MTV

[circumstantial tree]

Just a general topic I suppose. Yeah, it's a bad channel now what with reality shows and other junk.

 

But how about the good 'ol days? And by this, I personally mean the first several years?

 

I think MTV was great in the early days. When I started watching in 1982 I was introduced to a lot of different bands and music that I'd not heard on, say, top 40 radio, and that includes Rush.

 

I'd say that from 1982 to 1985 were the golden years. After that, it ever so slowly started to dwindle in quality. More and more programs were starting to air with less and less video.

 

I don't think videos were the downfall of MTV, I think it was their vision of broadening their horizons to include programs.

[danielmclark]

As much disdain as I have for the network and the zero-intelligence programming they do, I have to give them points for changing to a sustainable business model. They recognized 20 years ago that simply showing music videos 24/7 wasn't going to grow the business at all. It was a dead-end. They needed to start programming music-related shows or else they'd stagnate.

 

Their problem wasn't in programming shows, it was moving away from the M in MTV. Early shows like Remote Control and Just Say Julie were perfect compliments to the video programming. Even Beavis & Butthead fit really well because they incorporated music videos. They took it too far though, and started doing more and more shows that had nothing to do with music or music videos. And now, MTV has nothing to do with music... it's a lifestyle network.

[tel]

watch scuzz instead

[circumstantial tree]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Sep 27 2010, 09:58 AM)

As much disdain as I have for the network and the zero-intelligence programming they do, I have to give them points for changing to a sustainable business model. They recognized 20 years ago that simply showing music videos 24/7 wasn't going to grow the business at all. It was a dead-end. They needed to start programming music-related shows or else they'd stagnate. Their problem wasn't in programming shows, it was moving away from the M in MTV. Early shows like Remote Control and Just Say Julie were perfect compliments to the video programming. Even Beavis & Butthead fit really well because they incorporated music videos. They took it too far though, and started doing more and more shows that had nothing to do with music or music videos. And now, MTV has nothing to do with music... it's a lifestyle network.

Yeah, but it's stagnant now because instead of 24/7 videos all the time, it's "reality" 24/7. And nobody's really watching.

 

You'd think they'd stop capitalizing on the success of the title MTV and rename the channel to fit more into what they show.

 

SyFy did it, why can't MTV do it?

[Stormtron]

I loved MTV before the TRL era, and not even for the music related programming. I loved the animated shows they had during the mid 90s like Liquid Television, Beavis and Butt-head, The Maxx, The Head, The Brothers Grunt, etc. All that stuff was really cool.

 

There were other live action shows like The Idiot Box, The State, Sifl and Olly, You Wrote It, You Watch It, and Jackass that I enjoyed too.

 

Boy bands, TRL, and 900 Real World spin-offs ruined that channel for me. You'd have to pay me to watch that Jersey Shore type of shit they show today.

[sullysue]

QUOTE (Storm Shadow @ Sep 27 2010, 09:23 AM)

I loved MTV before the TRL era, and not even for the music related programming. I loved the animated shows they had during the mid 90s like Liquid Television, Beavis and Butt-head, The Maxx, The Head, The Brothers Grunt, etc. All that stuff was really cool. There were other live action shows like The Idiot Box, The State, Sifl and Olly, You Wrote It, You Watch It, and Jackass that I enjoyed too. Boy bands, TRL, and 900 Real World spin-offs ruined that channel for me. You'd have to pay me to watch that Jersey Shore type of shit they show today.

Is that Calvin and Hobbs in your sig? It's awesome! Who's the artist?

[Rush Cocky]

Why yes, I fondly remember the days when MTV played non-Gangsta videos.

 

It was a staple of my teen years, actually.

[Stormtron]

QUOTE (sullysue @ Sep 27 2010, 10:29 AM)

QUOTE (Storm Shadow @ Sep 27 2010, 09:23 AM) I loved MTV before the TRL era, and not even for the music related programming. I loved the animated shows they had during the mid 90s like Liquid Television, Beavis and Butt-head, The Maxx, The Head, The Brothers Grunt, etc. All that stuff was really cool. There were other live action shows like The Idiot Box, The State, Sifl and Olly, You Wrote It, You Watch It, and Jackass that I enjoyed too. Boy bands, TRL, and 900 Real World spin-offs ruined that channel for me. You'd have to pay me to watch that Jersey Shore type of shit they show today. Is that Calvin and Hobbs in your sig? It's awesome! Who's the artist? Yeah it is. Nina Matsumoto is the original artist, then someone else added the pot stuff in it. Made me laugh   http://spacecoyote.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d114md1

[sullysue]

QUOTE (Storm Shadow @ Sep 27 2010, 09:37 AM)

QUOTE (sullysue @ Sep 27 2010, 10:29 AM) QUOTE (Storm Shadow @ Sep 27 2010, 09:23 AM) I loved MTV before the TRL era, and not even for the music related programming. I loved the animated shows they had during the mid 90s like Liquid Television, Beavis and Butt-head, The Maxx, The Head, The Brothers Grunt, etc. All that stuff was really cool. There were other live action shows like The Idiot Box, The State, Sifl and Olly, You Wrote It, You Watch It, and Jackass that I enjoyed too. Boy bands, TRL, and 900 Real World spin-offs ruined that channel for me. You'd have to pay me to watch that Jersey Shore type of shit they show today. Is that Calvin and Hobbs in your sig? It's awesome! Who's the artist? Yeah it is. Nina Matsumoto is the original artist, then someone else added the pot stuff in it. Made me laugh   http://spacecoyote.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d114md1 I didn't even notice the J! It's great, though.

[rushgoober]

While I agree that in the 80's MTV exposed me to a lot of music I might not have heard otherwise (although interestingly I listen to almost none of that stuff today), I think it's done a lot more harm than good.

 

Saying that, I don't necessarily think the music industry knew they were killing music with MTV, they were just utilizing what seemed to be the next logical, cultural, technological next step. It was all innocent enough, especially at first.

 

What it unfortunately did is kill a lot of great music, as then bands and artists HAD to have a video to make an impact, and that took money, PR, being on a big label, etc. That's not even mentioning having to create not just an artistically successful song, but an artistically successful video. So many people for all these reasons and more just couldn't make the video thing work for them, and many bands and their songs just didn't make it. When it was merely the age of radio and occasional tv appearances, so many people who otherwise would not have had a chance at success became successful.

 

Have you ever seen an informercial for best of the 70's compilations? They often show tv performances of people who had a bit hit (usually they didn't get on tv UNTIL the song was a big hit). Man, some of these people were not the most attractive people in the world, and if they had to start with a video to get their song to break, they never would have made it.

 

MTV was perhaps more of a symptom than THE cause of killing music in an industry that was always moving more and more into greed and bottom lines over taking a chance on quality music, but it sure didn't help popular music at all...

[Rush Cocky]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 27 2010, 10:41 AM)

While I agree that in the 80's MTV exposed me to a lot of music I might not have heard otherwise (although interestingly I listen to almost none of that stuff today), I think it's done a lot more harm than good. Saying that, I don't necessarily think the music industry knew they were killing music with MTV, they were just utilizing what seemed to be the next logical, cultural, technological next step. It was all innocent enough, especially at first. What it unfortunately did is kill a lot of great music, as then bands and artists HAD to have a video to make an impact, and that took money, PR, being on a big label, etc. That's not even mentioning having to create not just an artistically successful song, but an artistically successful video. So many people for all these reasons and more just couldn't make the video thing work for them, and many bands and their songs just didn't make it. When it was merely the age of radio and occasional tv appearances, so many people who otherwise would not have had a chance at success became successful. Have you ever seen an informercial for best of the 70's compilations? They often show tv performances of people who had a bit hit (usually they didn't get on tv UNTIL the song was a big hit). Man, some of these people were not the most attractive people in the world, and if they had to start with a video to get their song to break, they never would have made it. MTV was perhaps more of a symptom than THE cause of killing music in an industry that was always moving more and more into greed and bottom lines over taking a chance on quality music, but it sure didn't help popular music at all...

OK, get your point that the ugly bands didn't get on MTV.

 

But who says that a music video had to show pictures of the band in any way?

[rushgoober]

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 27 2010, 08:54 AM)

The truth is for an artist or a band to be successful in the 70's, they needed a great song.  In the 80's they needed a great song AND video.  The odds were much more stacked against them. Even established acts couldn't get by without videos.  Name me some bands from the 70's that achieved or maintained mainstream success in the 80's without videos, or name me some 80's acts that achieved mainstream success without videos.  You might be able to come up with some names, but it will definitely be the exception, and bands that couldn't pull off videos for whatever reason generally didn't make it.

Exactly. You nailed it, 'goob.

[Rush Cocky]

[rushgoober]

[Xanadoood]

Up until about the mid 90s, having a "hit video" helped bands sell albums, no doubt.

 

Remember when Aerosmith did the walk this way video with run DMC...that definitely helped in their comeback. And Nirvana got a lot of help with the smells like teen spirit video.

 

I miss the old MTV, ironicly. And I think the internet has killed the industry even more than MTV did.

[circumstantial tree]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Sep 27 2010, 12:10 PM)

I miss the old MTV, ironicly. And I think the internet has killed the industry even more than MTV did.

spot on.

 

One of the reasons 70's bands didn't make it into the 80's was because people were tired of the 70's and wanted a change. Yes were doing 80s style music which helped their case. If they were still doing 70s style prog rock they never would have made it. As it was their popularity had already slipped.

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Sep 27 2010, 10:10 AM)

And I think the internet has killed the industry even more than MTV did.

If video killed the radio star, did the internet kill the video star?

 

I'm not so sure that the internet has hurt the industry in the way most people think of it... in terms of dollars going to the major labels, sure, maybe. But we're seeing a return to a more democratic way of doing things. It's like we're talking about how "ugly" bands couldn't get a hit because of MTV and the need to make videos - when an "ugly" band can bypass the labels entirely and build up a following without going through the normal channels, that's incredibly liberating. It's not just the "ugly" bands, either. There are some tremendously talented musicians who would never have been given a chance even 5 or 8 years ago that have had a lot of success selling themselves thanks to the internet.

 

I couldn't care less if the labels ever make another penny as long as the most important people in the equation - the musicians - can still make a living making music. And they can. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[circumstantial tree]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Sep 27 2010, 12:58 PM)

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Sep 27 2010, 10:10 AM) And I think the internet has killed the industry even more than MTV did. If video killed the radio star, did the internet kill the video star?   I'm not so sure that the internet has hurt the industry in the way most people think of it... in terms of dollars going to the major labels, sure, maybe. But we're seeing a return to a more democratic way of doing things. It's like we're talking about how "ugly" bands couldn't get a hit because of MTV and the need to make videos - when an "ugly" band can bypass the labels entirely and build up a following without going through the normal channels, that's incredibly liberating. It's not just the "ugly" bands, either. There are some tremendously talented musicians who would never have been given a chance even 5 or 8 years ago that have had a lot of success selling themselves thanks to the internet.   I couldn't care less if the labels ever make another penny as long as the most important people in the equation - the musicians - can still make a living making music. And they can. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. mmmm, if they're mp3 files, I'll pass. I'll take a greedy record company over a lousy dumbed down version of music.

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Sep 27 2010, 11:58 AM)

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Sep 27 2010, 10:10 AM) And I think the internet has killed the industry even more than MTV did. If video killed the radio star, did the internet kill the video star?   I'm not so sure that the internet has hurt the industry in the way most people think of it... in terms of dollars going to the major labels, sure, maybe. But we're seeing a return to a more democratic way of doing things. It's like we're talking about how "ugly" bands couldn't get a hit because of MTV and the need to make videos - when an "ugly" band can bypass the labels entirely and build up a following without going through the normal channels, that's incredibly liberating. It's not just the "ugly" bands, either. There are some tremendously talented musicians who would never have been given a chance even 5 or 8 years ago that have had a lot of success selling themselves thanks to the internet.   I couldn't care less if the labels ever make another penny as long as the most important people in the equation - the musicians - can still make a living making music. And they can. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Yeah, I see your point. Bands sort of have to do their own self promotion noe, much like it was back in the day. You can't rely on that big video anymore. With the dawn of Facebook, bands are able to reach a LOT more people.

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 27 2010, 11:42 AM)

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Sep 27 2010, 12:58 PM) QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Sep 27 2010, 10:10 AM) And I think the internet has killed the industry even more than MTV did. If video killed the radio star, did the internet kill the video star?   I'm not so sure that the internet has hurt the industry in the way most people think of it... in terms of dollars going to the major labels, sure, maybe. But we're seeing a return to a more democratic way of doing things. It's like we're talking about how "ugly" bands couldn't get a hit because of MTV and the need to make videos - when an "ugly" band can bypass the labels entirely and build up a following without going through the normal channels, that's incredibly liberating. It's not just the "ugly" bands, either. There are some tremendously talented musicians who would never have been given a chance even 5 or 8 years ago that have had a lot of success selling themselves thanks to the internet.   I couldn't care less if the labels ever make another penny as long as the most important people in the equation - the musicians - can still make a living making music. And they can. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. mmmm, if they're mp3 files, I'll pass. I'll take a greedy record company over a lousy dumbed down version of music. Who says it has to be mp3? Doesn't have to be. Bands can release FLACs, WAVs or any other format they choose. Put the mp3 version in iTunes, put the full quality version up for sale at their own site, simple.

[RUSHHEAD666]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 27 2010, 06:47 AM)

Just a general topic I suppose. Yeah, it's a bad channel now what with reality shows and other junk. But how about the good 'ol days? And by this, I personally mean the first several years? I think MTV was great in the early days. When I started watching in 1982 I was introduced to a lot of different bands and music that I'd not heard on, say, top 40 radio, and that includes Rush. I'd say that from 1982 to 1985 were the golden years. After that, it ever so slowly started to dwindle in quality. More and more programs were starting to air with less and less video. I don't think videos were the downfall of MTV, I think it was their vision of broadening their horizons to include programs.

 

I couldn't agree more. It was great back then in the beginning.

 

"Video Killed The Radio Star" by The Buggles was the first video they ever played. Good for Mr. Downes.

 

I remember most of those VJs who started it all! J.J. Jackson and Alan Hunter come to mind. The blonde Nina something. Can't remember her last name.

 

I think Jello Biafra was way ahead of his time even though he ripped on MTV for something completely different than all of that reality TV bullshit.

 

When I was a senior in high my buddies and I drove into San Francisco to pick up the new "Frankenchrist" lp by the Dead Kennedys."

 

Great record. I still have my banned "Penis Landscape" poster by Giger that came in the lp.

 

The police took most of those "Frankenchrist" albums and burned them over some copyright issue.

 

Anyway, the song "MTV GET OFF THE AIR" is one of my all time favorites!

 

MTeVil GET OFF THE AIR NOW!!!

 

God bless the Dead Kennedys!

 

Signed,

 

"Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables"

[circumstantial tree]

MTV in it's effort to expand business lost a lot of viewers and were on a steady decline. It was a whole lot better when it was just videos. The whole idea of business is not to lose customers.

[Tick]

QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Sep 27 2010, 10:46 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 27 2010, 10:41 AM) While I agree that in the 80's MTV exposed me to a lot of music I might not have heard otherwise (although interestingly I listen to almost none of that stuff today), I think it's done a lot more harm than good. Saying that, I don't necessarily think the music industry knew they were killing music with MTV, they were just utilizing what seemed to be the next logical, cultural, technological next step.  It was all innocent enough, especially at first. What it unfortunately did is kill a lot of great music, as then bands and artists HAD to have a video to make an impact, and that took money, PR, being on a big label, etc.  That's not even mentioning having to create not just an artistically successful song, but an artistically successful video.  So many people for all these reasons and more just couldn't make the video thing work for them, and many bands and their songs just didn't make it.  When it was merely the age of radio and occasional tv appearances, so many people who otherwise would not have had a chance at success became successful.  Have you ever seen an informercial for best of the 70's compilations?  They often show tv performances of people who had a bit hit (usually they didn't get on tv UNTIL the song was a big hit).  Man, some of these people were not the most attractive people in the world, and if they had to start with a video to get their song to break, they never would have made it. MTV was perhaps more of a symptom than THE cause of killing music in an industry that was always moving more and more into greed and bottom lines over taking a chance on quality music, but it sure didn't help popular music at all... OK, get your point that the ugly bands didn't get on MTV.   Then how do you account for Twisted Sister?

[Xanadoood]