Finally focused solely on the lyrics and story

[internetexplorer]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Jul 14 2012, 07:06 PM)

4. Is the Anarchist being told from the "hero's" point of view or The Anarchist's? 5. In Carnies, Neil/Geddy goes from 3rd person to 1st person. "A Spectacle like he's never seen" Who is "HE"? Then to 1st person with "How I prayed just to get away". Who is "I"?

Re: the anarchist -

the song is partly the anarchist describing himself, his motives etc,

and partly the narrator describing the scene where he throws the bomb to the protagonist (who is then mobbed)

 

Re: carnies -

the song is partly describing the protagonist's feelings as he wanders the carnival, and partly the narrator describing that from third person

[HowItIs]

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jul 16 2012, 06:51 AM)

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jul 16 2012, 02:08 AM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jul 15 2012, 08:24 PM) So once again Neil uses lyrics to explain his personal distaste for religion. Surprised...?   Jeez. Get over it!   This is the first time I've brought it up since the release of the new album, and you tell me to get over it? Talk about complete dismissal of something you don't want to talk about. Was it because I was at least partially right? Nope.   You seem to have a huge problem with the fact that your religion is, as you see it, being dissed. That says a lot more about you than it does about the lyrics.   If you really care you should consider some inner dialogue and introspection as to WHY it bothers you so much. People are often threatened by things they don't understand. I don't think you understand why this bugs you so much that you feel compelled to bring it up at every opportunity.

[An Enemy Without]

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jul 17 2012, 02:49 AM)

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jul 16 2012, 06:51 AM) QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jul 16 2012, 02:08 AM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jul 15 2012, 08:24 PM) So once again Neil uses lyrics to explain his personal distaste for religion. Surprised...?   Jeez. Get over it!   This is the first time I've brought it up since the release of the new album, and you tell me to get over it? Talk about complete dismissal of something you don't want to talk about. Was it because I was at least partially right? Nope.   You seem to have a huge problem with the fact that your religion is, as you see it, being dissed. That says a lot more about you than it does about the lyrics.   If you really care you should consider some inner dialogue and introspection as to WHY it bothers you so much. People are often threatened by things they don't understand. I don't think you understand why this bugs you so much that you feel compelled to bring it up at every opportunity.     Every opportunity? Do you want to see what every opportunity really looks like?

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jul 17 2012, 02:49 AM)

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jul 16 2012, 06:51 AM) QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jul 16 2012, 02:08 AM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jul 15 2012, 08:24 PM) So once again Neil uses lyrics to explain his personal distaste for religion. Surprised...?   Jeez. Get over it!   This is the first time I've brought it up since the release of the new album, and you tell me to get over it? Talk about complete dismissal of something you don't want to talk about. Was it because I was at least partially right? Nope.   You seem to have a huge problem with the fact that your religion is, as you see it, being dissed. That says a lot more about you than it does about the lyrics.   i'm starting to think neil has a huge problem and can't seem to let go of the religion thing. i'd say almost everyone on here thought we were going to get a breath of fresh air with his lyrics but nope, he picks up where he left off with s & a.

[circumstantial tree]

have you ever seen anybody say they are going to leave but never quite do it? A person would wave goodbye while looking at those he is leaving and repeats his goodbyes without looking where he is going or simply looking forward?

 

Maybe "Wish Them Well" puts this issue to rest...finally....with no more goodbyes. He's finally crossed that threshold realizing that not all of us plan on going in his direction.

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Jul 17 2012, 10:23 AM)

Maybe "Wish Them Well" puts this issue to rest...finally....with no more goodbyes. He's finally crossed that threshold realizing that not all of us plan on going in his direction.

it's possible but hard to listen to the song since it sucks.

[circumstantial tree]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 17 2012, 11:25 AM)

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Jul 17 2012, 10:23 AM) Maybe "Wish Them Well" puts this issue to rest...finally....with no more goodbyes. He's finally crossed that threshold realizing that not all of us plan on going in his direction. it's possible but hard to listen to the song since it sucks. I agree with that. It's definitely my least fave on the album.

[GeddyRulz]

[Running Rebel]

[Running Rebel]

I'd also like to comment on the contention over the order Headlong Flight and BU2B etc.

 

HF is the hero retelling the story of his adventures and he is filled with "boundless optimism" over life. Having or maintaining boundless optimism isn't always possible nor pragmatic. Neil himself has mentioned that the wouldn't want to personally "live it all again". Nothing wrong with the extreme optimisistic viewpoint per se, especially on occasion, and good for you if you can do it, but I assume it is partly escaping reality to a degree.

 

And after HF, presumbably when the hero returns from the adventures, the Pedlar (II) does come back and ask him again "what do you lack?" Which leads him to the inner contemplation of BU2B2.

 

ther he realizes what he does lack, that there is no magical solution, no solace in a "clockwork universe". Out of this introspection comes his new mantra, not blind optimism but a pramatic viewpoint on how to live his life.

 

I would also like to comment on the similarity of BU2B2 and when I read about or deal with those who have left a church/cult/sect and the tough process that introspection can be especially with initial depression before coming out of the ether and developing new strategies, or viewpoints that make life seem worthwhile.

 

 

[afortaleza]

Some time ago I wrote (badly written by the way) a text called "A quick take on Rush lyrics", it's here:

 

http://afortaleza.blogspot.com.br/2011/06/...shs-lyrics.html

 

The original idea was to analyze all Rush's lyrics album by album, but then I didn't have the time but the core is there in this quick post.

 

I'll stop an listen to this album following the lyrics and will post here my impressions. It's not of any surprise that Neail Peart has in the "enlightenment" authors a great source of inspiration and I dont think this album will be any different.

 

I was very dissapointed when, on S&A I saw him moving towards the Richard Dawkins' style of victimized and activist atheism. It's not about atheism itself but about the poorness of the neo-atheism arguments and mindset, I expected something better from a classic's reading guy like him.

 

Let's see what this album has to offer.

 

Edited July 18, 2012 by afortaleza

[Apollo]

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 14 2012, 10:27 PM)

Good points - I posted once before that I feel like we've been given a handful of polaroid pictures and have to guess what happened. I think A LOT happens in the story that we don't hear about. I feel like the Headlong Flight is the oddest song - it picks up just after the terrible ordeal of The Wreckers to say "hey, there were good time, bad times, I know I've had my share, (to quote R. Plant) but sure, I'd do it all again - to head right into BU2B2!

It's like someone dropped all the Polaroids and reassembled them out of order and that is why CA has the song order that it does. I think that's what holds CA back from being great to just being pretty good is that the story has no flow at all. I agree with those who say that Halo Effect and Headlong Flight seem particularly out of place. I am curious about the book but I have a feeling it's going to be terrible, I'll wait for some reviews here to judge.

[internetexplorer]

QUOTE (afortaleza @ Jul 18 2012, 03:27 PM)

Some time ago I wrote (badly written by the way) a text called "A quick take on Rush lyrics", it's here: http://afortaleza.blogspot.com.br/2011/06/...shs-lyrics.html The original idea was to analyze all Rush's lyrics album by album, but then I didn't have the time but the core is there in this quick post. I'll stop an listen to this album following the lyrics and will post here my impressions. It's not of any surprise that Neail Peart has in the "enlightenment" authors a great source of inspiration and I dont think this album will be any different. I was very dissapointed when, on S&A I saw him moving towards the Richard Dawkins' style of victimized and activist atheism. It's not about atheism itself but about the poorness of the neo-atheism arguments and mindset, I expected something better from a classic's reading guy like him. Let's see what this album has to offer.

It's important to keep in mind that a lot of the writing on S&A (and even Vapor Trails) was done at a time when the whole world (atheist or otherwise) was suffering because of religious violence and its results (i.e. 9/11 attacks, iraq/afghanistan wars...)

 

There's nothing worse than a born-again atheist, but I think overall Neil is moreso an everday, regular secular humanist. Unfortunately, in 2012 that means being part of the marketing machine of Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher, Neil DeGrasse-Tyson etc.

 

The anti-religious/anti-fatalist themes in Clockwork Angels are largely dedicated to mimicking Candide. It's not that Rush is a purely anti-religious band (Totem comes to mind), but it would definitely be nice to see a focus on human issues without a connection to christianity (a lot of the really old albums like Hemispheres pull this off nicely).

Edited July 18, 2012 by internetexplorer

[Running Rebel]

QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 18 2012, 06:16 PM)

QUOTE (afortaleza @ Jul 18 2012, 03:27 PM) Some time ago I wrote (badly written by the way) a text called "A quick take on Rush lyrics", it's here: http://afortaleza.blogspot.com.br/2011/06/...shs-lyrics.html The original idea was to analyze all Rush's lyrics album by album, but then I didn't have the time but the core is there in this quick post. I'll stop an listen to this album following the lyrics and will post here my impressions. It's not of any surprise that Neail Peart has in the "enlightenment" authors a great source of inspiration and I dont think this album will be any different. I was very dissapointed when, on S&A I saw him moving towards the Richard Dawkins' style of victimized and activist atheism. It's not about atheism itself but about the poorness of the neo-atheism arguments and mindset, I expected something better from a classic's reading guy like him. Let's see what this album has to offer. It's important to keep in mind that a lot of the writing on S&A (and even Vapor Trails) was done at a time when the whole world (atheist or otherwise) was suffering because of religious violence and its results (i.e. 9/11 attacks, iraq/afghanistan wars...)   There's nothing worse than a born-again atheist, but I think overall Neil is moreso an everday, regular secular humanist. Unfortunately, in 2012 that means being part of the marketing machine of Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher, Neil DeGrasse-Tyson etc.   The anti-religious/anti-fatalist themes in Clockwork Angels are largely dedicated to mimicking Candide. It's not that Rush is a purely anti-religious band (Totem comes to mind), but it would definitely be nice to see a focus on human issues without a connection to christianity (a lot of the really old albums like Hemispheres pull this off nicely). QUOTE There's nothing worse than a born-again atheist         OH really. You have them right up there with religous suicide bombers or the televangelists bilking people out of millions of dollars? They are surely much worse than the Westboro Baptists hate mongering.   I mean after all, they promote SCIENCE and RATIONAL THOUGHT.   Arrrrghhhhhhh run for the hills!     It's the born again athiests!   Lookout, he's holding a biology book!

[Gedneil Alpeart]

[Gedneil Alpeart]

QUOTE (Running Rebel @ Jul 17 2012, 02:18 PM)

I'd also like to comment on the contention over the order Headlong Flight and BU2B etc. HF is the hero retelling the story of his adventures and he is filled with "boundless optimism" over life. Having or maintaining boundless optimism isn't always possible nor pragmatic. Neil himself has mentioned that the wouldn't want to personally "live it all again". Nothing wrong with the extreme optimisistic viewpoint per se, especially on occasion, and good for you if you can do it, but I assume it is partly escaping reality to a degree. And after HF, presumbably when the hero returns from the adventures, the Pedlar (II) does come back and ask him again "what do you lack?" Which leads him to the inner contemplation of BU2B2. ther he realizes what he does lack, that there is no magical solution, no solace in a "clockwork universe". Out of this introspection comes his new mantra, not blind optimism but a pramatic viewpoint on how to live his life. I would also like to comment on the similarity of BU2B2 and when I read about or deal with those who have left a church/cult/sect and the tough process that introspection can be especially with initial depression before coming out of the ether and developing new strategies, or viewpoints that make life seem worthwhile.

Fantastic thoughts!!

 

 

 

[Running Rebel]

Edited July 21, 2012 by Running Rebel

[Gedneil Alpeart]

[Gedneil Alpeart]

[Hakky2112]

Good to read the variety of interpretations.

Many echo with me, that is, in a positive/agreed respect.