zappafrank Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 13 2012, 07:43 PM) Listening to "Nobody's Hero," and it's always struck me as odd that in the chorus following the final bridge (after the short solo) where Geddy sings "when I heard that you were gone," he doesn't follow it w/"you're nobody's hero" and instead sticks with "he's nobody hero." Carry on! So I guess my original question is moot. Anyway, I'm surprised at a lot of the hate that Counterparts has gotten ITT. I found it to be FAR superior to RtB (to this day, I think the production on RtB absolutely sucks and the album is incredibly weak from a sonic standpoint), and all these years later, I actually think it's one of the band's most refined/mature works, in terms of lyric and sentiments. And although it's been said by others, I'll echo the sentiment that the "sexuality" aspect of Nobody's Hero is incidental to the overall meaning of the song. Yeah, the 1st line is pretty off-kilter in a lot of ways, but if that's all you're focused on, that's missing the obvious point of the song. Listening to CP right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMCXII Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Anyone who thinks the first couple lines are bold or cringeworthy is probably homophobic. They really aren't that bad.. And to the OP: No matter how much you want it to be true, Neil did not write this song for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxster Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 16 2012, 11:45 PM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 13 2012, 07:43 PM) Listening to "Nobody's Hero," and it's always struck me as odd that in the chorus following the final bridge (after the short solo) where Geddy sings "when I heard that you were gone," he doesn't follow it w/"you're nobody's hero" and instead sticks with "he's nobody hero." Carry on! So I guess my original question is moot. Anyway, I'm surprised at a lot of the hate that Counterparts has gotten ITT. I found it to be FAR superior to RtB (to this day, I think the production on RtB absolutely sucks and the album is incredibly weak from a sonic standpoint), and all these years later, I actually think it's one of the band's most refined/mature works, in terms of lyric and sentiments. And although it's been said by others, I'll echo the sentiment that the "sexuality" aspect of Nobody's Hero is incidental to the overall meaning of the song. Yeah, the 1st line is pretty off-kilter in a lot of ways, but if that's all you're focused on, that's missing the obvious point of the song. Listening to CP right now! Ohh, with all the ton-tonfoolery I forgot the point of the thread. I think the "when I heard that you were gone" part is a summation of the he/she parts. It would be pretty presumptuous to paint every listener as nobody's hero. That's my take. Thread, back on track, like Han tracking Luke.. on a ton-ton. Star Wars Nothing but Star Wars Give me those Star Wars Don't let them end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 16 2012, 11:45 PM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 13 2012, 07:43 PM) Listening to "Nobody's Hero," and it's always struck me as odd that in the chorus following the final bridge (after the short solo) where Geddy sings "when I heard that you were gone," he doesn't follow it w/"you're nobody's hero" and instead sticks with "he's nobody hero." Carry on! So I guess my original question is moot. Anyway, I'm surprised at a lot of the hate that Counterparts has gotten ITT. I found it to be FAR superior to RtB (to this day, I think the production on RtB absolutely sucks and the album is incredibly weak from a sonic standpoint), and all these years later, I actually think it's one of the band's most refined/mature works, in terms of lyric and sentiments. And although it's been said by others, I'll echo the sentiment that the "sexuality" aspect of Nobody's Hero is incidental to the overall meaning of the song. Yeah, the 1st line is pretty off-kilter in a lot of ways, but if that's all you're focused on, that's missing the obvious point of the song. Listening to CP right now! Count me in with the Counterparts haters. I agree that the sound of the record is better than Roll The Bones and Presto, but the songs on Roll the Bones were so much stronger, both musically and lyrically. I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. Regarding Counterparts, I believe that fans loved the break-away from the synth and thin sounding earlier records, and loved the sound despite weak songs and cringe-worthy lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 17 2012, 07:44 AM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 16 2012, 11:45 PM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 13 2012, 07:43 PM) Listening to "Nobody's Hero," and it's always struck me as odd that in the chorus following the final bridge (after the short solo) where Geddy sings "when I heard that you were gone," he doesn't follow it w/"you're nobody's hero" and instead sticks with "he's nobody hero." Carry on! So I guess my original question is moot. Anyway, I'm surprised at a lot of the hate that Counterparts has gotten ITT. I found it to be FAR superior to RtB (to this day, I think the production on RtB absolutely sucks and the album is incredibly weak from a sonic standpoint), and all these years later, I actually think it's one of the band's most refined/mature works, in terms of lyric and sentiments. And although it's been said by others, I'll echo the sentiment that the "sexuality" aspect of Nobody's Hero is incidental to the overall meaning of the song. Yeah, the 1st line is pretty off-kilter in a lot of ways, but if that's all you're focused on, that's missing the obvious point of the song. Listening to CP right now! Ohh, with all the ton-tonfoolery I forgot the point of the thread. I think the "when I heard that you were gone" part is a summation of the he/she parts. It would be pretty presumptuous to paint every listener as nobody's hero. That's my take. Thread, back on track, like Han tracking Luke.. on a ton-ton. Star Wars Nothing but Star Wars Give me those Star Wars Don't let them end! Agree on your interpretation of the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappafrank Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:11 AM) I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. Not true at all for me. Again, any misgivings I have about RtB are due to the production and overall step down in energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxster Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 17 2012, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:11 AM) I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. This would make an interesting poll, since I would never guess album sales (they all sold well in those days) or radio play (or the lack thereof) makes any difference in whether a Rush fan likes a Rush album or not. I don't even remember or know how much it was played on radio since my RTB cassette was in my car so much that year. I don't dislike any Rush album, but despite RTB having a few standout tracks (notably Bravado), I find Counterparts the stronger album of the two in practically every way (notable exception being cover art). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 17 2012, 11:56 AM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 17 2012, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:11 AM) I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. This would make an interesting poll, since I would never guess album sales (they all sold well in those days) or radio play (or the lack thereof) makes any difference in whether a Rush fan likes a Rush album or not. I don't even remember or know how much it was played on radio since my RTB cassette was in my car so much that year. I don't dislike any Rush album, but despite RTB having a few standout tracks (notably Bravado), I find Counterparts the stronger album of the two in practically every way (notable exception being cover art). The problem is, nobody would ever admit that the reason they dislike the album is because it got too popular. The production on RTB is similar to Presto, but the songs are stronger. So why does RTB get so much hate while Presto is given a pass (pun intended)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 17 2012, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:11 AM) I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. Not true at all for me. Again, any misgivings I have about RtB are due to the production and overall step down in energy. Step down in energy from Presto and Hold Your Fire? I see a marked increase in energy. And the production isn't great, but it isn't worse than Presto, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBob Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 14 2012, 02:56 AM) I just thought it was a crappy song all around. Spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappafrank Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 01:05 PM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 17 2012, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:11 AM) I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. Not true at all for me. Again, any misgivings I have about RtB are due to the production and overall step down in energy. Step down in energy from Presto and Hold Your Fire? I see a marked increase in energy. And the production isn't great, but it isn't worse than Presto, that's for sure. I love Presto! 1st Rush album I ever got after I kept seeing Show Don't Tell on MTV. RtB gets too much love and Presto gets too much hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomesickAlien Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:54 AM)QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 17 2012, 11:56 AM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 17 2012, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:11 AM) I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. This would make an interesting poll, since I would never guess album sales (they all sold well in those days) or radio play (or the lack thereof) makes any difference in whether a Rush fan likes a Rush album or not. I don't even remember or know how much it was played on radio since my RTB cassette was in my car so much that year. I don't dislike any Rush album, but despite RTB having a few standout tracks (notably Bravado), I find Counterparts the stronger album of the two in practically every way (notable exception being cover art). The problem is, nobody would ever admit that the reason they dislike the album is because it got too popular. That would be a bizarre rationale for disliking Roll the Bones. Many don't like it because it's a mediocre album. Yes, the songs are catchy and accessible, but also uninventive and formulaic. It's a generic pop-rock album, too slick and commercially oriented. Not awful by any means, if you're in the mood for that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shreddy Lee Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 QUOTE (MMCXII @ Oct 17 2012, 04:52 AM) Anyone who thinks the first couple lines are bold or cringeworthy is probably homophobic. They really aren't that bad.. No, that's got nothing to do with it, in my case anyway. I think it's just horribly awkward writing, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micgtr71 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 To me the lyrics are laughable because they fit the melody like a blivit (10 pounds of crap in a 6 pound bag). Who cares what he is singing about, it reminds me of Emily Dickinson. Every time I teach one of her poems I hear the Yellow Rose of Texas as the tune. This song reminds me of this. Here is the melody...fit the words in. I think that The Speed of Love is a bit better of a tune...and I like counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Oct 17 2012, 04:48 PM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:54 AM)QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 17 2012, 11:56 AM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 17 2012, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:11 AM) I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. This would make an interesting poll, since I would never guess album sales (they all sold well in those days) or radio play (or the lack thereof) makes any difference in whether a Rush fan likes a Rush album or not. I don't even remember or know how much it was played on radio since my RTB cassette was in my car so much that year. I don't dislike any Rush album, but despite RTB having a few standout tracks (notably Bravado), I find Counterparts the stronger album of the two in practically every way (notable exception being cover art). The problem is, nobody would ever admit that the reason they dislike the album is because it got too popular. That would be a bizarre rationale for disliking Roll the Bones. Many don't like it because it's a mediocre album. Yes, the songs are catchy and accessible, but also uninventive and formulaic. It's a generic pop-rock album, too slick and commercially oriented. Not awful by any means, if you're in the mood for that sort of thing. I still don't understand what part of the production of RTB could be seen as inferior to Presto, or what part could be inferior songs (less inventive or more furmulaic) than Presto. The lyrics are much better, the songs work as songs, and it got many new fans into Rush, while bringing in casuals who abandoned the group in 1984. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomesickAlien Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 18 2012, 09:05 AM)QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Oct 17 2012, 04:48 PM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:54 AM)QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 17 2012, 11:56 AM) QUOTE (zappafrank @ Oct 17 2012, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Oct 17 2012, 10:11 AM) I firmly believe that Rush fans dislike RTB more than they should because it got so much radio play, and it sold so well after years of declining sales, that they felt that Rush was "selling out" or that Rush wouldn't be their little secret any more. This would make an interesting poll, since I would never guess album sales (they all sold well in those days) or radio play (or the lack thereof) makes any difference in whether a Rush fan likes a Rush album or not. I don't even remember or know how much it was played on radio since my RTB cassette was in my car so much that year. I don't dislike any Rush album, but despite RTB having a few standout tracks (notably Bravado), I find Counterparts the stronger album of the two in practically every way (notable exception being cover art). The problem is, nobody would ever admit that the reason they dislike the album is because it got too popular. That would be a bizarre rationale for disliking Roll the Bones. Many don't like it because it's a mediocre album. Yes, the songs are catchy and accessible, but also uninventive and formulaic. It's a generic pop-rock album, too slick and commercially oriented. Not awful by any means, if you're in the mood for that sort of thing. I still don't understand what part of the production of RTB could be seen as inferior to Presto, or what part could be inferior songs (less inventive or more furmulaic) than Presto. The lyrics are much better, the songs work as songs, and it got many new fans into Rush, while bringing in casuals who abandoned the group in 1984. Presto and Roll the Bones are very similar, and much of the same criticism can be applied to both, but to a lesser degree in the case of the former. Presto is also a bit generic and pop-oriented, but these problems are only magnified on RTB. Again, it's not terrible, and I do listen to it occasionally, but I'd rank it near the bottom of my list. Some people like it, so it's just a matter of personal preference. A lot of people think it sounds "thin", but I don't have a problem with the production. That's a minor complaint compared to the music itself. At least everything was rectified with Counterparts! (your favorite ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappafrank Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) I've got a very fond connection with Presto since it was the 1st Rush album (tape!) I ever bought. I'd just turned 13 when it came out, and I kept seeing Show Don't Tell on MTV. I was seriously getting into music at that point in my life (already having gotten into some metal towards the start of the year, thanks to some 7th grade hooligans ). I was having problems adjusting to a new school, felt lonely, etc etc, and I just remember spending time out and about with my mom at the mall, and it was during one of those trips that I picked up the album based on SDT. So, much of my fondness for the album is rooted in more idyllic times. The next year the bus driver was playing something really cool on the tape player, and when I asked him what it was, he said "Rush, 2112." And here I am today. Edited October 19, 2012 by zappafrank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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