Apparently, is this true?

[laughedatbytime]

Who here went to the Moving Pictures tour concert(s)? So I know who to envy.

Me too...and I have the original vinyl for ESL from the first day it came out.

[Spaghetti Lee]

I have the original ESL on VHS but no longer have a video player, is it worth transferring the video to disc?

 

HELL YES!

 

Get a VHS player off of ebay for a few dollars, or a good cheap VHS/DVD recorder combo and record the DVD in "XP" mode; that way the audio is recorded in uncompressed linear PCM and you will basically be making a CD-quality copy of the original audio from your VHS Exit Stage Left. Hell, the video transfer on Replay is so horrible that I'm sure your VHS copy will look better if you record it to DVD at the highest bit rate (again, "XP" recording mode).

 

If you were closer I'd do it for you...I have a bunch of professional quality JVC S-VHS and D-VHS units and DVD recorders that have greatly effective built-in noise processing to get rid of digital noise and blocking artifacts; newer DVD recorders don't have such advanced processing as the DVD recorder market is dead. The DVD copies I make look nearly as good as playing the original analog VHS, which is all you can really ask for.

[tas7]

Also have Chronicles on VHS. Rush don't seem to have a good track record with recording live performances, all I ask is for decent stereo mixes. If only the sound quality matched that Anthem 'thing' at the beginning which is very loud.

[ytserush]

I'm reading that Alex remixed and produced the sound on the live DVDs, is this true?

 

Oh yes...Alex's destruction of the classic Terry Brown mix of the formerly perfect audio on "Exit Stage Left" is legendary. Here is a review I wrote of "Replay" years ago:

 

"All those VERY familiar with the "Exit Stage Left" original VHS and Laserdisc, especially BASS players, view the opening bass tone of "Limelight" as Geddy's holy grail Rickenbacker sound. The slamming thick distorted midrange presence on the VHS version of this video is PERFECTION. Guess what???? IT'S GONE.

 

Whenever you see "Audio produced by Alex Lifeson" on the cover, RUN. The audio of this concert (and "Grace Under Pressure" as well) is absolutely abysmal. Reverb has been added, the midrange bite of the bass guitar is GONE, and the entire mix is so completely digitally distorted and clipped from normalization compression that it is nearly UNLISTENABLE. Don't believe me??? Set your audio options to "PCM Stereo" and turn your tv down to about 1 or 2, so that your tv volume is whisper quiet. Then, listen to the sound of this dvd at that super soft volume. WHAT YOU HEAR IS COMPLETE DIGITAL OVERLOAD SIZZLY CLIPPING. IT SOUNDS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE!!!!! Nevermind the added reverb, increased sub-bass, and decreased midrange. Strangely, these DVD's have the EXACT same digital clipping as Vapor Trails, Rush in Rio (unlistenable), Feedback, and R30!!!! What the h*** is going on? Who in their right mind would purposely mix these things to sound COMPLETELY distorted, with NO definition between instruments, in a mish-mosh of Pro-Tools sounding distortion and noise????? THIS IS ABSOLUTE TREASON TO DESTROY A GREAT TERRY BROWN MIX OF A CLASSIC LIVE RECORDING LIKE THIS. The 5.1 mix is just as bad, even more "empty" sounding, with Geddy's vocals sounding like they are in a separate room. Even less bass guitar midrange on the 5.1 mix. But, its the absolutely overloaded digital clipping distortion and added 90's reverb that totally absolutely inexcusably destroy these classic recordings!!!!!

 

Even the "Grace Under Pressure" dvd and cd sound horrendous. Reverb has been added, there is WAY too much sub-bass, the bass guitar disappears, and there are digital compression artifacts such as ringing evidenced a LOT. Also, some of the vocals are different; I'm assuming on the original release Geddy "touched up" his vocals in the studio, and who ever remixed (ie, RUINED) this new version wasn't even familiar enough with the original to notice the different vocal tracks. Compare tracks such as the end of "Distant Early Warning" and "Vital Signs" to hear the differences. I have an original version of this recorded off the radio in 1987 to reel to reel...and its thick, punchy, dry, and "in your face" sounding...like a REAL band in your LIVING ROOM...NOT AT THE OTHER END OF A TUNNEL OR THE BACK OF A STADIUM!!!!!!!!

 

Also, why does the snare drum all of the sudden on all these old recordings NOW sound like Neil's new paper thin raspy digitally reverbed snare of the last 5 years??????? Absurd.

 

The audio portion of at least the "Exit Stage Left" disc borders on idiocy nearly to the extent of the re-recordings/remixing of Ozzy's "Blizzard of Ozz", "Diary of a Madman", and "Bark at the Moon".

 

Alex Lifeson, while a fun and credible guitarist, absolutely SUCKS at audio engineering.

 

I wholeheartedly HATE the destruction of one of the best sounding live Rush shows in history. The original VHS sound of the opening of "Limelight" is aural bliss at its most emotional. Now its gone.

 

Some people have NO clue. And I'm P***ED.

 

Ged's tone on Limelight (especially during the guitar solo as well) has been my ultimate benchmark tone for YEARS....just a perfect combination of midrange, distortion, attack, "singy-ness" and thickness...and while its still recognizable, its definitely been toned down. Its buried, with more 40hz added, the midrange attack has been softened, reverb has been added, the digital clipping extra loud maxed out volume squashes everything, and surprisingly Alex's guitar tone is bordering on the mushiness associated with Rio and R30. Its gotta be HARD to purposely destroy such a great sounding recording.

 

I always preferred the hard, "in your face" sound of the VHS ESL to the original CD's since the CD, while great, was a bit sterile. The VHS was more substantial, similar to All the World's A Stage. But, no more.

 

At least we know for sure now who is resposible for the murky muddy mixes of Rush's output for the last several years...Alex. People hold him up to be a god and praise his audio work ONLY because "Alex did it", but people with open minds will realize that the best aspects of the sound of the original Terry Brown classic mix have been digitized, reverb-ized, 90's-ized, and absolutely murdered.

 

Well, I don't mean to imply that it sounds AS BAD as say, Rush in Rio, but the characteristics are absolutely there, the most prominent being the mud and the sizzly digital clipping. Even my mom (I'm visiting her as she recently had a stroke) said while walking past the TV, "That doesn't sound too good, its all jumbled up...there's no clarity." Which further illustrates the point, since ALL Terry Brown Rush mixes are notable for the absolute clarity and definition of all instruments, lack of mud, "in your face" dryness, 70's thickness, and of course not the slightest hint of digital clipping Pro-Tools distortion.

 

I mean c'mon...if most people here found out that say, "Hemispheres" was going to be remastered, they would absolutely cry "HERESY!!!!!!!" But, if they found out that Alex was remastering it, suddenly you'd read posts such as, "The new mix is great...Alex did a great job...you can hear everything better...the new mix rocks" just because ALEX did it (ie, ruined it).

 

YOU DON'T F*** WITH CLASSIC RECORDINGS MADE BY ONE OF THE BEST ENGINEERS OF ALL TIME. BTW, the Grace Under Pressure video was the last mix that Broon did for Rush. Guess it wasn't good enough for old Alex. Would you trust Ringo to remaster George Martin's work on Abbey Road or Sgt. Pepper's??? I think not. They tried that by ridding "Let It Be" of Phil Spector's mix and re-releasing "Let It Be...Naked" and it totally sucked. But of course there are the idiots out there who love it because they are subliminally told to by their lack of their own ability to articulate, judge, and observe.

 

The video quality of ESL is not good. Not nearly as good as an original VHS copy. It is FULL of artifacts due to the DVD format trying to compress a subpar original. The problem with the DVD format is that when you try to encode a "grainy" analog signal without first cleaning up the analog source, the DVD compression algorithms "don't know" what to do as they can't differentiate the graininess, which leads to mosquito noise and blocking wherever the original exhibited the slightest bit of grain. VHS resolution by its very nature however hides this, and the grain is not noticed...for analog graininess merely shows up as smears, whereas the DVD format transfers the "smeariness" to digital blocks. But, its VERY bad on ESL...some pictures actually turn cartoonish, similar to "Max Headroom" from the early 80's. If you have a DVD recorder and have ever set it to record at any setting longer than 2 hours, then you have an exact idea of what this DVD looks like. I'm absolutely sure that if you had an original good condition VHS of this show and recorded it at XP or SP onto a stand-alone DVD recorder you'd get absolutely 100 percent better video AND audio quality (due to the original mix and the ability to record uncompressed PCM in XP mode on DVD recorders). As a matter of fact, I will do this with my original copy and get rid of this remaster because I hate it with a passion. Everything I loved about the original has obviously been discarded, and the sad part is that those responsible for the production of this DVD don't even know what those qualities were that made the original a classic milestone.

 

If you think my point is a TAD overblown, that is understandable due to some peoples lack of perception detail and furthermore some people's mentality that they just don't care. BUT, if you can't HEAR my point (as it is painfully obvious at first listen) then please post an intelligent response rather than, "Alex's mix rocks" or "I love the new audio mix" as it clearly illustrates a lack of appreciation or realization of the genious of the audio SOUND of Rush's recordings through 1982.

 

My point is to capture and PRESERVE the ORIGINAL tone, whether I "liked" it or not. I, personally, like the flatter, less distorted tone of the original; while not Alex's "best" tone (subjective) as it is a bit processed, it was what it was, and fits the era perfectly. I find it unacceptable to all of the sudden have a more modern guitar sound inserted in such an old classic recording. While I'm not saying that the guitar sound on ESL is NEARLY as much of a downstep as everything else in the mix, I believe its the added digital clipping overload sizzle that makes the guitar sound more buzzy. For instance, if someone prefers the sound of say, a Peavey 5150 guitar amp from a death metal band in the late 90's (I don't personally, but it has its PLACE for some types of music) that does NOT mean you should digitally remix Alex's guitar from 1981 through said Peavey 5150 amp because you "like its tone better".

 

Recordings of the 70's were notable because they captured the original sound of actual bands, even while thickening and fattening up the overall mix during mastering and mixing. It was difficult to actually ruin stuff no matter how flat the final outcome might have been from some bands. But, you could ALWAYS tell what the original guitaritsts' or bassists' tones SOUNDED like as if you were actually there. Nowadays, the idea of preserving the original tones of the instruments and amps has been thrown out the window (hell, Geddy doesn't even USE an amp anymore) since everything is recorded, altered, and usually, destroyed by someone who hasn't a clue with a computer.

 

I think Alex honestly can't HEAR the digital sizzling clipping. Like Vapor Trails, it is as LOUD or LOUDER than the music itself. Another thing...the cymbals are so massively digitally overloaded that they are indistinct and completely overpowering. Or, try this...take your SPDIF digital output from your DVD player and run it into a standalone minidisc deck (too bad those never really caught on) or a CD recorder and look at the input levels...even with settings at unity gain (0 db) they are PEGGED at "overload" with NO variation whatsoever. (At my parents' house one of the DVD players digital output feeds the MD recorder directly.) You have to back off nearly 10 dB (!!!!) before the "overload" indicator goes out. I have a little portable 12volt TV/DVD combo that won't even PLAY the Replay, R30, or Rio discs because of the massive overloading....the speakers start to actually RATTLE at ANY volume because of the inherent digital clipping; it just can't handle it for some reason.

 

But, to the original point regarding Alex's guitar sound. I HATE his tone since Vapor Trails. Listen to his tone on "Limelight" on Rio. You cannot GET any worse than that. Sounds like a completely blown up solid state amp with holes in the speakers with the cabinet turned toward a giant wall of pillowcases filled with wet flour. Alex USED to be the master of definition with complex chords played with tons of distortion while still being distinct. He is now the polar opposite. So, while I prefer a more ATWAS type of "in your face" full, thick guitar tone, I wouldn't want ESL to be remixed with that tone because my overall point is to PRESERVE THE ORIGINAL TONE with the UTMOST CLARITY.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with people that say that losing Geddy's BEST Rick tone and Neils classic warm snare sound is acceptable to get a more modern subjectively "better" guitar tone. Stupid.

 

The sound of these DVD's completely exemplifies my thinking of modern recording techniques and the destruction of the art form of thick/punchy/fat/dry/realistic recordings. But, more and more bands (even if you don't like the bands or music) are getting the SOUND of the recordings better in regards to dryness and LACK of emptiness such as QOTSA's "Songs For The Deaf" or Norah Jones' "Come Away With Me" (a different type of music, but recorded GREAT), or The Mars Volta's "Francis the Mute". These recordings are at least dry and "in your face", even if you hate the music. At least a minor step in the right direction.

 

I'm still saddened and disheartened by the destruction of ESL, and discouraged by some people who are ignorant to the fact of how horrendous these concerts are mixed. Its so simple to hear when doing a comparison...but, first things first. I've never said to NOT get Replay. Yes, its good and cheap, its packaged decently (although I hate the discarding of the original artwork on the box, but hey....the powers that be that produced this couldn't give a F* about that) and overall, just for the sake that it is early Rush, its worth it. Especially for those too lazy to find good original copies of the original versions.

 

I just tried to rewatch these DVD's today. I could stomach GUP, but the immense full bandwidth distortion is appalling. I honestly don't like mixes like the original "Show of Hands" due to the late 80's style of massive reverb and an overall 'emptiness" but what amazes me about the DVD is the fact that they were able to make it about 100 times WORSE. I mean, although I LOVE Geddy's (original) recorded Rick tone, I always liked the snappy twangy in your face Wal tone as well. Well, needless to say, on SoH it is GONE as well. How can you bury something so effectively? I mean, its HARD to create a mishmosh of noise out of an originally clear recording (even if it was reverb-y and empty). I nearly couldn't stand it. Neil does a drum roll, and you can't make out what he's doing. The bass parts to "Time Stand Still" and "Territories" used to slam in your face. Now they are a rumbly reverby hard to hear mess. I hate it. Not to mention the intense cluttered buzzing distortion on EVERYTHING. I won't watch this DVD again.

 

Then, I tried to watch ESL again. I couldn't stand it. So distorted, only a faint distant whisper of Geddy's Rick, immense distortion, and the worst snare sound I've heard from ANYTHING in the 80's.

 

Listen to "Red Barchetta" on Chronicles if you don't have an original ESL VHS tape...beautiful, thick, punchy, in your face dry snare drum. It sounds like a DRUM. Then, listen to the new version. The snare sounds like its off down a hall through a tunnel by itself. Its all thin and crispy. When Neil does the roll right after "adrenaline surge" you cannot even HEAR what he's doing; the sound of the rolls on the snare are simply covered up with mud. HOW CAN ANYONE PREFER THIS???? This concert sounds almost as bad as RIO...I mean, if they can take a masterpiece like ESL and make it sound as bad as RIO...what's to stop us from assuming that standing on stage with Rush when they filmed R30 didn't sound 100 times better than the DVD??? If they can make ESL sound terrible then the master tapes of RIO's raw tracks can be made to sound great. Of course, not by Alex.

 

And also, don't give me this crap of "They didn't have good audio technology then." This is such a misinformed idiotic cop-out that when someone says it you can instantly realize that you can't give them any credible debate. The originals sound great (well, maybe not SoH as it was mixed in an era when reverb was "in" but its still not an injustice) and no one ever complained about the sound of the ESL or GUP videos. EVERY recording of Rush through 1984 sounds better than ANYTHING they did afterward recording-wise. So don't go on the rants about the technology being better. Sure, its EASIER now....easier to F**K UP. But, it was HARD to make a recording sound bad in the 70's and early 80's.

 

And to those who have told me in the past to "lighten up"...there have only been about 10 major emotional moving musical moments in my life that I will go to my grave with. When I think of my handful of favorite bands and "moments", the opening of "Limelight" on the original mix of ESL with that Rick tone has always been one of them. To have it viciously murdered with no respect or realization of the genius of the original sound of the recording, only to be replaced with what most here agree is a TERRIBLE sounding recording/mixing style (RIO and Vapor Trails "Wall of Mud" style) just kills me. And then to have Rush fans SUPPORT it, well, it just makes me real sad."

 

Damn!

 

I actually agree with a lot of this. (Who knew?) More often than not I'll reach for the originals over Replay X3 myself.

[WorkingAllTheTime]

I agree Terry Brown deserves all the love he gets for his work with the band (but also understand why the band went in a different direction when they did). At the same time, I think some folks often overlook the fact that Brown - as talented as he is - had a significant ace up his sleeve to help him along in the Le Studio era... the SSL console. It was a masterpiece, particularly for the analog era. That board was, in many ways, a fourth member of the band. That board had a unique, distinct, richness of sound that I don't think will ever be replicated.

[Supersyl]

I agree Terry Brown deserves all the love he gets for his work with the band (but also understand why the band went in a different direction when they did). At the same time, I think some folks often overlook the fact that Brown - as talented as he is - had a significant ace up his sleeve to help him along in the Le Studio era... the SSL console. It was a masterpiece, particularly for the analog era. That board was, in many ways, a fourth member of the band. That board had a unique, distinct, richness of sound that I don't think will ever be replicated.

 

Yes... Le Studio was probably the best recording studio in the world back then.... Certainly more so than Alex's or Geddy's computer.... That console is still in existence somewhere, but I forget where......... Sadly Le Studio has been long abandoned..... Haven't been there in a few years, I must go before they tear it down......

[WorkingAllTheTime]

I agree Terry Brown deserves all the love he gets for his work with the band (but also understand why the band went in a different direction when they did). At the same time, I think some folks often overlook the fact that Brown - as talented as he is - had a significant ace up his sleeve to help him along in the Le Studio era... the SSL console. It was a masterpiece, particularly for the analog era. That board was, in many ways, a fourth member of the band. That board had a unique, distinct, richness of sound that I don't think will ever be replicated.

 

Yes... Le Studio was probably the best recording studio in the world back then.... Certainly more so than Alex's or Geddy's computer.... That console is still in existence somewhere, but I forget where......... Sadly Le Studio has been long abandoned..... Haven't been there in a few years, I must go before they tear it down......

 

I think it is at Sound City in California.... but that is me thinking without the benefit of Google. There's a great video story of Le Studio called The Temple of Sound on YouTube (but you may already know that). It spends quite a bit of time on the console and its value to the band, as well as how revolutionary Le Studio was.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get the value of digital music... portability, cost, overall clarity, etc. But I am definitely an analog kid. I miss the growl of the old Le Studio albums (especially in Geddy's bass work on those albums). The Police did their overdubs for Synchronicity there, as well, and you can hear some of the distinction of that board in that album.

 

If I ever win the lottery (that would be a miracle since I don't play it), I would buy a minor league baseball team and try to buy the Le Studio and renovate it into a vacation home. Partly for preservation, but also partly for bragging rights. I mean, think about it, if you could say "You think *you* are a Rush fan? Moving Pictures was recorded in my freaking living room!" you would most definitely be king of the fandom mountain. :)

Edited August 20, 2014 by WorkingAllTheTime