Geddy's voice sounds just fine!

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 27 2011, 12:16 PM)

Good or Bad, this road is almost over. Enjoy while you can

Exactly.

 

This is the way I think as well. Whether we like it or not, the road ahead is much shorter than the one behind for the boys.

 

Listen, does Ged sound worse than before? I guess it seems subjective based on who you ask.

 

BUT...the biggest thing I noticed above everything else on the TM video is how much FUN the guys seem to be having. Seriously. That's what I loved about TM. I mean...look at Neil!

 

That part coming out of the awesomely, never-tiring, ridiculous bridge/solo part on Freewill...Neil makes that goofy smiley face at Ged & Alex. One of my favourite parts of the concert. His interactions with Alex during the first verses of Subdivisions are great as well.

 

I mean, for everyone who craps on Neil's personality and whatnot; he shows that he is not only professional and spot-on during the concert...but he also seems to be enjoying himself alot more these days!

 

It's all great IMO.

[garyg7133]

All of Geddy's vocal performances over the past 15 years or so have had undeniable differences. His voice has mellowed a lot which suits their newer music. My first impression of TM live ws "wow, there are a lot of rough spots". My wife was less forgiving and said " Jesus, what happened to him?". Since I started listening to TM live I've gotten over it. As I remember it, he had a couple of shrill spots during the Allentown PA show and @ MSG as well. Doesn't bother me and it sure as hell isn't going to stop me from seeing them. Frankly, I'm amazed he can do it at all considering how many shows were crammed into this tour. Kinda makes me wonder if they were doing 2 shows a week rather than 3-4 if he would have fared a little better. As for the comparisons with Waters, Really? It is apples vs. hand grenades. Theyr'e not even in the same vocal range by far. One guy is hitting notes that a lot of female singers can't hit and the other is just kinda serenading you to sleep.....kida like listening to Bob Ross....

[drgrendel]

"These are quantifiable statements and are not subjective. You can say he's better now than ever, and that's fine. That's a valid opinion. But the fact is that he is different now."

 

Ok...I'll bite...quantify that statement with something other than "the fact is he is different now." I want to see the data... Really enjoy reading posts from those who write big but cannot back any of it up...QUANTIFY IT!

 

 

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 11:59 AM)

"These are quantifiable statements and are not subjective. You can say he's better now than ever, and that's fine. That's a valid opinion. But the fact is that he is different now." Ok...I'll bite...quantify that statement with something other than "the fact is he is different now." I want to see the data... Really enjoy reading posts from those who write big but cannot back any of it up...QUANTIFY IT!

You want someone to load up Adobe Audition and compare the vocals? That can be done, you know. It's beyond my personal skillset, but there are those that can isolate the vocals and compare them. If you're saying it can't be done, then you're just a fool - and I really enjoy reading posts from those who challenge others but don't have any idea what they're talking about.

 

So yes, in other words, the differences in the vocal performances are QUANTI-FKING-FIABLE.

 

 

 

Also - are you seriously suggesting that he's NOT any different now? Because that would be a mighty interesting stance to take.

[drgrendel]

Yup - he is different now. I want to see you back up your quantifiable claim is all. Can you do it or not? Sort of akin to a prosecutor claiming that he/she can prove the guilt of the accused then when called upon to provide evidence, they sheepishly admit that they would do so if the could.

 

Where are the numbers?

Edited November 29, 2011 by drgrendel

[StellarJetman]

Edited November 29, 2011 by StellarJetman

[danielmclark]

[drgrendel]

I know that his voice is different and I agree that there has been a change over the years.What i want to know is the the degree of quantifiable difference. Is that so much to ask of someone who claimed that there was a quantifiable difference? It is akin to someone who states that there is a quantifiable difference between those who listen to country music and those who listen to heavy metal mucic in relation to violence. Ok...what is the difference and is the difference meaningful?

 

One shoe is left out there and I wish to know what the quantifiable difference is. Any stat person would wish to know...

 

If you cannot produce this...then suggest who might be able quantify this for me. However, please do not expect me to accept your word for this. As the joke goes, "How do people in NY say trust me?"

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 06:21 PM)

I know that his voice is different and I agree that there has been a change over the years.What i want to know is the the degree of quantifiable difference. Is that so much to ask of someone who claimed that there was a quantifiable difference? It is akin to someone who states that there is a quantifiable difference between those who listen to country music and those who listen to heavy metal mucic in relation to violence. Ok...what is the difference and is the difference meaningful? One shoe is left out there and I wish to know what the quantifiable difference is. Any stat person would wish to know... If you cannot produce this...then suggest who might be able quantify this for me. However, please do not expect me to accept your word for this. As the joke goes, "How do people in NY say trust me?"

You wouldn't know what to do with comparison waveforms anyway, so anyone with the skills to isolate the vocals on the commercial CDs would be wasting his time with you anyway.

 

Let me ask you something. Have you ever flown around the world? How do you know it's round? Have you ever been to the bottom of an ocean? How do you know it's dark down there? See, because you've taken people's words for a *lot* of things in your life. But you figured you'd come in here and dump all over me for something that you *thought* you could get away with. You can't. You've lost this challenge. Anyone with half a brain can hear that Geddy's voice is different than it used to be and audio processing software is able to quantify the differences because that's what audio processing software does.

 

The only way this conversation could get more retarded is if you told me you believe in God, Mr. "Show Me The Numbers"

 

Go back and read StellarJetman's response again. He sums this up perfectly.

[GeddysMullet]

I can't believe this stupid argument is still going on. Of course Geddy's voice is different than it used to be, anyone with half an ear can hear that. He cannot sing the way he used to be able to sing. That is a fact. What isn't a fact is that his being unable to sing the way he used to sing automatically means that he is no longer a good singer.

 

People who loved the way Geddy sang 30 years ago might not particularly care for the way he sings now and might wish that he could still sing that way, but that doesn't mean that he is no longer a good singer. He sounds DIFFERENT than he used to, but "different" does NOT automatically equate to "bad" or "worse."

 

If a person doesn't care for the way that Geddy sings now, that's fair enough, but there's a world of difference between "I don't care for the way Geddy sings now" and "Geddy can't sing anymore." Clearly, there are many people who don't like the way that Geddy sings now, and just as clearly, there are many people who do. There is no way to prove or to quantify which of these views is right and which is wrong, because hey guess what...NEITHER is!

 

Why is this so difficult to understand?

[1 of the 7]

I think the real crux of the matter these days is whether one wants to spend their time debating with those who are critical of the changes going on in the band, or celebrate whatever they enjoyed about the band and/or still do. If you're in the latter camp, there are other places you're better served (sorry). I'm quickly realizing I fall into the latter category; I'm too conflict-averse for a lot of what's going on on this board (and not just the stuff about Rush; it's all getting way too personal). For me, the Facebook Rush groups have a lot more of my kind of vibe. I'm thinking that when I get busy with a second job this month and am forced to spend less time here, it may not be a bad thing. I'd think about pulling up stakes entirely if I didn't have a decent amount of time and interaction built up here.

 

It's tough for me as a new fan. I want to find others who get what I fell in love with a year and three months ago, but its proving more difficult than I thought. I never thought I'd have to come in and justify myself to the band's own fans.

Edited November 30, 2011 by 1 of the 7

[drgrendel]

I happen to like his vocals better now than 30 years ago. As one observer put it, his voice is more mature, thus has changed. I am happy for that since progress and dealing with what life throws at you is a good thing. I personallly find it difficult to listen to earlier Rush efforts because I do prefer vocal style now.

 

Regarding the poster who stated that I would not know what to do with the information anyway, please do not judge my abilities based upon your limitations.

 

I deal with data and statistics as part of my profession. I am curious to know what the data would look like is all. Curiousity man - plain and simple.

Edited November 30, 2011 by drgrendel

[StellarJetman]

Edited November 30, 2011 by StellarJetman

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 09:02 PM)

Regarding the poster who stated that I would not know what to do with the information anyway, please do not judge my abilities based upon your limitations.

I'm not. I'm judging your abilities according to what you've said in this thread. Earlier, you refused to believe that vocals are able to be compared and quantified. What on earth would make me think you would have any idea what to do with comparison waveforms?

 

As for your "plain and simple curiosity" - someone who is genuinely curious about something generally doesn't begin the quest for knowledge by insulting someone and then arguing with him when the answer comes back (and from an additional source, no less).

 

You should probably give up now.

[Enemy Within 77]

You two need to just blow each other and get it over with! This is f***ing ridiculous.

[Lerxster]

QUOTE (1 of the 7 @ Nov 29 2011, 10:00 PM)

I think the real crux of the matter these days is whether one wants to spend their time debating with those who are critical of the changes going on in the band, or celebrate whatever they enjoyed about the band and/or still do. If you're in the latter camp, there are other places you're better served (sorry). I'm quickly realizing I fall into the latter category; I'm too conflict-averse for a lot of what's going on on this board (and not just the stuff about Rush; it's all getting way too personal). For me, the Facebook Rush groups have a lot more of my kind of vibe. I'm thinking that when I get busy with a second job this month and am forced to spend less time here, it may not be a bad thing. I'd think about pulling up stakes entirely if I didn't have a decent amount of time and interaction built up here. It's tough for me as a new fan. I want to find others who get what I fell in love with a year and three months ago, but its proving more difficult than I thought. I never thought I'd have to come in and justify myself to the band's own fans.

What an articulate heartfelt post.

 

Those who continually criticize may find it mostly stimulating, but I find it mostly exhausting. And increasingly boring. But, maybe those critics would find a predominantly Rush-positive board dull, so there's a need to "mix it up".

 

Rush is my favorite active band. As a fan of 30 years, I find less and less to be critical of and more reasons to be appreciative of what they've done and continue to do. I've found new appreciation over the years for the few songs I didn't care for, or downright disliked. (Well, maybe except Virtuality ) For me, Rush albums run the gamut of pretty good to downright brilliant. Neil is a great drummer, lyricist and (from what I deduce) person. Geddy can still sing good live. I'm a happy Rush fan

 

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Nov 30 2011, 08:24 AM)

Those who continually criticize may find it mostly stimulating, but I find it mostly exhausting. And increasingly boring. But, maybe those critics would find a predominantly Rush-positive board dull, so there's a need to "mix it up".

I don't continually criticize personally, but I'm not all sunshine & roses, either. I've done that already. I'm going on 21 years as a Rush fan and for the first 16 or 17, I was the 100% positive omg-they-are-gods kind of fan.

 

Over the past few years, I've come to realize that they're not gods, that they are extraordinarily talented human beings. They're still my favorite band by a million miles, but my perspective has changed.

 

Rush is like a wife (or husband) in a successful marriage. At the beginning, it's bliss and every little thing she does is magic (to borrow a phrase). Everyone is on their best behavior and flaws are either overlooked or not noticed at all. As the relationship progresses, people get more comfortable with each other, and after a few years, you realize that the person has flaws and things you don't like - but if your marriage is a solid one, none of that stuff matters.

 

You start to see your wife (or husband, or favorite band) for who they are, warts and all. And you love them anyway. If the marriage (or band/fan relationship) is solid, then talking about your flaws isn't seen as an attack or a rant or a complaint. It's just something you talk about because that's how you grow. It's how you experience each other.

 

There are lines you don't cross, of course. You don't throw around insults. You don't get mean. But just because a fan says that Geddy's voice isn't what it used to be, or that Neil's lyrics on any given album are weak, or that Alex's playing is uninspired on some songs... doesn't mean the fan loves them any less.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you're a fan in the early stages of bliss, maybe threads where people are talking on a higher level about the band aren't your cup of tea. But NEVER assume that someone who criticizes the band is automatically less of a fan.

 

Edited November 30, 2011 by danielmclark

[drgrendel]

Good post on the bliss stuff.

 

Been a fan since Hemispheres and still prefer the "newer" (RTB on up) Geddy voice.

 

Another board member was kind enough to pass along the information I needed to understand the quantitative stuff. Thanks for your help.

Edited November 30, 2011 by drgrendel

[JTFL]

I Love Rush. Been listening to them for 30 yrs. But I have to admit the strain I feel and hear in G's singing. I thought to myself after the last show, 10/03/10, that I would not mind if they put any effect on the vocals to make it easier on him. He shouldnt have to strain and if anything like that would help prolong the entire Rush career for years to come then I'd be happy with that. Either way I'm a fan for life.

[rushfanNlv]

Whi is the "Geddy" person everyone keeps talking about?

 

I agree with Metaldad.

[1 of the 7]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Nov 30 2011, 10:33 AM)

So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you're a fan in the early stages of bliss, maybe threads where people are talking on a higher level about the band aren't your cup of tea.

So, in other words, if I never change my blissful opinions, I'm talking on a lower level from you. Thank you for coming right out and saying that.

 

In my opinion, my feelings about the band have more to do with my personality than they do with the length of time I've been a fan. I don't think my feelings or personality is going to change, but I'll check back in 20 years. If it has, I'll look forward to having reached your level and maybe we can chat.

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (1 of the 7 @ Nov 30 2011, 02:40 PM)

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Nov 30 2011, 10:33 AM) So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you're a fan in the early stages of bliss, maybe threads where people are talking on a higher level about the band aren't your cup of tea. So, in other words, if I never change my blissful opinions, I'm talking on a lower level from you. Thank you for coming right out and saying that.   In my opinion, my feelings about the band have more to do with my personality than they do with the length of time I've been a fan. I don't think my feelings or personality is going to change, but I'll check back in 20 years. If it has, I'll look forward to having reached your level and maybe we can chat. If you want to take that to a literal extreme, so be it.

[GeddysMullet]

QUOTE (1 of the 7 @ Nov 29 2011, 11:00 PM)

I think the real crux of the matter these days is whether one wants to spend their time debating with those who are critical of the changes going on in the band, or celebrate whatever they enjoyed about the band and/or still do. If you're in the latter camp, there are other places you're better served (sorry). I'm quickly realizing I fall into the latter category; I'm too conflict-averse for a lot of what's going on on this board (and not just the stuff about Rush; it's all getting way too personal). For me, the Facebook Rush groups have a lot more of my kind of vibe. I'm thinking that when I get busy with a second job this month and am forced to spend less time here, it may not be a bad thing. I'd think about pulling up stakes entirely if I didn't have a decent amount of time and interaction built up here. It's tough for me as a new fan. I want to find others who get what I fell in love with a year and three months ago, but its proving more difficult than I thought. I never thought I'd have to come in and justify myself to the band's own fans.

I'll miss you if you go!

 

At least come back for the Geddy thread

[Lerxster]

QUOTE (1 of the 7 @ Nov 30 2011, 03:40 PM)

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Nov 30 2011, 10:33 AM) So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you're a fan in the early stages of bliss, maybe threads where people are talking on a higher level about the band aren't your cup of tea. So, in other words, if I never change my blissful opinions, I'm talking on a lower level from you. Thank you for coming right out and saying that.   In my opinion, my feelings about the band have more to do with my personality than they do with the length of time I've been a fan. I don't think my feelings or personality is going to change, but I'll check back in 20 years. If it has, I'll look forward to having reached your level and maybe we can chat. Yes, personality! I was thinking that earlier. That's a huge component.   My feelings of bliss have only increased as the years go by. I'm not sure when it happened, but somewhere along the way I guess I became a fanboi. Doing what they do for as long as they have, as well as they have.. they are Gods. Rock Gods.

[WCFIELDS]