snakes and arrows production

[condemned2bfree]

Hi,

new to the forum so hi to you all!

 

Just like to share my sheer excitement for the new album, in particular the production.

I think the drum production is the best for a long time.

They are recorded (drums)in a very live manner and punch a hole for the rest of the instruments with plenty of reverb and space to create depth for the overall picture. At the end of the track the toms sound the closest since PW. They reverberate and are not limited too tightly and run on a little WHOO! I am a bit of an audiophile so I do apologise.

General levels are close to old rush albums in their balance- guitar and bass, and its not mastered to the compression of death levels as with VP. I just hope the song material is up to the standards that the guys can achieve.

 

Talking of VP

 

I have heard it said that vp should be re mastered or even mixed again.

I do not think so.

As a piece af art/expression it is as it was meant to be. It reflects maybe the space the guys were in at that point, and to me is a very human statement, you can never go back only forward, surely?

 

I cant wait..................but i must

[PuppetKing2112]

Are you just talking about Far Cry, or have you heard the whole thing?

[condemned2bfree]

I have Just heard far cry

[RobK71]

I downloaded Far Cry from iTunes Canada and was impressed with the production. I was a little skeptical after Vapor Trails and Feedback - with just cause. The thing that jumped at me the most was the bass and how prominent it is in the mix. Not that it usually isn't, but on this tune it grabbed my attention. The drums sound better than anything I've heard in a long time from Rush on a studio release.

 

The anticipation is killing me damn it!

 

[WCFIELDS]

The drum sound is great I agree....

If anything, the toms seem a little quiet in the chorus.

[invisibleairwaves]

What's VP?

[Weakly Criminal]

^

Vice President in charge of percussion of course!

[condemned2bfree]

ha ha I meant VT not vp

 

If you listen towards the end of fc around 5:12 to the floor toms I think, they sound lovely and open, not limited too much in their spill , remember the floor toms from jacobs ladder? mmmmmm lovely.

 

The only thing I would say is the snare fills every possible frequency in its range and is quite a fat signal for a snare, but I am so pleased with the overall live sounding drums.

Rush to me are the best live band out there, their albums should capture that. Obviously polished up in the production with a bit of a sheen. It seems they have cracked it with this one (FC so far) - a nice balance!

 

Its driving me nuts the wait, but fc is enough to chew on for now

[condemned2bfree]

Where do you think rush hit the mark with the production? I have heard it said many times that Terry brown was the golden era in production terms?

 

Counterparts is a fantastic album material wise and in production terms for a contemporary album. Snakes and arrows looks promising though. aghhhh!!!!!!!!

 

 

Its hard to tell the difference when they take their hats off

[yleekiyote]

With every passing year, new technology embraces us and makes the engineers look like rocket scientists. Has everyone seen the picture inside the studio with all the mics on Neil's kit? No reason why the drums shouldn't sound nice. He has at least two mics per tom and at least 3 on the bass, that I could tell. The drums should be in your face with this album.

 

VT had a different feel then previous work. They wanted to capture the drums but the mix seemed off to me. The songs almost sounded alike. The went for a more grungy sound and used distortion as it's lead in or filler. I guess this was still the juices flowing from Ged and Alex's solo efforts. Had they not released their albums, perhaps VT would have had a different sound. Alex release his prior to TFE. Not dis-crediting Ged and Alex for being creative but it really was a large leap into a direction Rush never went. Hence with a lot of post on here about their overall displeasure with VT. Over the years, their sound changed but you felt the previous album still there. TFE still had a CP feel to it, but began a more heavier sound. CP had it's moments but each album progressed nicely to the next.

 

I actually like VT because I looked at it as an expirement of change, not as the usual. I don't really base a measuring stick from their previous work. If it "rocks" then I'm happy. So I think we will all be rewarded with an outstanding album with S&A, and all of us will probably agree that it has been their best work in years.

[condemned2bfree]

There are so many ways of recording especially drums..

 

You can try to capture them as you hear them in a room, or more as the mike gets them, when you hear a kit you do not have your head next to the snare(as a mike is) unless your deaf like me.........pardon.

 

It really sounds like they have gone for the first option here, on snakes and ladders, as you would hear them, standing in a room, ala john bonham type room. Listen to shelley mann or any miles davis, man your there.

 

VT was more like straight in + compression. For all its faults I really like VT, as i have said it reflects the space the guys were maybe in, a very human record, - no ones perfect. Secret touch kicks ass , there are some great tunes there.

 

fc bodes so well for snakes and arrows

[mars_volta]

if you look at the amount of compression on the song, its not nearly as limited as VT. it breathes quite a bit actually. especially for a mp3.

[condemned2bfree]

Yeah i agree, theres a lot of headspace on FC, lovely jubbly!

 

VT - limited and then compressed?! in the mastering stage to the edge + some.

 

The levels between instruments are nice on FC, the snare does cut through...........a lot, a bit like on the r30 dvd and not like the snare on the rio dvd.

[mars_volta]

i thought the snare could use more 'body' to it ala signals. its just too much of a thin crack like on VT.

[condemned2bfree]

Do you know of anything about the way they recorded this one?

 

Are there any pics of drum set ups, some one mentioned two mics for drums and three for the bass drum, do you know how distanced they were?

 

I used to have a drum in the shape of a penis.......it was my phallic cymbal

[maxdistortion]

hey guys good thread...

 

as another fellow audiophile, from listening to Far Cry i noticed the guitars are ragingly loud, and while the bass is pretty loud also, I'm actually a bit surpised because for a RUSH album, Geddy isn't THAT loud in the mix, suprisingly. He has alot of bottom end but he doesnt have that same in-your-face "twang" he had on T4E or even VT/Feedback.

 

There is more dynamic range which is really cool (not squashed like on VT like most ppl noticed), however I'm kinda disappointed that as good as Neil's drums sound, they're not very loud in the mix either.

 

But thats the style these days...in the 80s everyone had big reverb and all that, in the 90s everything was stripped down w/o any effect at all, and now its all about having the guitars way up and drums way down.

 

my 2 cents. I cant wait to hear the rest of the album.

[maxdistortion]

QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Apr 2 2007, 02:38 PM)

Do you know of anything about the way they recorded this one? Are there any pics of drum set ups, some one mentioned two mics for drums and three for the bass drum, do you know how distanced they were? I used to have a drum in the shape of a penis.......it was my phallic cymbal

theres one pic of Neil during the recording process...

 

they used about 3 mics on the kick drum ALONE...tom toms were miked top AND bottom, there were about 4 overhead cymbals, and I'm assuming two mics at the back of that big room to capture the "bignesss" of that room's sound.

 

Rush also played in the same room and all at the same time, live basically...they're used to multitracking and layering all the parts but me thinks that the only overdubs they did was a few guitars and of course Geddy's vocals.

 

Both Neil and Alex have been quoted as saying that they loved the experience recording Feedback live in the same room, and that album had a very relaxed feel. they still played tightly but its not so regimented/picture perfect metronomic tempo.

[condemned2bfree]

There is certainly more dynamic range which is great.

 

I take you point with Alex's guitar on the heaviest bits, it's way up there in the mix - a hint of the 'wall of sound' in the reviews. - a sound of the times, me thinks

 

The instruments are produced/mixed exceptionally well. Neils drums have a space poked out, with the reverb and ambiance which adds to the seperation of the guitar and bass. They probably brought in the 4 cymbal mikes as leakage a little in addition to the two mikes you mentioned at the back.

I did think geds bass had less bottom end but its good mmmm.

Ive noticed live, they go bottom end mad (requesting it??) sometimes.

 

Its great to hear they have gone back to a more playing live scenario for recording whoooohooo! for the backbone/ structure of the song, you can always go back for overdubs

[condemned2bfree]

Yes geds bass does not have as much twang or buzz, it sounds like its been shelved around here 3hz-20hz somewhere or something?

[DonB]

I think a big part of the VT compressed sound production is from the nature of the compositions themselves. No keyboards and a sound shoved in every hole. I sense a flavor of urgency mixed with a pinch of anger in the sound and song structures of VT. I suspect that S&A will represent Rush's real return after the adversity they suffered in the late '90's. A step forward in the future of Rush under more natural and normal circumstances. We will soon see.

[condemned2bfree]

 

 

 

We need an art to survive the drool - fz

[condemned2bfree]

Geds bass has not as much twng and rattle as other outings, maybe shelved/lowered 2k-20k or something within the mix. I mean they would shelve the finished mix in mastering around 12k - 20k which is moving really high- air

 

The bass sound on fc sounds a bit like the bass he pulls out for 2112 (rio +r30) that red beauty. For a more metal mayhem rumpy pumpin sound.

 

Has anyone got an audio image of FC?

 

I remember there was a guy on the net a while back who went through rush's albums and how the compression steadily increased, through the year's, climaxing with a VT clipped audio picture. It would be interesting to see how FC compares.

[lunkhead]

Yes, drums sound fabulous, the mix is similar to Hemispheres or PW. BUT, the golden mix on Moving Pictures had the guitar much more up front and defined than Alex's recent "wash" of sound (as opposed to wall of sound). I think that's what put MP over the top as far as endurability. But overall Far Cry has a nice sounding "classic" pre-MP mix.

[Alph Seeker]

Regarding the original post and VT:

 

As a piece af art/expression it is as it was meant to be.

 

Do we know this? Unless we do, it's quite possible that VT was NOT what Geddy, Alex and Neil meant it to be. I actually recall reading something around this time (pre-release) for VT where Alex called Geddy from Hawaii, I think - anyway saying he was worried because he didn't like the way it sounded. Geddy reassured him it was great and to go to the tiki bar or something . I may be wrong about all that, just a memory, but seriously - I would hope that if something did not go as planned with VT that G, A and N would encourage a re-mix or re-master.

 

I know very little about album production and am not really an audiophile, but I gather that people who do know this stuff were surprised that VT was mixed/mastered as it was. Now, if that type of production was being done as a type of tool to achieve a certain sound, and that sound was achieved, then I guess we have what we have. Know what I mean? Similar to a distortion effect on guitar. That is an intentional change to the 'pure' sound that some people like and others think sounds crappy.

 

PS -- how do you quote a prior post the correct way, anyway??

[condemned2bfree]

What I meant by 'as a piece of art/expression (regarding VT) it is as it was meant to be' is that the guys seem pretty circumspect when it comes to music and I magine the whole of the recording process.

 

 

Maybe because of events leading up to VT and with the long hiatus, they wern't that on the ball - overseeing things on the final stages of mastering, I mean they are only human........arn't they?

 

Maybe they don't have that much control with the final mastering, but I think they do. I know record companies like to ram it down the publics throat, or even ears.

 

In retrospect I imagine they are not totally chuffed with the mastering of VT.

 

One things for sure chums, they have not repeated the same methods with snakes and arrows whooo!