What Was The Last Tour Rush Did With No Samples?

[presto123]

I was just thinking how cool it would be to see Rush play without all the bells and whistles. No multi-Geddy's, no backing vocal tracks, no sequencers, no choirs or strings. Didn't someone say once that even some guitar has been sampled in the past? I thought Alex's guitar went out once and people said there was still some guitar going on? I can't imagine that. Anyhoo...........what do you thing the last tour was without use of any kind of sample?

[Slack jaw gaze]

I was just thinking how cool it would be to see Rush play without all the bells and whistles.

Listening to 20-something songs with a bunch of missing parts doesn't seem too interesting to me.

[presto123]

I was just thinking how cool it would be to see Rush play without all the bells and whistles.

Listening to 20-something songs with a bunch of missing parts doesn't seem too interesting to me.

 

Obviously I didn't mean for a whole tour or even a big show. I would love to hear them do a stripped down thing at a small venue. Not going to happen but it would be cool. Obviously the set list would have to change as well. Lots of older stuff that Ged can't sing anymore:) I do think they have become a little too dependent on samples though. I seem to recall there are keyboard parts that Geddy could play on some songs that he just samples instead now days.(Camera Eye is good example) Also....if it's true they use guitar samples I think that's going too far as well.

Edited August 17, 2013 by presto123

[sdhonda]

Um, probably their first tour dude, depending on how much you stretch the definition of samples.

 

Certainly by the 2112 tour, they had the intro sample and "we have assumed control" at the end, plus the Necromancer narraration.

[presto123]

Um, probably their first tour dude, depending on how much you stretch the definition of samples.

 

Certainly by the 2112 tour, they had the intro sample and "we have assumed control" at the end, plus the Necromancer narraration.

 

Not counting stuff like that. Instrumentation or vocals. I think MP or Signals was probably the first time. Songs like Camera Eye and definitely The Weapon.

[HalfwayToGone]

I don't think they got into sampling as we know it today until GUP or maybe even Power Windows. That's when the whole digital synth and digital sampling era started. Signals was the last album and tour before Neil started using the Simmons electronic drums for the first time—I think the Radio City shows before GUP was released were the first live shows Neil used the Simmons drums. But I'm not sure if sampling was really going on or they were still just using the synth sounds that were built into the synths. They may have started using sequencers by then, but I'm pretty sure Power Windows was the first record where they really started using sampled keyboard and drum sounds—the song Big Money is the first Rush song that I can think of with obviously sampled keyboard sounds. I suppose there could be some little sampled sounds on GUP, maybe on Distant Early Warning for example. The very first high profile use of keyboard sampling that I recall was Yes/Owner Of A Lonely Heart which came out in '83, maybe after Signals or around the same time. Edited August 17, 2013 by HalfwayToGone

[Nate1647]

Actually flat out sampling didn't happen until Power Windows. Everything before that was either played or sequenced. Also, an example of sequenced guitar would be Far Cry, during the solo. Personally, I love the sampling, and watching the stage dance is so awesome. As an avid drummer and bassist, learning and playing the parts is hard enough. When I recreate the sampled parts and think about firing them off on the pedals/keys/pads at just the right time, it really does complicate things. So many people think its Rush just taking the easy road out, but it couldn't be more opposite. It's ridiculously hard, and makes them that much more unique.

[Supersyl]

I'm still surprised every tour to see Geddy actually PLAY Subdivisions.... On the TM Tour Marathon was mostly a one finger trigger, as was The Camera Eye, and DEW in recent tours... All songs Geddy USED to play.. I'm not against samples and triggers, as Nate says, I'm also a drummer, and bass/guitar/keyboard player... So I understand "The Dance"... But I always wonder why Geddy could play them (The regular keyboard parts, chords, etc...) before, and not now.... That seems a bit lazy to me.... The guitar samples are just a side effect of the last 3 records... 100 guitar tracks cut down to one in a live setting would make the song pretty empty... Unlike popular belief, Rush has stopped being a 3 man band a long time ago... Their last 3 records sound more like a 100 men band (Didn't Alex say he layered his guitar 100 times on the opening riff of BU2B????--plus the piano player on The Garden

—Why couldn't Geddy do that on the album??) And now most of his "solos" have 2 or 3 rhythm guitars strumming underneath... Even at the end of 7 Cities, he played 2 guitars, so he could strum the rhythm guitar underneath his solo... BUT I was proud he did that instead of a sample! That reminded me of good ol' Rush!!!

Edited August 17, 2013 by Supersyl

[ZachenFoot]

But I always wonder why Geddy could play them (The regular keyboard parts, chords, etc...) before, and not now.... That seems a bit lazy to me....

 

He's also 60 years old playing 28 songs a night for 80 shows a tour.

[Supersyl]

But I always wonder why Geddy could play them (The regular keyboard parts, chords, etc...) before, and not now.... That seems a bit lazy to me....

 

He's also 60 years old playing 28 songs a night for 80 shows a tour.

 

So?? He can't play a D Chord on a keyboard because he's 60?? What about 60 YO classical musicians who play for hours every night? Do they sample and trigger their stuff?? Isn't the point of being a musician to actually PLAY (and SHOW you can play??) Not arguing with you, Zach, just saying.... And NOT against triggers, or anything... It's just an observation.... I've always found the triggers help the show along, but when they start triggering parts they USED to play, that's when Rush stops being Rush... Just my opinion... :cheers:

[Sin City]

And that's why St Louis 1980 is so damned awesome. No samples, no triggers just the 3 guys playing stuff old stylee analog. :D

[ClassicB]

You got that right Sin!

 

Power Windows was definately the time RUSH started using samples. By the time Presto rolled around, the Taurus pedals had been retired (sent to the sample factory) and everything else was sampled. Geddy had some horrible years of trying to reproduce the Mini Moog live (see Hold Your Fire through Counterparts live versions of Tom Sawyer).

 

This is why I love watching the older videos (even ASOH where Geddy is still juggling the Bass, Keys and Taurus).

Edited August 18, 2013 by ClassicB

[GeddysMullet]

But I always wonder why Geddy could play them (The regular keyboard parts, chords, etc...) before, and not now.... That seems a bit lazy to me....

 

He's also 60 years old playing 28 songs a night for 80 shows a tour.

 

So?? He can't play a D Chord on a keyboard because he's 60?? What about 60 YO classical musicians who play for hours every night? Do they sample and trigger their stuff?? Isn't the point of being a musician to actually PLAY (and SHOW you can play??) Not arguing with you, Zach, just saying.... And NOT against triggers, or anything... It's just an observation.... I've always found the triggers help the show along, but when they start triggering parts they USED to play, that's when Rush stops being Rush... Just my opinion... :cheers:

 

I strongly suspect that it's not because he can't play it, but because the gig is more enjoyable for him if he doesn't have to. I personally don't see anything wrong with that. If all Geddy wants to do now is rock hard and have fun and make the audience scream and not worry about whether some fan somewhere thinks that Rush has stopped being Rush because they only challenge themselves to the maximum 97% of the time now instead of 102%, he has certainly earnt that right

[Sin City]

Samples and triggers for "events" isn't a problem, even though it's borderline IMO. Can't agree that it's right to use a sample for a part that could and should be played as part of a performance, like the keyboard bit in the second movement of the camera eye. He doesn't play subdivisions like that, so why play the keys in camera eye like that?

[presto123]

Something else to think about. I LOVE Clockwork Angels and even Vapor Trails but I think it's time for Alex to scale back the guitar again if they do another record. No more gazillion guitar tracks. It will be more "live friendly" and the record will sound better sonically to boot. I remember Rush were once quoted as saying....." when we write....we always keep in mind that we have to perform this live". Time to get back to that. No guitar samples allowed:) Edited August 18, 2013 by presto123

[losingit2k]

Not counting the intro to 2112 Overture, I believe the last Tour they didn't have any samples was on The Signals Tour. Neil was still using his Bell Tree and all acoustic intruments. After that Neil went to Electric Drums for Grace Under Pressure and RUSH went Electronic from there on in. Power Window definately showed much more samples on Keyboards since Geddy didn't write most of them. Now It seems that just about everything that Geddy plays on the Keyboard are samples and triggers. Not complaining at all, I'm fine with what ever it takes for them to put on a show now. The Mind is not the same, hell even Geddy uses a telepromter now to aide in the rememberance of Neil's Awesome lyrics. And thats our RUSH history lesson for today boys and girls.

 

Tommorow's Homework assignment: What Instrument did Neil obtain to replace most of his Acoustic pieces like The Bell Tree and Gong?

[losingit2k]

Samples and triggers for "events" isn't a problem, even though it's borderline IMO. Can't agree that it's right to use a sample for a part that could and should be played as part of a performance, like the keyboard bit in the second movement of the camera eye. He doesn't play subdivisions like that, so why play the keys in camera eye like that?

 

As a keyboardist, the answer is : Its extremely dificult to keep in time playing Open 5th Eigth notes at that mentronome speed (q = 108) on a keyboard. It takes much flexablilty and classic training which Geddy just hasn't have. Additionally, its much easier to just hold one note and allow the sequenced program to play that pattern for you.

 

:codger:

 

Tomorrow's Homework Assignment: Is The Analog Kid easier to play in 6/8 Time or as triplets in 4/4/ time as written?

Edited August 19, 2013 by losingit2k

[presto123]

Samples and triggers for "events" isn't a problem, even though it's borderline IMO. Can't agree that it's right to use a sample for a part that could and should be played as part of a performance, like the keyboard bit in the second movement of the camera eye. He doesn't play subdivisions like that, so why play the keys in camera eye like that?

 

As a keyboardist, the answer is : Its extremely dificult to keep in time playing Open 5th Eigth notes at that mentronome speed (q = 108) on a keyboard. It takes much flexablilty and classic training which Geddy just hasn't have. Additionally, its much easier to just hold one note and allow the sequenced program to play that pattern for you.

 

:codger:

 

Tomorrow's Homework Assignment: Is The Analog Kid easier to play in 6/8 Time or as triplets in 4/4/ time?

 

Where did you get the 6/8 time in Analog Kid? It's pretty straight ahead with a half time 4/4 feel during the chorus. Coming from a drummer perspective anyway.

[losingit2k]

Samples and triggers for "events" isn't a problem, even though it's borderline IMO. Can't agree that it's right to use a sample for a part that could and should be played as part of a performance, like the keyboard bit in the second movement of the camera eye. He doesn't play subdivisions like that, so why play the keys in camera eye like that?

 

As a keyboardist, the answer is : Its extremely dificult to keep in time playing Open 5th Eigth notes at that mentronome speed (q = 108) on a keyboard. It takes much flexablilty and classic training which Geddy just hasn't have. Additionally, its much easier to just hold one note and allow the sequenced program to play that pattern for you.

 

:codger:

 

Tomorrow's Homework Assignment: Is The Analog Kid easier to play in 6/8 Time or as triplets in 4/4/ time?

 

Where did you get the 6/8 time in Analog Kid? It's pretty straight ahead with a half time 4/4 feel during the chorus. Coming from a drummer perspective anyway.

You're a drummer, So for you its straight 4/4 time. But for any guitarist the opening riff is being played in triplets in 4/4 time. Which is the same as 6/8 time if you subdivide the measure or in two. I was just posing the question that which way mentally would it be easier to play the riff. 123,123,123,123 or 123456,123456.

 

But here's a joke for ya:

 

What do you call a guy that hangs out with musicians?......A drummer!

Edited August 19, 2013 by losingit2k

[presto123]

Samples and triggers for "events" isn't a problem, even though it's borderline IMO. Can't agree that it's right to use a sample for a part that could and should be played as part of a performance, like the keyboard bit in the second movement of the camera eye. He doesn't play subdivisions like that, so why play the keys in camera eye like that?

 

As a keyboardist, the answer is : Its extremely dificult to keep in time playing Open 5th Eigth notes at that mentronome speed (q = 108) on a keyboard. It takes much flexablilty and classic training which Geddy just hasn't have. Additionally, its much easier to just hold one note and allow the sequenced program to play that pattern for you.

 

:codger:

 

Tomorrow's Homework Assignment: Is The Analog Kid easier to play in 6/8 Time or as triplets in 4/4/ time?

 

Where did you get the 6/8 time in Analog Kid? It's pretty straight ahead with a half time 4/4 feel during the chorus. Coming from a drummer perspective anyway.

You're a drummer, So for you its straight 4/4 time. But for any guitarist the opening riff is being played in triplets in 4/4 time. Which is the same as 6/8 time if you subdivide the measure or in two. I was just posing the question that which way mentally would it be easier to play the riff. 123,123,123,123 or 123456,123456.

 

But here's a joke for ya:

 

What do you call a guy that hangs out with musicians?......A drummer!

 

 

 

Gotcha!! Could also be counted 1 and 2 and 3 and.......1 and 2 and 3 and.....Can't imagine too many guitarists counting that while they are playing. Like Neil said.....once you learn odd times well....you just feel it. Never got the gist of all those drummer jokes although I do find them funny, but any producer can tell you live and studio alike that great drumming is one thing that can make or break a record or show. That being said:

 

 

How do you get a drummer off your porch?

 

 

 

A: Pay him for the pizza:)

[calirush]

I found this little diddy poking through videos.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mizdzSIXWu0

[dngrDngr]

Look up the Sars concert footage on Youtube. That set was done without triggers/samples so the arrangements are just a little bit different. All the keyboard parts are either played by Geddy directly (hands or feet) but the sequences are still there (the keyboards in the chorus of Spirit). The backing vocals are either not sung at all (like Dreamline) or they are sung by Alex (and, clearly, it's Alex).

 

I'm with the OP.... it would be nice to hear the songs stripped down for a change.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia6MQpN_AtA

[losingit2k]

Samples and triggers for "events" isn't a problem, even though it's borderline IMO. Can't agree that it's right to use a sample for a part that could and should be played as part of a performance, like the keyboard bit in the second movement of the camera eye. He doesn't play subdivisions like that, so why play the keys in camera eye like that?

 

As a keyboardist, the answer is : Its extremely dificult to keep in time playing Open 5th Eigth notes at that mentronome speed (q = 108) on a keyboard. It takes much flexablilty and classic training which Geddy just hasn't have. Additionally, its much easier to just hold one note and allow the sequenced program to play that pattern for you.

 

:codger:

 

Tomorrow's Homework Assignment: Is The Analog Kid easier to play in 6/8 Time or as triplets in 4/4/ time?

 

Where did you get the 6/8 time in Analog Kid? It's pretty straight ahead with a half time 4/4 feel during the chorus. Coming from a drummer perspective anyway.

You're a drummer, So for you its straight 4/4 time. But for any guitarist the opening riff is being played in triplets in 4/4 time. Which is the same as 6/8 time if you subdivide the measure or in two. I was just posing the question that which way mentally would it be easier to play the riff. 123,123,123,123 or 123456,123456.

 

But here's a joke for ya:

 

What do you call a guy that hangs out with musicians?......A drummer!

 

 

 

Gotcha!! Could also be counted 1 and 2 and 3 and.......1 and 2 and 3 and.....Can't imagine too many guitarists counting that while they are playing. Like Neil said.....once you learn odd times well....you just feel it. Never got the gist of all those drummer jokes although I do find them funny, but any producer can tell you live and studio alike that great drumming is one thing that can make or break a record or show. That being said:

 

 

How do you get a drummer off your porch?

 

 

 

A: Pay him for the pizza:)

Nah, that riff pattern goes by way to quick for up beats. I think it should be played as written in triplets in 4/4. but I've seen it in 6/8 as well, which struck me as odd! Oh by the way, you're completely correct sir! A good drummer can take a mediocre band or song and make it great. On the other hand, a great band or song can be taken down by a mediocre drummer. To those, we order !

[losingit2k]

Look up the Sars concert footage on Youtube. That set was done without triggers/samples so the arrangements are just a little bit different. All the keyboard parts are either played by Geddy directly (hands or feet) but the sequences are still there (the keyboards in the chorus of Spirit). The backing vocals are either not sung at all (like Dreamline) or they are sung by Alex (and, clearly, it's Alex).

 

I'm with the OP.... it would be nice to hear the songs stripped down for a change.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia6MQpN_AtA

Dude thanks for posting that was awesome. I've never seen that. It doesn't get anymore stripped down than that. It good to know what RUSH thinks as their meat and potatoes. Great little Set! I can't believe they went into Paint it Black by the Stones! Awesome!

[Nate1647]

Look up the Sars concert footage on Youtube. That set was done without triggers/samples so the arrangements are just a little bit different. All the keyboard parts are either played by Geddy directly (hands or feet) but the sequences are still there (the keyboards in the chorus of Spirit). The backing vocals are either not sung at all (like Dreamline) or they are sung by Alex (and, clearly, it's Alex).

 

I'm with the OP.... it would be nice to hear the songs stripped down for a change.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia6MQpN_AtA

 

Still lots of triggers and samples in there... Notice the pedals? lol