Nascar 2012

[KenJennings]

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Mar 9 2012, 05:19 PM)

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 9 2012, 05:14 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Mar 9 2012, 05:00 PM) QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 9 2012, 04:50 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Mar 9 2012, 04:38 PM) QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 9 2012, 02:30 PM) Kind of a random question here: but conventional wisdom is that if Austin Dillon has a decent season in the Nationwide Series this year, he'll likely run for Rookie of the Year in Sprint Cup for RCR next year.If this happens; should the number 3 move up with him? I was the biggest Dale Earnhardt Sr. fan I know; and I think it's time. Austin Dillon has driven the #3 throughout his career leading up to this; and for Richard Childress to put it back out on the race track would be appropriate, rather than letting the number fall to someone else eventually. It's going to be tough to see someone else driving that number out on the track in Sprint Cup; but I'd at least like to 'keep it in the family', while giving it a somewhat fresh start. I think the rookie is an appropriate fit. I agree...it's time...it will have been 12 years, and under the owner that gave him his chance. Childress owns the number and Dillon is his nephew. No one can accuse Childress of not respecting Dale's memory. 'cept Dillon's his grandson, not nephew.   I would've been uncomfortable seeing the #3 go to Dale Jr. And I think Dale Jr. was uncomfortable with that too. That would've felt forced, and I think it would've given Dale Jr and unrealistic legacy to live up to.   It's time to give the 3 a fresh start, and letting a member of the Childress family take charge of it is perfectly acceptable, IMO. It's time to move on.   You're right, of course. And I did actually know that.   I completely agree with not having Jr drive the 3, whether or not it became available as a result of tragedy. He needed to be his own man, and, though I believe he takes a bad rap among some fans, has been a pretty good driver over the course of his career, though nowhere near as good as his father.   I also believe he's handled everything about as well as it could be handled. I have a lot of respect for the guy and how grounded he's been given the circus that has accompanied him the past 12-15 years.   What I'm wondering is if the crash in the sports car race (SCCA?) a few years ago, where his life was endangered by fire, affected his career negatively. Jr's actually had a couple of really bad wrecks. There was a little-publicized wreck at Texas (I think) in ~2003 where he hit the wall HARD. And later admitted that he hid symptoms of a concussion for weeks in fear that he'd miss seat time, after seeing what happened to Steve Park.   I agree with you about Jr though. A lot of people say he's only there because of his name; but in reality, he's earned most of what he has on his own, despite carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders; all while living in the shadows of perhaps the best driver the sport has ever seen. He's been through a lot of shit, and handled it with a lot of class.   I almost wonder if Hendrick is the best environment for him. He already was under a ton of pressure, now he's with one of the biggest dollar teams in the sport, with the weight of a huge sponsor and unending demand to win. I think he would've been better off signing with a smaller team, somewhere where he could focus on going out on the track and having a good time again. That being said, I can almost guarantee he'll win a race this year. I hope it opens up the flood gates when he does, too. I remember seeing that Park accident and being sick over it. He was my favorite driver at the time, and his career was taken by a slut accident (oops, I meant fluke accident) when he veered left at exactly the wrong time under caution, and his struggle even to speak normally for a long time after that (I'm not even sure if he's overcome that yet).   Truly tragic. At least the tarp they put over his car wasn't a harbinger of worse. Park was my favorite driver at the time too. He was really just beginning to come into his own as an elite NASCAR talent too. When they pulled that tarp over his car, my heart sank. I thought for sure I was losing my favorite driver again. The whole story of his recovery was so tough, and how he rushed his comeback, and never got back up to speed. Was just terrible.   One of the happiest moments of my recent NASCAR memory was watching him come back in 2010 at Daytona in the July race there; and giving Tommy Baldwin's car a hell of a run to finish in the top 15. I'm proud to say I was on the car that day.   I'd really like to see Park in a Truck Series or Nationwide car again. I think he's recovered to the point where he could be competitive again. It's just too bad the sport has passed him by.

[laughedatbytime]

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 9 2012, 05:24 PM)

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Mar 9 2012, 05:19 PM) QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 9 2012, 05:14 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Mar 9 2012, 05:00 PM) QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 9 2012, 04:50 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Mar 9 2012, 04:38 PM) QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 9 2012, 02:30 PM) Kind of a random question here: but conventional wisdom is that if Austin Dillon has a decent season in the Nationwide Series this year, he'll likely run for Rookie of the Year in Sprint Cup for RCR next year.If this happens; should the number 3 move up with him? I was the biggest Dale Earnhardt Sr. fan I know; and I think it's time. Austin Dillon has driven the #3 throughout his career leading up to this; and for Richard Childress to put it back out on the race track would be appropriate, rather than letting the number fall to someone else eventually. It's going to be tough to see someone else driving that number out on the track in Sprint Cup; but I'd at least like to 'keep it in the family', while giving it a somewhat fresh start. I think the rookie is an appropriate fit. I agree...it's time...it will have been 12 years, and under the owner that gave him his chance. Childress owns the number and Dillon is his nephew. No one can accuse Childress of not respecting Dale's memory. 'cept Dillon's his grandson, not nephew.   I would've been uncomfortable seeing the #3 go to Dale Jr. And I think Dale Jr. was uncomfortable with that too. That would've felt forced, and I think it would've given Dale Jr and unrealistic legacy to live up to.   It's time to give the 3 a fresh start, and letting a member of the Childress family take charge of it is perfectly acceptable, IMO. It's time to move on.   You're right, of course. And I did actually know that.   I completely agree with not having Jr drive the 3, whether or not it became available as a result of tragedy. He needed to be his own man, and, though I believe he takes a bad rap among some fans, has been a pretty good driver over the course of his career, though nowhere near as good as his father.   I also believe he's handled everything about as well as it could be handled. I have a lot of respect for the guy and how grounded he's been given the circus that has accompanied him the past 12-15 years.   What I'm wondering is if the crash in the sports car race (SCCA?) a few years ago, where his life was endangered by fire, affected his career negatively. Jr's actually had a couple of really bad wrecks. There was a little-publicized wreck at Texas (I think) in ~2003 where he hit the wall HARD. And later admitted that he hid symptoms of a concussion for weeks in fear that he'd miss seat time, after seeing what happened to Steve Park.   I agree with you about Jr though. A lot of people say he's only there because of his name; but in reality, he's earned most of what he has on his own, despite carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders; all while living in the shadows of perhaps the best driver the sport has ever seen. He's been through a lot of shit, and handled it with a lot of class.   I almost wonder if Hendrick is the best environment for him. He already was under a ton of pressure, now he's with one of the biggest dollar teams in the sport, with the weight of a huge sponsor and unending demand to win. I think he would've been better off signing with a smaller team, somewhere where he could focus on going out on the track and having a good time again. That being said, I can almost guarantee he'll win a race this year. I hope it opens up the flood gates when he does, too. I remember seeing that Park accident and being sick over it. He was my favorite driver at the time, and his career was taken by a slut accident (oops, I meant fluke accident) when he veered left at exactly the wrong time under caution, and his struggle even to speak normally for a long time after that (I'm not even sure if he's overcome that yet).   Truly tragic. At least the tarp they put over his car wasn't a harbinger of worse. Park was my favorite driver at the time too. He was really just beginning to come into his own as an elite NASCAR talent too. When they pulled that tarp over his car, my heart sank. I thought for sure I was losing my favorite driver again. The whole story of his recovery was so tough, and how he rushed his comeback, and never got back up to speed. Was just terrible.   One of the happiest moments of my recent NASCAR memory was watching him come back in 2010 at Daytona in the July race there; and giving Tommy Baldwin's car a hell of a run to finish in the top 15. I'm proud to say I was on the car that day.   I'd really like to see Park in a Truck Series or Nationwide car again. I think he's recovered to the point where he could be competitive again. It's just too bad the sport has passed him by. Yep...I still remember the week after Dale lost his life when Park won at Rockingham in a last lap duel with, I believe, Bobby Labonte. That was quite the season, I think Harvick won in the 29 at Atlanta a couple of weeks later in a 4-5 car duel.   I also recall (though obviously not with the greatest detail), I think it was his first race back (Dover?) when he qualified up front (on the pole?) and took the lead early in the race, only to clip a car he was lapping. What a huge disappointment...

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 9 2012, 04:30 PM)

Kind of a random question here: but conventional wisdom is that if Austin Dillon has a decent season in the Nationwide Series this year, he'll likely run for Rookie of the Year in Sprint Cup for RCR next year.If this happens; should the number 3 move up with him? I was the biggest Dale Earnhardt Sr. fan I know; and I think it's time. Austin Dillon has driven the #3 throughout his career leading up to this; and for Richard Childress to put it back out on the race track would be appropriate, rather than letting the number fall to someone else eventually. It's going to be tough to see someone else driving that number out on the track in Sprint Cup; but I'd at least like to 'keep it in the family', while giving it a somewhat fresh start. I think the rookie is an appropriate fit.

I respect the opinions on letting Dillon use the #3, but I think it should be one # that should just simply be retired for Sprint Cup. I think Dale Sr. meant so much to the sport and that #3 is so iconic, that I think putting anyone in it, even if it's Childress' grandson and it used to be Childress' own number, Dale Sr. made it what it is. I know someone will say, Richard Petty is iconic and his #43 is out there, but the big difference in my mind is that Dale Sr. died on the track in that #3 car. So let's say Earnhardt died that same year but of natural causes or a heart attack, I think it would be a different story for the argument to retire the #3 and I could understand them using it again. But since he died in that #3 car and he is arguably the greatest driver in NASCAR history, I think it changes the argument.

 

The other reason is having ANYONE drive the #3 is entirely too much pressure and responsibility. I think that Dillon would be better to find a different number and make it his own.

 

Admittedly, I am not a Childress fan at all, and so maybe in the back of my brain I'm not being objective, but I truly think I am. I just think that losing Dale Sr. on the track at Daytona, of all places, and just what that #3 means to not only the Earnhardt fans, but also NASCAR in general, I think the sport would be better served to simply retire #3 from Sprint Cup forever. I have no problem with him running it in the Nationwide series at all.

 

But all that said, if Childress does end up letting Dillon use it in Sprint Cup next year, which is what will most likely happen, I do see the argument for it, ie. the car # being in the Childress family...literally. But I bet you there will be alot of backlash by Earnhardt Sr. and NASCAR fans if that car is back on the Sprint Cup track every week.

[laughedatbytime]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 10 2012, 09:18 PM)

But all that said, if Childress does end up letting Dillon use it in Sprint Cup next year, which is what will most likely happen, I do see the argument for it, ie. the car # being in the Childress family...literally. But I bet you there will be alot of backlash by Earnhardt Sr. and NASCAR fans if that car is back on the Sprint Cup track every week.

I respect your argument and consider it well thought out. But I don't see the backlash if Dillon runs the car. Childress was one of Dale's closest friends...probably his closest. So I don't think the fans (there may be some exceptions but not many, I'm guessing) will turn against Childress.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Mar 10 2012, 11:22 PM)

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 10 2012, 09:18 PM) But all that said, if Childress does end up letting Dillon use it in Sprint Cup next year, which is what will most likely happen, I do see the argument for it, ie. the car # being in the Childress family...literally.  But I bet you there will be alot of backlash by Earnhardt Sr. and NASCAR fans if that car is back on the Sprint Cup track every week. I respect your argument and consider it well thought out. But I don't see the backlash if Dillon runs the car. Childress was one of Dale's closest friends...probably his closest. So I don't think the fans (there may be some exceptions but not many, I'm guessing) will turn against Childress. You could be right. Regardless, my hope is that it doesn't get run in a Sprint Cup race again. But if it does, Dillon would be a logical candidate, although, there will be alot of pressure on that kid if he ends up in that car, and he already has alot of pressure being Childress' grandson as it is.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

Great race today! Congrats to Tony Stewart.

 

I am very happy with Carl Edwards bringing home a 5th place finish with a 15th place car. And anyone who saw that part at the end where Carl had to go low and pass Kenseth, that was all Kenseth's own fault. He spun his tires, forcing Carl low, then Carl came back on the track and his car wasn't as fast as Kenseth's but Kenseth didn't slow up and the with Kayne on his outside, the air pulled Kenseth into the wall. I was reading some comments on the NASCAR board that the situation was all Carl's fault and he wrecked Kenseth. I think not!

 

[KenJennings]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 11 2012, 05:50 PM)

Great race today! Congrats to Tony Stewart. I am very happy with Carl Edwards bringing home a 5th place finish with a 15th place car. And anyone who saw that part at the end where Carl had to go low and pass Kenseth, that was all Kenseth's own fault. He spun his tires, forcing Carl low, then Carl came back on the track and his car wasn't as fast as Kenseth's but Kenseth didn't slow up and the with Kayne on his outside, the air pulled Kenseth into the wall. I was reading some comments on the NASCAR board that the situation was all Carl's fault and he wrecked Kenseth. I think not!

Carl was getting awfully aggressive considering he was racing against his teammates. There was no need for him to go down on the apron and force that issue. If he'd have stayed back, he wouldn't have pushed 3-wide and forced Kenseth aero-loose and in the wall.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 12 2012, 01:04 PM)

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 11 2012, 05:50 PM) Great race today!  Congrats to Tony Stewart. I am very happy with Carl Edwards bringing home a 5th place finish with a 15th place car.  And anyone who saw that part at the end where Carl had to go low and pass Kenseth, that was all Kenseth's own fault.  He spun his tires, forcing Carl low, then Carl came back on the track and his car wasn't as fast as Kenseth's but Kenseth didn't slow up and the with Kayne on his outside, the air pulled Kenseth into the wall.  I was reading some comments on the NASCAR board that the situation was all Carl's fault and he wrecked Kenseth.  I think not! Carl was getting awfully aggressive considering he was racing against his teammates. There was no need for him to go down on the apron and force that issue. If he'd have stayed back, he wouldn't have pushed 3-wide and forced Kenseth aero-loose and in the wall. I get what you are saying, but the teammate thing is overrated. Biffle left Carl out to dry a couple times at Daytona and while I'd prefer Carl to play nice with his teammates, I'd rather him go for a win or a top 5 considering nobody is looking out for him, including his teammates. Carl is one of the cleaner drivers, IMO, and I am constantly yelling at the TV for him to take more chances, even at the expense of others. Other drivers get away with it all the time with teammates. Bottom line, racing is NOT really a team sport. It's one against 42 (and when I say 42, I'm not referring to Montoya, although it seems like everyone needs to watch out for him!). Just like Biffle tried to explain about wanting to win Daytona. I'm not saying I want Carl to wreck his teammates or race them dirty, but by the same token Carl had two bad outings in a row and needed the best finish he could get. Bottom line is Kenseth either spun his tires or didn't get a good restart and if Carl stays behind him he ends up in 7th or worse. I feel bad for Kenseth, but He could have simply slowed up and not got into Carl. And if Kayne wasn't on his outside, he probably wouldn't have lost control.   So while I get what your saying, I don't agree.     And one other thing since I brought up ole Juan Pablo "The Jet Dryer Assassin" Montoya. How in the name of NASCAR does Montoya still have a ride, let alone a sponser like Target or any of his other sponsors? If I was Target, I'd be jumping ship and go to RFR or any of the other top teams. You're not gonna get that Target car in victory lane with Montoya unless it's on a RC, and even then, there are so many great RC drivers these days, his odds drop every year and at 36 he isn't getting any younger or better. He has 2 wins in his seven years in NASCAR both on road courses. And you certainly aren't gonna get any "good" publicity with him as your driver. Then again, that old adage, any publicity is good publicity maybe keeps them on that car. Either that or they are trying to appeal to the Spanish speaking NASCAR fans. Regardless, it blows me away that he is still driving in NASCAR. Like you have said many times about Danica, there are so many deserving drivers in NASCAR who either don't have a ride or are with teams that have no chance to compete. Why Earnhardt Ganassi Racing doesn't find some young promising driver, or even a veteran who would have a better chance at winning with a better team, is beyond me.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

Damn, Carl Edwards almost had the pole today! He just over drove it slightly! But he usually does well at Bristol so I am looking forward to Sunday, provided it doesn't rain! Right now it's a 50% chance!

[KenJennings]

Elliott Sadler really couldn't be any hotter at this point. 4 races, 4 top-3 finishes, 2 wins. This is going to be his year in Nationwide.

[Shredder2]

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 17 2012, 05:18 PM)

Elliott Sadler really couldn't be any hotter at this point. 4 races, 4 top-3 finishes, 2 wins. This is going to be his year in Nationwide.

Agreed! That's who I'm rooting for in this year's Nationwide series!

 

Bristol baby!

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

Well, my Sunday just opened up. Can't stomach watching the rest of the race after Carl Edwards got wrecked early.

 

Oh well, that's racing...and that's the jinx I put on any team or player, or in this case, driver, that I support!

[Shredder2]

Well, I'm glad to not see Kyle winning today!

[KenJennings]

Nice Run by Brad K, and a hell of a recovery by Harvick! I'll take an 11th place finish outta that any week!

[ridertoo98]

He made the move at the right time, he watched the 17 and knew he had it. Nice run for the #2.

Not sure about FI in the Cup, got to look into the system. I know somebody is trying to get into the black box..

[KenJennings]

I want to know why so many fans are complaining about the new Bristol configuration. Bristol used to be a wreck-fest where the only way to complete a pass was by putting your competitor in the wall... Now, two guys can battle side by side for laps and actually COMPETE for every position.

 

The new Bristol is MUCH better than the old Bristol, and these fans who say otherwise not only irritate me, I think they give NASCAR fans a bad name. They say that we'd rather just see wrecks than enjoy GOOD racing. I don't need a bunch of that in NASCAR when I can go to the junkyard and watch a demo derby!

 

Bristol track owner Bruton Smith has set up an email address for fan feedback. I've sent mine: input@bristolmotorspeedway.com

Edited March 20, 2012 by KenJennings

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 20 2012, 02:12 PM)

I want to know why so many fans are complaining about the new Bristol configuration. Bristol used to be a wreck-fest where the only way to complete a pass was by putting your competitor in the wall... Now, two guys can battle side by side for laps and actually COMPETE for every position. The new Bristol is MUCH better than the old Bristol, and these fans who say otherwise not only irritate me, I think they give NASCAR fans a bad name. They say that we'd rather just see wrecks than enjoy GOOD racing. I don't need a bunch of that in NASCAR when I can go to the junkyard and watch a demo derby! Bristol track owner Bruton Smith has set up an email address for fan feedback. I've sent mine: input@bristolmotorspeedway.com

Totally agree. I actually think it has more to do with the economy than the racing. With 158,000 seats to fill, that is a HUGE amount of fans. Even the biggest college football stadiums only seat around 100k. Imagine having to fill out another 58k seats! I think the reason it's getting some news time is because the media focuses on the vocal minority.

 

I love the racing at Bristol now. That is how every track should be. Some races are just single file. Bristol is exciting. If I ever get to go to a NASCAR race, I'm going to Bristol. Being able to see the entire track like that is amazing, coupled with 43 cars on a half mile track racing side by side. You can't beat that.

 

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

What a JOKE. Hendrick gets his buddy to lift the suspension on Knaus and take away the pts deduction. NASCAR is becoming a complete joke. I guarantee a Hendrick driver wins the Sprint Cup this year, most likely JJ though, because Knaus is the leader of that team when it comes to the car and he is a proven cheater. Hendrick supports him, and that makes him one as well.

 

They are cheaters and NASCAR has let it go on, then they have an antiquated system where Hendrick can have his buddy make the appeal decision. I don't blame JJ, but Hendrick and Knaus are cheaters. No wonder NASCAR gets made fun of when compared to other major sports, because it's a joke. (Did I mention that Hendrick and Knaus are cheaters? )

 

The point was INTENT. They were not aloud to modify the body when it came from the manufacturer and they did. They do this stuff all the time. Like when Knaus got caught on camera telling JJ to wreck if he won. I wonder how many times over the years they HAVE gotten away with stuff like they tried to pull in Daytona. And the argument, "they all do it" is just a cop out. So all the politicians in Washington are crooks, so that makes it ok? And certain owners RARELY get caught up in these kind of violations.

 

To me, and call it sour grapes or whatever you like, this puts all 5 of JJ's Championships in question. And that sucks for JJ as he is such a classy guy. He should be driving for an owner like Penske or Roush.

 

Granted, I'm a Roush fan, but he is not a cheater. Either is Penske. Unbelievable.

[KenJennings]

As far as I understand it, there was no specific rule banning modifications to that area of the car. In other words, there was no template they didn't fit.

 

This is a classic example of a team looking at the rulebook and saying "gee, what can we get away with?" I'm glad to see this penalty overturned, the only sad thing is that similar penalties were fully enforced in the past, and there is no consistency in the decision.

 

I'm reminded of a time in the 80s when Darrell Waltrip was constantly getting better fuel mileage than competition. After a few weeks, NASCAR checked out his car, only to find that his gas tank was the regulation 22 gallon size, but the fuel line was ridiculously long, snaked through the body of the car, back and forth, allowing an extra half-gallon or so to be within the car. He wasn't penalized, because it wasn't illegal; the team just got clever. Sure enough, the rules changed almost immediately; but ingenuity paid off for a little while.

 

I wish NASCAR would allow these guys to be 'clever' again, not having to worry that NASCAR will move the goalposts and penalize them regardless. When NASCAR saw what they did, it's fine to say "Oh... we're going to write a new rule, so go change it.", but don't penalize them for trying.

 

That all having been said, Jimmie Johnson got away with this. Regan Smith, David Gillilland, or even Brad Keselowski probably wouldn't have. Hendrick's sway definitely helped their cause. I just wish NASCAR would be more black and white about stuff.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 21 2012, 08:40 PM)

As far as I understand it, there was no specific rule banning modifications to that area of the car. In other words, there was no template they didn't fit. This is a classic example of a team looking at the rulebook and saying "gee, what can we get away with?" I'm glad to see this penalty overturned, the only sad thing is that similar penalties were fully enforced in the past, and there is no consistency in the decision. I'm reminded of a time in the 80s when Darrell Waltrip was constantly getting better fuel mileage than competition. After a few weeks, NASCAR checked out his car, only to find that his gas tank was the regulation 22 gallon size, but the fuel line was ridiculously long, snaked through the body of the car, back and forth, allowing an extra half-gallon or so to be within the car. He wasn't penalized, because it wasn't illegal; the team just got clever. Sure enough, the rules changed almost immediately; but ingenuity paid off for a little while. I wish NASCAR would allow these guys to be 'clever' again, not having to worry that NASCAR will move the goalposts and penalize them regardless. When NASCAR saw what they did, it's fine to say "Oh... we're going to write a new rule, so go change it.", but don't penalize them for trying. That all having been said, Jimmie Johnson got away with this. Regan Smith, David Gillilland, or even Brad Keselowski probably wouldn't have. Hendrick's sway definitely helped their cause. I just wish NASCAR would be more black and white about stuff.

I agree with alot of what you said about NASCAR and how it would be a different story for, really any team other than HMS. And also about letting them be "clever".

 

But from what I have read, it is clearly stated that they can make NO modifications of any kind to any part of the body of the car once it comes from the manufacturer. So whether it fit the template is not the issue. The issue is they were clearly not aloud to touch the body of the car and they did it, knowing it was illegal.

 

With the Waltrip example you gave, it's apples and oranges. (BTW, pretty ingenious idea!) If the rule said "You may not alter anything in the car to increase the amount of gas the car can carry," and they did it anyway, that would be cheating. Sounds like what they did was pretty brilliant but not breaking any rules.

 

But as far as I have understood, the rule is no modifications to the body of the car. The rear posts are part of the body of the car, they knew it and they still did it. Given CK past history and add in that tape last year about him wrecking the car if he won the race, it's obvious this guy is going WAY beyond the rules and that is not fair to Roush, Childress or anyone else. ESPECIALLY, JJ, the fans and more importantly the smaller teams that can't afford to do the things that the big teams can do.

[KenJennings]

Ultimately, it would be nice if NASCAR made their rulebook public, so that us fans could argue over something concrete, rather than hearsay and whatnot.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 23 2012, 01:55 AM)

Ultimately, it would be nice if NASCAR made their rulebook public, so that us fans could argue over something concrete, rather than hearsay and whatnot.

Really? Since I was a casual fan for so many years and then just became an every week fan a year and a half ago, I had no idea that it wasn't public!!! That's kinda ridiculous. But I guess as long as the car owners have them, that is all that really matters.

 

You have to agree, CK has brought all the criticism and the penalties, well the penalties he SHOULD have gotten, on himself.

 

I may be wrong on this, but I don't think there has been any other crew chief penalized as much and as often as CK. And the fact that he is on arguably the best team, does he really NEED to try to push every rule to the limit and really past the limit to cheating?

[KenJennings]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 23 2012, 02:14 AM)

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 23 2012, 01:55 AM) Ultimately, it would be nice if NASCAR made their rulebook public, so that us fans could argue over something concrete, rather than hearsay and whatnot. Really? Since I was a casual fan for so many years and then just became an every week fan a year and a half ago, I had no idea that it wasn't public!!! That's kinda ridiculous. But I guess as long as the car owners have them, that is all that really matters.   You have to agree, CK has brought all the criticism and the penalties, well the penalties he SHOULD have gotten, on himself.   I may be wrong on this, but I don't think there has been any other crew chief penalized as much and as often as CK. And the fact that he is on arguably the best team, does he really NEED to try to push every rule to the limit and really past the limit to cheating? No, I wouldn't disagree that Chad Knaus has pushed the envelope more than anyone else. That's why they won 5 championships. The #48 team has made a dynasty out of pushing the limits of their operation. I don't really fault them for it, and they get penalized for it often. They still make the most of the situations. I'm no JJ, CK, or team 48 fan- but I gotta respect their angle.   NASCAR's rules aren't public though. The media doesn't really know the full wording of what they are, and frankly, I don't think the drivers and teams know either. NASCAR's sanctioning body is a very close-door secretive organization. They have 'valued their own privacy' beyond the limits of most other public entities. They've been exposed secretly fining drivers who speak out against their rulings, they've been exposed with subjective rules that seem to change based on the drivers involved. Their secrecy is the only way of maintaining it.   It's strange that NASCAR has backed off of legal precedings on a number of occasions; they have become very silent on the Jeremy Mayfield incident, as to avoid testifying in court. Their handling of the aftermath of Dale Earnhardt's death was also very suspicious, as they did everything possible to scapegoat Bill Simpson, who's company manufactured the seatbelt that 'supposedly' failed, though that fact is heavily disputed; and When Brian France got divorced last year, he paid his ex everything she wanted to avoid going to court. NASCAR has issues they don't want publicly exposed, they're a very secretive organization. I really wish something would force them to open up their books.

[laughedatbytime]

QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 23 2012, 03:07 AM)

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 23 2012, 02:14 AM) QUOTE (KenJennings @ Mar 23 2012, 01:55 AM) Ultimately, it would be nice if NASCAR made their rulebook public, so that us fans could argue over something concrete, rather than hearsay and whatnot. Really? Since I was a casual fan for so many years and then just became an every week fan a year and a half ago, I had no idea that it wasn't public!!! That's kinda ridiculous. But I guess as long as the car owners have them, that is all that really matters.   You have to agree, CK has brought all the criticism and the penalties, well the penalties he SHOULD have gotten, on himself.   I may be wrong on this, but I don't think there has been any other crew chief penalized as much and as often as CK. And the fact that he is on arguably the best team, does he really NEED to try to push every rule to the limit and really past the limit to cheating? No, I wouldn't disagree that Chad Knaus has pushed the envelope more than anyone else. That's why they won 5 championships. The #48 team has made a dynasty out of pushing the limits of their operation. I don't really fault them for it, and they get penalized for it often. They still make the most of the situations. I'm no JJ, CK, or team 48 fan- but I gotta respect their angle.   NASCAR's rules aren't public though. The media doesn't really know the full wording of what they are, and frankly, I don't think the drivers and teams know either. NASCAR's sanctioning body is a very close-door secretive organization. They have 'valued their own privacy' beyond the limits of most other public entities. They've been exposed secretly fining drivers who speak out against their rulings, they've been exposed with subjective rules that seem to change based on the drivers involved. Their secrecy is the only way of maintaining it.   It's strange that NASCAR has backed off of legal precedings on a number of occasions; they have become very silent on the Jeremy Mayfield incident, as to avoid testifying in court. Their handling of the aftermath of Dale Earnhardt's death was also very suspicious, as they did everything possible to scapegoat Bill Simpson, who's company manufactured the seatbelt that 'supposedly' failed, though that fact is heavily disputed; and When Brian France got divorced last year, he paid his ex everything she wanted to avoid going to court. NASCAR has issues they don't want publicly exposed, they're a very secretive organization. I really wish something would force them to open up their books. I agree with all that, and while I'm not a real historian, I believe this is nothing new for NASCAR, and that this was the case while Bill France Jr was running NASCAR, that it's not just a function of Brian France running the show. Ever since I started following the sport in the late 90s, there have been discussions about teams not knowing what the rules were, that nothing was shared publicly, and that rules were nebulous, selectively enforced, and could be changed on a whim.   The main difference I see is that while Bill France Jr did a great job of running the sport as a benevolent dictator, Brian is a f***up who has no idea what he's doing, and who also has some real personal issues (alcoholism?) that are hampering his ability to run the sport competently.

[KenJennings]

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Mar 23 2012, 05:17 AM)

The main difference I see is that while Bill France Jr did a great job of running the sport as a benevolent dictator, Brian is a f***up who has no idea what he's doing, and who also has some real personal issues (alcoholism?) that are hampering his ability to run the sport competently.

Agreed 100%!!