TRF Official 'Blade Runner' Discussion Thread

[Jack Aubrey]

I decided to go ahead and start this thing myself. I hope you all enjoyed the movie as much as I do.

 

Here's a couple of questions to get us going:

 

Deckard: human or replicant?

 

Why do you think Roy Batty saved Deckard instead of letting him die and why did Batty wait until the absolute last minute to catch him?

Edited April 22, 2011 by Jack Aubrey

[Arndrake]

I had never really thought about whether Deckard was human or replicant before, having always assumed he was human. But considering many of the questions put forth, such as how he was able to survive so much abuse at the hands of the other replicants that would have crippled or killed a human, it would appear he was. Especially when Ridley Scott finally admitted he always viewed Deckard as being a replicant. The unicorn dream combined with Gaff's Origami unicorn figurine. In Leon's hotel, Deckard does all the investigation while Gaff does nothing, which makes me think of a wrangler following a hound on the scent.

 

I remember from the original version, Deckard's voiceover narration stated that his theory why Baty saved Deckard's life was that at that moment Baty loved all life, not just his own.

[Jack Aubrey]

QUOTE (Arndrake @ May 31 2008, 02:50 PM)

I had never really thought about whether Deckard was human or replicant before, having always assumed he was human. But considering many of the questions put forth, such as how he was able to survive so much abuse at the hands of the other replicants that would have crippled or killed a human, it would appear he was. Especially when Ridley Scott finally admitted he always viewed Deckard as being a replicant. The unicorn dream combined with Gaff's Origami unicorn figurine. In Leon's hotel, Deckard does all the investigation while Gaff does nothing, which makes me think of a wrangler following a hound on the scent. I remember from the original version, Deckard's voiceover narration stated that his theory why Baty saved Deckard's life was that at that moment Baty loved all life, not just his own.

Yes, I know about the voiceover, what I was trying to get at was why do you think Batty saved Deckard's life? I mean, can you think of any other reasons he may have done it other than what was cited in the voiceover in the earlier version?

 

My main reason for asking these questions is that I find learning other's impressions of a movie help me to enjoy it more, to get more out of it. That was my main reason for starting the movie club in the first place.

 

By the way, even though Scott has come out and said that Deckard was a replicant, there are still people who vehemently disagree.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Jack Aubrey

[Arndrake]

Maybe at the end, Baty realized that Deckard was also a replicant. Interesting point is that during his final speech, he says "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe" which could suggest that he thought Deckard was human.

[Celine]

I watched it yesterday (I know, I lose points for handing in my review late). Although it's not my normal genre, I liked it. I especially like the ending, where you can visibly see Batty's transformation. The dove was great symbolism.

 

Batty: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

 

I would've never thought about Ford's character also being a robot if I hadn't read Jack's post first, but I looked for different signs throughout the movie...and my official opinion is...I don't know.

 

Apparently, from my reading, the director's cut has a bit more information, as in they talk about his female love interest doesn't have the four year life span built in...which would make one think that they left to live out a normal life span together.

 

Anyway...good first movie.

 

So what's next?

[goose]

As a fan of film noir, I love this movie. Although it's set in the future and has sci-fi content, it really has a lot of those classic noir elements. I love the pacing of the film, the inclusion of the mundane that helps create the "detective's" world and create a depth of character. We have time to get to know these people - something missing in a lot of sci-fi films. This is why it endures as a piece of work.

 

 

[Stormtron]

I think Deckard is a replicant. I can't see it any other way now. As to why Batty saved him.....I see it as Batty's way of showing some humanity. He knew his time was up and he chose to go out quietly. I'm not sure if Deckard ever knows he's a replicant, but either way I think Batty's final monologue helps Deckard realize that he shouldn't be a slave to Bryant.

[Jack Aubrey]

Great opinions so far, folks! I'm going to wait until more people have weighed in before I give you my take.

[Did Lee Squat?]

Man I haven't seen this movie in a while I need to go buy it!

 

All you guy's opinions suddenly make me want to watch it.

[Jack Aubrey]

QUOTE (Did Lee Squat? @ Jun 2 2008, 11:42 AM)

Man I haven't seen this movie in a while I need to go buy it! All you guy's opinions suddenly make me want to watch it.

Go get it and watch it, it's not too late to join the conversation! The more the merrier.

 

Also, if you get it, splurge and get the four-disc set. Trust me, it's worth it. If you really want to splurge, get the five-disc set in the plastic silver briefcase. I don't know if it's still available because it was a limited edition and really it's for hardcore fans, but I thought I'd tell you about it just in case.

[GeddyRulz]

To me, the most interesting theme in the movie is "What role does memory play in our lives?"

 

In "Blade Runner," we have the replicant Rachael, who doesn't know she's a replicant; she thinks she's human, and is depressed to find out she's not. She defends her (possible) humanity by explaining that she remembers her childhood and piano lessons when she was younger, but these are actually just 'memories' which have been implanted in her by her creators.

 

The interesting Mind F*ck question the film asks is: What if you were only a replicant who was just created yesterday? The only way to prove you weren't a recently-created replicant would be to say, "But I remember the day before yesterday. And the day before that. And the day before that. I remember my childhood, learning to ride a bike, vacationing with my parents, etc." But suppose those memories were just a part of your programming, like Rachael's memory... then how would you prove you weren't a replicant, created yesterday? This is a trippy question, in my mind. Without a memory, our lives aren't very real or meaningful. Prove that you're not a replicant. It's a mind-tripping challenge, isn't it?

 

"Total Recall," another film based on a Phillip K. Dick story, also addresses memory. In the future, there's a company which will sell you the memory of having taken a vacation. Since the memory will seem real to you, you'll feel as if you've taken one. "Memory" was big with Phillip K. Dick!

Edited June 2, 2008 by GeddyRulz

[goose]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 2 2008, 11:30 AM)

To me, the most interesting theme in the movie is "What role does memory play in our lives?" She defends her (possible) humanity by explaining that she remembers her childhood and piano lessons when she was younger, but these are actually just 'memories' which have been implanted in her by her creators. But suppose those memories were just a part of your programming, like Rachael's memory... then how would you prove you weren't a replicant, created yesterday? This is a trippy question, in my mind. Without a memory, our lives aren't very real or meaningful.

To a degree, we are all in that situation. Our memories are constructions of our perception, and our earliest memories are tied to strong emotion and what others have recounted. I know I've "recalled" what I believed were strong memories of my childhood only to have the adults that were there at the time swear it never happened. Not all memories are born from actual experience, they are often constructed by imagination and others around us.

 

 

[Jack Aubrey]

QUOTE (goose @ Jun 2 2008, 06:34 PM)

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 2 2008, 11:30 AM) To me, the most interesting theme in the movie is "What role does memory play in our lives?"  She defends her (possible) humanity by explaining that she remembers her childhood and piano lessons when she was younger, but these are actually just 'memories' which have been implanted in her by her creators. But suppose those memories were just a part of your programming, like Rachael's memory... then how would you prove you weren't a replicant, created yesterday?  This is a trippy question, in my mind.  Without a memory, our lives aren't very real or meaningful.  To a degree, we are all in that situation. Our memories are constructions of our perception, and our earliest memories are tied to strong emotion and what others have recounted. I know I've "recalled" what I believed were strong memories of my childhood only to have the adults that were there at the time swear it never happened. Not all memories are born from actual experience, they are often constructed by imagination and others around us. Of all liars, the smoothest and most convincing is memory.

[Jack Aubrey]

Please, more people weigh in! I demand it!

 

I know my friend Janie watched it. Janieeeeeeeeeee?! Hellooooooooooo?!

[GeddyRulz]

Mortality was also an interesting theme. The replicants knew their time was almost up, and they wanted more life. Roy even asked for more life from his "creator." (If we could talk to ours, we probably would, too!) Leon to Deckard: "How old am I? How long do I live?" Deckard's voiceover regarding Roy (on the original film): "All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got?"

 

We know that we're going to die, we don't know when. But it'll be too soon. Deckard and replicant Rachael ride off together at the end. Gaff to Deckard, re: Rachael: "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?" And Deckard's last voiceover (on the original film) echoed the same sentiment: "I didn't know how long we had together... Who does?" Good point. Replicant or human, we don't know how much time we've got left.

Edited June 3, 2008 by GeddyRulz

[Did Lee Squat?]

QUOTE (Jack Aubrey @ Jun 2 2008, 10:45 AM)

QUOTE (Did Lee Squat? @ Jun 2 2008, 11:42 AM) Man I haven't seen this movie in a while I need to go buy it!  All you guy's opinions suddenly make me want to watch it. Go get it and watch it, it's not too late to join the conversation! The more the merrier.   Also, if you get it, splurge and get the four-disc set. Trust me, it's worth it. If you really want to splurge, get the five-disc set in the plastic silver briefcase. I don't know if it's still available because it was a limited edition and really it's for hardcore fans, but I thought I'd tell you about it just in case. Ah thanks for the heads up. I really do need to get this movie.

[Did Lee Squat?]

OK just watched it online (not sure which version?):

 

I think arguing over whether Deckard is a human or replicant is rather pointless because there is numerous evidence to support either option. What makes this film so fascinating to me is the sense of paranoia you feel, realizing that humankind has created machines so advanced that the person you see walking down the street next to you might not be human, and you would never know; even more so that you might be a replicant and not even know. That's just effed up , and as GeddyRulz pointed out, you wouldn't be able to prove it alone. Very scary indeed.

 

All this is really just an extension of the common fear that's sort of universally been brought to our attention by science fiction writers, that technology might "one day be in control" and whatnot, done in a very sophisticated, thought-provoking manner. I think the visuals also kind of add to the paranoia, as far as the roving spotlights over the city and the rainy, disorienting city streets and so on.

 

Man this movie is thematically deep on so many levels I could write for hours. It's like a big chain reaction of uncertainties.

[goose]

QUOTE (Jack Aubrey @ Jun 2 2008, 05:44 PM)

QUOTE (goose @ Jun 2 2008, 06:34 PM) QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 2 2008, 11:30 AM) To me, the most interesting theme in the movie is "What role does memory play in our lives?"  She defends her (possible) humanity by explaining that she remembers her childhood and piano lessons when she was younger, but these are actually just 'memories' which have been implanted in her by her creators. But suppose those memories were just a part of your programming, like Rachael's memory... then how would you prove you weren't a replicant, created yesterday?  This is a trippy question, in my mind.  Without a memory, our lives aren't very real or meaningful.  To a degree, we are all in that situation. Our memories are constructions of our perception, and our earliest memories are tied to strong emotion and what others have recounted. I know I've "recalled" what I believed were strong memories of my childhood only to have the adults that were there at the time swear it never happened. Not all memories are born from actual experience, they are often constructed by imagination and others around us. Of all liars, the smoothest and most convincing is memory.

[goose]

OK, anyone looking to go really deep into this film should read this. I like what this person has to say about the portrayal of capitalism run amok, the idea of slave to binaries, and his thoughts on memory.

 

http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/07/...ade-runner.html

 

Enjoy.

Edited June 4, 2008 by goose

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (goose @ Jun 4 2008, 12:15 AM)

OK, anyone looking to go really deep into this film should read this. http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/07/...ade-runner.html Enjoy.

That was a great read and pretty much covered everything of philosophical and artistic importance in the film.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jack Aubrey]

QUOTE (Jack Aubrey @ May 31 2008, 09:00 AM)

I decided to go ahead and start this thing myself. I hope you all enjoyed the movie as much as I do. Here's a couple of questions to get us going: Deckard: human or replicant? Why do you think Roy Batty saved Deckard instead of letting him die and why did Batty wait until the absolute last minute to catch him?

OK, here's my take.

 

QUOTE

Deckard: human or replicant?

 

Definitely a replicant. Not for any of the reasons cited by so many others, but I believe it would take a replicant to catch a replicant. In the intro to the film, the Nexus 6 robots are described as "superior in strength and agility and at least equal in intelligence to the genetic engineers who designed them". Now if a replicant was Hell-bent on staying hidden do you think a mere human could catch one? And if he did manage to catch up to one, it'd be game over when he came face to face with it. In the time it takes him to aim his weapon, the replicant could be either upon him or gone. The reps are pretty badass. Plus if you watch the fight scene between Leon and Deckard, watch how Deckard dodges Leon's punch, which smashes through the side of the truck!

 

QUOTE

Why do you think Roy Batty saved Deckard instead of letting him die and why did Batty wait until the absolute last minute to catch him?

 

OK, why did the reps come back to Earth to begin with? Because they wanted information. Now something tells me that the reps know about their 4-year lifespan, which is why they're so impatient. But Leon's "How old am I?" question tells us they don't know how much longer they have to live. Imagine living your life knowing you could drop dead tomorrow, or even five minutes from now.

 

That being said, I think that since the reps were always seeking out new experiences, Batty saved Deckard's life because killing was all he had done. He was a Combat Model. So he saved Deckard's life because he wanted to know the experience, what it felt like to save a life instead of taking one. The reason he waited until the very last minute was because he wanted Deckard to live in his world for a moment, to know the terror of death being, quite possibly, just around the corner.

 

Anyone agree or disagree?

 

[goose]

QUOTE (Jack Aubrey @ Jun 4 2008, 02:07 PM)

I think that since the reps were always seeking out new experiences, Batty saved Deckard's life because killing was all he had done. He was a Combat Model. So he saved Deckard's life because he wanted to know the experience, what it felt like to save a life instead of taking one.

So, if his desire is to be closer to human, to truly exist, this exercise of freewill brings him closer. I think that's good insight, JA.

[goose]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 4 2008, 01:32 PM)

QUOTE (goose @ Jun 4 2008, 12:15 AM) OK, anyone looking to go really deep into this film should read this. http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/07/...ade-runner.html Enjoy. That was a great read and pretty much covered everything of philosophical and artistic importance in the film. Glad you enjoyed it. Lots of ten-dollar words (dictionary, please! ), but very thought-provoking. Anything in particular that jumped out at you?