Ladies... help me please?

[Necromancer]

Okay, first let me apologize for invading your world here. Posting in your threads is one thing, but i hope this isn't totally out of line. Second, i don't care if guys answer, but I just thought a woman's perspective on this would be more valid.

 

So here's what i did. My daughter is a beautiful eleven year old girl. She will be twelve in April. I know I don't really have a favorite child, but if i did... she'd be it, y'know what I mean? So anyway, Raven is a really tall girl. She takes after me. She's gotta be about 5'9 already and she's only 11. She's also heavy. Due to her height, her weight hasn't been too big of a deal, but she's getting really bad lately. Her eating is out of control. She comes to my house Friday through Sunday night and she's eating the whole time. One of the biggest problems between me and my ex-wife is that I don't like to coddle children. I am not an insulting father, but i don't pull any punches either. I never babied my children extensively. Now i'm not saying i'm not a warm, compassionate dad, but I don't believe in NOT telling them when they screw up. I'm the dad that when my kids get a high grade, i praise them for it, but tell them they could do better. I think this approach keeps the bar set high and they never get too comfortable with things. I totally believe it's motivational. Again... me and the ex always argue about this. Her family is a bunch of book parents and her aunt's children are all spoiled sissies and prima donnas. My boys are tough as well as smart and excel at every sport they undertake. I fully feel that MY side of the upbringing makes this so. Now... back to Raven. Her weight has been getting really out of control. They won't tell me what she actually weighs, but i'm guessing about 165 or possibly more. She's really big. Now she's not fat in the very round sense, but she's a bull. I have been keeping my mouth shut for some time now. Her mom is extremely obese now and I don't think her outlook on anything is in the right perspective if you will. Listen, before any judgements are made... I KNOW that beauty is only skin deep and all that fuzzy crap, but she's an eleven year old girl in her first year of middle school. I KNOW what life can be like for an outcasted child in school and she's already got a lot of social problems. She's a twin and they seperated her and her brother this year, so she's learning to handle social pressures on her own for the first time. She no longer has her brother, who is the class stud, to help her out now. She is a crier. Her feelings are hurt at the drop of a hat, which is WHY i have bent my own rules and HAVE coddled her, where I never did with my boys. UNTIL last weekend. She was rolling on the floor and her shirt rolled up her back. She is COVERED in stretch marks. Her sides and back are a mess from them. Without thinking I said Holy Shit, and she immediately covered up. I told her to let me see them again. She did and you could tell she was on the verge of tears. I couldn't go on with the charade that this is okay any longer. Her mom was there and I gave her a small speech. It wasn't a big one, cause she was on the verge of losing it, but it got the point across that she doesn't have much time left before high school and that hell with appearances, it just wasn't healthy. So of course the ex starts berating me in front of her, which only undermines anything i am saying. I blow it off, but then last wedensday my oldest son came home from college. I went to see him at the ex's house and brought everyone hoagies. Raven pounded her hoagie and she wanted some of a chicken calzone thing that my son brought home from new york. Ken wouldn't give it to her and she was getting pissed. I told her to calm down and somehow my ex brought up that Raven doesn't like my chicken meal that i make at home. So i just looked at Raven and she immediately put her head down. I said... "oh really, cuz she put away two dishes full of it the other day". She immediately started to cry. I felt bad, but didn't want to apologize yet. So then it escalated. She of course went running to the ex and then she started berating me again and said that she wouldn't send Raven to my house this weekend, which was an empty threat... this is a legal custody agreement, so i should've just shut up, but i blew up and yelled that the way Raven's been acting... i don't want her here this week anyway (unrelated stuff that she's just been pulling since she hangs out with a new friend). So Raven yells... Well I don't want to come anyway. Now Raven NEVER back talks me, but since she was in her mom's and being coddled and the ex was berating me, i guess she thought she was allowed. I flipped. I left the house after telling her that everyone else might think it's okay for her to be so fat, but her health will suffer for it and that if they loved her like i do, they wouldn't make like it's not a problem. And with that i dramatically left. Needless to say, the ex didn't send the kids this weekend, but blamed that on MY being sick and not wanting her NEW baby to catch it and that it had nothing to do with Raven and my argument.

 

First... am i completely wrong?

Second... How could i have gone about this better?

Third... How do i smoothe it over with my daughter without admitting being wrong. I sincerely don't think i'm wrong about her health issues as she can barely move. She cheerleads in the summer and since it ended, she does nothing and has ballooned up at least ten pounds in a month.

 

I fully realize some of you may go off on me. I kinda understand if you do, but you must realize I just don't hold the baby the child course of parenting as a very good course of doing so. I thought it was time for a dose of reality to her life and even though i'm the one who's getting the cold shoulder, i hope she realizes i KNOW what she will be facing soon, if it hasn't already begun. We all know how harsh children and teens can be to each other. Yeah... it's cool to say f**k YOU... this is who i am... but it's not always that easy. Please offer your comments and suggestions. I trust my internet community of friends here as much as I would anyone else in my life with giving me good advice. Thanks.

 

ken

[Daylin]

Ken, don't put yourself down about the way you think! IMO Raven does need to learn how to not indulge in eating NOW! Seeing she is 11 it might have to do with hormones. Plus, if her mom is overweight and letting her weight not be a big deal, Raven sees this as being 'OK'...

 

You did say she was separated from her twin brother. That could have something to do with it also. You know....over eating to fill a void.

 

Her health is at risk! But try explaining that to an 11 year old. I know, I was young once

 

I don't know what to tell you what to do except try to get Raven to open up to you. Let her tell you if something is bothering her. If this does not work maybe Raven can talk to someone who can help. I know it's hard for you because Raven is with your ex. I wish I could help you more.

 

Your Friend,

 

Lin

[CanEHdian]

QUOTE (Daylin @ Nov 27 2005, 06:07 PM)

Ken, don't put yourself down about the way you think!  IMO Raven does need to learn how to not indulge in eating NOW!  Seeing she is 11 it might have to do with hormones.  Plus, if her mom is overweight and letting her weight not be a big deal, Raven sees this as being 'OK'... You did say she was separated from her twin brother.  That could have something to do with it also.  You know....over eating to fill a void. Her health is at risk!  But try explaining that to an 11 year old.  I know, I was young once I don't know what to tell you what to do except try to get Raven to open up to you.  Let her tell you if something is bothering her.  If this does not work maybe Raven can talk to someone who can help.  I know it's hard  for you because Raven is with your ex.  I wish I could help you more. Your Friend, Lin

Lin has a good point about 'explaining' things to an 11 year old..my daughter is 12 and I have a HELL of a time getting through to her sometimes.

 

I try to raise my daughter the same way you raise your kids Ken, I dont 'pussy foot' around things..I tell her like it is. I sometimes wonder if that is the right thing to do and I have felt terrible afterwards We just had a 'blow out' the other day, and I still feel like S**T.

 

What if you and Raven (love that name by the way ) sit down and have a little chat..tell her you are VERY concerned about her, and that you can work 'together' on her weight. Give her some kind of an incentive...some new clothes if she drops a few pounds, or a special day that you can spend together.

 

She is at a very difficult stage in her life..still a girl, but growing up into a woman.

 

As far as 'smoothing things over without admitting you were wrong"..sometimes, as hard as at may be to do..we as parents HAVE to admit we are wrong. I don't think you were Wrong..its just that it got blown out of proportion with the EX there to kiss her ass afterwards

 

Things will work out Ken, Raven knows you love her..and sometimes you can talk til your blue in the face, and its the child themselves that have to come to the conclusion on their own that they eat a little too much. All you can do is be there for here, and watch what you eat when she is around..Maybe by good example she will change her ways.

 

Break out the Fruit and Veggies!

 

Shannon

[Dweezil]

Phone Dr. Laura

[Necromancer]

Thanks a lot folks. I'm still a bit twisted over the whole thing but I will mull over your advice. It's not that I don't agree with it, i do actually, but i have a hard time dealing with confrontations with my kids. I'm the kind of guy that I can have a blow up with you and if we keep talking, i'm fine ten minutes later. But i'm also the kind of guy that when we don't keep talking, i get more and more angry. I totally think I was at least thinking correctly on this with her, but since she made such a huge spectacle of the matter and is not talking to me over the whole thing, i'm just getting madder about it. This way of thinking I have to control and just forget about the "blow up" and get to talking to her, i know. Thanks for the advice so far. As for dr. Laura? Why would I call a morals radio show host with a phd in PHYSIOLOGY to help me with my parenting dilemma? I thought it better to ask advice from some of my like minded friends on this board. I really am not that familiar with the woman, but if you recommend her Dweezil, she must be good. I'll check her out. Thanks.

[pixey]

Take her to the Doctor and have her get a through medical exam including blood work to test for Hypothyroidism and diabetes. The doctor and yourself can help her with finding the correct diet needs and work on a work out routine. Perhaps it would also be wise to have her see a therapist. Custody arrangements, seperation anxiety and her changing body are obviously having an impact. Explain to her that you are concerned for her, that her unhealthy eating habits have you concerned. Make an effort while she is in your home to offer healthy food choices and get her active while she is there. How about a membership at the YMCA? They do offer scholarships for those that need it in case finances are an issue. Take her roller skating, ice skating, learn how to ski, anything to get her active. Remember too that some people are just naturally slightly overweight but are still in great physical condition. I know it seems goofy but go to the library and get some materials on healthy living for teens. Offer her your shoulder, love and lots of motivation, get yourself involved and do it together. Have fun together!

 

On a side note, my cousin has a Masters Degree in health and I can ask her for some advice concerning Raven if you would like.

[Necromancer]

Thank you Pixey. I had mentioned this to my ex the time you told it to me in chat. She just blew me off like everything. Her comeback is always that it's ME that's fat. I'm out of shape, yes, which being the health nut that i was/am is kinda weird to see, but i'm not FAT. I'm a big guy, so she thinks every time I mention anyone's weight, especially her's or Raven's, that I have NERVE to talk. I'm also forty and not eleven. My ex just thinks that anything I do or say is too harsh and any advice I give her will be brushed aside. If there is anything your cousin can recommend to me, i would certainly not turn it down. I think you're very right in that it's going to be up to me to motivate her and show her by example while she's here. Something I admit, i'm not really doing. I make fun food almost all the time. I need a dose of healthier living myself. I will email my ex the advice you have told me about getting her checked again and see if that way, in a less confrontational way, she may listen. Thank you again.

 

ken

[sullysue]

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Nov 27 2005, 09:36 PM)

I'm the kind of guy that I can have a blow up with you and if we keep talking, i'm fine ten minutes later. But i'm also the kind of guy that when we don't keep talking, i get more and more angry.

I am exactly the opposite way, Necro. If we let it go for a while and we all chill, we can come back to it a while later and discuss it. That is my messed up family, though, and not yours.

 

My kids are much younger, but I do remember being a teenaged girl. I make an effort to remember on purpose. I don't want to forget for this very reason.

 

OK. I was a very chubby 11- through 13-year-old. My parents never, ever said a word. It was my perception. It was the perception of my peers. I was 4'11", and I weighed 125. Not bad. Not good. I was chubby.

 

Eating was never made an issue in my family. Ironic, given that my parents LOVED to cook. My mom and dad made amazing meals fit for royalty. But, clearing our plates? Ha! You eat or you don't. The difference between full and hungry. Your choice. Eating the food they made WAS NOT AN ISSUE in our house. I learned on my own when I had enough to eat because there were no outside voices saying one thing or the other. Eventually, things worked out, and I am a healthy person.

 

Leave her alone. Both of you. Stop making such a big deal out of her weight and work on your internal relationships. Calm down. Let her alone for a while and calm down. It could be that eating is the only self-soothing tool she knows. Stress in the eyes of a young girl inexperienced in the real world is much more than you can ever imagine.

[sullysue]

It also helps to say, "I love you, not matter what." Mean it. I tell my kids this all the time. Not when they are in trouble or when they are being head strong. Just, when we are hanging out.

 

"I love you, no matter what."

 

Unconditional love. They need to know this. It's what we're here for.

[Daylin]

QUOTE (sullysue @ Nov 28 2005, 12:59 AM)

It could be that eating is the only self-soothing tool she knows. Stress in the eyes of a young girl inexperienced in the real world is much more than you can ever imagine.

This is so true!

[ladirushfan80]

no matter what argument ensued... you say I love You, and IMO, you apologize..... if for nothing else....for blowing up...getting too angry... for not listening..... an apology to a child speaks volumes to that kid.... it lets them know that you can make mistakes too...and take responsibility for them.... if i blow up at my kids... for whatever reason... i always say i'm sorry....and I MEAN IT!

you have to be really careful with girls and weight issues....especially at this age... my 12 yr old comes home from school talking about these girls at her school who are stick thin, and she hears them say things like "oh! I'm so Fat!" and she hears them say they can't eat more than a breadstick or a pretzel because they had a HUGE breakfast, or they aren't hungry.... bullshit.... the girls at this age can be very suseptible to eating disorders... whether it's not eating, or eating too much.....

i would assume that she definately is facing some issues with the divorce, and being separated from you, her twin,and having to deal with such a blended family... i have a blended family....step kids.... exs'.... remarried ex's... it is the toughest job to keep blended families together.... and so i think some family counseling would definately help... she is self soothing with food... that seems pretty obvious to me....

i was going to suggest the same thing as pixey... when she is with you, do some kind of physical activity together... even if she is not with you... do you have some evenings open that you could spend a little extra time with her doing something??? even if it's window shopping at the mall... it's spending some one on one time together...and it's walking around.....even if it's just taking a walk around the neighborhood or park.... rollerblading, ice skating..... even working out together! make sure that when she is at your home that if she is going to eat something...it is something healthy! get rid of the junk!! hopefully, your ex will see the light with what her lifestyle is doing to her kids.... and she can make some postitive changes in her home life as well... she has some real anger issues with you...hence the reason she berates you in front of the kids.....A HUGE NO NO! if she berates you in front of the kids...i wonder what she says about you when you're not around......belittleing the other parent in front of the kids is not good for them... the kids get hurt...confused...and it robs them ....

good luck necro... keep us informed.... you gotta deal with this now befoe it's too out of control... unfortunately the stretch marks will never go away... but they will become less visible in time........

 

[Alsgalpal]

+1

[Necromancer]

Thanks so much. All of you. I'm gonna try to combine all of the advice so far. I think it can be done. I know i've also been a butt head on this. When I see her online, we've both been too stubborn to im the other firs, so we haven't talked since it happened. I can't let that go on. She'll prolly be on soon. I'll break the ice and do the apologize, but you have to understand i have to let her know that the things i'm saying are for her own good. But i will apologize for how i said them and that instead of just commenting, i'm going to join her and help her out with it. Her mom's not wrong when she says i need to do it too. I just know i'm not an eleven year old girl. I used to do the extra time thing with them. I tried to always give them one on one time each week on my ex's nights. Now my ex has another baby and that's another huge issue for Raven. She's not the baby anymore and wants to be with her mom all the time. I'm sure the things that happened with Carol also haven't helped. I am not oblivious to what she must be going through. Not being the baby anymore and she was my only girl for five years after me and her mom split, so yeah... she's going through a lot. But even before any of this, she's been a big girl. I know it shouldn't matter, but it does in school. I don't want her to have even more to worry about than she already does. And though i mention it last, the top priority is her health. But all of your advice has sunk in and I am making the first move in trying to end the riff anyway. I do love her unconditionally Sully. I do think she knows that. Unfortunately the whole argument got more out of hand because it happened at the ex's house. She would never have talked back to me like that here. Which is a power i love having. LOL. I've never laid a finger on any of my kids, but they always fear the what if he does? LOL. I'm just one of those dads that only has to look at them the right way and they quake. I don't know why, but it works. Even the college football player hasn't talked to me like she did the other night. LOL. I think the shock of hearing one of them do that made my head spin like Linda Blair's. You should have seen the looks on the boy's faces. I'm sure they all think... "oh sure, she got away with something again". I'm awaiting her to come on. And there she is. SWEAR TO GOD. I just finished typing that and the aol door opened. WOW. I'll be back. Bye.

 

Thanks so much.

[Necromancer]

Okay... not good. I typed Hi... are you gonna talk to me yet? And she signed off. I'm telling myself that they're having computer problems, cuz they are... but if not... WOW... not good. This really sucks.

[Necromancer]

WHEW!!! It's a comp problem. She keeps showing up and instantly gone. It's happened like ten times now. Unless she keeps seeing me on and logs off IMMEDIATELY. No... won't be paranoid.

[Digital Man]

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Nov 28 2005, 02:51 PM)

WHEW!!! It's a comp problem. She keeps showing up and instantly gone. It's happened like ten times now. Unless she keeps seeing me on and logs off IMMEDIATELY. No... won't be paranoid.

How about you send her a message saying: I am sorry I screwed up. I was over the top, can we please talk about it?

 

She'll get it the next time she connects & will read it then. This way the first thing she knows is that you are sorry. It may make it easier for her to contact you at that point.

 

 

 

 

 

[D-13]

QUOTE (Digital Man @ Nov 28 2005, 03:57 PM)

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Nov 28 2005, 02:51 PM) WHEW!!!  It's a comp problem.  She keeps showing up and instantly gone.  It's happened like ten times now.  Unless she keeps seeing me on and logs off IMMEDIATELY.  No... won't be paranoid.  How about you send her a message saying: I am sorry I screwed up. I was over the top, can we please talk about it?   She'll get it the next time she connects & will read it then. This way the first thing she knows is that you are sorry. It may make it easier for her to contact you at that point. I agree

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (D-13 @ Nov 28 2005, 05:59 PM)

QUOTE (Digital Man @ Nov 28 2005, 03:57 PM) QUOTE (Necromancer @ Nov 28 2005, 02:51 PM) WHEW!!!  It's a comp problem.  She keeps showing up and instantly gone.  It's happened like ten times now.  Unless she keeps seeing me on and logs off IMMEDIATELY.  No... won't be paranoid.  How about you send her a message saying: I am sorry I screwed up. I was over the top, can we please talk about it?   She'll get it the next time she connects & will read it then. This way the first thing she knows is that you are sorry. It may make it easier for her to contact you at that point. I agree Done. I'm pretty sure it's a problem, cuz the sign on and off is instant. But just in case, i sent an email also. She's only a few blocks away. If i don't get ahold of her soon, i may just take a walk down. I just would rather not talk to her on the mom's turf again. It puts my back against a wall and i don't react well. I'm hoping the computer works out today.

[ladirushfan80]

call her up on the phone and agree on mutal ground... i think that would help... it shouldn't be done online... she needs to see AND hear you say your sorry... words are just that...words to so many people... it's the face to face....one on one things that count....

even if you walk to your ex's house.... knock on the door and ask if you and she can go somewhere to talk... maybe someplace nuetral like a starbucks where you can talk your differences out......

bring a flower as a peace offering.... (olive branches are hard to find...at least in my neck of the woods anyway....)

good luck necro... she's your daughter... she loves you so everything will work out!!! hang in there.... i will keep good thoughts and prayers for you!!

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (Alsgalpal @ Nov 28 2005, 03:47 PM)

+1

What does "+1" mean? I've never seen that on a message board before today, but that's the second time I saw it today -- on two different boards!

[Alsgalpal]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 28 2005, 09:02 PM)

QUOTE (Alsgalpal @ Nov 28 2005, 03:47 PM) +1 What does "+1" mean? I've never seen that on a message board before today, but that's the second time I saw it today -- on two different boards! Plus one in agreement. Thats what it means to me.

[Daylin]

QUOTE (Alsgalpal @ Nov 28 2005, 10:14 PM)

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 28 2005, 09:02 PM) QUOTE (Alsgalpal @ Nov 28 2005, 03:47 PM) +1 What does "+1" mean? I've never seen that on a message board before today, but that's the second time I saw it today -- on two different boards! Plus one in agreement. Thats what it means to me. I didn't know that either

[Necromancer]

Okay folks... good news. She WAS logging out cuz she saw me. Yeah... how is that good news? Cuz i emailed her and she emailed me back to tell me that's what she was doing. She is as longwinded as I am with her writings so I just got done reading a very long email explaining how she feels about things. She's not mad anymore, but she was very upset and she also apologized for the way she talked. I agree with LRF that I probably should have called, but i'm still on my cough medicine with codeine and after I logged off here to eat, i passed out. But i'm quite awake now after reading her email to me. It's a start. I know it's not over, but as experienced a dad as I think i am with my boys and all... THIS was very different for me and I can't thank all of you enough for the help and support you've given me so far. Turns out we both think the other has been acting different lately. She's right and I'm prolly not so right. I get into funks and probably jumped the gun on her on some other issues that I should have kept my cool over. The fat thing only seemed to be the icing on the cake for her as far as why she blew up at me. I have a lot of work to do, but I won't let it get any worse. Again, i can't tell you all how much it helped to hear your opinions and ideas on this. Thanks again.

 

ken

[yyzena]

QUOTE (ladirushfan80 @ Nov 28 2005, 06:58 PM)

bring a flower as a peace offering.... (olive branches are hard to find...at least in my neck of the woods anyway....)

I just loved that ... I think a girl getting a flower(s) from her dad is such a beautiful gesture, one she will always remember!

 

Necro, I feel that things will be much better once the two of you talk face to face ... remember, it's the deep love and concern that you have for your daughter (and I think we can all see how much you love her) that bought you to this point ... you are worried for her health, with all the statistics coming out about childhood diabetes and other health problems associated with being heavier, you have a good right to be. We all have to be so very careful with our health ..... think about it, you can have all the money in the world, all the best clothes, a big house, nice car etc .. but if you don't have your health, it all means nothing.

 

Your doctor (or her doctor) may be able to get you in touch with a nutritionist or dietitian, and they can help educate her on setting up a healthy eating routine. I visited a nutritionist for a few sessions, and together we discovered what my dietary 'pitfalls' were, and she gave me strategies to avoid them, as well and educate me on how sugars, fats, proteins and carbs all affect the body. I found it to be very helpful.

 

I wish you luck & strength, my friend!

[ladirushfan80]

QUOTE (yyzena @ Nov 30 2005, 10:02 PM)

QUOTE (ladirushfan80 @ Nov 28 2005, 06:58 PM) bring a flower as a peace offering.... (olive branches are hard to find...at least in my neck of the woods anyway....) I just loved that ... I think a girl getting a flower(s) from her dad is such a beautiful gesture, one she will always remember!   Necro, I feel that things will be much better once the two of you talk face to face ... remember, it's the deep love and concern that you have for your daughter (and I think we can all see how much you love her) that bought you to this point ... you are worried for her health, with all the statistics coming out about childhood diabetes and other health problems associated with being heavier, you have a good right to be. We all have to be so very careful with our health ..... think about it, you can have all the money in the world, all the best clothes, a big house, nice car etc .. but if you don't have your health, it all means nothing.   Your doctor (or her doctor) may be able to get you in touch with a nutritionist or dietitian, and they can help educate her on setting up a healthy eating routine. I visited a nutritionist for a few sessions, and together we discovered what my dietary 'pitfalls' were, and she gave me strategies to avoid them, as well and educate me on how sugars, fats, proteins and carbs all affect the body. I found it to be very helpful.   I wish you luck & strength, my friend! thank you! every year for their birthdays i give my girls flowers... but sometimes " just because" is awesome! especially from a family member!!   Necro.. just reading Riv's thread that he wrote about eating and nutrition is a good source for her to start eating healthy too..!!!!!