Overall sound of CA

[Garden Dancer]

On the computer, with really good headphones

Yeah, it could be better.

But really, I'm good with it.

I love it so far, and the sound issues aren't so bad... to me and my ears.

It's good. It could be better, but it's good.

So I'm good with it.

[rushgoober]

It's not perfect, but it's acceptable. Sometimes the issue is just too many layers and overdubs - too much going on to the point that you can't clearly hear everything. In previous eras of Rush, the complexity was in the composition, and it sounded much cleaner and clearer because the complexity wasn't just adding layer upon layer or trying to do a wall of sound type of thing. I definitely prefer the less is more philosophy.

 

There are songs where without a lyric sheet, I'd be completely lost as to what Geddy is singing, like say in The Anarchist, but part of that is the vocal delivery. Other songs, like say Headlong Flight, are far clearer vocally. The mix is better in some places than in others.

 

In some places the instrumentation is pretty clear and I can hear everything, and in other places I struggle to find the bass or all the drum parts through all the layers. I do wish some of the guitar solos were a little more pronounced. For example, yesterday I was listening to their debut album, and the guitar solos, besides being better and longer, were FAR more clear. I definitely prefer more simplicity. With this many layers, the instrument separation has to be REALLY well done, and it's not always as successful as it could or should be.

 

That said, it is what it is (and whatever ), and for what it is, it's still pretty great. It's certainly not Moving Pictures or Counterparts in terms of instrument separation and clarity, but at least it's not VT where it's actually physically painful to listen to.

 

The sound quality isn't the best, but it's good enough. If it were better, the album would just be that much better.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 14 2012, 10:39 AM)

The sound quality isn't the best, but it's good enough. If it were better, the album would just be that much better.

Bingo.

 

I think that last line is exactly what most people discussing the sound issues of CA think.

 

We all know the album is fantastic. A slightly better mix would only make it THAT much better.

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 14 2012, 09:39 AM)

It's not perfect, but it's acceptable. Sometimes the issue is just too many layers and overdubs - too much going on to the point that you can't clearly hear everything. In previous eras of Rush, the complexity was in the composition, and it sounded much cleaner and clearer because the complexity wasn't just adding layer upon layer or trying to do a wall of sound type of thing. I definitely prefer the less is more philosophy. There are songs where without a lyric sheet, I'd be completely lost as to what Geddy is singing, like say in The Anarchist, but part of that is the vocal delivery. Other songs, like say Headlong Flight, are far clearer vocally. The mix is better in some places than in others. In some places the instrumentation is pretty clear and I can hear everything, and in other places I struggle to find the bass or all the drum parts through all the layers. I do wish some of the guitar solos were a little more pronounced. For example, yesterday I was listening to their debut album, and the guitar solos, besides being better and longer, were FAR more clear. I definitely prefer more simplicity. With this many layers, the instrument separation has to be REALLY well done, and it's not always as successful as it could or should be. That said, it is what it is (and whatever ), and for what it is, it's still pretty great. It's certainly not Moving Pictures or Counterparts in terms of instrument separation and clarity, but at least it's not VT where it's actually physically painful to listen to. The sound quality isn't the best, but it's good enough. If it were better, the album would just be that much better.

 

See all you other Trolls can learn from Goober. He can tell you something sucks so elloquently that you want to acknowlege it as fact. There's no profanity, or condensending attitude. He just express his thoughts.

 

This is the way trolling is done!

 

Bravo sir! I applaud your trolling prowess!

 

 

 

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 14 2012, 09:44 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 14 2012, 10:39 AM) The sound quality isn't the best, but it's good enough.  If it were better, the album would just be that much better. Bingo.   I think that last line is exactly what most people discussing the sound issues of CA think.   We all know the album is fantastic. A slightly better mix would only make it THAT much better. Brown nose!

[Rush Cocky]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 14 2012, 10:44 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 14 2012, 10:39 AM) The sound quality isn't the best, but it's good enough.  If it were better, the album would just be that much better. Bingo.   I think that last line is exactly what most people discussing the sound issues of CA think.   We all know the album is fantastic. A slightly better mix would only make it THAT much better. My lone question for Rush & Company regarding the sound is this:   You had at least 6 months after the recording sessions ended to make absolutely sure that the mix was as perfect as possible.   Based on what are some are saying on TRF (and elsewhere I'm sure), the mix is average at best.   With that much time, and with all the effort that went into the lyrics and music for Clockwork Angels, why is this not the best mix ever for a Rush release?

[Gompers]

QUOTE (losingit2k @ Jun 14 2012, 10:48 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 14 2012, 09:39 AM) It's not perfect, but it's acceptable.  Sometimes the issue is just too many layers and overdubs - too much going on to the point that you can't clearly hear everything.  In previous eras of Rush, the complexity was in the composition, and it sounded much cleaner and clearer because the complexity wasn't just adding layer upon layer or trying to do a wall of sound type of thing.  I definitely prefer the less is more philosophy. There are songs where without a lyric sheet, I'd be completely lost as to what Geddy is singing, like say in The Anarchist, but part of that is the vocal delivery.  Other songs, like say Headlong Flight, are far clearer vocally.  The mix is better in some places than in others. In some places the instrumentation is pretty clear and I can hear everything, and in other places I struggle to find the bass or all the drum parts through all the layers.  I do wish some of the guitar solos were a little more pronounced.  For example, yesterday I was listening to their debut album, and the guitar solos, besides being better and longer, were FAR more clear.  I definitely prefer more simplicity.  With this many layers, the instrument separation has to be REALLY well done, and it's not always as successful as it could or should be.  That said, it is what it is (and whatever ), and for what it is, it's still pretty great.  It's certainly not Moving Pictures or Counterparts in terms of instrument separation and clarity, but at least it's not VT where it's actually physically painful to listen to. The sound quality isn't the best, but it's good enough.  If it were better, the album would just be that much better.   See all you other Trolls can learn from Goober. He can tell you something sucks so elloquently that you want to acknowlege it as fact. There's no profanity, or condensending attitude. He just express his thoughts.   This is the way trolling is done!   Bravo sir! I applaud your trolling prowess!   There has been a position explained here that continues to be unaccepted by you; that you can have a position of critiquing Rush and not be a troll. Goobs post in no way is trolling.   Funny how other things are not accepted. I see a pattern.

[Gompers]

[EmotionDetector]

[marblesmike]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 14 2012, 10:44 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 14 2012, 10:39 AM) The sound quality isn't the best, but it's good enough.  If it were better, the album would just be that much better. Bingo.   I think that last line is exactly what most people discussing the sound issues of CA think.   We all know the album is fantastic. A slightly better mix would only make it THAT much better. Exactly.

[EmotionDetector]

[EmotionDetector]

[Rush Cocky]

[Gompers]

[marblesmike]

[Rush Cocky]

QUOTE (marblesmike @ Jun 14 2012, 11:03 AM)

QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 10:59 AM) According to some, with the way it's mixed, it's like serving the world's best gourmet food on a styrofoam plate. As for me personally, I can't hear these things, but I have to imagine that there are people in Rush's camp who do! So why wasn't it fully addressed if that be the case? Because a lot of times musicians aren't the ones who pick up on this stuff. In most cases it is the role of a competent producer/engineer to pick up on this present them with a polished product. Unfortunately, a lot of contemporary producers/engineers are simply following the latest industry standard of mixing things to sound good on laptop speakers and ear buds (and general portability), not necessarily for hi-fi like it would have been 25 years ago. I disagree that Rush is that careless and univolved when it comes to the presentation of their hard work.

[circumstantial tree]

I don't have a problem with the sound, but I have the turn the volume much farther down than usual.

[rushgoober]

Edited June 14, 2012 by rushgoober

[marblesmike]

QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 11:23 AM)

QUOTE (marblesmike @ Jun 14 2012, 11:03 AM) QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 10:59 AM) According to some, with the way it's mixed, it's like serving the world's best gourmet food on a styrofoam plate. As for me personally, I can't hear these things, but I have to imagine that there are people in Rush's camp who do! So why wasn't it fully addressed if that be the case? Because a lot of times musicians aren't the ones who pick up on this stuff. In most cases it is the role of a competent producer/engineer to pick up on this present them with a polished product. Unfortunately, a lot of contemporary producers/engineers are simply following the latest industry standard of mixing things to sound good on laptop speakers and ear buds (and general portability), not necessarily for hi-fi like it would have been 25 years ago. I disagree that Rush is that careless and univolved when it comes to the presentation of their hard work. I'm just stating the truth. Go on industry message boards and read about it. It's not true in every case and of course I don't know exactly how Rush handles things.

[marblesmike]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Jun 14 2012, 11:26 AM)

I don't have a problem with the sound, but I have the turn the volume much farther down than usual.

That's a symptom of the loudness wars. Same here.

[Animate]

Post 2000 "New Rush" sound and production such as CA has produced a fuller, more lush and complex sound compared to 80s and 90s Rush.

 

But yes, the overall noise level is quite high.

 

Personally, I really prefer this full sound to the sometimes staccato and brittle sounds of GUP, PowW, and HYF. I also prefer it to the "similar but thinner" sounds of CP and T4E. But I don't really prefer it to the "heavy but clean" classic 70's hard rock sound.

 

 

The thought has crossed my mind that this thick sound might, in part because they have become desensitized to some extent. Their own hearing has to be impacted, in some way, from listening to loud music for over 40 years. Maybe, they need this louder, heavier, fuller sound now because it takes more of a sound for them to get the same musical "fix" that a more stripped down sound had before?

 

 

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 11:23 AM)

QUOTE (marblesmike @ Jun 14 2012, 11:03 AM) QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 10:59 AM) According to some, with the way it's mixed, it's like serving the world's best gourmet food on a styrofoam plate. As for me personally, I can't hear these things, but I have to imagine that there are people in Rush's camp who do! So why wasn't it fully addressed if that be the case? Because a lot of times musicians aren't the ones who pick up on this stuff. In most cases it is the role of a competent producer/engineer to pick up on this present them with a polished product. Unfortunately, a lot of contemporary producers/engineers are simply following the latest industry standard of mixing things to sound good on laptop speakers and ear buds (and general portability), not necessarily for hi-fi like it would have been 25 years ago. I disagree that Rush is that careless and univolved when it comes to the presentation of their hard work. I agree with you here.   Some bands might not be as involved in the final product once their music is recorded, but Rush is NOT one of those bands. They are in it from beginning to end.   They are devoted to putting the best product out there that they possibly can...I firmly believe that.

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 14 2012, 10:40 AM)

QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 11:23 AM) QUOTE (marblesmike @ Jun 14 2012, 11:03 AM) QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 10:59 AM) According to some, with the way it's mixed, it's like serving the world's best gourmet food on a styrofoam plate. As for me personally, I can't hear these things, but I have to imagine that there are people in Rush's camp who do! So why wasn't it fully addressed if that be the case? Because a lot of times musicians aren't the ones who pick up on this stuff. In most cases it is the role of a competent producer/engineer to pick up on this present them with a polished product. Unfortunately, a lot of contemporary producers/engineers are simply following the latest industry standard of mixing things to sound good on laptop speakers and ear buds (and general portability), not necessarily for hi-fi like it would have been 25 years ago. I disagree that Rush is that careless and univolved when it comes to the presentation of their hard work. I agree with you here.   Some bands might not be as involved in the final product once their music is recorded, but Rush is NOT one of those bands. They are in it from beginning to end.   They are devoted to putting the best product out there that they possibly can...I firmly believe that. So why would you think that what we are listening to isn't the best that they could have produced?

[Del_Duio]

I would like to preface these comments by saying that I am a huge fan of this record and story and what the boys have accomplished. The song "Clockwork Angels" is probably one of their top 5 songs with me, and holy shit is that saying something with a catalog as extensive as RUSH's

 

 

I think it sounds pretty good overall, but there's "mud" in the mix.

 

I don't know if it's a mixing thing, but I can't make out a ton of Geddy's words when he sings. Too bad there's no such thing as an "Annunciator 2000".

 

Some of the keyboards in Caravan are distracting in places (during some of the verses I think) even though I love the fact that they're using them again.

 

If the Peddlar was to ask me: "What do all the songs on CA lack, except for Caravan and BU2B?" I would answer that Neil's snare is lacking the certain "snap!" of those first 2 songs. I know they were recorded separately so maybe it wasn't possible to get it all sounding exactly the same.

 

Some of Neil's toms are almost invisble in the final mix. For example, I've heard The Anarchist about 10 times yet when I listened to it again with a sound system with a lot of bottom end last night there's a lot of extra tom hits he's doing at the beginning of that song. It's really impressive, I just wish you could hear all that stuff normally.

 

And as awesome as even the mighty Garden is, I think when the elecrtic guitar(s?) come in during the first pre chorus they are almost too loud when compared to the acoustic guitar at the start.

[marblesmike]

QUOTE (losingit2k @ Jun 14 2012, 11:47 AM)

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 14 2012, 10:40 AM) QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 11:23 AM) QUOTE (marblesmike @ Jun 14 2012, 11:03 AM) QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 14 2012, 10:59 AM) According to some, with the way it's mixed, it's like serving the world's best gourmet food on a styrofoam plate. As for me personally, I can't hear these things, but I have to imagine that there are people in Rush's camp who do! So why wasn't it fully addressed if that be the case? Because a lot of times musicians aren't the ones who pick up on this stuff. In most cases it is the role of a competent producer/engineer to pick up on this present them with a polished product. Unfortunately, a lot of contemporary producers/engineers are simply following the latest industry standard of mixing things to sound good on laptop speakers and ear buds (and general portability), not necessarily for hi-fi like it would have been 25 years ago. I disagree that Rush is that careless and univolved when it comes to the presentation of their hard work. I agree with you here.   Some bands might not be as involved in the final product once their music is recorded, but Rush is NOT one of those bands. They are in it from beginning to end.   They are devoted to putting the best product out there that they possibly can...I firmly believe that. So why would you think that what we are listening to isn't the best that they could have produced?   Because an artistic vision can sometimes get in the way of what might be technically best. It happens all the time. Not to mention that as much as we love the Holy Trinity, they are not perfect and can make mistakes. After all, this is the same band that put out VT.