Be Your Own Player...

[Dave G]

QUOTE

Hey Dave, I just checked out your music. I really enjoy it! Great writting, production, playing...all around good stuff. Doesn't really remind me of Rush but of this project I was part of in the early 90's. Check it out.

 

Finally got a chance to check that out, LP (now that the holiday insanity is over!). Yep, I can see why the range and character of the vocals in the verses is kind of similar, isn't it? Really cool track, by the way...great groove going on and I really like the bass part. Good stuff!

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Dec 26 2004, 09:50 AM)

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Dec 20 2004, 06:41 PM) This thread comes off as both a bit preachy and defensive. In my early 20s those that knew me claimed to hear Neil in my playing, but when I asked how or where they couldn't articulate it. They just knew that I like Rush so they assumed that I was trying to be like Neil. I deliberately tried not to be like Neil or play like him, yet the things that I like about Rush (and others) influence the structure of my approach. In 1992 I made a point to drop a bass drum and go to a single bass drum (not with a double pedal either) with the original band I was with at the time. Then Roll The Bones came out and Neil dropped a bass drum. This really kind of pissed me off. I was trying to get away from giving the impression of being like him then he did the same thing. Also the original bands I join tend not to be like Rush because I don't want to be pigeon holed as Rush influenced, yet the comparison's to Neil still come. There is no getting around it. Once people know that I like them it is inevitable to be compared to them. Drives me nuts. Great! But don't you play in a Rush tribute band??   If you read my initial post, it said 'unless your in a tribute band' why copy others.   Yes, everyone play whatever you want. Yeah, but I do the Geddy parts, not Neil's. When I play in original bands I play drums. I do the Geddy stuff because my buddy has Neil's kit. I was playing bluesy rock in one band and was accused of playing like Neil. I have never heard Neil do a shuffle.

[BigG]

When I started out I copied Peart, that's because I heard the Weapon and thought - right I'm gonna play drums. So I taught myself by copying Peart's stuff. So it was natural that I copied him.

 

As I got older, heard more stuff, got more of an identity as a person myself I found that Peart's playing was almost the complete opposite of what I wanted to say on the drums. I'm just more happy go lucky and want to play funky grooves that you can dance to.

 

When I was playing loads I would hear a groove or the latest hip thing (usually programmed beats) and try and put it in my playing (sometimes totally inappropriately), so I'd copy like that rather than really picking techniques apart.

 

What I do like about Peart is that it is completely self indulgent playing, he just plays what he likes (seatbelts off to use Dennis Chambers's phrase), there's no-one saying to him -- yeah, yeah, just play the four will ya. Listening to unrestrained liberated playing is always great. To copy that some-one else's liberated self expression is a bit self defeating as a style, but great fun just to play the songs you like and get inside them.

 

... and also I just not good enough to play like him (how hard does he hit the drum!!)

[Indica]

QUOTE (ES-335 @ Dec 26 2004, 02:40 PM)

QUOTE (Indica @ Dec 20 2004, 04:01 PM) Everyone has influences, but to mimic everything a certain musician does seems weak to me. Sure I bought a Gibson SG because Toni Iommi plays one, I think you should re learn the guitar left handed, then cut off two of your finger tips and go for it! Come on!!! I tried learning left handed before ahahaha. It was a bitch. I just thought it would be cool to turn it around and play a song left handed. As far as cutting tips of my fingers, I worked at a machine shop, I cut the tip of my midddle finger on my left hand all the way to the bone, I couldn't play for about a year or so. My finger got infected and the skin came off so the tip of my finger only has a couple of layers of skin, it looks about half the size. I learned to play with it like that. How he did it with two fingers is amazing. But if you got the music in you then you will find a way.

[JoDay]

It's quite interesting to reflect upon this topic.

 

I'm a vocalist first, a keyboardist second. Not professional in the sense I don't quite expect making money out of music - with my music tastes, it's not easy, and I'm not the one to compromise. I don't have a band but have a computer & some software, so I wind up as a performer of electronic music. Having said that, I don't really listen to it extensively, and my mindset is still that of a rock fan/musician.

What I found is that under these circumstances I'm not afraid to experiment, setting absolutely no rules for myself. I don't go for imitation because I don't know anyone I'd like to imitate in this field.

I sometimes think that this is kinda immature - perhaps this all's been done and I'm simply reinventing the bicycle. To be honest, I don't quite care.

When I finally finish a cohesive collection of songs, I'll post somewhere on a website of mine and wait for comments if it resembles anything.

 

But I am not free from influences either. On the keyboard side, it's less evident, I think, even though there's quite a limited range of keyboard players who I actually aprreciate. It's just that people rarely tend to pin keyboard players down as being a clone of someone else - I guess people do not care for us. One of the reasons I'm going to start learning how to play the bass, since I tried drums, but found out I'm physically not made for it. Guitar is just something I never cared for. Dunno why.

 

As far as songwriting goes, there's some of the stuff that I cannot quite cite as Rush influence, but I've always been into odd signatures and stuff. You know, I'm a prog rock freak because this music reflects what I always wanted to do myself. Surely when I discovered this music, I was influenced y it, but it wasn't like 'a whole new world opened' - more like 'being presented with a map of one's own brain', to quote Michael Moorcock (one of my fave writers). I'm quite a recent Rush convert, btw. Three years ago I heard this (insert any positive superlative here) band, but only a few months ago I really grasped what it's all about.

 

But when it comes to my singing, I feel like I'm in a middle of a serious identity crisis. When I started out, my first and most obvious influence was Robert Plant (how many years ago was that?.. Seven almost...). Then I progressed to being a clone of Dio & Coverdale. Having become a fan of Glenn Hughes (someone whose level I will never reach, I guess), I picked up quite a lot from him. Then there was Doro Pesch, to who I could really relate since she is female. Among other influences there were Joe Lynn Turner, Ian Gillan, Sandra Schleret, Candice Night and others...

 

Anyway, the most interesting part is that being a disciple of Glenn Hughes & Doro Pesch (and a hundred of others to boot - what was what Neil said, 'copy a hundred'? I did b4 I ever knew who Neil Peart is! LOL), I wound up sounding like a weird mix of Anastacia in the lower register and (you guess) Geddy in the higher one.

It was not intentional.

What is more, I resemble Anastacia visually.

 

So what should I do? I've always thought that I am myself. But now I discover that I'm quite unoriginal (besides, half of 'my' lyrical ideas have already been thoroughly explored by... Neil Peart).

[yyz]

nice

 

[launchpad67a]

JoDay,

Very well put. Sounds like your pretty much your own player. Keep doing exactly what you're doing!

 

[Guitaraholic]

This is a question I address very early on with my students and my fans alike. For example, I recently closed a set with my band perforimg our cover of The Spirit of Radio. I had not even got the guitar off my shoulder when an individual approached the stage and said "...wow, dude, that guitar sounds really great on that song and you nailed every part!." I was flattered by his compliment on my powers of observation (note4note riffs) but dismayed at his ignorance. I asked him "How does the guitar sound now?" End of set, volumes off, etc. I then removed the instrument and placed it in its stand and asked him the question again. His answer" "I don't kow, you're not playing it." I said "Exactly." That guitar sounds great because of the years of devoted study I've put into developing my own techniques, style, and tone (not to mention the $$$ I've sunk into my gear).

 

I absolutely love Rush and their music; I find great inspiration and comfort on several levels when listening to them. However, I am a musician first, fan of music second. I never tried to to sound like anyone but myself. I can mimic licks, but my tone/sound is my own. My blood, sweat, tears, rage, sadness, and inner-peace & turmoil are just part of my sound. I've worked hard at living poor in other areas in order to afford the right gear I decided upon after much testing and research; all in the spirit of further shaping my sound and style. For the record: MesaBoogie Heartbreaker 2X12 all-tube combo; American Dlx Strats & Teles; Les Paul Classic; Taylor 614CE and Roland KC-550 for its amplification; custom pedal board containing assorted knick-knacks to enhance the natural tones of the instruments.

 

My original material and soloing reflects me and my life's experiences and influences; Rush is but a part of that landscape ( including, but not limited to, Brent Mason, Chet Atkins, Larry Carlton, Pat Martino, Pat Metheny, Allan Holdsworth, Robby Longley and many others). I am an ardent student of music theory and application as knowledge is power and thus freedom from "the rut."

 

For every musician out there, please remember that chimps have been trained to mimic their trainers. Originality and art are not created in the mastery of someone else's licks. Only through experimentation with those licks coupled with training can one even begin to expect to find his or her own voice.

 

Apologies for length; will keep it in check.

 

Peace.

Edited January 21, 2005 by Guitaraholic

[JoDay]

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Jan 15 2005, 10:14 PM)

JoDay, Very well put. Sounds like your pretty much your own player. Keep doing exactly what you're doing!

Thanks It's pretty much all I can do

Edited January 24, 2005 by JoDay

[cygnus_vismund_cygnus]

I feel that setting your kit or getting the same guitar or whatever like your favorite artist is fine. As you long as don't play like them or try to play like them it doesnt matter. Edited February 25, 2005 by cygnus_vismund_cygnus

[amrush]

QUOTE (Dave G @ Dec 19 2004, 06:13 PM)

...There's nothing wrong with never moving on to that stage if one isn't trying to be a serious artist and just wants to have some fun playing music. There are times I wish I didn't have any ambitions beyond just playing and having fun myself, to be honest...we know the odds of achieving even modest success as an original artist aren't so good, and the spiritual cost of shooting for something like that and failing is high indeed. But, like gluttons for punishment, we keep hammering away, LOL.

 

It's very refreshing to read a post like this from a musician that's focused on originals. There are plenty of us that enjoy playing covers or doing tributes for the joy of playing, and for some reason there's a legion of originals guys that disparage the joy of playing off of an existing canvas of material.

 

I've written over 30 originals with an extremely talented songwriting partner (a far far superior musician to myself), and we've written a few (I stress 'a few') decent tunes. This partner is a very nice guy that I get along fine with, and my creative vision - though rather different than his - converges nicely with his. So there's no external distractions in that creative relationship.

 

But nothing about the songwriting process is remotely as gratifying to me personally as getting on a stage and performing a great piece of music that people connect with. I readily accept that, in my lifetime, I may never produce a piece of music that people will connect with, so I'm perfectly happy recreating someone else's creations for my stage experience.

 

That's just me. Just as there are guys out there that don't understand how cover musicians derive pleasure in the reproduction of existing material, I've never understood those diehard originals guys that can't lighten up for two seconds and glean some pleasure from successfully playing someone else's challenging composition.

 

Lighten up! Music's supposed to be fun, isn't it?

 

AM Rush

 

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

[NeilPeartFan2112]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Feb 25 2005, 08:57 PM)

[Steel Rat]

I'm original... I hate bands that aren't.

 

For instance, every punk band follows the same system. *Sigh* And the drummer in punk bands always suck... it's always the same drum fill in every possible opportunity. I don't care much for fills, I just like an original, complex drum rhythm. Like in Mystic Rhythms! That's original, alright...

 

I AM original, I tell you. I am!!! But nobody's EVER, in this generation, going to appreciate that.

[kazzman]

QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Feb 27 2005, 03:32 PM)

I AM original, I tell you. I am!!! But nobody's EVER, in this generation, going to appreciate that.

Which is exactly why bands like Nickleback become popular.

[NeilPeartFan2112]

QUOTE (kazzman @ Feb 27 2005, 08:14 PM)

QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Feb 27 2005, 03:32 PM) I AM original, I tell you. I am!!! But nobody's EVER, in this generation, going to appreciate that. Which is exactly why bands like Nickleback become popular. Good point. Don't like them very much...

[yyz]

QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Feb 27 2005, 11:32 PM)

QUOTE (kazzman @ Feb 27 2005, 08:14 PM) QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Feb 27 2005, 03:32 PM) I AM original, I tell you. I am!!! But nobody's EVER, in this generation, going to appreciate that. Which is exactly why bands like Nickleback become popular. Good point. Don't like them very much... NICKLEBACK SUCKS!!!!

[Steel Rat]

QUOTE (yyz @ Feb 28 2005, 05:14 PM)

QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Feb 27 2005, 11:32 PM) QUOTE (kazzman @ Feb 27 2005, 08:14 PM) QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Feb 27 2005, 03:32 PM) I AM original, I tell you. I am!!! But nobody's EVER, in this generation, going to appreciate that. Which is exactly why bands like Nickleback become popular. Good point. Don't like them very much... NICKLEBACK SUCKS!!!! /every grain of sand on the earth.

[D-13]

QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Feb 27 2005, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (kazzman @ Feb 27 2005, 08:14 PM) QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Feb 27 2005, 03:32 PM) I AM original, I tell you. I am!!! But nobody's EVER, in this generation, going to appreciate that. Which is exactly why bands like Nickleback become popular. Good point. Don't like them very much...   I don't like nickelback

[defrushfan01]

I am original also, as with Kazzman, but for Cretin Rush songs its hard to be oringnal, but with Working Man, I try to put a hard, or even heavy metal feel to it, so ya i guess im original. i dont try to copy any one players style.

[D-13]

Now that i'm older and don't really care about Rush as much (I used to be obsessed)....I think my style has changed. I used to just do whatever Neil did...because he's great. Well thats changed...since I have discovered new music over 3 years time. Now i'm not like Rush/neil (sounding) and i'm glad. That was a huge problem for me back in the day.

[rushfanNlv]

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Dec 20 2004, 02:59 PM)

QUOTE (ES-335 @ Dec 19 2004, 09:23 PM) My whole thing is do what you enjoy. If you enjoy copying others? then Cool! If you hate that and try to do anything to be original, then that is cool as well. Also, there are MANY great musicians out there who can play with the best of them but do not have a creative bone in their body. I mean, they can emulate but not innovate. But, they are still having fun and doing what they want to do. Valid point. Mabey I just look at it differently because it 'my job'. Meaning, I make a living playing music and it IS other peoples music. It's not really a matter of having 'fun', it's always fun (most of the time at least), and the day it becomes not fun is the day I hang it up! My whole point was about the people that go to outrageous lengths to copy 'their' hero! If your 'hero' is so great and you copy everything they do, then you should be great also....right? WRONG, there's a reason they're your hero, because you can't play everything (anything) just like them. So don't, be your own player!! Exactly, it's your job and that is why it is important for you to have your own style. I do what I do for fun and to me, playing Rush is what I consider fun.   I've gone full circle in my musical journey. It started with copying others (especially Alex) just so I could learn. I got good at that and started playing in bands. I played covers for 4 years in high school. After that, I started writing my own music and using MIDI to produce it. For a while in the 90's, I put music down all together and then when it came time to pick it back up, I started gravitating towards Alex again. I thought to myself, this is what I like. I love the sounds, the playing and the simplicity of it all. This is what I want to do. I see no harm in it as it is my hobby and not my job. I mean here I am with what I consider a talent and I'm supposed to just squash it because I choose to use it in a way that others may consider wrong??? I don't understand that pattern of thinking. It's like a home owners association telling me my grass is too long or something.   To each his (or her) own.

Edited February 14, 2007 by rushfanNlv

[Jack Aubrey]

QUOTE (D-13 @ Feb 11 2007, 10:10 PM)

Now that i'm older and don't really care about Rush as much (I used to be obsessed)....I think my style has changed. I used to just do whatever Neil did...because he's great. Well thats changed...since I have discovered new music over 3 years time. Now i'm not like Rush/neil (sounding) and i'm glad. That was a huge problem for me back in the day.

I think we've all gone through that!

[PW_Guitarist]

Interesting thread that just resurfaced. I thought I'd give my 2 cents...

 

I have seen both extremes of this question. On the one hand, I have heard the champions of artistic integrity who refuse to play anything other than their own material and look down upon any cover or tribute bands. On the other, I have met players who consider writing original music to be a pointless enterprise, either because they lack the creativity or don't see any commercial potential in it. I see advantages in a healthy mix of both.

 

Learning difficult pieces of music has helped me improve as a musician, just as playing with better musicians has helped me. There is a great deal of value in learning how your favorite artists construct their songs before attempting to write your own. As an old college professor of mine once said (referring to Vanna White's autobiography): "Before you write a book, you got to read a book!"

 

I did the tribute thing for so long because it gave me a chance at getting great gigs and playing music that means something to me as a "weekend warrior rockstar", but my own music gives me more artistic satisfaction. The first thing people say when they hear my original stuff is "Wow, it doesn't sound anything like Rush". Although I take it as a compliment, I'm a little disappointed that people don't realize I am about much more than playing Rush. That is part of my reason for stepping away from it.

 

We all seem to agree, "do whatever feels right" and no one can ever fault you.

[Rush!]

Wow, this is an awesome thread, great posts by everybody. When I play the drums (my primary instrument) I just improvise for most of the time. I mean I like to learn songs and try to get them note-for-note but I would never play like that at a concert or something. Eventually, when I turn 18, I'd like to venture out to a music school/college and really learn how to read and write music. I will definitely try to become my own "person" there, I won't copy exactly what other artists do. I feel I'm pretty good with performing at the moment, but I want to learn how to read and write music, and maybe even lyrics too.

 

I agree with most of the posts in this thread. You should never copy another performer exactly. Also, it would probably get boring after a while, playing the same stuff every night and never expanding your styles/way of performing.