CA vs Counterparts

[SlyJeff]

Well, "vs" isn't the right word, but I've been thinking a lot about HF and where it fits into the Rush spectrum for me. Unlike some, I think it's a great tune, but kind of average for Rush. I don't think it's a song I'll single out in the long term, but I probably won't skip it.

 

The tune this is most like for me is "Stick it Out". I think that one is also great, but I rarely specifically put it on and there are many much better Rush songs. And then that comparison got me thinking- both songs are a lot more agressive than the previous album with a harder edge, and both were singles I think should have some appeal to the rock crowd.

 

Now, in both cases I think there are better songs on the album. I might be one of the few, but I think Caravan is stunning- a great Rush tune that stands alongside some of their best. Analogous to "Animate", which I also think is a top-their Rush song (well, probably second teir). Between the two, I really like Caravan a lot better than Animate, but they are both really great tunes, even for Rush.

 

Which leaves BU2B, which is analogous to "Cut to the Chase"- an album cut, but just a really great Rush tune.

 

So here's the thing- bith albums (as much as we can tell about CA) appear to have a much harder edge than their predecessor. A lot of people are excited about the new tunes and blown away by the energy, but I can remember the feeling I got the moment I heart the opening drums to "Animate"- I was blown away by the new sound and drive (which doesn't come off live on that song, but that's beside the point). At any rate, I ask myself this, if after hearing RtB I was given three tracks off of Counterparts: Animate, CttC, and SiO, I would have been pretty much ready to pronounce Counterparts as a return to form for the band- an album that equaled some of the classic stuff. Yet I'd have been wrong- I do think it's solid, but nowhere near the epic I'd have thought from just hearing those three songs.

 

Now perhaps CA wil be different. There's a lot of evidence it will be, especially since the first two songs weren't cherry picked from a full album just to showcase the best. Still, I'm trying hard to find ways to lower my expectations because they are really,really running high right now.

 

I just want to remember that yeah these songs are great and rocking, but they are only a part of the album and we shouldn't make too many assumptions. I wish I believed that

[thirteen]

Based on the 3 songs I've heard so far, I still like Counter Parts more than Clockwork Angels (I love the Counter Parts mix) but who knows how that may change after CA is released?

[presto123]

Totally disagree SlyJeff. Stick It Out is nothing like Headlong Flight. Stick it out is basically a pretty straight ahead catchy rocker not really showing too much musicianship.(by Rush standards anyway) Headlong Flight is a prog like tour de force featuring some of the best playing(and most classic like) we have heard from the boys in ages. CA > Counterparts for me so far.

[snowdog2112]

There's just not enough info yet to compare but I will say this, I certainly haven't heard any more of CA than anyone else here but I think that expecting all of CA to be like the songs we've heard is a mistake. We've heard there are keyboards on it and we know there will be strings for at least some songs and Geddy has said things in the past like:

 

We're having fun with it...there are some very complex moments. There are some very beautiful moments. It's kind of what you'd expect from Rush I guess - a little bit of everything. Now the indication you can get from the first 2 songs kind of sets the tone for where we're going with this record. But there are a few surprises as you get deeper into the record." - Geddy Lee, UK's 106.1 Rock Radio, March 30, 2011

 

I'm actually hoping there's a lot of variety on the record with some really neat orchestral stuff to balance out the heaviness but I think some fans have already gotten it into their heads that this is going to be some all-out super-heavy rock record from beginning to end. I just don't see that. And I may be in the minority but I hope it's not just heavy power chords for 66 minutes.

[eshine]

I can see some similiarities in production, but other then that I see no correlation between what we have heard from CA so far and Counterparts.

[presto123]

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:44 PM)

There's just not enough info yet to compare but I will say this, I certainly haven't heard any more of CA than anyone else here but I think that expecting all of CA to be like the songs we've heard is a mistake. We've heard there are keyboards on it and we know there will be strings for at least some songs and Geddy has said things in the past like: We're having fun with it...there are some very complex moments. There are some very beautiful moments. It's kind of what you'd expect from Rush I guess - a little bit of everything. Now the indication you can get from the first 2 songs kind of sets the tone for where we're going with this record. But there are a few surprises as you get deeper into the record." - Geddy Lee, UK's 106.1 Rock Radio, March 30, 2011 I'm actually hoping there's a lot of variety on the record with some really neat orchestral stuff to balance out the heaviness but I think some fans have already gotten it into their heads that this is going to be some all-out super-heavy rock record from beginning to end. I just don't see that. And I may be in the minority but I hope it's not just heavy power chords for 66 minutes.

We already know there will be at least SOME melodic stuff on there. Alex said late in the writing process some stuff more on the melodic side came into play. Anybody else find it interesting that Headlong Flight was the last track to make the record yet was released as a single? That bodes well to me

[snowdog2112]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Apr 25 2012, 07:44 PM)

Totally disagree SlyJeff. Stick It Out is nothing like Headlong Flight. Stick it out is basically a pretty straight ahead catchy rocker not really showing too much musicianship.(by Rush standards anyway) Headlong Flight is a prog like tour de force featuring some of the best playing(and most classic like) we have heard from the boys in ages. CA > Counterparts for me so far.

I guess people define these things in different ways but as much of an Alex fan as I am, when it comes to the guitar in HF there's nothing particularly stellar musicianship-wise about it. A song like Time Stand Still for instance is far more complex to arrange and to play. The bass and drums on HF are really active but again, there's not really a whole lot of complexity as I see it although I'm really more qualified to judge guitar. I really love Caravan and BU2B a lot too, but Alex seems to have traded in almost all of his neat and quirky arpeggios and splashes for more garage band power chord stuff. It may "rock" but it's just not very interesting and that kills me to say that.

[snowdog2112]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Apr 25 2012, 07:48 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:44 PM) There's just not enough info yet to compare but I will say this, I certainly haven't heard any more of CA than anyone else here but I think that expecting all of CA to be like the songs we've heard is a mistake. We've heard there are keyboards on it and we know there will be strings for at least some songs and Geddy has said things in the past like: We're having fun with it...there are some very complex moments. There are some very beautiful moments. It's kind of what you'd expect from Rush I guess - a little bit of everything. Now the indication you can get from the first 2 songs kind of sets the tone for where we're going with this record. But there are a few surprises as you get deeper into the record." - Geddy Lee, UK's 106.1 Rock Radio, March 30, 2011 I'm actually hoping there's a lot of variety on the record with some really neat orchestral stuff to balance out the heaviness but I think some fans have already gotten it into their heads that this is going to be some all-out super-heavy rock record from beginning to end. I just don't see that. And I may be in the minority but I hope it's not just heavy power chords for 66 minutes. We already know there will be at least SOME melodic stuff on there. Alex said late in the writing process some stuff more on the melodic side came into play. Anybody else find it interesting that Headlong Flight was the last track to make the record yet was released as a single? That bodes well to me That's happened other times. Far Cry was the last song written and the first single, so was Force Ten, New World Man was the last song written and was the second single. I'm not sure there's much meaning to that.

[trenken]

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:44 PM)

There's just not enough info yet to compare but I will say this, I certainly haven't heard any more of CA than anyone else here but I think that expecting all of CA to be like the songs we've heard is a mistake. We've heard there are keyboards on it and we know there will be strings for at least some songs and Geddy has said things in the past like: We're having fun with it...there are some very complex moments. There are some very beautiful moments. It's kind of what you'd expect from Rush I guess - a little bit of everything. Now the indication you can get from the first 2 songs kind of sets the tone for where we're going with this record. But there are a few surprises as you get deeper into the record." - Geddy Lee, UK's 106.1 Rock Radio, March 30, 2011 I'm actually hoping there's a lot of variety on the record with some really neat orchestral stuff to balance out the heaviness but I think some fans have already gotten it into their heads that this is going to be some all-out super-heavy rock record from beginning to end. I just don't see that. And I may be in the minority but I hope it's not just heavy power chords for 66 minutes.

Im really hoping for variety as well, but Im not counting on it. Lately since VT they basically find one type of song they like to write, then write like 12 of them.

 

Almost everything on VT has a similar feel to it. There's so little variety on that album, so many songs are pretty similar to each other in many ways, not a lot of real drastic high and low moments, it's all just sort of in the middle almost the entire time.

 

Felt the same about S&A, it's all just kind of mid tempo rock songs. Nothing very adventurous or surprising in any way. Now with CA we get 3 hard rock singles, all fairly similar to each other. Hell, they're even all in the same key.

 

Not sure I can really trust what he's saying. He wants to help sell the record and we see bands say stuff like this all the time before their albums come out to try and help get the hype going, but I dont know if what he thinks is variety is the same as what we think.

[SlyJeff]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:44 PM)

Totally disagree SlyJeff. Stick It Out is nothing like Headlong Flight. Stick it out is basically a pretty straight ahead catchy rocker not really showing too much musicianship.(by Rush standards anyway) Headlong Flight is a prog like tour de force featuring some of the best playing(and most classic like) we have heard from the boys in ages. CA > Counterparts for me so far.

HF doesn't seems that prog to me. It seems like a fairly straight-ahead rocker with a slight twist.

 

But I wasn't really comparing them in terms of sound or style- more just where they fall in terms of the overall catalog- and I get it's totally personal taste there. I like HF a lot, but I'm not in love with it.

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Apr 25 2012, 08:14 PM)

QUOTE (presto123 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:44 PM) Totally disagree SlyJeff. Stick It Out is nothing like Headlong Flight. Stick it out is basically a pretty straight ahead catchy rocker not really showing too much musicianship.(by Rush standards anyway) Headlong Flight is a prog like tour de force featuring some of the best playing(and most classic like) we have heard from the boys in ages. CA > Counterparts for me so far. HF doesn't seems that prog to me. It seems like a fairly straight-ahead rocker with a slight twist.   But I wasn't really comparing them in terms of sound or style- more just where they fall in terms of the overall catalog- and I get it's totally personal taste there. I like HF a lot, but I'm not in love with it. Not prog to me at all either.....those days are long over I'm afraid.

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Apr 25 2012, 08:14 PM)

QUOTE (presto123 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:44 PM) Totally disagree SlyJeff. Stick It Out is nothing like Headlong Flight. Stick it out is basically a pretty straight ahead catchy rocker not really showing too much musicianship.(by Rush standards anyway) Headlong Flight is a prog like tour de force featuring some of the best playing(and most classic like) we have heard from the boys in ages. CA > Counterparts for me so far. HF doesn't seems that prog to me. It seems like a fairly straight-ahead rocker with a slight twist.   Caravan, the same. Straight ahead verse/chorus structured song with a jam section thrown in.....not prog.

Edited April 26, 2012 by WCFIELDS

[SlyJeff]

To be fair, I never was much of a prog guy, so it doesn't bother me

[presto123]

Notice I said prog like. Not going to debate this again. We've been down this road before:)

[DistantEarlyRushFan]

Animate sounds good on Different Stages, though

[snowdog2112]

I don't really care one way or the other how "proggy" the album is, I really just hope that there's more to the guitar on it than power chords. But I guess I'm repeating myself now. It obviously really bugs me.

 

 

[presto123]

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Apr 25 2012, 09:30 PM)

I don't really care one way or the other how "proggy" the album is, I really just hope that there's more to the guitar on it than power chords. But I guess I'm repeating myself now. It obviously really bugs me.

Well you did get Alex's best solo IMO since at least Counterparts if not before that. Personally I like HF solo over CTTC.

[snowdog2112]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Apr 25 2012, 08:33 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Apr 25 2012, 09:30 PM) I don't really care one way or the other how "proggy" the album is, I really just hope that there's more to the guitar on it than power chords. But I guess I'm repeating myself now. It obviously really bugs me.  Well you did get Alex's best solo IMO since at least Counterparts if not before that. Personally I like HF solo over CTTC. I... um... no. There's nothing there that I couldn't teach a borderline amateur how to do in 30 minutes. Simply playing fast with very little definition and with heavy wah and distortion is almost like cheating. There's a reason that so many people make fun of Kirk Hammett for always using a wah when he solos. It's like airbrushing a model on a magazine. The guitar solo on Faithless is 10 times the piece of music that the one on HF is. HF has got the excitement factor, I'll give you that, but there's not much to it otherwise.   Again, I am the biggest Lifeson fan in the world (I mean that as an expression, not a competitive thing ), he's the reason I started playing guitar over 25 years ago and he's still far and away my favorite player but there's simply not much going on in HF guitar-wise except energy. I love the song, don't get me wrong, and in the greater context of the album this song may be perfect as it is. But from a guitar point of view the composition and playing on HF is not the kind of stuff that made him great, it's fairly pedestrian. I think maybe there's an adrenaline shot people are getting from the energy and speed of the song that's making people think there's more going on than there is. Seriously, I'm as close to a "Rush can do no wrong" fan as there is but there's just not much to it.   I will now brace for impact...

[presto123]

[default236]

Counterparts for me. Alien Shore, LTTA, Animate, Cold Fire, I like them all!! I do however think that the CTTC solo IS better than the HF solo by a long shot!

[presto123]

QUOTE (default236 @ Apr 25 2012, 10:15 PM)

Counterparts for me. Alien Shore, LTTA, Animate, Cold Fire, I like them all!! I do however think that the CTTC solo IS better than the HF solo by a long shot!

Well.....yeah. Your avatar gives you away. I have a feeling this record will exceed Counterparts for me. I'm thinking it will be my fav since Power Windows.

[SlyJeff]

I'm not a huge fan of the solo on HF. It's just kind of "blurry". I enjoy the one on Caravan, though.

 

And for the record, the solo on Dreamline is one of my favorites and it's easy to play

[default236]

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Apr 25 2012, 09:21 PM)

I'm not a huge fan of the solo on HF. It's just kind of "blurry". I enjoy the one on Caravan, though. And for the record, the solo on Dreamline is one of my favorites and it's easy to play

[presto123]

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Apr 25 2012, 10:21 PM)

I'm not a huge fan of the solo on HF. It's just kind of "blurry". I enjoy the one on Caravan, though. And for the record, the solo on Dreamline is one of my favorites and it's easy to play

That's funny. I love Caravan but the solo is my least fav part of the song. Goosebump factor not working on that one. I hope he did a different solo when they re-recorded it.

[default236]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Apr 25 2012, 09:25 PM)

QUOTE (SlyJeff @ Apr 25 2012, 10:21 PM) I'm not a huge fan of the solo on HF. It's just kind of "blurry". I enjoy the one on Caravan, though. And for the record, the solo on Dreamline is one of my favorites and it's easy to play That's funny. I love Caravan but the solo is my least fav part of the song. Goosebump factor not working on that one. I hope he did a different solo when they re-recorded it. Maybe the way he played it live . Sounds better than the studio version for sure!!