't single anyone out specifically, so I apologize if I group people into these kinds of categories, but people also erupted when it was known that Alex brought out the double neck again for one of the new songs.   There's no doubt that people want to hear that spark again, but can still accept the new tunes as good tunes because it is a band like Rush. And again, as much as I love the three new tunes so far on CA, I still want to hear something on the forthcoming album that really makes me jaw drop like the middle section in Marathon or gives me chills like the ending of Hemispheres.   So for me, a newer Rush fan, I find it impossible not to compare new Rush to old Rush because I do want to hear that kind of songwriting again. However, I still very much appreciate the newer songs that they're writing and can still find a ton of enjoyment in them. Just because I'm comparing them doesn't mean I don't like new Rush or anything. It's hard to describe, because I love both old and new Rush, but I want to be able to put CA in my stereo just as much as I put in Hemispheres or Power Windows.   So yes, I compare even though I love both eras. It's impossible for me not to because classic Rush is classic for a reason. I mean, how many people were up in arms after CA's tracktimes were leaked and there was no 10+ minute song? People want to cling to anything that may showcase a tinge of old school Rush. It's just the way we are as Rush fans. Maybe I'm not speaking for everyone, but a lot of people wanted to see a 10+ minute song and that's not just something they pulled out of the air. You have many good points, and much of it captures my feelings for these new songs. However, lets truly examine these 10+ minutes songs we (I included) are so found of. The only true 10+ minute song are Hemispheres, Cygnus X-1, and Natural Science which holds three distinctive parts. Xanadu and The Camera Eye are basically the same 5 minute songs played twice with different lyrics and 2112 is basically a collection of smaller songs strung together. So lets not get so out of touch! They are just compressing the 10+ minute songs into, well 7+ now!

[RushIslander]

For the love of Rush....Man, the disdain for the new material seems quite forced by the haters here....premeditated for sure. No matter what they'd put out, the reaction is pre~programed by some of you miserable drones.

 

It is one thing to be critical of musical integrity, but in the end it is all subjective opinion. Headlong Flight to me is a definite ROCKER and exciting to me...that is just my opinion. If you don't like it, that's fine; but judging others as unworthy because you don't agree is excruciatingly BORING to read on these boards, not to mention CP. Please, get over yourselves.

 

And guess what I got in the mail yesterday....my ticket to RUSH: Clockwork Angels Tour @ Barclays Center in Brooklyn, N.Y.!!!!!!!!

 

 

[CantStopThinkingBig]

Classic Rush = positive, upbeat lyrics

 

New Rush = I hate God/religion/Christians, the world sucks

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (CantStopThinkingBig @ May 13 2012, 12:49 PM)

Classic Rush = positive, upbeat lyrics New Rush = I hate God/religion/Christians, the world sucks

Yet your Avatar Name comes from One of those New RUSH songs!

 

How Ironic? Contradicting Even!

 

 

I think you miss the whole point of the concept. It's about a positive, yet Naive man in a less than positive world.

 

Edited May 13, 2012 by losingit2k

[snowdog212]

By Height

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ May 13 2012, 10:18 AM)

It's interesting you make that comparison between HF and Xanadu. When I listen to both, HF sounds more daring and interesting to me, though I classify both as merely "good" in overall Rush rankings.

 

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ May 13 2012, 10:18 AM)

I know I'm kind of alone on this, but to me Xanadu is a decent song where they did every aspect of what was done in that song better elsewhere.

I agree! You ARE alone on that!

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 13 2012, 01:15 PM)

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ May 13 2012, 10:18 AM) It's interesting you make that comparison between HF and Xanadu. When I listen to both, HF sounds more daring and interesting to me, though I classify both as merely "good" in overall Rush rankings.   QUOTE (SlyJeff @ May 13 2012, 10:18 AM) I know I'm kind of alone on this, but to me Xanadu is a decent song where they did every aspect of what was done in that song better elsewhere. I agree! You ARE alone on that!

[CantStopThinkingBig]

QUOTE (losingit2k @ May 13 2012, 12:55 PM)

QUOTE (CantStopThinkingBig @ May 13 2012, 12:49 PM) Classic Rush = positive, upbeat lyrics New Rush = I hate God/religion/Christians, the world sucks Yet your Avatar Name comes from One of those New RUSH songs!   How Ironic? Contradicting Even!     I think you miss the whole point of the concept. It's about a positive, yet Naive man in a less than positive world.   lol true, with "New Rush" I choose to focus on the music rather than the lyrics

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (CantStopThinkingBig @ May 13 2012, 01:21 PM)

QUOTE (losingit2k @ May 13 2012, 12:55 PM) QUOTE (CantStopThinkingBig @ May 13 2012, 12:49 PM) Classic Rush = positive, upbeat lyrics New Rush = I hate God/religion/Christians, the world sucks Yet your Avatar Name comes from One of those New RUSH songs!   How Ironic? Contradicting Even!     I think you miss the whole point of the concept. It's about a positive, yet Naive man in a less than positive world.   lol true, with "New Rush" I choose to focus on the music rather than the lyrics   Can't Stop Thinking Big! : Positive   Losing It: Negative!   As do I (Focus on the Music)!

Edited May 13, 2012 by losingit2k

[SlyJeff]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 13 2012, 01:15 PM)

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ May 13 2012, 10:18 AM) It's interesting you make that comparison between HF and Xanadu. When I listen to both, HF sounds more daring and interesting to me, though I classify both as merely "good" in overall Rush rankings.   QUOTE (SlyJeff @ May 13 2012, 10:18 AM) I know I'm kind of alone on this, but to me Xanadu is a decent song where they did every aspect of what was done in that song better elsewhere. I agree! You ARE alone on that! Haha, I know. Pretty sure we've had this conversation before. No accounting for taste, right?   It just so happens that when I first got into Rush, AFTK was the last classic Rush album I got. By that time I'd already heard 2112, Hemispheres, LVS, and Jacob's ladder' all of which contian the elements that make up Xanadu. It had a kind of been there, done that feeling to it for me, and still does.   HF, OTOH, has a certain energy on it that is new and fresh for me (to be fair, it's the energetic sound from VT without making my ears bleed).

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (CantStopThinkingBig @ May 13 2012, 12:21 PM)

QUOTE (losingit2k @ May 13 2012, 12:55 PM) QUOTE (CantStopThinkingBig @ May 13 2012, 12:49 PM) Classic Rush = positive, upbeat lyrics New Rush = I hate God/religion/Christians, the world sucks Yet your Avatar Name comes from One of those New RUSH songs!   How Ironic? Contradicting Even!     I think you miss the whole point of the concept. It's about a positive, yet Naive man in a less than positive world.   lol true, with "New Rush" I choose to focus on the music rather than the lyrics focus on the shoehorning....

[SlyJeff]

QUOTE (CantStopThinkingBig @ May 13 2012, 12:49 PM)

Classic Rush = positive, upbeat lyrics New Rush = I hate God/religion/Christians, the world sucks

A lot of classic Rush is neither upbeat or positive, and Freewill is one do the most clear anti-faith songs in the Rush catalog.

 

I honestly don't think a lot has changed in terms of the message, except there's a lot less Rand inspired lyrics now

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (RushIslander @ May 13 2012, 10:30 AM)

For the love of Rush....Man, the disdain for the new material seems quite forced by the haters here....premeditated for sure. No matter what they'd put out, the reaction is pre~programed by some of you miserable drones.

First of all, who are you talking to? Or is it just general spew? If you're talking to me as the OP, then I don't recognize any of what you're talking about as having anything to do with me. Disdain forced and premeditated? Pre-programmed by miserable drones??? What are we, borg?

 

And if you are talking to me, did you read the part about me loving some of the songs on S&A, or did you just skim and see what you wanted to see?

 

QUOTE (RushIslander @ May 13 2012, 10:30 AM)

It is one thing to be critical of musical integrity, but in the end it is all subjective opinion... If you don't like it, that's fine; but judging others as unworthy because you don't agree is excruciatingly BORING to read on these boards, not to mention CP. Please, get over yourselves.

Maybe you're referring to someone else here, but I know I never judged anyone as unworthy because we don't agree. That's just ridiculous. Unless you're not referring to me, and if not, maybe you should address them specifically instead of just making sweeping remarks, but since you're throwing CP into the mix I'm assuming you're making broad generalizations based on your own dissatisfaction with whatever it is you've been reading lately.

 

At least you're not "judging others as unworthy because you don't agree" with them.

[LyndseyG]

QUOTE (HemispheresserehpsimeH @ May 13 2012, 06:07 PM)

Anyways, I think goobs brings up a good point here. I mean, it all depends on one person's perspective, but I know that even as a newer Rush fan, I still compare their newer material to their older material. I still wish to hear that spark that brought upon songs like Natural Science or Something For Nothing. I think a lot of people are less objective than they think they are. I mean, people exploded when the Far Cry sample had that F#sus or "Hemispheres" chord attached at the end. I can't single anyone out specifically, so I apologize if I group people into these kinds of categories, but people also erupted when it was known that Alex brought out the double neck again for one of the new songs. There's no doubt that people want to hear that spark again, but can still accept the new tunes as good tunes because it is a band like Rush. And again, as much as I love the three new tunes so far on CA, I still want to hear something on the forthcoming album that really makes me jaw drop like the middle section in Marathon or gives me chills like the ending of Hemispheres. So for me, a newer Rush fan, I find it impossible not to compare new Rush to old Rush because I do want to hear that kind of songwriting again. However, I still very much appreciate the newer songs that they're writing and can still find a ton of enjoyment in them. Just because I'm comparing them doesn't mean I don't like new Rush or anything. It's hard to describe, because I love both old and new Rush, but I want to be able to put CA in my stereo just as much as I put in Hemispheres or Power Windows. So yes, I compare even though I love both eras. It's impossible for me not to because classic Rush is classic for a reason. I mean, how many people were up in arms after CA's tracktimes were leaked and there was no 10+ minute song? People want to cling to anything that may showcase a tinge of old school Rush. It's just the way we are as Rush fans. Maybe I'm not speaking for everyone, but a lot of people wanted to see a 10+ minute song and that's not just something they pulled out of the air.

I agree with you on this. I'm fairly new to Rush myself (3/4 years) and CA will be the first album to be released whilst I'm a fan.

 

When I first got into them I had MP, Presto, RTB, COS, their self titled, Signals, HYF, PoW, PeW plus ASOH, ATWAS and ESL. That's nearly all their early music. After that I invested in all the albums that were missing and their new stuff. Despite the songs that I'm not into I love both the old and new. There's none of this "Old Rush good, new Rush bad" business for me. Having said that, it doesn't mean I don't compare their old to their new, of course I have, but I still love it all equally.

 

Rushgoober, you asked if HF was interesting. My answer to that is to me YES, most definately. I was grinning from ear to ear with tears in my eyes when RS released it.

 

As for track lengths, I was more surprised by BU2B2 coming in at 1:30 minutes! Is that the shortest they've ever done? Or does Didacts And Narpets beat it?!

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (micgtr71 @ May 13 2012, 10:31 AM)

I'm not sure how old you are, but at 41 (my age), I find that I compare because of my age and where I am and was relative to the music coming out. The first "new" Rush I heard was Signals and shortly thereafter I heard the older music. With each release that comes out, I have a memory attached. From junior high to high school to college and then adulthood. The time between T4E and VT found me getting married and having a child. S&A found me taking my son to his first Rush show. Maybe I don't get excited about new music like I used to. I like all of the Rush albums for certain reasons and there are some that I like better than others. PoW transports me back to the fall of high school. Signals takes me back to my room in 5th grade. ASOH takes me back to Friday night rides with my then girlfriend. Lots of memories. Easy to compare. All good...some better than others. Hope this helps. Think I am going to have my own Time Machine today. Thanks for the memory lane trip Rushgoober.

 

It's the same way for me. The first album I heard was Power Windows, on vinyl, so it holds a special place for me. The album cover especially brings me back to when I was 15, in my friends house . The new stuff just doesn't have that type of nostalgia, obviously.

[CrossedSignals]

Haven't read the whole thread.... just throwing my two cents into the ring and then making a run for it. (It's a madhouse in here!)

 

I love Rush, so it's impossible to not compare their albums/time periods to some extent. However, the only thing that ultimately matters to me is whether I like a song in and of itself. It seems like some people have preconceived paradigms or standards as to what a piece of music MUST have.... it's gotta be heavy, or have guitars, or have a solo, or not be in verse/chorus form, or be prog, or it can't have too many overdubs, or blah blah blah. Certainly there are certain elements I enjoy and prefer, but nothing is a deal-maker or breaker. I enjoy some prog rock, some metal, some indie rock, some reggae, some dubstep, some house.... I don't feel locked into any particular genre or style or time period. If a song works, then it works. Comparison can be interesting, but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of a particular piece of music.

[RushIslander]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 13 2012, 01:30 PM)

QUOTE (RushIslander @ May 13 2012, 10:30 AM) For the love of Rush....Man, the disdain for the new material seems quite forced by the haters here....premeditated for sure. No matter what they'd put out, the reaction is pre~programed by some of you miserable drones. First of all, who are you talking to? Or is it just general spew? If you're talking to me as the OP, then I don't recognize any of what you're talking about as having anything to do with me. Disdain forced and premeditated? Pre-programmed by miserable drones??? What are we, borg?   And if you are talking to me, did you read the part about me loving some of the songs on S&A, or did you just skim and see what you wanted to see?   QUOTE (RushIslander @ May 13 2012, 10:30 AM) It is one thing to be critical of musical integrity, but in the end it is all subjective opinion... If you don't like it, that's fine; but judging others as unworthy because you don't agree is excruciatingly BORING to read on these boards, not to mention CP. Please, get over yourselves. Maybe you're referring to someone else here, but I know I never judged anyone as unworthy because we don't agree. That's just ridiculous. Unless you're not referring to me, and if not, maybe you should address them specifically instead of just making sweeping remarks, but since you're throwing CP into the mix I'm assuming you're making broad generalizations based on your own dissatisfaction with whatever it is you've been reading lately.   At least you're not "judging others as unworthy because you don't agree" with them. Whatever, goobs. I don't post here much, but I read here every day. Since HF was released there has been nostalgic comparisons to other Rush material that, IMO, cloud the judgement of the song on its own...see thread title above.   Sure, I used a broad~brush approach in describing the "haters"....but it is all the same BS.   Here's a comparison for ya'...as I posted in another thread: I haven't been more pumped for a NEW Rush tune since "The Analog Kid" as HF ROCKS my socks~off unlike any release since then!   How's that?

[Gedneil Alpeart]

I personally feel that Rush's creative peak was between 1976-1987, 2112-HYF. That is my favorite Rush era in all musical and lyrical domains. Comparing past and present by the same artist is inevitable and to me part of human nature. It's just what we do.

 

I still like a lot of their new material, but to me, not as good as their earlier work. In fact, the music of SA has not aged well for me. I find it too plodding now. But the new songs from CA have the electricity and spark back in my opinion and I have not been this excited for a new Rush album in ages!

 

This is just how I feel and if anyone disagrees, Im certainly not going to think they are wrong or judge them or call them names like some people in here do. I really dont get the name calling and insults....it's only rock music, right? Name callers, get over yourselves and try to act mature for once.

 

Evaluating the quality of music is not like measuring height, weight, length, or anything quantitative. It's a matter of taste and preference....how can anyone objectively measure what is better?

 

Im so glad my views are not extreme like some others, and Im certainly glad I am respectful of others' opinions, except for those who disrespect and insult mine.

 

Good topic of discussion, Goobs. Keep rocking!

Edited May 13, 2012 by Gedneil Alpeart

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 13 2012, 11:44 AM)

Haven't read the whole thread.... just throwing my two cents into the ring and then making a run for it. (It's a madhouse in here!) I love Rush, so it's impossible to not compare their albums/time periods to some extent. However, the only thing that ultimately matters to me is whether I like a song in and of itself. It seems like some people have preconceived paradigms or standards as to what a piece of music MUST have.... it's gotta be heavy, or have guitars, or have a solo, or not be in verse/chorus form, or be prog, or it can't have too many overdubs, or blah blah blah. Certainly there are certain elements I enjoy and prefer, but nothing is a deal-maker or breaker. I enjoy some prog rock, some metal, some indie rock, some reggae, some dubstep, some house.... I don't feel locked into any particular genre or style or time period. If a song works, then it works. Comparison can be interesting, but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of a particular piece of music.

 

Ultimately it comes down to that - is this song (whatever song that may be) awesome or isn't it? While I do have my list of qualities that make up my favorite Rush songs, a song can be awesome even if it has none or almost none of those qualities. I love Far Cry even without a real guitar solo. I love Hope even though it's an acoustic solo guitar song, etc.

 

Given that this is a band with such a history, however, it's natural to compare. And what do you do if a song so obviously pales dramatically in comparison to their great works? I guess you enjoy it for what it is, but for me anyway, it's hard to entirely forget that what I'm listening to is far less than what I think they're capable of.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 13 2012, 11:54 AM)

Good topic of discussion, Goobs. Keep rocking!

 

[CrossedSignals]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 13 2012, 03:21 PM)

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 13 2012, 11:44 AM) Haven't read the whole thread.... just throwing my two cents into the ring and then making a run for it. (It's a madhouse in here!) I love Rush, so it's impossible to not compare their albums/time periods to some extent. However, the only thing that ultimately matters to me is whether I like a song in and of itself. It seems like some people have preconceived paradigms or standards as to what a piece of music MUST have.... it's gotta be heavy, or have guitars, or have a solo, or not be in verse/chorus form, or be prog, or it can't have too many overdubs, or blah blah blah. Certainly there are certain elements I enjoy and prefer, but nothing is a deal-maker or breaker. I enjoy some prog rock, some metal, some indie rock, some reggae, some dubstep, some house.... I don't feel locked into any particular genre or style or time period. If a song works, then it works. Comparison can be interesting, but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of a particular piece of music.   Ultimately it comes down to that - is this song (whatever song that may be) awesome or isn't it? While I do have my list of qualities that make up my favorite Rush songs, a song can be awesome even if it has none or almost none of those qualities. I love Far Cry even without a real guitar solo. I love Hope even though it's an acoustic solo guitar song, etc.   Given that this is a band with such a history, however, it's natural to compare. And what do you do if a song so obviously pales dramatically in comparison to their great works? I guess you enjoy it for what it is, but for me anyway, it's hard to entirely forget that what I'm listening to is far less than what I think they're capable of. I agree.... a band like Rush with such a long and rich history is a special case. I can also imagine that your average long-time fan has a different experience listening to new material than someone like me who's relatively new to the party and hasn't lived through the release of many Rush albums (I became a fan about a year before S&A dropped).   It's definitely a complex issue. It's easy for me to say that you gotta judge a song on its own merits, but there are other factors in play, especially when you're a devoted fan.

[Chicken hawk]

There is absolutely no critisizing any Rush music..new or old...come on you Fans !