Drummers!

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (KirkDS @ Jul 27 2007, 09:47 AM)

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jul 27 2007, 08:13 AM) QUOTE (KirkDS @ Jul 27 2007, 08:10 AM) QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jul 26 2007, 07:31 PM) QUOTE (KirkDS @ Jul 24 2007, 03:04 PM) Guys - I'm in the market for some new drums and I'm having a very difficult time. I've played the same Pearl MLX kit since the mid-80's (all the harware, mounts, etc. are new and they look like a current kit...like new) and I never thought I'd be able to justify a new kit since my 15 minutes has come and gone, but suddenly I find myself gigging again and able to justify drums (in my warped mind anyway) again! I love Pearl drums. The thought of getting a high-end Masterworks kit built to my exact specifications is a dream, but those Yamaha Maple Customs are incredible as well. I have to say that I've played on about 12 DW kits recently and I'm not impressed in the least.  I keep thinking there must be something wrong with my ears because I'm supposed to like them, but so far I haven't come across a DW kit (even with me re-tuning) that sounds half-way decent.  I've played on some amazing Yamaha kits, but the problem is that nobody carries the high-end Pearl stuff.  Since I have high-end Pearl stuff, I know what to expect, but it would be nice to play on the newer stuff in the store. Oh well...  I guess I'm just looking for some opinions on current high-end drums from any of you with educated opinions Tascam - Please don't take my dissapointment with DW personally Really, that many DW's & nothing? Funny thing is, I have the smae problem for Yamaha's....The 12" toms have never tuned up well with the rest of any kit. Pearl's are ok for me. I wasn't as impressed with the higher end as the Session maple kits.... Tama sounded good as well but I couldn't stand any of the newer Ludwigs nor the Slingerlands or Sonors. i came in skeptical against DW as I only first knew of them as a hardware company (and a damn good one at that!) but Neil's choice for the Ludwigs lost my confidence in Neil's choices for kits. But I found that I could tune up any DW in a flash & every single person that heard them, commented on how beautiful they sounded.....Still, the Yam's were good, if you took out the 12" tom.... Man, this is the sort of thing I keep hearing from everyone that honestly knows what they're talking about...regarding the DWs. I'm not going to give up on them yet. Maybe I'll see if I can talk someone into letting me put some coated ambasadors on a couple of toms and just generally have my way with them for a little while. I'm pretty far down the Pearl path at this point and I'm pretty excited about it, but I want to make sure I have the correct opinion on some of these other drums. Yeah, I like the Tama and Yamaha stuff too, but can't really see myself playing those drums for some reason. It's weird...   I spent a lot of time researching stuff on www.massmusic.net last night...where you can special order Pearl drums and the shipping is free. Tons of options and possibilities regarding drum sizes, snares, hardware color, wood type/thickness, etc. I'm not sure the heads will be just the adjustment. The only other thing I can see is someone not being able to tune a drum. DW makes soooo easy with the True Pitch tension rods (33% more thread than any other brand). DW makes their drums with only 100% perfect maple & birch. The rest is sent down to PDP (who, in return, takes 95% perfect & better). They sell the rest of the maple to anyone else who wants to buy. Here' my issue with ALL other brands. There are 3 major rims made: triple flanged (which, by design, allows a drums to become that BIG FAT WET sound), wood (old style sound with a little bit of a focused sound), die cast (a VERY focused sound that makes your eyes blink when you do a rim shot on a snare!). First, toms should have that wet sound yet every major manufacturer puts die cast on the toms. (the reason is to prevent slippage of tension rods & keeps the drum in tune). YET, they seem to keep putting triple flanged on snares!! *ick* DW puts triple flanged on their toms due to the True Pitch tension rods. It's easier to tune & stays in tune much longer. They also match pitches for drums allowing a more in tune drumset. I like other brands as well but as soon as I started putting DW drums together & setting them up, tuning them, etc...I can't really look at other brands in the same fashion..... Thanks for that info. Really appreciate it. I guess it's true that at the end of the day, everyone is using top-notch maple, similar hardware, and similar heads, so it would seem that tuning would be the biggest factor. Tuning has never been one of my better talents, but I've always had good luck getting drums to sound nice.   There's a Guitar Center about 10 minutes from where I work, so I think I may head over there today during lunch and see if I can do some experimenting. sure...some things to consider: The drumhead (single ply vs. 2 ply)-coated vs clear (or versions of this). The rim/hoop will play a factor in sound quality (as mentioned above). The depth of the drum (the longer the drum is, the shorter the sustain). The thickness of the drum (6-8 ply is usual but a smaller barrel, a higher pitch...IE: if it is 7 ply/7mm, it will be a lower pitch than an 8 ply/8mm drum) Color may also come into play. See, as long as you do not have a wrap, color will play a role in the sound of your drums. A white or lighter color will reflect the light & be a brighter tone. A black or darker tone will get a darker more warmer tone (accepts all light & warms up the drums). All things to consider (especially buying a high end kit)...I own an older Tama high end kit (pics in earlier versions of this thread). It is 15 years old now & I still love it the day I bought it....However, it is a birch kit & I would like a maple kit (maple have those little nuances that always make drummers always go ) Tuning...hmmmm, well that kind of a sticky one for most as there really is a right way to tune but most drummers don't want to hear it. There are a dozen videos out on it. The simple plan for me, make sure the snare is tuned first, followed by the tom you are most likely going to associate the sound with (IE: 5 piece kit has the the highest tom as the next drum to go with. so & so forth). For tuning, I simply get a tone by tuning up every lug evenly (tedious as it is, I found this to really keep a close eye on the note I'm looking for). So, I get the note, then I tap the drum 1" away from each tension rod & then tuning them together much like a guitarist tunes a guitar by ear....oh, don't try a tuner, they don't work like that....to many frequencies that make the tuner go wild!) Lastly, the bass....this one is different for me: I turn all tension rods while pressing my finger in the center until all wrinkles are out. I then give the head multiple pushes to stretch the head out. This is an old school trick but I love the way the bass sound after doing this!!!!

[launchpad67a]

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jul 27 2007, 07:12 PM)

Color may also come into play. See, as long as you do not have a wrap, color will play a role in the sound of your drums. A white or lighter color will reflect the light & be a brighter tone. A black or darker tone will get a darker more warmer tone (accepts all light & warms up the drums).

Are you serious? You can't be serious about the color of a drum effects its tone.

I have never heard of this so mabey it's true, but I somehow doubt it.

[KirkDS]

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Jul 28 2007, 01:03 PM)

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jul 27 2007, 07:12 PM) Color may also come into play. See, as long as you do not have a wrap, color will play a role in the sound of your drums. A white or lighter color will reflect the light & be a brighter tone. A black or darker tone will get a darker more warmer tone (accepts all light & warms up the drums). Are you serious? You can't be serious about the color of a drum effects its tone. I have never heard of this so mabey it's true, but I somehow doubt it. Yeah, he had me then he lost me.   Finally found some DWs that sounded nice at GC. It was a set of the redwoods (I guess they're supposed to be rare?) that were up on the shelf...and they sounded amazing when the guy was nice enough to let me get them down and gack around on them a bit. The Pearl Reference drums on display sounded pretty decent as well, but still not as nice as your typical 4 or 6 ply maple kit from Pearl, Yamaha, etc. Not sure why they're trying to re-invent the wheel.   I think I'm going with my gut and I'll probably continue to be a Pearl drummer. I'll probably try to get as many drums in whatever color/options I choose as possible (as I can afford!) so I can mix and match depending on the type of gig. I've got a laid back r&b/jazzy thing tonight that I'll be using a 4-piece for and I wish I had a 20" kick for it.   Sucks when you're trying to do some Neil Peart tom fill and run out of drums half way into it!

Edited July 28, 2007 by KirkDS

[FredEJ]

I hear ya there. sorry to change the subject, just skip me if choose.... I fell in love with this 1963 Slingerland marching snare. It flows well with the Pearl kit, really, it does..deep and textured-- peace ...FredEJ

[MrHands]

Masterworks are sweet drums...you won't be disappointed. DW's are nice too, but I think they are thought of a little too much.

[slamthejam11]

I think Taye makes nice drums too...

[Rush!]

Hey guys,

 

I know Christmas is far away, but I'd really like to get a new drum set. I'm debating about getting an electronic set or sticking to an acoustic set. I'd like the electronic one only for the wide range of sounds of drums I can get and the fact that I can play it whenever and not bother people (i.e. at night, in the morning, etc.) But most of my friends use acoustic sets, and I've always enjoyed playing on it, so I guess I should stick to that?

 

Plus, the fact that electronic sets cost so much, my parents probably can't afford one...

 

But anyway, what would be a good brand company drum set I could get? I've thought about DW, Pearl, Mapex, Sonor, and a few others. Does it really matter? And I'd really like to get a 7-piece: snare, bass, 3 toms, and 2 floor toms. Any good recommendations or links?

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Jul 28 2007, 02:03 PM)

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jul 27 2007, 07:12 PM) Color may also come into play. See, as long as you do not have a wrap, color will play a role in the sound of your drums. A white or lighter color will reflect the light & be a brighter tone. A black or darker tone will get a darker more warmer tone (accepts all light & warms up the drums). Are you serious? You can't be serious about the color of a drum effects its tone. I have never heard of this so mabey it's true, but I somehow doubt it. Yup, ask someone that has a piano & why they are predominantly black. As far as I know, they only make 3 colors because of this: black, white, natural. I have a white kit, my kit has a higher pitch to it (something I was not aware of when I chose white). I haven't found a black kit (now this is not wraps....this is satin oil, laquer, etc...) that wasn't warmer in sound & darker in tone than a lighter kit. Something I picked up a long time regarding pianos & started to notice the same trends for drums. This isn't to say that you can't get around a brighter tone, that's fairly easy using tuning techniques & drumheads that are made for deeper tones.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (KirkDS @ Jul 28 2007, 05:06 PM)

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Jul 28 2007, 01:03 PM) QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jul 27 2007, 07:12 PM) Color may also come into play. See, as long as you do not have a wrap, color will play a role in the sound of your drums. A white or lighter color will reflect the light & be a brighter tone. A black or darker tone will get a darker more warmer tone (accepts all light & warms up the drums). Are you serious? You can't be serious about the color of a drum effects its tone. I have never heard of this so mabey it's true, but I somehow doubt it. Yeah, he had me then he lost me.   Finally found some DWs that sounded nice at GC. It was a set of the redwoods (I guess they're supposed to be rare?) that were up on the shelf...and they sounded amazing when the guy was nice enough to let me get them down and gack around on them a bit. The Pearl Reference drums on display sounded pretty decent as well, but still not as nice as your typical 4 or 6 ply maple kit from Pearl, Yamaha, etc. Not sure why they're trying to re-invent the wheel.   I think I'm going with my gut and I'll probably continue to be a Pearl drummer. I'll probably try to get as many drums in whatever color/options I choose as possible (as I can afford!) so I can mix and match depending on the type of gig. I've got a laid back r&b/jazzy thing tonight that I'll be using a 4-piece for and I wish I had a 20" kick for it.   Sucks when you're trying to do some Neil Peart tom fill and run out of drums half way into it! Sorry for color thing, If ya need to scrap that, keep it scrapped. Redwoods are part of the Exotic line (a veneer wrap on the outside of the drum, my favorite was Regal to Royal Blue Fade over Ice Birch-looked like water). I never like the Reference line. I did like the Session series, though. I won one working at GC. Had to sell for money not too long after that. But it sounded very decent. I was happy that I had a warmer deeper drumset!   Being a Pearl drummer is not a bad thing. I haven't a bias against them because of the 80's thing. Through the 90's, I still wasn't impressed until I worked at GC & heard the Session kits. The Master series sounded pretty decent. I have to make a big deal about the Session kits because of their price range (I think they are around $1300 for a 4 piece kit). Well, just checked Pearl on line...They don't make that line anymore. Bummer.....

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (MrHands @ Jul 29 2007, 01:56 PM)

Masterworks are sweet drums...you won't be disappointed. DW's are nice too, but I think they are thought of a little too much.

I guess my disagreement here is that they are thought of close. I thought the same way until I actually was tuning them up, listening to drums day after day. The Timbre Matching design that DW came up with in addition to the True Pitch tension rods really changed the way the drummers who play them think.

I don't how many drummers I sold another brand to & then a DW. The DW was the kit they turned to. As for the artists, some say that most of them asked to be endorsed by DW, not the other way around. Whether that is true, I'm not sure but I'd probably say think it's pretty close to true. Neil didn't change his kit for VT because he loved the kit he had so much even though DW was offered to make him a new one.

He gushed over the kit he used in Snakes & Arrows....Don't get me wrong, I still like other drum manufacturers just not as much as DW.

The last thing I came across with was customer service. No one else had gone through so much for their customers (first hand experience). They are the best at taking care of their customers.

I have only heard the major brands that GC sells (aside from a few used kits we came across or I heard through the years). I liked Ayotte kits but I didn't like the way they put on their tension rods....Slingerland, Ludwig, & Sonor have seemed overpriced & just not as good as the other manufacturers IMHO.

[thebernreuter]

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u255/thebernreuter/IMG_3689.jpg

 

Let's try this again.

 

Ludwig Rocker circa 1998. 12", 13", 16", 22". My rack toms are stuck in the bottoms of cymbal stands.

 

17" and 18" K Zildjian Dark Crash Thins, 14" Paragon hihats and 22" Paragon ride, 8" Paiste Signature splash, cheap cracked and bent crash as a china type.

 

3 Pearl cowbells and mount plus a small LP cowbell

 

6", 8", and 10" Remo Rototoms.

 

5.5x14" Arbiter AT snare, serial number 75.

[launchpad67a]

DT,

I believe you, but that just sounds crazy to me.

I can understand this if the drums were placed in the sun, side by side, then temperatures were taken. The darker drums would be warmer (obviously) and I'm sure that would effect their tone to some degree. But that's in the direct sun, not under stage lighting.

 

I would believe that a "painted" shell has a different tone than a "stained" shell. That would make more sense than the actual color having an impact on the tone.

 

That's very interesting though.

[MrHands]

QUOTE (Rush! @ Jul 29 2007, 08:53 PM)

Hey guys, I know Christmas is far away, but I'd really like to get a new drum set. I'm debating about getting an electronic set or sticking to an acoustic set. I'd like the electronic one only for the wide range of sounds of drums I can get and the fact that I can play it whenever and not bother people (i.e. at night, in the morning, etc.) But most of my friends use acoustic sets, and I've always enjoyed playing on it, so I guess I should stick to that? Plus, the fact that electronic sets cost so much, my parents probably can't afford one... But anyway, what would be a good brand company drum set I could get? I've thought about DW, Pearl, Mapex, Sonor, and a few others. Does it really matter? And I'd really like to get a 7-piece: snare, bass, 3 toms, and 2 floor toms. Any good recommendations or links?

Check out Tama Superstars. Good drums, great hardware & reasonably priced. That's a combination that's hard to beat.

[Rush!]

QUOTE (MrHands @ Jul 31 2007, 09:26 PM)

Check out Tama Superstars. Good drums, great hardware & reasonably priced. That's a combination that's hard to beat.

Thanks MrHands.

 

 

And I'm forgetting about the electronic drum sets. I can't afford them.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (MrHands @ Jul 31 2007, 09:26 PM)

QUOTE (Rush! @ Jul 29 2007, 08:53 PM) Hey guys, I know Christmas is far away, but I'd really like to get a new drum set. I'm debating about getting an electronic set or sticking to an acoustic set. I'd like the electronic one only for the wide range of sounds of drums I can get and the fact that I can play it whenever and not bother people (i.e. at night, in the morning, etc.) But most of my friends use acoustic sets, and I've always enjoyed playing on it, so I guess I should stick to that? Plus, the fact that electronic sets cost so much, my parents probably can't afford one... But anyway, what would be a good brand company drum set I could get? I've thought about DW, Pearl, Mapex, Sonor, and a few others. Does it really matter? And I'd really like to get a 7-piece: snare, bass, 3 toms, and 2 floor toms. Any good recommendations or links? Check out Tama Superstars. Good drums, great hardware & reasonably priced. That's a combination that's hard to beat. Superstars are an old name from Tama....Hybrid, I believe. They have a few inner plies of birch & the outer is basswood (a poor man's birch, if you will). It has the characteristics of a birch shell but I found the PDP birch & Gretsch Catalina (birch) were a bit of a better sound. Hardware, well, Tama's hardware really kicks butt against these guys.....     An electronic kit...hmmm, well, I have both an electronic & acoustic. I must say I play a lot differently behind an acoustic than an electronic but the electronic has kept me sane when I can't play my acoustic. Price-wise, I'd say that if you can afford an electronic, you can afford an acoustic. The main difference is what your situation to play them are. Then go from there.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (Rush! @ Jul 29 2007, 09:53 PM)

Hey guys, I know Christmas is far away, but I'd really like to get a new drum set. I'm debating about getting an electronic set or sticking to an acoustic set. I'd like the electronic one only for the wide range of sounds of drums I can get and the fact that I can play it whenever and not bother people (i.e. at night, in the morning, etc.) But most of my friends use acoustic sets, and I've always enjoyed playing on it, so I guess I should stick to that? Plus, the fact that electronic sets cost so much, my parents probably can't afford one... But anyway, what would be a good brand company drum set I could get? I've thought about DW, Pearl, Mapex, Sonor, and a few others. Does it really matter? And I'd really like to get a 7-piece: snare, bass, 3 toms, and 2 floor toms. Any good recommendations or links?

Solid names in drumming: DW, Tama, Gretsch, Pearl, Yamaha, Ludwig, Slingerland, Sonor. That's actually the order I'd put them in as well. This list is the 'high-end' kits list though.....If you can't afford anything more than $1000, go with PDP, Gretsch, or maybe the Tama Superstar. I like PDP because that's where the birch & maple's go from DW. The hardware isn't the best in the world but it works decent enough for the price tag. The main thing is the sound & I've matched up PDP's to the higher end kits & got a matching sound or better. (they came close to DW's as well)

Cymbals is another question you need to think about. Once you get the kit, what cymbals do you get....I'd choose the Sabian prepak's like B8's or similar (unless you can afford the better ones).

 

That's my personal opinion & I am going to stick to it!

[tascam]

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Aug 1 2007, 11:11 PM)

QUOTE (Rush! @ Jul 29 2007, 09:53 PM) If you can't afford anything more than $1000, go with PDP, Gretsch, or maybe the Tama Superstar. I like PDP because that's where the birch & maple's go from DW. The hardware isn't the best in the world but it works decent enough for the price tag. The main thing is the sound & I've matched up PDP's to the higher end kits & got a matching sound or better. (they came close to DW's as well) That's my personal opinion & I am going to stick to it!   I couldn't agree with you more, Der Trommler!!! I would guess that my DW PDP kits are about 90% as great as my DW Collector's Series kits, but are about 25% the cost!! The exact same maple that goes into the DW's, also goes into the PDPs. Sure, you don't get to customize the PDPs with specific sizes or finishes, you don't get the reinforcement rings, and you don't get a stamped note from the factory inside each drum (however, these are things that you can all do yourself, after you buy the PDP kit). I would put my PDP's up against DW sets that cost more than 3-4 times as much!!   Some of the Exotic Finishes are equally as beautiful in the PDP line as compared to the DW Collectors Series!   Long Live Oxnard and Baja, California!!!

Edited August 2, 2007 by tascam

[Rush!]

Thanks Trommler for the advice...

 

I actually have a few cymbals already (all Paistes):

 

14" 303 Hi-Hats

18" 303 Crash/Ride

18" PST China

 

And I plan to ask for a 16" Wuhan china and a 10" Wuhan splash for my birthday. The china I have now (the Paiste one) sounds more like a gong than a china, and I'd prefer a more quicker, thrashier China. So, I'd say the cymbals, for now ( ) are taken care of.

 

But yeah, I'll look into those that you mentioned. I've seen PDP's before, and they don't seem that bad. I have to say I know nothing about hardware and the wood/materials, etc.

[Der Trommler]

[Rush!]

Thank you again DT, I appreciate the advice. I really should know more about the wood and hardware choices for drum kits... and you just helped me out a great deal!

 

I searched for a 7-piece Tama Superstar kit and I found one on Musician's Friend, but apparently, it's been discontinued. The only thing is, it came with a 2nd bass drum, when I'd actually rather have a 3rd high tom than a 2nd bass drum. Are there any 7-piece Tama Superstars available now? My dream set, for right now would be a 7-piece of:

 

Snare

High Tom

2 Standard Toms

2 Floor Toms

Bass Drum

 

[LerxstFerret]

Hey guys.

 

I'm currently using a 4 piece Premier set, with Sabian B8's (The dryest, most boring cymbals on earth).

 

Just wondering what you guys think of the Pearl Export Fusion. It's what I want to get, with a few extra toms.

 

8", 10", 12" 14" 16" 18" toms. 16, and 18 being the floor toms of course.

 

And I definitely need some cymbal upgrades.

 

I may be the only one, but I do not like the paragons that much. If you go to sabians website, they have a cymbal tester, where you can hear each individual cymbal. I really like the hand hammered series, and HHX. Much more then the paragons.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (DustFerret @ Aug 5 2007, 10:23 PM)

Hey guys. I'm currently using a 4 piece Premier set, with Sabian B8's (The dryest, most boring cymbals on earth). Just wondering what you guys think of the Pearl Export Fusion. It's what I want to get, with a few extra toms. 8", 10", 12" 14" 16" 18" toms. 16, and 18 being the floor toms of course. And I definitely need some cymbal upgrades. I may be the only one, but I do not like the paragons that much. If you go to sabians website, they have a cymbal tester, where you can hear each individual cymbal. I really like the hand hammered series, and HHX. Much more then the paragons.

Depends on how much paying for another tom costs. Pearl Forums are VERY similar to the Export series (just done cheaper). If the price of the other drums outweigh the price of a trade-in & purchase of an Export....it's not worth it.

 

Depending on how much $$$ you have, the want might not warrant such a purchase....Getting a better kit is worth so much more than spending $$$ on making your kit larger. Trust me, I did that just before my Tama kit. I had a Gretsch Blackhawk (7 piece kit), I spent so much $$$ on expanding it rather than getting a better kit. Once I heard the difference (and felt it), I have a jaded view of expansion kits now....

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (DustFerret @ Aug 5 2007, 10:23 PM)

Hey guys. I'm currently using a 4 piece Premier set, with Sabian B8's (The dryest, most boring cymbals on earth). Just wondering what you guys think of the Pearl Export Fusion. It's what I want to get, with a few extra toms. 8", 10", 12" 14" 16" 18" toms. 16, and 18 being the floor toms of course. And I definitely need some cymbal upgrades. I may be the only one, but I do not like the paragons that much. If you go to sabians website, they have a cymbal tester, where you can hear each individual cymbal. I really like the hand hammered series, and HHX. Much more then the paragons.

Wait....what Premier series do you have? Forum's are a beginner set. So either way, you wouldn't be getting what you were paying for. I'd stay with the Premier & wait til you enough $$$ to make a better choice. As for cymbals, go with what your ears tell you....it will make all the difference in the world.

[LerxstFerret]

I don't know what Premier series it is actually. It was a gift.

 

The export and the forum are two different sets. The export is of much higher quality.

 

I'm also considering the Pearl ELX, or the Tama Superstar.

 

Money isn't much of an issue.

[MrHands]

If money's not an issue...go big time...Starclassics, DW's or high-end Pearls. Throw in some Paiste's (2002 or Signatures) and you'll be set.