Jump to content


Very Interesting Article...


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1 launchpad67a

launchpad67a

    Armchair rocket scientist graffiti existentialist

  • Moderator
  • 4189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Phoenix, Arizona
  • Interests:Professional musician, web designer, sound engineer, studio owner, licensed pyrotechnician.
    I am also an avid golfer, drinker and smoker.

Posted 19 October 2004 - 04:55 PM

I'm sure this has been posted here before I was a member but I figured it is still a great and interesting article.
This is so common on todays recordings and it's a real shame.
Read This!!
Over The Limit


Sponsored Post

#2 RushRevisited

RushRevisited

    The Hailing Administrator

  • Admin
  • 21838 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio
  • Interests:My Family, Music, Golf, Astronomy

Posted 19 October 2004 - 05:40 PM

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Oct 19 2004, 05:55 PM)
I'm sure this has been posted here before I was a member but I figured it is still a great and interesting article.
This is so common on todays recordings and it's a real shame.
Read This!!
Over The Limit

Thanks Launch!!  After reading the thread below this on remasters, this article popped into mind about Vapor Trails and why it sounds like crap!   GREAT article and I highly recommend reading all of it if you are at all curious why Vapor Trails sounds as it does!

#3 launchpad67a

launchpad67a

    Armchair rocket scientist graffiti existentialist

  • Moderator
  • 4189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Phoenix, Arizona
  • Interests:Professional musician, web designer, sound engineer, studio owner, licensed pyrotechnician.
    I am also an avid golfer, drinker and smoker.

Posted 19 October 2004 - 06:04 PM

Yep, I think everyone should read this.

#4 Midway Hawker

Midway Hawker

    The Great Cornholio

  • Moderator
  • 5096 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Between Sun and Moon
  • Interests:Rush, Poker, Golf, Basketball, and Sarcasm

Posted 19 October 2004 - 06:36 PM

That is a fantastic article!!  

I'm a complete novice when it comes to Audio..  But even I am beginning to understand why CP sounds so good!!   And VT sounds the way it does..   I always described VT's mix as "dirty", "too loud"..  Now it makes more sense than ever!!  Like the author, I sure hope it was the mastering so we can hear a remastered version some day.

How many of you think the Counterparts album is the best Rush "recording"??  I always have, but never really understood why.  I love the VT album too, but it is a bit "over the top" with clipping and volume.  

Thanks for posting, that was a great read!!

2.gif  

#5 daveyt

daveyt

    Non Sequitur

  • Members *
  • 8219 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 October 2004 - 06:51 PM

test 4 echo sounds awesome, too. really awesome.

#6 daveyt

daveyt

    Non Sequitur

  • Members *
  • 8219 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 October 2004 - 06:51 PM

p.s. nice sig mike

#7 daveyt

daveyt

    Non Sequitur

  • Members *
  • 8219 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 19 October 2004 - 06:52 PM

pps hi EARTHSHINE

#8 Dave G

Dave G

    Long Awaited Froind

  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan, USA
  • Interests:I released my first CD, Immovable Mover, in 2003. The new disc, Reality Show, should be out in the later part of autumn 2004.

Posted 19 October 2004 - 07:00 PM

QUOTE

How many of you think the Counterparts album is the best Rush "recording"??

Yep, I agree, I think CP has the best overall production sound, even if it may not be my favorite album from a song standpoint (although there are a lot of songs I love on CP).

The Rip Rowan article has made the rounds quite a few times in the last year or two, and with the diagrams, it does a good job of explaining even to those with no background in audio the problems with overcompression/overlimiting. Anyone who has done a fair amount of recording and worked with compressors/limiters knows what happens to the sound when you start squeezing it too hard - it becomes increasingly lifeless and "smeared" sounding, not to mention ear fatiguing. It's like trying to pass a river through a soda straw.

Last time I had a CD mastered, I specifically told the mastering engineer that I wasn't interested in trying to one-up anybody in "The Great Volume War" and to be more conservative with the average level. I ended up with an album that plays at roughly the same average level as Test for Echo and was reasonably loud but not noticably overcompressed. So what if you have to turn your stereo's volume up a little when you pop in a disc? Once you raise the volume knob, it's apt to have a much more pleasing sound than the discs that were FLASH FRIED in mastering to try and make them louder than everybody else's. wink.gif

Edited by Dave G, 19 October 2004 - 07:01 PM.


#9 RushRevisited

RushRevisited

    The Hailing Administrator

  • Admin
  • 21838 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio
  • Interests:My Family, Music, Golf, Astronomy

Posted 19 October 2004 - 07:12 PM

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Oct 19 2004, 07:36 PM)
That is a fantastic article!!  

I'm a complete novice when it comes to Audio..  But even I am beginning to understand why CP sounds so good!!   And VT sounds the way it does..   I always described VT's mix as "dirty", "too loud"..  Now it makes more sense than ever!!  Like the author, I sure hope it was the mastering so we can hear a remastered version some day.

How many of you think the Counterparts album is the best Rush "recording"??  I always have, but never really understood why.  I love the VT album too, but it is a bit "over the top" with clipping and volume.  

Thanks for posting, that was a great read!!

2.gif

Counterparts is just next to perfect.  

#10 launchpad67a

launchpad67a

    Armchair rocket scientist graffiti existentialist

  • Moderator
  • 4189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Phoenix, Arizona
  • Interests:Professional musician, web designer, sound engineer, studio owner, licensed pyrotechnician.
    I am also an avid golfer, drinker and smoker.

Posted 19 October 2004 - 07:38 PM

When I get home from the gig tonight, I will run a sample from each of the newer cd's through Wavelab and post the 'wave form's'. This will allow everyone to see the differences in mastering on the recordings. The results should be very interesting.

#11 CygnusX-1Bk2

CygnusX-1Bk2

    Certified Verbal Ass Kicker

  • Moderator
  • 3774 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Concord, CA
  • Interests:Sound Design & Effects for games and picture (my main gig). Music (sometimes more than a hobby, it's paid the bills at times).
    Sound recording, which is also my job.
    Baseball.

Posted 19 October 2004 - 07:39 PM

Rip Rowan takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Man this article gets around.
Still waiting for the re-master for VT.

#12 Pags

Pags

    Surge of Adrenaline

  • Moderator
  • 19169 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:fault line between then and now
  • Interests:Drumming, Firefighting. Love workin' on projects around my house and spending time with my wife and kids. Rush goes with anything.

Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:02 PM

I can't reply to anyone's specific quote because they all so good -- just like this article.  Yes, I too believe Counterparts to be the best sounding Rush recording - if not second to Moving Pictures.  After reading this, and getting some education, my opinion may just shift to CP and be left at that.

It is a shame that VT suffered the way it did in what I hope to be its mastering.  Such amazing material and it all sounds overstuffed.  I can now say I love this CD, but it took me almost a year to be able to listen to it.  There was no separation from one instrument to the next and I could not grasp what was happening in the songs.  No highs, no lows.  So much emotion lost in the stuffed sound.  I just let it sit on the shelf.

But as a huge fan, I kept giving it a try.  Little by little the songs started making sense, and the emotion found its way through.  I think this quality of recording from any other band would have left the material completely useless.
Now I'm addicted to the music on this CD, and I've learned to hear passed the low quality sound.  I had no idea this was such an epidemic in the music industry.

I have to say thanks to Launch to sharing such an awesome article.  And thanks to everyone else for adding some butt kicking personal insight.  Maybe this it is an old topic, but I'm new here.  smile.gif


#13 GhostGirl

GhostGirl

    Sweetheart of Dixie

  • Admin
  • 21936 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Alabama...DON'T JUDGE
  • Interests:It was what I was born for —
    to look, to listen,

    to lose myself
    inside this soft world —
    to instruct myself
    over and over

Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:13 PM

I know what everyone's saying about VT...the loudness, etc.  BUT, I count it among my absolute favorite albums because it was the first album that I loved as a "stand-alone" Rush fan...  Meaning, I wasn't just listening because my spousal unit was playing it.  I read Ghost Rider, fell in love with Mr. Peart, and then...BAM...then there was VT, and all the pieces fell into place.

The rest, as they say....is history.  biggrin.gif

#14 Pags

Pags

    Surge of Adrenaline

  • Moderator
  • 19169 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:fault line between then and now
  • Interests:Drumming, Firefighting. Love workin' on projects around my house and spending time with my wife and kids. Rush goes with anything.

Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:22 PM

QUOTE (GhostGirl @ Oct 19 2004, 08:13 PM)
I know what everyone's saying about VT...the loudness, etc.  BUT, I count it among my absolute favorite albums because it was the first album that I loved as a "stand-alone" Rush fan...  Meaning, I wasn't just listening because my spousal unit was playing it.  I read Ghost Rider, fell in love with Mr. Peart, and then...BAM...then there was VT, and all the pieces fell into place.

The rest, as they say....is history.  biggrin.gif

I'm with you GG.  I count is as one of their best, all time.  It took me a while, but I came around.  biggrin.gif

#15 madra sneachta

madra sneachta

    Dirk Gently

  • Members *
  • 7372 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Donegal, Ireland

Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:31 PM

I found when I first listened to VT that it took about five listens to distinguish between the songs at all. I think another problem is that there's too much in there. Too many overdubs creates a sonic mess, and the LOUDNESS exacerbates that.

I find VT the hardest Rush album to listen to.

#16 Megadon

Megadon

    Long Awaited Froind

  • Members
  • 44 posts
  • Location:Toronto
  • Interests:Music production, film, Japanese and Chinese culture.

Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:40 PM

I loved VT. I found it a lot more interesting to listen to than Test For Echo. The production was very raw, but that helped give it more of an "in your face" attitude. Normally I prefer when each instrument is easily distinguished but VT worked for me. It was one great big powerful wall of sound.

#17 My_Shrimp_Cot

My_Shrimp_Cot

    The Beaker

  • Members *
  • 1572 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hartford, Connecticut

Posted 19 October 2004 - 09:48 PM

Hi all...I'm new here....great forum...thanks to those who put in the hard work. biggrin.gif

VT is my current favorite for content....but I agree it is a tough listen.

I wonder:

If anything would be lost by backing off the mix (energy etc)

If the recording sounds that way on purpose (from the guys I mean)

If anyone has heard any rumors on the time frame for a VT remaster (weeks, months, years??)





#18 RushRevisited

RushRevisited

    The Hailing Administrator

  • Admin
  • 21838 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio
  • Interests:My Family, Music, Golf, Astronomy

Posted 19 October 2004 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Oct 19 2004, 10:48 PM)
Hi all...I'm new here....great forum...thanks to those who put in the hard work. biggrin.gif

VT is my current favorite for content....but I agree it is a tough listen.

I wonder:

If anything would be lost by backing off the mix (energy etc)

If the recording sounds that way on purpose (from the guys I mean)

If anyone has heard any rumors on the time frame for a VT remaster (weeks, months, years??)

Welcome aboard!  trink38.gif  

#19 GhostGirl

GhostGirl

    Sweetheart of Dixie

  • Admin
  • 21936 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Alabama...DON'T JUDGE
  • Interests:It was what I was born for —
    to look, to listen,

    to lose myself
    inside this soft world —
    to instruct myself
    over and over

Posted 19 October 2004 - 10:20 PM

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Oct 19 2004, 09:48 PM)
Hi all...I'm new here....great forum...thanks to those who put in the hard work. biggrin.gif

Great to have you!  Great name, Shrimp Cot!  One of my favorite Rush moments ever.

common001.gif  common001.gif  common001.gif  

#20 Moonraker

Moonraker

    O_o

  • Members *
  • 6362 posts

Posted 20 October 2004 - 12:19 AM

I think I have read this before somewhere (remember seeing those graphs of the P/G, PW, RTB, CP, and VT albums) but this is still a very good and important read.  I remember that a few months after the VT album came out, there were a few people who had remastered it and wrote an FAQ for how to remaster the songs in VT yourself.  I wonder if anyone knows where those pages are.....

(waits)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users