Grandpa Grizz Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 This is odd. I voted for Moving Pictures, even though Vapor Trails is my favourite Rush album. Actually, MP isn't even in my top five faves. However, it is one of Rush's very few perfect albums, and one of the greatest albums of all time, IMO. I do still get a kick out of listening to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE (Rolinda Bonz @ Sep 3 2006, 08:58 PM) QUOTE (Fridge @ Sep 3 2006, 04:37 AM)QUOTE (different strings @ Sep 3 2006, 12:11 PM) Great choice of words Mr Duck Hmmm... So a simple dismissal of someone elses opinion impresses you more than the reasoned reply that I gave to explain why I though the way I did a couple of posts later? http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/RolindaBonz/bs.gif Reasoned reply? You offered no logical argument...just your opinion and a handful of insults toward Rush and rush fans. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/RolindaBonz/annoyed.gif You have a strange notion of insults. can you clarify exactly how I "insulted" anyone, as I have re-read my post and can only see an expressed opinion ( which is usually what a reasoned argument is, no?) Surely people can't be that defensive over a band for Gods sake! And as for insulting Rush fans, all I stated was that some are too uncritical. Again, as you have said yourself, it's only an opinion, and really something that shouldn't be taken personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE (Fridge @ Sep 3 2006, 02:04 PM) QUOTE (Rolinda Bonz @ Sep 3 2006, 08:58 PM) QUOTE (Fridge @ Sep 3 2006, 04:37 AM)QUOTE (different strings @ Sep 3 2006, 12:11 PM) Great choice of words Mr Duck Hmmm... So a simple dismissal of someone elses opinion impresses you more than the reasoned reply that I gave to explain why I though the way I did a couple of posts later? http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/RolindaBonz/bs.gif Reasoned reply? You offered no logical argument...just your opinion and a handful of insults toward Rush and rush fans. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/RolindaBonz/annoyed.gif You have a strange notion of insults. can you clarify exactly how I "insulted" anyone, as I have re-read my post and can only see an expressed opinion ( which is usually what a reasoned argument is, no?) Surely people can't be that defensive over a band for Gods sake! And as for insulting Rush fans, all I stated was that some are too uncritical. Again, as you have said yourself, it's only an opinion, and really something that shouldn't be taken personally Amen. Good grief, people. It's my favorite band too, but that doesn't mean that it's required that I (or anyone else) should worship everything that they release, is it? Fridge should be allowed to his opinion without having to deal with people being blatantly rude about it. That's just not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolinda Bonz Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 QUOTE (Fridge @ Sep 3 2006, 02:04 PM)QUOTE (Rolinda Bonz @ Sep 3 2006, 08:58 PM) QUOTE (Fridge @ Sep 3 2006, 04:37 AM)QUOTE (different strings @ Sep 3 2006, 12:11 PM) Great choice of words Mr Duck Hmmm... So a simple dismissal of someone elses opinion impresses you more than the reasoned reply that I gave to explain why I though the way I did a couple of posts later? http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/RolindaBonz/bs.gif Reasoned reply? You offered no logical argument...just your opinion and a handful of insults toward Rush and rush fans. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/RolindaBonz/annoyed.gif You have a strange notion of insults. can you clarify exactly how I "insulted" anyone, as I have re-read my post and can only see an expressed opinion ( which is usually what a reasoned argument is, no?) Surely people can't be that defensive over a band for Gods sake! And as for insulting Rush fans, all I stated was that some are too uncritical. Again, as you have said yourself, it's only an opinion, and really something that shouldn't be taken personally Dear Fridge, I aplogize if I misunderstood. Since you asked, I will highlight the points that I perceived to be insulting, but I promise not to lose any sleep over them. QUOTE One album (Moving Pictures) recorded when they still had creativity and inspiration in abundance and the other (VT) a floundering death gasp from the sunset of their career These opinions are stated here in an objective manner, as if they are facts about the band. I could not argue if you explained how you felt about this or that album, but you state them as if that's how it is. QUOTE As with all their albums I will judge it purely on merit. I have never been one for slavishly liking everything by one artist, and with Rush this has always been the case for me. Why would you even use the word "slavishly" among Rush fans? QUOTE Saying that, there has (IMO) been a pretty steady decline in their output since Presto (though that was partially halted with T4E) and I cannot see that being abruptly reversed with the latest offering. Some fans don't enjoy the 90's material...we've had polls about it. Some fans like those albums the best. How do you explain that? Is it likely that our favorite musicians' talents and skills have regressed even as new fans are born with every album, or do you think maybe its just a different flavor of Rush that perhaps doesn't work for you personally? I see your "IMO" stamp up there, but what you're saying is brutal whether it's an opinion or not. What if I said, "In my opinion, Fledge is an asshole." Just because I throw some IMO disclaimer on it, doesn't negate it's mean and untrue nature. QUOTE What some overly uncritical fans appear unable to grasp however (and I'm not saying you are neccessarily one, Treeduck) is that people like myself desperately want to be wrong about this. I would love the boys to pull a rabbit from the hat and produce a cracker, but I just can't see it happening. [interpretation] What you dumbasses can't seem to understand (but I don't have to the balls to go head to head with any one individual) is that I'm better than all of you....and Rush, too. I have no hope for any of you. [/interpretation] There now, was that so uncritical? Can you see why I originally felt insulted? No? Not even one of them? Did the last one make you laugh? It was supposed to. Anyway, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I realize now that you really love Rush...and, uh, came here to find others who hear what you do. on, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudzu Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 In his opinion, it is true, and it's not a personal insult any more than me saying, "The Rolling Stones haven't been good since 1973," should be taken as a personal insult. That's silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 QUOTE (Rolinda Bonz @ Sep 4 2006, 01:27 AM)Dear Fridge, I aplogize if I misunderstood. Since you asked, I will highlight the points that I perceived to be insulting, but I promise not to lose any sleep over them. QUOTE One album (Moving Pictures) recorded when they still had creativity and inspiration in abundance and the other (VT) a floundering death gasp from the sunset of their career QUOTE As with all their albums I will judge it purely on merit. I have never been one for slavishly liking everything by one artist, and with Rush this has always been the case for me. QUOTE Saying that, there has (IMO) been a pretty steady decline in their output since Presto (though that was partially halted with T4E) and I cannot see that being abruptly reversed with the latest offering. Some fans don't enjoy the 90's material...we've had polls about it. Some fans like those albums the best. How do you explain that? Is it likely that our favorite musicians' talents and skills have regressed even as new fans are born with every album, or do you think maybe its just a different flavor of Rush that perhaps doesn't work for you personally? QUOTE What some overly uncritical fans appear unable to grasp however (and I'm not saying you are neccessarily one, Treeduck) is that people like myself desperately want to be wrong about this. I would love the boys to pull a rabbit from the hat and produce a cracker, but I just can't see it happening. There now, was that so uncritical? Can you see why I originally felt insulted? No? Not even one of them? Did the last one make you laugh? It was supposed to. Anyway, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I realize now that you really love Rush...and, uh, came here to find others who hear what you do. on, man! QUOTE These opinions are stated here in an objective manner, as if they are facts about the band. I could not argue if you explained how you felt about this or that album, but you state them as if that's how it is. Well, that how it is to ME. Surely I cannot put a disclaimer about every opinion I hold? personally, i didn't think it was neccessary to qualify every statement as I thought the fact these were my opinion was self-evident. Nevertheless, I will try to do so in future if I am coming across in a way I don't intend to. I would point out however, that in just about every poll I have seen (not just on this site), there is overwhelming agreement that the 76-82 period was their strongest creatively, so conventional wisdom would lend some support to my statement. QUOTE Why would you even use the word "slavishly" among Rush fans? I think you have misunderstood me there. I used the word to highlight my listening patterns(ie the fact that I judge each and every song I hear by any artist purely on its own merits) and this was in no way directed at anyone else. Apologies if I gave you that impression. QUOTE I see your "IMO" stamp up there, but what you're saying is brutal whether it's an opinion or not. What if I said, "In my opinion, Fledge is an asshole." Just because I throw some IMO disclaimer on it, doesn't negate it's mean and untrue nature. I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways. earlier on, you state that you could agree more if I had qualified a "statement". I have done this here, and I think that you perceive it as brutal because it is an opinion you do not like. To compare it with a direct insult on someone is taking it out of context somewhat and is an unfair comparison. Anyway, I was very careful to point out thart I actually don't like having these views, but feel that honesty compells me to have them. I cannot lie. I DO feel that the present day output is vastly inferior to days gone by. If others disagree with me then that is their prerogative. QUOTE [interpretation] What you dumbasses can't seem to understand (but I don't have to the balls to go head to head with any one individual) is that I'm better than all of you....and Rush, too. I have no hope for any of you. [/interpretation] You're right...It did make me laugh (Its also quite untrue for the benefit of anyone literally minded) Finally, yes I do love Rush...well , a good slice of it. You see, I tend to listen to individual songs and apply my own criteria. I genuinely don't care who the artist was. If a song is good, its good-end of story. It is a happy coincidence that approximately 60-70% of Rush's output come into this category for me, which is a phenomenal ratio indeed. it doesn't mean that I will be automatically favourably disposed to the next offering however. The good thing about this is that I will listen without predjudice, but I think it is likely that I will be disappointed once more. I really hope I'm wrong....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 QUOTE (Fridge @ Sep 2 2006, 11:15 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Sep 3 2006, 07:50 AM) QUOTE (Fridge @ Sep 3 2006, 12:57 AM) How can anyone even think there is a competition here? One album (Moving Pictures) recorded when they still had creativity and inspiration in abundance and the other (VT) a floundering death gasp from the sunset of their career No contest really Sounds like you won't be interested in their new "death gasp" when it's released then? Don't worry though, if you do get curious we'll tell you all about it... To clarify: As with all their albums I will judge it purely on merit. I have never been one for slavishly liking everything by one artist, and with Rush this has always been the case for me. There are songs from earlier in their canon (yes, even the "golden" years) that are total howlers and I see no harm in cherry picking the wheat from the chaff. Saying that, there has (IMO) been a pretty steady decline in their output since Presto (though that was partially halted with T4E) and I cannot see that being abruptly reversed with the latest offering. What some overly uncritical fans appear unable to grasp however (and I'm not saying you are neccessarily one, Treeduck) is that people like myself desperately want to be wrong about this. I would love the boys to pull a rabbit from the hat and produce a cracker, but I just can't see it happening. For me, I supppose it's just the cumulative dissapointment of watching my favourite band of the last twenty-six years go through such a prolonged deterioration, and having been on the whole disillusioned with them for the past sixteen of these years. I really just don't want my hopes dashed yet again, but we shall see...... I for the most part agree with Fridge here, except I would say there has been a steady decline post-HYF that was halted briefly for isolated moments, and one great album in Counterparts. Like him, these are my OPINIONS only and should be taken only as such, even if they violently disagree with yours. I too was bitterly dissapointed by VT and wished like you couldn't believe that I felt differently about it, but after a dozen listens, I couldn't make myself like it. I too am equally as pessimistic about Rush pulling out a genius album like they used to. No one would be happier than I if it happened, but it would be a massive turning of the tide if they did. Personally, I'm SHOCKED that of 35 voters, 10 have voted VT as better than Moving Pictures. I mean To quote Will Farrell in Zoolander, "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" It's like saying what's better, The Godfather or Dude, Where's My Car or would you rather have steak and lobster or lima beans and brussel sprouts. I guess there are some who prefer Dude, Where's My Car and the lima beans, but almost 30%? I really think there must be other elements that cause people to love VT (not to mention why people get so disproportionately upset if you don't like it) other than just purely the music taken on it's own merits, like what Neil went through and the band returning after tragedy and a 6-year absence, because if you put them head to head musically on their own merits, to me I would think you were making a bad joke even in asking the question. Maybe Rush fans are biased for a variety of reasons, but I would bet if you played both albums for non-Rush fans, close to 100% would choose MP as the obviously superior album. What's next? Who's better - Jimi Hendrix or Britney Spears? P.S. - If I've offended you, just like Fridge offended some, realize you're being offended by OPINIONS. We're entitled to them as everyone else is, and no one is TRYING to insult anyone just by expressing them. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 4 2006, 12:24 PM) P.S. - If I've offended you, just like Fridge offended some, realize you're being offended by OPINIONS. We're entitled to them as everyone else is, and no one is TRYING to insult anyone just by expressing them. Peace. Well said Goober, though you are of course wrong about Counterparts It was certainly not my intention to offend anyone, but apologies if I did so. It was only opinions, if I really want an argument I'll go pick a fight with my wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 QUOTE (Fridge @ Sep 4 2006, 03:54 AM)QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 4 2006, 12:24 PM) P.S. - If I've offended you, just like Fridge offended some, realize you're being offended by OPINIONS. We're entitled to them as everyone else is, and no one is TRYING to insult anyone just by expressing them. Peace. Well said Goober, though you are of course wrong about Counterparts Why, you offensive bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 4 2006, 01:07 PM) Why, you offensive bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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