Gibson vs. Epiphone

[D-13]

Ok really what is the main diff?! How can Epiphone have guitars for like $600-800...while Gibson has it for $2500 +?

 

I ask because I am finally buying another electric. I have been searching forever for a Gibson and whatnot. But recently have turned my eye to the Epiphone Les Paul Ultra. Why? Because of two reasons....The Ultra is 5.5 pounds lighter than the Standard and also the Tone. It's a cleaner sound...even in distortion...I like to play a lot of open chords...and when I play it.... . I found out the price was only $575 CND for this...why so low? I don't get it.

 

I guess its the little things? Pickups are different...This is a semi- hallow even though it says solid...there are cavities inside which makes it more acoustic...which I like!! But seriously what is making the price jump so much? Name?

 

And what do people think about the Ultra? I loved it when I played it and I loved it even more when I found out that Nancy Wilson plays the same one

[D-13]

http://www.epiphonestore.co.uk/acatalog/lp-ultra-fc.jpg

 

http://www.epiphone.com/images/N_NancyInt12.jpg

 

Also I like this too! http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM05/Content/Epiphone/PR/Les-Paul-Ultra-back-sm.jpg

[D-13]

Plus i'm kinda trying to save money for school...so yeah know...I would rather pay $600 than $2800!! I just don't want to buy a piece of crap! you know?

 

 

[ES-335]

There are a few factors. Some of it is ego (ie. some feel if you don't have a true Gibson, it is crap) and looks IMHO. The headstock looks so much different than a Gibson and folks who have been around can spot a Epiphone a mile away. It is sort of like the difference between a Toyota and and Hyundai. Similar, but not quite the same.

 

My personal opinion is many Epiphones play and sound just as good as a Gibson. (BTW: Gibson owns Epiphone) ... I have played several "ES" models and they played great ... To me, the difference in a high end Epiphone and a Gibson isn't that much as far as performance ... but I prefer the look and feel of a Gibson. Also, the Epiphone will not appreciate nearly as much as a Gibson. Time has proved that Gibsons appreciate greatly over the years where as an Epiphone appreciate at a much lower level. Check out Ebay for proof of that.

 

BTW, Alex used an Epiphone acoustic for much of the R 30 tour. he liked it a lot.

 

With all that said ... the bottom line is if you like it, and if it feels right, and if the price is right, go for it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[D-13]

QUOTE (ES-335 @ Jul 21 2006, 09:59 PM)

There are a few factors. Some of it is ego (ie. some feel if you don't have a true Gibson, it is crap) and looks IMHO. The headstock looks so much different than a Gibson and folks who have been around can spot a Epiphone a mile away. It is sort of like the difference between a Toyota and and Hyundai. Similar, but not quite the same. My personal opinion is many Epiphones play and sound just as good as a Gibson. (BTW: Gibson owns Epiphone) ... I have played several "ES" models and they played great ... To me, the difference in a high end Epiphone and a Gibson isn't that much as far as performance ... but I prefer the look and feel of a Gibson. Also, the Epiphone will not appreciate nearly as much as a Gibson. Time has proved that Gibsons appreciate greatly over the years where as an Epiphone appreciate at a much lower level. Check out Ebay for proof of that. BTW, Alex used an Epiphone acoustic for much of the R 30 tour. he liked it a lot. With all that said ... the bottom line is if you like it, and if it feels right, and if the price is right, go for it!

Thanks for your input ES!

 

I am really just playing for fun right now anyways. I know what you mean about ego and the name. Later down the road I will get a Gibson

[thestand]

Though I don't know the technical differences, I do know though I could play Gibson, I play Epiphone. When I play guitar (which has become rare lately) I go for my Epiphone Firebird, which I love.

[_pete_]

I've owned plenty of Gibsons (Les Paul, SG's, and a 335) and currently own 3 Epiphones. A Sheraton II (white 335 style), G1275 doubleneck also white, and a black Les Paul Custom.

 

Price is a factor. The three Epi's were about $1500 combined whereas the equivalent Gibsons would be about $9000.

Gibson's corporate policies are another. I won't put my money in their pockets. If I had to buy a Gibson, I would buy used. I bought my Epi's used for the same reason as they are a subsidiary of Gibson.

 

The Epi and Gibson doublenecks are so close to the same that it's not funny. I've changed the pickups in the Epi and it sounds, plays, and looks just like the Gibson. I use this for one song (Xanadu) in my band and use the 12 string to fatten up recorded parts. Spending $3000 for the Gibson doubleneck would be a complete waste of money.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/pete2112/My%20Guitars/Doubleneck1.jpg

 

The Sheraton II is a very well made 335 copy. By changing the pickups to Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers it sounds as good as the more expensive Gibson. I owned a Gibson 335 and I stand by that statement.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/pete2112/My%20Guitars/Sheraton1.jpg

 

The Epi LP again is made very well and with a pickup change sounds amazing. Currently it has a Duncan Pearly Gates bridge and an Epi Elitist neck pickup.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/pete2112/EpiLPC.jpg

 

Yes, the Gibsons may be better guitars but not 6 times better. Absolutely not.

Epiphones are very good gig worthy guitars. The only thing I find lacking in them are the pickups. The stock pickups are ok, but changing them to great aftermarket pickups makes them into a top notch instrument.

Gibsons will appreciate in value where the Epi's won't but I buy guitars to play so for me that isn't a consideration.

Edited July 22, 2006 by _pete_

[D-13]

Thanks for the info!! Nice guitars btw

 

Going to Long & McQuade today tp check it out. Thanks again!

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

There are good Epis out there, but there are also some not-so-good ones. Epis are cheaper because the materials and craftsmanship are lower than that of Gibsons. They're more inconsistent from instrument to instrument. But if you look hard enough you can score an Epi that will make you not care that it doesn't say "Gibson" on the headstock. Just be patient and wait till you find one that speaks to you.

[Soni]

How is the dot?, I'd like to buy it for crismas or for my b-day

[MrMiltonBanana]

QUOTE (_pete_ @ Jul 22 2006, 10:24 AM)

I've owned plenty of Gibsons (Les Paul, SG's, and a 335) and currently own 3 Epiphones. A Sheraton II (white 335 style), G1275 doubleneck also white, and a black Les Paul Custom. Price is a factor. The three Epi's were about $1500 combined whereas the equivalent Gibsons would be about $9000. Gibson's corporate policies are another. I won't put my money in their pockets. If I had to buy a Gibson, I would buy used. I bought my Epi's used for the same reason as they are a subsidiary of Gibson. The Epi and Gibson doublenecks are so close to the same that it's not funny. I've changed the pickups in the Epi and it sounds, plays, and looks just like the Gibson. I use this for one song (Xanadu) in my band and use the 12 string to fatten up recorded parts. Spending $3000 for the Gibson doubleneck would be a complete waste of money. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/pete2112/My%20Guitars/Doubleneck1.jpg The Sheraton II is a very well made 335 copy. By changing the pickups to Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers it sounds as good as the more expensive Gibson. I owned a Gibson 335 and I stand by that statement. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/pete2112/My%20Guitars/Sheraton1.jpg The Epi LP again is made very well and with a pickup change sounds amazing. Currently it has a Duncan Pearly Gates bridge and an Epi Elitist neck pickup. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/pete2112/EpiLPC.jpg Yes, the Gibsons may be better guitars but not 6 times better. Absolutely not. Epiphones are very good gig worthy guitars. The only thing I find lacking in them are the pickups. The stock pickups are ok, but changing them to great aftermarket pickups makes them into a top notch instrument. Gibsons will appreciate in value where the Epi's won't but I buy guitars to play so for me that isn't a consideration.

I havent been able to find a white Epiphone doubleneck, only the red one

[_pete_]

QUOTE (MrMiltonBanana @ Jul 22 2006, 06:00 PM)

I havent been able to find a white Epiphone doubleneck, only the red one

They are hard to find but they are out there. I found mine on Ebay for $500.00

[ES-335]

QUOTE (_pete_ @ Jul 23 2006, 07:43 AM)

QUOTE (MrMiltonBanana @ Jul 22 2006, 06:00 PM) I havent been able to find a white Epiphone doubleneck, only the red one They are hard to find but they are out there. I found mine on Ebay for $500.00 nice

[ES-335]

QUOTE (D-13 @ Jul 21 2006, 10:28 PM)

And what do people think about the Ultra?

Acording to the reviews at this site, it is well worth the money.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epi...18770&src=00633

[defrushfan01]

Epiphones are still good guitars, but none the less, if your looking to buy a new guitar, and in a few years, sell it and trade up, Epiphone can and cannot be the way to go. If your looking for resale value, go with the Gibson, but for affordibillity go for the Epiphone. The looks are very much the same, and they are similar, but the main difference why Gibsons are MUCH more expensive is that, most ($2500 and up Gibsons) are hand made, while the lower end Gibsons are about half machine made and half hand crafted, but Epiphones are all machine made in i think... Indonesia. heres a pick of my Epiphone Firebird VII, very similar to the Epiphone, but the tuners are a different way, and little stuff like that makes a difference.

 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/DefRushFan/firebird.jpg

[ES-335]

QUOTE (Sonilink @ Jul 22 2006, 02:23 PM)

How is the dot?, I'd like to buy it for crismas or for my b-day

I played a few dots at the store, and the Sheraton II ... they both played well but I didn't really "work them out"

[defrushfan01]

QUOTE (ES-335 @ Jul 23 2006, 10:37 AM)

QUOTE (Sonilink @ Jul 22 2006, 02:23 PM) How is the dot?, I'd like to buy it for crismas or for my b-day I played a few dots at the store, and the Sheraton II ... they both played well but I didn't really "work them out" I hate the DOT, if your looking for something allong those lines go with the: Ibanez Artcore AS83VLS. Ive been looking at this for sometime now, and ive played it about 30 times (no joke) and ive played the dot about.. 10 times, and theres something about it that i dont like. but heres a pic of it so you can see.   http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/DefRushFan/IbanezArtcore.jpg

[_pete_]

QUOTE (defrushfan01 @ Jul 23 2006, 09:28 AM)

but the main difference why Gibsons are MUCH more expensive is that, most ($2500 and up Gibsons) are hand made, while the lower end Gibsons are about half machine made and half hand crafted, but Epiphones are all machine made in i think... Indonesia.

Very little of a Gibson guitar is hand made outside of the custom shop. I know some people in Nashville that work at Gibson.

The main reason they charge so much is that they can. The owner and CEO said as much in an interview a few years ago. Gibson has modeled itself on Harley-Davidson's marketing plan.

 

Epi's are made in Korea and China. The Elitist line is made in Japan.

The 3 I own are all Korean made and the quality control is excellent on all of them.

 

 

 

Very nice Firebird BTW!

[_pete_]

QUOTE (MrMiltonBanana @ Jul 22 2006, 06:00 PM)

I havent been able to find a white Epiphone doubleneck, only the red one

I just saw this. Musician's Friend has the white ones for $899.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epi...itar?sku=519395

[KirkDS]

Good looking guitars!

[Jack Aubrey]

QUOTE (defrushfan01 @ Jul 23 2006, 11:58 AM)

QUOTE (ES-335 @ Jul 23 2006, 10:37 AM) QUOTE (Sonilink @ Jul 22 2006, 02:23 PM) How is the dot?, I'd like to buy it for crismas or for my b-day I played a few dots at the store, and the Sheraton II ... they both played well but I didn't really "work them out" I hate the DOT, if your looking for something allong those lines go with the: Ibanez Artcore AS83VLS. Ive been looking at this for sometime now, and ive played it about 30 times (no joke) and ive played the dot about.. 10 times, and theres something about it that i dont like. but heres a pic of it so you can see.   http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/DefRushFan/IbanezArtcore.jpg I have known two fellows who owned Artcores. They both swore that it was the best guitar that they had ever played.

[PW_Guitarist]

There's a lot of subtle differences between the Epiphones and Gibsons that are not always visible to the eye. However, the difference in price says more about over-inflated Gibson prices than Epiphone workmanship. The devil is in the details, and Epiphone still represents tremendous value for the money even if they cut a few corners on manufacturing. If you get an Epiphone properly setup and change the pickups, you can get a great sounding guitar for a fraction of the price. I have an Epi doubleneck that does the job just fine despite some cosmetic shortcomings (flaws in the finish, mother-of-toilet seat inlays, etc) and cheaper parts (pickups, plastic nut, etc). I opened it up to put in real Gibson pickups and was amused to see the body is actually plywood with a thin figured veneer, but it still plays and sound good at less than a third the Gibson price, so I can't complain.

 

Pete's Harley analogy is perfect - there was a time when Harleys were leaking oil from the factory, and the joke was that you had to buy 2 - one for the road, one for parts. Gibsons are not quite that bad, but I cannot understand how a $3500 Les Paul Custom is shipped from the factory needing a fret dressing and full setup. This attitude of pricing as high as the market will bear simply sucks. This was driven by yuppie furniture guitar collectors with too much disposable income, but it did not help real players. Up to a certain extent, PRS is also guilty of this, with the major difference being that all their guitar are near perfect coming off the floor and can be played right out of the box. In all honesty, the PRS design, look, sound and quality innovations can show a thing or two to Gibson, who seem to have rested on their laurels and reputation in the last 15 years.

 

 

[_pete_]

QUOTE (PW_Guitarist @ Jul 25 2006, 10:04 AM)

There's a lot of subtle differences between the Epiphones and Gibsons that are not always visible to the eye. However, the difference in price says more about over-inflated Gibson prices than Epiphone workmanship. The devil is in the details, and Epiphone still represents tremendous value for the money even if they cut a few corners on manufacturing. If you get an Epiphone properly setup and change the pickups, you can get a great sounding guitar for a fraction of the price. I have an Epi doubleneck that does the job just fine despite some cosmetic shortcomings (flaws in the finish, mother-of-toilet seat inlays, etc) and cheaper parts (pickups, plastic nut, etc). I opened it up to put in real Gibson pickups and was amused to see the body is actually plywood with a thin figured veneer, but it still plays and sound good at less than a third the Gibson price, so I can't complain. Pete's Harley analogy is perfect - there was a time when Harleys were leaking oil from the factory, and the joke was that you had to buy 2 - one for the road, one for parts. Gibsons are not quite that bad, but I cannot understand how a $3500 Les Paul Custom is shipped from the factory needing a fret dressing and full setup. This attitude of pricing as high as the market will bear simply sucks. This was driven by yuppie furniture guitar collectors with too much disposable income, but it did not help real players. Up to a certain extent, PRS is also guilty of this, with the major difference being that all their guitar are near perfect coming off the floor and can be played right out of the box. In all honesty, the PRS design, look, sound and quality innovations can show a thing or two to Gibson, who seem to have rested on their laurels and reputation in the last 15 years.

Excellent post!

 

In no way am I saying that Epiphone's are as good as Gibsons. Gibson makes an excellent instrument (when they want to) that is superior to many other guitars.

Their pricing has put them out of reach of the average player. I use 8 guitars in my show and if they were all Gibsons I would have spent $16-$25,000! For a hobby? No way.

A Gibson Les Paul is an awesome $1200 guitar that sells for $3000. An Epi Les Paul is an awesome $500 guitar that sells for $500. Less than $200 in pickups, pots, wiring, and a new switch put it much closer to Gibson territory. Properly setting it up gets it that much closer.

I've been playing for over 30 years and setting up my own guitars from the start. I know how to make them play well so I have no problem buying an Epi and tweaking it until it's perfect for me.

 

Gibson could learn a lot from PRS if they would keep the lawyers out of it and concentrate on what makes a good guitar great. PRS doesn't let sloppy work get out of the factory. My CE24 is one of the lowest price USA guitars they make and it is absolutely flawless.

 

BTW Paul, my Epi doubleneck is ply also. The thing sounds great anyway. It's currently sporting a mix of Duncan and Epi Elitist pickups. I did notice that they spec the new ones as having a mahogany body.

[rushfanNlv]

Like PW and Pete said, the key is getting the guitars set up and replacing the pick ups. That's not to say that the stock pick ups wont serve you well for playing in your bedroom or practice etc. but for live applications, you'll want to replace the pick ups and pots.

 

That's really one of the factors that I like about Epi over Gibson: the fact that the guitars are so cheap you can afford to spend a good amount of cash on the replacement parts. If you payed the $3000.00 plus for a Les Paul you would expect it to be perfect and replacing parts in the guitar would seriously reduce the resale value of the guitar. With Epi, you can mix and match all you want and never feel like you're destroying the guitars resale value. It doesn't have one.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

I have had 3 Epis, still have two. A Les Paul and a Sheraton. I played many before buying the ones I own. The woods are quite good and have the same specs as the American counterparts. Little things like metric measurements (for example the spacing of the volume and tone pots are just a hair further apart than the American Gibsons). The corners cut are usually on things like inlay and wiring. I have come accross many Epiphones that are incorrectly wired. Basically with both pickups active and you pot down one of the volumes the entire guitar will be muted. So instead of indivdual volume knobs there are two master volumes.

 

The pickups are as good as the American ones (if they aren't the same, though I am fairly sure they are the same). I played my 90's Standard Les Paul next to my roommate's '71 Gibson Custom and mine actually sounded better than his. My Sheraton sounds better than both of them.

 

My Sheraton does have issues with tuning. The G and B strings tend to pull out of tune far too easily. Something I need to deal with because I rarely play this guitar partly because of it (it is also autographed by Les Paul so that is another reason I don't play it much). When I need a good tone for a recording I will use it. It sounds great.

 

I will say that an American Les Paul has a certain feel that I do not feel from my Epiphone. But I just can't rationalize over $1500 for a guitar. I spent less than $400 on my Les Paul brand new and the flame on the top is amazingly beautiful, plus it sounds great too.