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Geddy's voice sounds just fine!


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#21 metaldad

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:16 AM

Good or Bad, this road is almost over. Enjoy while you can

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#22 Cyclonus X-1

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:03 PM

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Nov 26 2011, 09:11 PM)
It can't be argued that he does not enunciate the words as well as he used to. It can't be argued that he is singing in a lower pitch than he used to. These are quantifiable statements and are not subjective. You can say he's better now than ever, and that's fine. That's a valid opinion. But the fact is that he is different now.

I'm not sure why the discussion had to extend beyond this post.  These are indeed facts, and the poster stated them without berating Geddy, or suggesting that Geddy should retire, or insinuating that he himself will be able to sing better at age 60, or doing any of the other nonsense that the ultra-loyalists constantly accuse the "haters" of doing.  

Of course, he (and others) have already stated said facts in six or so other threads on this same topic, yet the debates drag on.  Honestly, aside from that one guy who trolls incessantly (and whom people know not to take seriously), the people who have commented on the decline in Geddy's vocals have stated their points very civilly and articulately.  Unfortunately, for some reason, others insist on taking these comments as assaults on Geddy; they seem to read "he doesn't enunciate as well as he once did" as "he's unspeakably horrible and should retire at once."  If the points are taken as they're actually being stated, there really isn't much to argue about.    

#23 danielmclark

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:46 PM

QUOTE (Cyclonus X-1 @ Nov 27 2011, 11:03 AM)
QUOTE (danielmclark @ Nov 26 2011, 09:11 PM)
It can't be argued that he does not enunciate the words as well as he used to. It can't be argued that he is singing in a lower pitch than he used to. These are quantifiable statements and are not subjective. You can say he's better now than ever, and that's fine. That's a valid opinion. But the fact is that he is different now.

I'm not sure why the discussion had to extend beyond this post.  These are indeed facts, and the poster stated them without berating Geddy, or suggesting that Geddy should retire, or insinuating that he himself will be able to sing better at age 60, or doing any of the other nonsense that the ultra-loyalists constantly accuse the "haters" of doing.  

Of course, he (and others) have already stated said facts in six or so other threads on this same topic, yet the debates drag on.  Honestly, aside from that one guy who trolls incessantly (and whom people know not to take seriously), the people who have commented on the decline in Geddy's vocals have stated their points very civilly and articulately.  Unfortunately, for some reason, others insist on taking these comments as assaults on Geddy; they seem to read "he doesn't enunciate as well as he once did" as "he's unspeakably horrible and should retire at once."  If the points are taken as they're actually being stated, there really isn't much to argue about.

Bingo.

As for why this is yet another thread and it keeps on going... what else are we gonna talk about? biggrin.gif laugh.gif

#24 Superbaldguy

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:48 AM

Sorry to open up this can of worms, let's just enjoy Ged and his buddies for as long as they are still having fun and wanting to play.

#25 softfilter

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 02:01 PM

I think for the Clock work Angels tour, Rush should strip  every thing down to the bare bones empty stage one spotlight.  And to save Geddy's voice make it into a 60's beatnik poetry recital of there songs like Henry Rollins or in the style of Lou Reed. Neil on bongos(R30 or was it S&A acoustic set?) and Alex on tambourine being his silly self......... tongue.gif  

#26 EmotionDetector

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 27 2011, 12:16 PM)
Good or Bad, this road is almost over. Enjoy while you can

Exactly.

This is the way I think as well. Whether we like it or not, the road ahead is much shorter than the one behind for the boys.

Listen, does Ged sound worse than before? I guess it seems subjective based on who you ask.

BUT...the biggest thing I noticed above everything else on the TM video is how much FUN the guys seem to be having. Seriously. That's what I loved about TM. I mean...look at Neil!

That part coming out of the awesomely, never-tiring, ridiculous bridge/solo part on Freewill...Neil makes that goofy smiley face at Ged & Alex. One of my favourite parts of the concert. His interactions with Alex during the first verses of Subdivisions are great as well.

I mean, for everyone who craps on Neil's personality and whatnot; he shows that he is not only professional and spot-on during the concert...but he also seems to be enjoying himself alot more these days!

It's all great IMO.  1022.gif  

#27 garyg7133

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:23 AM

All of Geddy's vocal performances over the past 15 years or so have had undeniable differences. His voice has mellowed a lot which suits their newer music. My first impression of TM live ws "wow, there are a lot of rough spots". My wife was less forgiving and said " Jesus, what happened to him?". Since I started listening to TM live I've gotten over it. As I remember it, he had a couple of shrill spots during the Allentown PA show and @ MSG as well. Doesn't bother me and it sure as hell isn't going to stop me from seeing them. Frankly, I'm amazed he can do it at all considering how many shows were crammed into this tour. Kinda makes me wonder if they were doing 2 shows a week rather than 3-4 if he would have fared a little better. As for the comparisons with Waters, Really? It is apples vs. hand grenades. Theyr'e not even in the same vocal range by far. One guy is hitting notes that a lot of female singers can't hit and the other is just kinda serenading you to sleep.....kida like listening to Bob Ross....

#28 drgrendel

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:59 PM

  "These are quantifiable statements and are not subjective. You can say he's better now than ever, and that's fine. That's a valid opinion. But the fact is that he is different now."

Ok...I'll bite...quantify that statement with something other than "the fact is he is different now."  I want to see the data...  Really enjoy reading posts from those who write big but cannot back any of it up...QUANTIFY IT!



#29 danielmclark

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:52 PM

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 11:59 AM)
"These are quantifiable statements and are not subjective. You can say he's better now than ever, and that's fine. That's a valid opinion. But the fact is that he is different now."

Ok...I'll bite...quantify that statement with something other than "the fact is he is different now."  I want to see the data...  Really enjoy reading posts from those who write big but cannot back any of it up...QUANTIFY IT!

You want someone to load up Adobe Audition and compare the vocals? That can be done, you know. It's beyond my personal skillset, but there are those that can isolate the vocals and compare them. If you're saying it can't be done, then you're just a fool - and I really enjoy reading posts from those who challenge others but don't have any idea what they're talking about.

So yes, in other words, the differences in the vocal performances are QUANTI-FKING-FIABLE.



Also - are you seriously suggesting that he's NOT any different now? Because that would be a mighty interesting stance to take.

#30 drgrendel

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 03:35 PM

Yup - he is different now.  I want to see you back up your quantifiable claim is all.  Can you do it or not?  Sort of akin to a prosecutor claiming that he/she can prove the guilt of the accused then when called upon to provide evidence, they sheepishly admit  that they would do so if the could.  

Where are the numbers?

Edited by drgrendel, 29 November 2011 - 03:38 PM.


#31 StellarJetman

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 02:35 PM)
Yup - he is different now.  I want to see you back up your quantifiable claim is all.  Can you do it or not?  Sort of akin to a prosecutor claiming that he/she can prove the guilt of the accused then when called upon to provide evidence, they sheepishly admit  that they would do so if the could. 

Where are the numbers?

PhphhfbbfhbbbHAHAHAHAHA!

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that Geddy's severely reduced vocal range at age 58 not only ISN'T detrimental to his singing but isn't even QUANTIFIABLE as well?  Say that to ANY producer on the face of the earth and he'll be rolling on the floor.  And, yes, the fact is that opening the audio in a sound editor, isolating the vocals, and comparing the NUMERICAL VALUES of the pitches involved is something that can be done, just not by danielmclark.  What part of "personal skillset" are you incapable of understanding?  Heck, what part of the word "quantifiable" don't you understand?  I believe that the distance between Seattle and Miami is quantifiably greater than that between Saint Louis and Chicago, but I'm not going to travel cross-country with a team of surveyors just to make the point.

Anyone with ears and an Internet connection can tell you that Geddy doesn't hit the high notes like he used to, and it's absolutely ridiculous that you're demanding for danielmclark to go to the trouble of wringing "the numbers" from a sound editor to "provide evidence" that it's the case.

Edited by StellarJetman, 29 November 2011 - 05:04 PM.


#32 danielmclark

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 06:05 PM

QUOTE (StellarJetman @ Nov 29 2011, 03:54 PM)
QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 02:35 PM)
Yup - he is different now.  I want to see you back up your quantifiable claim is all.  Can you do it or not?  Sort of akin to a prosecutor claiming that he/she can prove the guilt of the accused then when called upon to provide evidence, they sheepishly admit  that they would do so if the could. 

Where are the numbers?

PhphhfbbfhbbbHAHAHAHAHA!

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that Geddy's severely reduced vocal range at age 58 not only ISN'T detrimental to his singing but isn't even QUANTIFIABLE as well?  Say that to ANY producer on the face of the earth and he'll be rolling on the floor.  And, yes, the fact is that opening the audio in a sound editor, isolating the vocals, and comparing the NUMERICAL VALUES of the pitches involved is something that can be done, just not by danielmclark.  What part of "personal skillset" are you incapable of understanding?  Heck, what part of the word "quantifiable" don't you understand?  I believe that the distance between Seattle and Miami is quantifiably greater than that between Saint Louis and Chicago, but I'm not going to travel cross-country with a team of surveyors just to make the point.

Anyone with ears and an Internet connection can tell you that Geddy doesn't hit the high notes like he used to, and it's absolutely ridiculous that you're demanding for danielmclark to go to the trouble of wringing "the numbers" from a sound editor to "provide evidence" that it's the case.

What he said.


Okay, now that we have that cleared up...

#33 drgrendel

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:21 PM

I know that his voice is different and I agree that there has been a change over the years.What i want to know is the the degree of quantifiable difference.  Is that so much to ask of someone who claimed that there was a quantifiable difference?  It is akin to someone who states that there is a quantifiable difference between those who listen to country music and those who listen to heavy metal mucic in relation to violence.  Ok...what is the difference and is the difference meaningful?  

One shoe is left out there and I wish to know what the quantifiable difference is.  Any stat person would wish to know...

If you cannot produce this...then suggest who might be able quantify this for me.  However, please do not expect me to accept your word for this.  As the joke goes, "How do people in NY say trust me?"  

#34 danielmclark

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 06:21 PM)
I know that his voice is different and I agree that there has been a change over the years.What i want to know is the the degree of quantifiable difference.  Is that so much to ask of someone who claimed that there was a quantifiable difference?  It is akin to someone who states that there is a quantifiable difference between those who listen to country music and those who listen to heavy metal mucic in relation to violence.  Ok...what is the difference and is the difference meaningful?  

One shoe is left out there and I wish to know what the quantifiable difference is.  Any stat person would wish to know...

If you cannot produce this...then suggest who might be able quantify this for me.  However, please do not expect me to accept your word for this.  As the joke goes, "How do people in NY say trust me?"

You wouldn't know what to do with comparison waveforms anyway, so anyone with the skills to isolate the vocals on the commercial CDs would be wasting his time with you anyway.

Let me ask you something. Have you ever flown around the world? How do you know it's round? Have you ever been to the bottom of an ocean? How do you know it's dark down there? See, because you've taken people's words for a *lot* of things in your life. But you figured you'd come in here and dump all over me for something that you *thought* you could get away with. You can't. You've lost this challenge. Anyone with half a brain can hear that Geddy's voice is different than it used to be and audio processing software is able to quantify the differences because that's what audio processing software does.

The only way this conversation could get more retarded is if you told me you believe in God, Mr. "Show Me The Numbers"  eyesre4.gif

Go back and read StellarJetman's response again. He sums this up perfectly.

#35 GeddysMullet

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:23 PM

I can't believe this stupid argument is still going on.  Of course Geddy's voice is different than it used to be, anyone with half an ear can hear that.  He cannot sing the way he used to be able to sing.  That is a fact.  What isn't a fact is that his being unable to sing the way he used to sing automatically means that he is no longer a good singer.

People who loved the way Geddy sang 30 years ago might not particularly care for the way he sings now and might wish that he could still sing that way, but that doesn't mean that he is no longer a good singer.  He sounds DIFFERENT than he used to, but  "different" does NOT automatically equate to "bad" or "worse."

If a person doesn't care for the way that Geddy sings now, that's fair enough, but there's a world of difference between "I don't care for the way Geddy sings now" and "Geddy can't sing anymore."  Clearly, there are many people who don't like the way that Geddy sings now, and just as clearly, there are many people who do.  There is no way to prove or to quantify which of these views is right and which is wrong, because hey guess what...NEITHER is!

Why is this so difficult to understand?  confused13.gif  confused13.gif  

#36 1 of the 7

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:00 PM

I think the real crux of the matter these days is whether one wants to spend their time debating with those who are critical of the changes going on in the band, or celebrate whatever they enjoyed about the band and/or still do. If you're in the latter camp, there are other places you're better served (sorry). I'm quickly realizing I fall into the latter category; I'm too conflict-averse for a lot of what's going on on this board (and not just the stuff about Rush; it's all getting way too personal). For me, the Facebook Rush groups have a lot more of my kind of vibe. I'm thinking that when I get busy with a second job this month and am forced to spend less time here, it may not be a bad thing. I'd think about pulling up stakes entirely if I didn't have a decent amount of time and interaction built up here.

It's tough for me as a new fan. I want to find others who get what I fell in love with a year and three months ago, but its proving more difficult than I thought. I never thought I'd have to come in and justify myself to the band's own fans.

Edited by 1 of the 7, 29 November 2011 - 10:05 PM.


#37 drgrendel

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:02 PM

I happen to like his vocals better now than 30 years ago.  As one observer put it, his voice is more mature, thus has changed.  I am happy for that since progress and dealing with what life throws at you is a good thing.  I personallly find it difficult to listen to earlier Rush efforts because I do prefer vocal style now.

Regarding the poster who stated that I would not know what to do with the information anyway, please do not judge my abilities based upon your limitations.

I deal with data and statistics as part of my profession.  I am curious to know what the data would look like is all.  Curiousity man - plain and simple.

Edited by drgrendel, 29 November 2011 - 10:04 PM.


#38 StellarJetman

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:38 PM

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 09:02 PM)
I happen to like his vocals better now than 30 years ago.  As one observer put it, his voice is more mature, thus has changed.  I am happy for that since progress and dealing with what life throws at you is a good thing.

His voice "matured" years ago.  It's been deteriorating for some time now.

There's a middle ground between screeching and groaning, you know.  I'd say that Geddy hit its zenith on Counterparts, but pretty much anything between, say, Hold Your Fire and Vapor Trails would work.

Seriously, you're acting like he went straight from Hemispheres to Snakes and Arrows without any mellowing in between.

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 09:02 PM)
I deal with data and statistics as part of my profession.  I am curious to know what the data would look like is all.  Curiousity man - plain and simple.

user posted image: Geddy doesn't have the range that he had three and a half decades ago.  He doesn't even have the range that he had three and a half years ago.

user posted image: Pfft.  You say that he doesn't, but can you prove that he doesn't?

user posted image: Whether you like or dislike his voice now, it's irrelevant to the observable, measurable [NOTE: THIS IS THE MEANING OF THE WORD "QUANTIFIABLE".] fact that it's different.

user posted image: Heh, this is just like that song on Presto.  Show me, don't tell me!  OH, WAIT, YOU CAN'T.

user posted image: Things that are physically different can be measured, numbskull.  He's not going to learn how to use a sound editor, grab the relevant audio off of YouTube, strip the vocals, and compare their pitches just to prove to you that it can be done.

user posted image: ...What he said.

user posted image: Nonononono, guys, I was just curious, that's all!  There's obviously a difference; I just want to know how different they are.  Look, you can see in my edited posts that I always agreed with you and totally know what the word "quantifiable" means!

facepalm.gif

Edited by StellarJetman, 30 November 2011 - 09:01 AM.


#39 danielmclark

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 01:18 AM

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Nov 29 2011, 09:02 PM)
Regarding the poster who stated that I would not know what to do with the information anyway, please do not judge my abilities based upon your limitations.

I'm not. I'm judging your abilities according to what you've said in this thread. Earlier, you refused to believe that vocals are able to be compared and quantified. What on earth would make me think you would have any idea what to do with comparison waveforms?

As for your "plain and simple curiosity" - someone who is genuinely curious about something generally doesn't begin the quest for knowledge by insulting someone and then arguing with him when the answer comes back (and from an additional source, no less).

You should probably give up now.  bitchslap.gif  

#40 Enemy Within 77

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 01:51 AM

You two need to just blow each other and get it over with! This is f***ing ridiculous. moon.gif  




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