Jacob's Ladder vocal effect

[LeChuck]

(In the continuing search for answers to my lingering Rush questions ..)

 

This seems like the kind of question that would be answered somewhere already, but every time I search I come up with nothing. What is the effect Geddy has on his voice during the middle section of Jacob's Ladder?

 

Presumably there is a tape echo since the "s" in "beams" at the end repeats off into infinity. But what is the rest of the effect? My only guess is that he's running his vocals through the Minimoog so it has the same filtering as the Minimoog lead part (for some reason listening to the ESL version especially makes me think this).

 

Anyone else have ideas or already know what this is?

[Lorraine]

[Lorraine]

Chuck, someone here will know the answer to your question. I've asked loads of questions like that on here.

[JARG]

(In the continuing search for answers to my lingering Rush questions ..)

 

This seems like the kind of question that would be answered somewhere already, but every time I search I come up with nothing. What is the effect Geddy has on his voice during the middle section of Jacob's Ladder?

 

Presumably there is a tape echo since the "s" in "beams" at the end repeats off into infinity. But what is the rest of the effect? My only guess is that he's running his vocals through the Minimoog so it has the same filtering as the Minimoog lead part (for some reason listening to the ESL version especially makes me think this).

 

Anyone else have ideas or already know what this is?

 

Perhaps a vocoder?

[RushFanForever]

Email Terry Brown from his website here or his email address is posted on his Facebook page here and ask him about Geddy's voice effects on 'Jacob's Ladder'.

[JARG]

Listening to the studio cut just now and the vocals aren't all that effected. Lots of reverb and maybe just a bit of flange. The ESL version is a different story.

[chemistry1973]

Listening to the studio cut just now and the vocals aren't all that effected. Lots of reverb and maybe just a bit of flange. The ESL version is a different story.

 

Perhaps double tracked at that spot too.

[LeChuck]

For sure the effect isn’t as heavy on the studio version. I’m guessing it’s the same thing since they tended to reproduce those kinds of things pretty accurately live.

 

It doesn’t sound like a vocoder to me (and I love vocoders). Here’s an interesting quote about those from the great Keyboard magazine 1984 interview:

 

“I used a vocoder once, but I didn't have good success with it. I couldn't get it to work very well.“

 

Does Terry Brown actually reply to emails from fans? I didn’t even consider pinging him about something like this - I'll send a mail to him today. I wanted to ask Geddy at a book signing, but there’s barely enough time to chat (especially when you’re star struck and at a loss for words).

Edited November 13, 2019 by LeChuck

[chemistry1973]

For sure the effect isn’t as heavy on the studio version. I’m guessing it’s the same thing since they tended to reproduce those kinds of things pretty accurately live.

 

It doesn’t sound like a vocoder to me (and I love vocoders). Here’s an interesting quote about those from the great Keyboard magazine 1984 interview:

 

“I used a vocoder once, but I didn't have good success with it. I couldn't get it to work very well.“

 

Does Terry Brown actually reply to emails from fans? I didn’t even consider pinging him about something like this - I'll send a mail to him today. I wanted to ask Geddy at a book signing, but there’s barely enough time to chat (especially when you’re star struck and at a loss for words).

 

Chances are very good that the vocals on the ESL Jacob's Ladder version were recorded in the studio.

[grep]

Exit Studio Left?

[LeChuck]

Chances are very good that the vocals on the ESL Jacob's Ladder version were recorded in the studio.

Just as another data point, I've been listening today to various versions of Jacob's Ladder from the Permanent Waves tour (and one early version apparently from late Hemispheres timeframe). In all cases the vocals sound like what you hear on ESL. So I guess he really was pulling it off live, and the effect is laid on thicker than the studio version.

 

It's interesting in the live versions how nasal the effect makes his voice too. I can't think of how he could do that with the tape echo or their usual effects (phaser, chorus). Hopefully Terry will reply and give a clue.

[greyfriar]

My guess would be that it's the Roland Space Echo.

A lot of bands used it to produce their vocal effects and it was part of Geddy's equipment back then.

[LeChuck]

My guess would be that it's the Roland Space Echo.

A lot of bands used it to produce their vocal effects and it was part of Geddy's equipment back then.

Yeah, some of those great gear shots of his live rig show a Roland Space Echo and a Korg Stage Echo (besides the Oberheim DS-2(A) sequencer and one other box I can't recall). For sure he has some kind of tape echo on the album version, since you can hear it do a fast repeat at the end. I'm not sure how you could achieve the rest of the effect with a tape echo though, especially the live version.

 

PS - Here's a decent quality version of that shot where you see the two echo units. Anyone recognize the unit in between them (with the cord going off to the left)?

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rScBRKlTdoE/ScfDz_hHn5I/AAAAAAAALE8/N1lu6GOGbq8/s1600-h/blender_geddy.jpg

Edited November 14, 2019 by LeChuck

[greyfriar]

My guess would be that it's the Roland Space Echo.

A lot of bands used it to produce their vocal effects and it was part of Geddy's equipment back then.

Yeah, some of those great gear shots of his live rig show a Roland Space Echo and a Korg Stage Echo (besides the Oberheim DS-1 sequencer and one other box I can't recall). For sure he has some kind of tape echo on the album version, since you can hear it do a fast repeat at the end. I'm not sure how you could achieve the rest of the effect with a tape echo though, especially the live version.

 

PS - Here's a decent quality version of that shot where you see the two echo units. Anyone recognize the unit in between them (with the cord going off to the left)?

https://4.bp.blogspo...ender_geddy.jpg

I never had a Roland Space Echo, so this was just a guess, based on Geddy's equipment list from the Permanent Waves tourbook and from what I've heard and read about the Roland. The damn thing must be a beast, especially when you edge vocals through it.

 

That's PROG!!!

[LeChuck]

Anyone know if there is a way to contact Jack Secret? I pinged him a long time ago on Facebook and he replied, but it looks like he's not on there anymore. No reply yet from Terry Brown on this stuff, so was looking for other angles to try. I'm sure since he maintained the keyboard rig that Jack would know the answer to this too.

[chemistry1973]

Anyone know if there is a way to contact Jack Secret? I pinged him a long time ago on Facebook and he replied, but it looks like he's not on there anymore. No reply yet from Terry Brown on this stuff, so was looking for other angles to try. I'm sure since he maintained the keyboard rig that Jack would know the answer to this too.

 

Gump is semi responsive.

[RushFanForever]

Anyone know if there is a way to contact Jack Secret? I pinged him a long time ago on Facebook and he replied, but it looks like he's not on there anymore. No reply yet from Terry Brown on this stuff, so was looking for other angles to try. I'm sure since he maintained the keyboard rig that Jack would know the answer to this too.

 

Gump is semi responsive.

 

Lorne Wheaton worked with RUSH from the 90's and onward. He wouldn't have been in the studio when the band recorded 'Jacob's Ladder' in the late 70's.

 

Mind you, Lorne has been connected with the band in a way since the 70's as he was doing tech work for Max Webster.

 

Lorne Wheaton: Drum Tech with Jimmy DeGrasso and Alice Cooper

Edited November 20, 2019 by RushFanForever

[chemistry1973]

Anyone know if there is a way to contact Jack Secret? I pinged him a long time ago on Facebook and he replied, but it looks like he's not on there anymore. No reply yet from Terry Brown on this stuff, so was looking for other angles to try. I'm sure since he maintained the keyboard rig that Jack would know the answer to this too.

 

Gump is semi responsive.

 

Lorne Wheaton worked with RUSH from the 90's and onward. He wouldn't have been in the studio when the band recorded 'Jacob's Ladder' in the late 70's.

 

Mind you, Lorne has been connected with the band in a way since the 70's as he was doing tech work for Max Webster.

 

Lorne Wheaton: Drum Tech with Jimmy DeGrasso and Alice Cooper

 

no, but he was on the last tour where they played Jacobs ladder.

[LeChuck]

While looking through old photos of Le Studio, I noticed the rack effect I'm trying to identify is in this photo (right side under the two white units, right at the top of the head shadow):

https://2.bp.blogspo...eights_pic5.jpg

 

Terry Brown responded today and said his recollection is that it was an Eventide phaser or flanger effect (with the caveat that it was a long time ago). It does look roughly like an Eventide unit, but I haven't found any that match. And it does make sense that it would be in Geddy's live rig, since he pulled the effect off live too. Anyone have ideas?

 

Looks like it's a relatively small device, with only those few knobs and jacks. And it's got those extension faceplates to mount it into the normal rack width space. The make/model name looks like two words. So far nothing's turned up .. time to make a big pot of coffee ..

Edited December 12, 2019 by LeChuck

[LeChuck]

(Replying to myself instead of editing the previous post to add all this ..)

 

After asking around on other boards, it looks like it’s a Urei 964 Digital Metronome. Presumably to set the DS-2 sequencer tempo and give a click output to Neil (guess it was only for Spirit of Radio at that point). Neat, I never heard of them using a click that early .. you only hear about that for later stuff like The Weapon and Red Sector A.

 

What's also interesting is that he doesn't appear to have this metronome at the start of the PeW tour. At some point in the tour they redid his rig to add the Korg echo and metronome, and moved a few things around (like adding the table/shelves to his left for the effects, metronome, sequencer, top 4 SEMs from the Oberheim 8 voice, and the OB-1). Geez, I gotta find a way to ask Jack Secret about this stuff again ..

 

Anyway, the quest continues for the vocal effect source .. seems like it would have to be in that rig somewhere if he has all his other effects right there within reach. My current guess is still that he's running his vocals through the Minimoog filter and then through the Roland Space Echo. Need more inside info ;)