Guitar question

[clem]

So with the R40 tour boasting that the guys are using a bazillion different guitars (and two drum sets), can someone tell me what exactly is the difference between the acoustic and the acoustic "sounding" guitars that Alex uses?

 

I started paying attention to this issue when Alex ran into some difficulties during the intro of "Closer to the Heart" when he was playing his acoustic at the Austin show.

 

I noticed, for example, on the Rush in Rio DVD that Alex uses an acoustic guitar for the intro of "The Trees", but at the same show he uses a "regular" guitar for the intro to "Closer to the Heart". I don't get it. Especially since, during the "electric guitar" part of "Closer to the Heart", he uses the same guitar. Does he simply push a button on the guitar to make it change sounds? Or does he just kick a pedal with his foot on the foot pedal thingy?

 

I've noticed the same things on live songs such as "Driven" and "Nobody's Hero". The parts on those songs sound like an acoustic guitar, but he's playing a regular one.

 

Now, if he IS just pushing a button or kicking a pedal, why bother using the acoustic at all? Is it just for show? I've often wondered the same thing about the double necks on "Xanadu". When the guys come out with the double-neck, the whole crowd goes spazoid with awe, but is it really necessary if you can just push buttons and kick pedals?

 

I remember once reading an interview with Dennis DeYoung of Styx (before they kicked him out) that his grand piano that he had on stage wasn't really a grand piano. It just LOOKED like a grand piano, but in fact was a fancy electric keyboard that looked and sounded like a grand piano because it was too complicated to get the sound right with a "real" grand piano (hey, at least he was honest).

 

Is Rush doing something with the guitars?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Clem.

[RUSHandOSU]

The acoustic sound he gets on his electric guitars are a piezo transducer. Its an extra you can add to it. He has it on a few les pauls as well and a few PRS'. The reasoning though behind what he chooses to use is probably his preference.

[Ancient Ways]

I'm not sure what he's using but Google guitar tone modeling. I have a pod hd500 that I can plug into and recreate almost any sound including making it sound acoustic.

[Merely Space]

People will argue at great length about how well an electric guitar can mimic an acoustic guitar. The piezo- electric pickups in Alex's signature Les Pauls do sound remarkably good to my ears, but I can still tell that it's not an actual acoustic guitar. Same thing for modeling an acoustic. An octaver can approximate a twelve-string, but since a real twelve-string has two strings that are unison instead of octaves, it will never be completely accurate.

 

But another issue for old school guitarists is feel. Even if you get the sound right,an electric plays very differently from an acoustic.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Merely Space

[RushIslander]

As far as Xanadu, Geddy plays rhythm guitar( AND bass pedals) during Al's solo, so that's why he used the double neck. It is a shame that they chose to omit the full ending because Geddy actually plays the riff as Alex plays the backing chord picking/arpeggios.

 

Alex also plays some parts on the twelve string(top) neck, and others on the six string that give the song contrast guitar wise; a brilliant approach for a three man band!!!

 

eta: Pic from Tampa 5_24_15

 

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w428/rushon1/Rush%20R40%20Tampa%205_2015%20380_zpsdyp1xxag.jpg

Edited June 1, 2015 by RushIslander

[Rush-O-Matic]

So with the R40 tour boasting that the guys are using a bazillion different guitars (and two drum sets), can someone tell me what exactly is the difference between the acoustic and the acoustic "sounding" guitars that Alex uses?

 

I started paying attention to this issue when Alex ran into some difficulties during the intro of "Closer to the Heart" when he was playing his acoustic at the Austin show.

 

I noticed, for example, on the Rush in Rio DVD that Alex uses an acoustic guitar for the intro of "The Trees", but at the same show he uses a "regular" guitar for the intro to "Closer to the Heart". I don't get it. Especially since, during the "electric guitar" part of "Closer to the Heart", he uses the same guitar. Does he simply push a button on the guitar to make it change sounds? Or does he just kick a pedal with his foot on the foot pedal thingy?

 

I've noticed the same things on live songs such as "Driven" and "Nobody's Hero". The parts on those songs sound like an acoustic guitar, but he's playing a regular one.

 

Now, if he IS just pushing a button or kicking a pedal, why bother using the acoustic at all? Is it just for show? I've often wondered the same thing about the double necks on "Xanadu". When the guys come out with the double-neck, the whole crowd goes spazoid with awe, but is it really necessary if you can just push buttons and kick pedals?

 

 

The acoustic sound he gets on his electric guitars are a piezo transducer. Its an extra you can add to it. He has it on a few les pauls as well and a few PRS'. The reasoning though behind what he chooses to use is probably his preference.

 

Since you said you're a non-musician, I'll add a bit more. The "piezo transducer" is attached under the bridge (the part where the strings are fixed to the guitar) instead of a magnetic coil under the strings. It picks up the vibrations in the wood and bridge, rather than the vibrations of the strings. (Sort of.) And, that gives it an acoustic sound since it has a bit of that resonance like you'd find in an acoustic guitar. Alex's guitars with this feature have two output jacks, and yes, he (or the sound guy) can "push a button" or foot switch to activate it. He usually has pre-programmed balance of how much electric and how much acoustic he wants in the blend.

 

And, yes, much of it is for show and the theatrics of a live event - much like the shifting and changing of their "amplifiers" behind them, Neil's drum kits. It looks cool to have an acoustic guitar mounted on a stand and just walk away from it to start playing electric. Some of it is timing and how he can switch between the sounds live, and some of it is just what feels good to him to play.

 

I remember once reading an interview with Dennis DeYoung of Styx (before they kicked him out) that his grand piano that he had on stage wasn't really a grand piano. It just LOOKED like a grand piano, but in fact was a fancy electric keyboard that looked and sounded like a grand piano because it was too complicated to get the sound right with a "real" grand piano (hey, at least he was honest).

 

That has more to do with the fact that traveling with a real grand piano is very difficult. It has to be re-tuned before every show (88 keys, and most grand pianos have 230 strings - each one has to be tuned!) And, by the time they unload it from one environment, give it time to stabilize (which they don't have) and tune it, it's possibly out of tune come show time. In addition, at a loud rock show, trying to mic an acoustic piano and not have it feedback like a mofo is a challenge. So, it's just much more practical to have a grand piano body with an electronic keyboard. (I believe that though Elton John endorses Yamaha and looks like he's playing one, the guts are actually a Roland something.)

 

Is Rush doing something with the guitars?

 

Yes.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Rush-O-Matic

[Ron2112]

 

Since you said you're a non-musician, I'll add a bit more. The "piezo transducer" is attached under the bridge (the part where the strings are fixed to the guitar) instead of a magnetic coil under the strings.

 

No.....the PRSs that ALex has used since the TFE tour have an actual resonance cavity and the piezo transducer is INSIDE the guitar. PRS has offered a solidbody option since 2012, but that is a true solidbody guitar, with the piezo circutry still imbedded in the guitar.

[JARG]

Lots of good information already offered, but why let that stop me? :)

 

So with the R40 tour boasting that the guys are using a bazillion different guitars (and two drum sets), can someone tell me what exactly is the difference between the acoustic and the acoustic "sounding" guitars that Alex uses?

 

I started paying attention to this issue when Alex ran into some difficulties during the intro of "Closer to the Heart" when he was playing his acoustic at the Austin show.

 

I noticed, for example, on the Rush in Rio DVD that Alex uses an acoustic guitar for the intro of "The Trees",

 

He plays a classical guitar for The Trees intro. A classical guitar typically uses nylon strings rather than steel strings (like an acoustic or an electric) and is a distinctive enough sound that most folks feel it can't be duplicated. You can fake an acoustic guitar sound on an electric guitar (with the right gear) well enough that most folks won't notice it, but you can't fake a classical guitar sound.

 

[graptemys]

Interesting to note that in regards to Xanadu, they played the whole song except for the last section right before they have the big rock-n-roll ending on E. They have not played that much of that song in a very long time. The skipped part is quite intricate with Alex playing one of his classical background arpeggiated lines with open string intermixed with high octaves (!2 string guitar)..the same style he uses during the bridge in Trees. The really cool part is that Geddy is playing an actual real guitar line (not just four chords) that requires skilled picking. Unfortunately, they skipped that and went right to the outro.

 

Another note is that Alex did not play 12 string during the "solo" chord part toward the beginning of the song (the part where Geddy is playing keyboard and Neil is playing pitched cowbells). He clearly changes necks in the Exit Stage Left Concert and I waited for him to do so in Tampa and he stayed on the 6 string. (E, D, B, A, G).

[JARG]

Another note is that Alex did not play 12 string during the "solo" chord part toward the beginning of the song (the part where Geddy is playing keyboard and Neil is playing pitched cowbells). He clearly changes necks in the Exit Stage Left Concert and I waited for him to do so in Tampa and he stayed on the 6 string. (E, D, B, A, G).

 

I noticed that too.

[clem]

Thanks all. I definitely learned a few things!

 

My whole curiosity started when Alex's acoustic stopped working during the "Closer to the Heart" intro in Austin, and he had to give it a whack to try to get it working again.

 

Then I saw the Rush and Rio video and noticed he didn't even USE an acoustic for that intro. He probably now wishes he didn't during the Austin show.

 

Clem

[Rush-O-Matic]

Since you said you're a non-musician, I'll add a bit more. The "piezo transducer" is attached under the bridge (the part where the strings are fixed to the guitar) instead of a magnetic coil under the strings.

 

No.....the PRSs that ALex has used since the TFE tour have an actual resonance cavity and the piezo transducer is INSIDE the guitar. PRS has offered a solidbody option since 2012, but that is a true solidbody guitar, with the piezo circutry still imbedded in the guitar.

 

Ahh, cool, I didn't know that about the PRS's. The Les Paul Axcess models that he's been playing the last several tours, though use Graphtec piezos, though, right? I'm pretty sure I remember reading that or seeing it in an interview. And, those are built right into the Floyd Rose with the Ghost crystals. At least, that's what I seem to remember.